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marble falls

(57,014 posts)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:31 PM Apr 2015

Bill signed in Kansas will allow concealed carry with no permit!!!

A bill signed Thursday by Gov. Sam Brownback will allow residents in Kansas to carry concealed firearms without a permit or training.

Kansans aged 21 or older will be permitted to carry concealed guns starting July 1 when the law takes effect, even if they’re not trained or don’t have a permit, the Kansas City Star reports. That will make the state one of six to allow “constitutional carry.”

Anyone who would like to carry a concealed gun in any of the three dozen states that accept Kansas permits must go through training, a requirement that Brownback emphasized. But even with regard to Kansans, who won’t be required to go through training, he acknowledged that his youngest son had “got a lot out of” a hunter safety course recently and urged others “to take advantage of that.”

“We’re saying that if you want to do that in this state, then you don’t have to get the permission slip from the government,” Brownback said. “It is a constitutional right, and we’re removing a barrier to that right.”

The Kansas State Rifle Association was supportive of the bill. A statement on its website reads: “the right to keep and bear arms is a natural, unalienable right protected by the Second Amendment and citizens should not have to go through burdensome and expensive hoops to exercise that right.”

http://time.com/3770182/kansas-bill-constitutional-carry-concealed-guns/

[Kansas City Star]


What possibly could go wrong?????

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bill signed in Kansas will allow concealed carry with no permit!!! (Original Post) marble falls Apr 2015 OP
don't call them gun h***ers, whatever you do Skittles Apr 2015 #1
Oy vey! marym625 Apr 2015 #2
Another Vermont in the making seveneyes Apr 2015 #3
I have no intention of stepping foot into Kansas. Dawson Leery Apr 2015 #4
What could possibly go wrong? 99Forever Apr 2015 #5
Well OK .... as in the Corral. rickford66 Apr 2015 #6
This State is fucking broke up, education underfunded, but those asswipes have time for that! Nt Logical Apr 2015 #7
Does it also allow duels at high noon? Takket Apr 2015 #8
Gunfights-- this is Kansas, after all Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #10
OMG! Blood in the streetz! linuxman Apr 2015 #9
Why don't you answer your own question??? former9thward Apr 2015 #11
I've lived in AZ and my parents have been there since 1970. Open carry (which doesn't bother me.... marble falls Apr 2015 #12
Gun statistics are used by both sides. former9thward Apr 2015 #14
Or this: marble falls Apr 2015 #13

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
4. I have no intention of stepping foot into Kansas.
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:38 PM
Apr 2015

This is beyond the levels of absurdness the American right has brought to far.

If I had to chose between Cameron and Merkel or the American GOP, I would certainly go with the first option.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
10. Gunfights-- this is Kansas, after all
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 01:57 AM
Apr 2015

Duels are for fops-- gunfights in the dusty streets of Dodge are for "real men"

 

linuxman

(2,337 posts)
9. OMG! Blood in the streetz!
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 01:27 AM
Apr 2015

Surely we'll see shootouts from dawn til dusk, complete with an Everest-style spike in death tolls.

It's going to turn this whole damn country into one big Vermont, I tell you what.



Clutch those pearls a little softer. It'll mar the finish.



former9thward

(31,949 posts)
11. Why don't you answer your own question???
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 02:04 AM
Apr 2015

What could go wrong? I live in AZ and we have had this law for years. Guess what? Nothing has gone wrong. Other states have had this law for years. What has gone wrong? Silence....

marble falls

(57,014 posts)
12. I've lived in AZ and my parents have been there since 1970. Open carry (which doesn't bother me....
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:03 AM
Apr 2015

too much) is one thing, but concealed carry with no permit has been allowed since 2010. And the police don't care for it much. Arizona has problems with gun violence. And Kansas will have more problem with the addition of permitless concealed carry:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/fact-check/2014/05/28/arizona-gallego-gun-violence/9679961/
<snip>

In that case, Fact Check used data from the Kaiser Family Foundation, a Washington, D.C.-based non-profit that focuses on national health issues. Kaiser has taken the CDC statistics and compiled state-by-state per capita reports. According to Kaiser, the Arizona gun-death rate per 100,000 individuals was 14.6 in 2010, making the state the eighth-worst in the country. The national average was 10.1 for the same time period.

But if Gallego is talking about gun homicides and not overall gun deaths, then the Center for Arizona Progress data would be more accurate, and Arizona would rank 11th nationally, using the 2010 figures.

In Gallego's third claim, that Phoenix's "level of homicides is equivalent to Mexico's," it's unclear whether he is referring to all homicides or only gun-related murders. But since the overall focus of his statement is gun-related deaths, we will assume he's comparing gun homicides in Phoenix and Mexico.

It's difficult to make such comparisons because different international agencies gather and report crime data in different ways.

Barr said Gallego's source was a 2013 article in the Atlantic magazine, which used CDC data combined with statistics from the United Nations and other sources, to produce a map comparing the rate of gun murders in U.S. cities to those of other countries.

The Atlantic report pegged Phoenix's per capita gun-homicide rate at 10.6 per 100,000 people, and Mexico's only slightly lower, at 10.0 per 100,000. It's not clear what time frame the statistics cover.

In making that comparison, it's important to note that not all homicides are gun deaths. A 2013 report issued by Mexico's National Statistics and Geography Institute found the country's overall homicide rate was 22 per 100,000 people in 2012. That far exceeds Phoenix's overall homicide rate, which, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, was 8.3 per 100,000 during the same calendar year.

BOTTOM LINE:

Gallego is accurate when he says someone is killed by a gun almost every day in Arizona. Assuming his statement that "our state ranks as the 11th-worst for gun deaths" refers to gun homicides, then he is also accurate in his second claim. Fact Check is also assuming Gallego is referring to gun-related homicides when he makes the comparisons about Phoenix and Mexico. In that case, he's accurate on the third point, even though Mexico's overall homicide rate is much higher than Phoenix's.

former9thward

(31,949 posts)
14. Gun statistics are used by both sides.
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 11:56 AM
Apr 2015

Are they are useless. Chicago has a huge gun violence problem, with one of the highest murder rates, and its gun laws are the most strict in the nation. Gun violence statistics ignore differences in demographics and culture and income levels when they compare one place to another.

marble falls

(57,014 posts)
13. Or this:
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:09 AM
Apr 2015
http://archive.azcentral.com/community/pinal/20110127arizona-gun-death-rate-nations-worst-sev.html

Arizona's gun-death rate among the worst in U.S.

by Ronald J. Hansen - Jan. 27, 2011 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

From murders to suicides, Arizona is consistently among the most deadly states in the nation for gun violence, federal records show.

Over a nine-year span, the state's rate of gun deaths of all types ranked seventh in the United States and sixth for gun-involved slayings, according to an Arizona Republic analysis of death reports compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The rankings are based on data from 1999 to 2007, the most recent statistics available from the CDC.

Overall, violent-crime rates in Arizona are not far from rates for the U.S. as a whole, but the rate of deaths specifically tied to guns surprises national experts.

Crime-victimization patterns that measure factors such as age and racial demographics suggest that Arizona would figure to be among the states with a lower risk for violent crime.

"That's much higher than I would expect the state to be," said Franklin Zimring, a law professor at the University of California-Berkeley who studies demographic factors in crime. "The demographic-risk profile should keep Arizona lower. It's higher than expected. Now, the question is: Why?"

Gun violence is facing renewed scrutiny after the Jan. 8 massacre near Tucson that killed six and wounded 13, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., a gun-rights advocate herself.

Arizona, as the cultural symbol of the Old West with a fierce independent streak and strong support for gun rights, is the focus of that interest.

"You've got a lot of guns," Zimring said. "To some extent, the laws are maybe trying to encourage that; and if so, you're paying a price for it. But there are a lot of other factors."

As of October, Phoenix and Tucson trailed only Houston for the number of federal licenses allowing the sale, resale, manufacturing or importation of firearms, according to data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. As a state, Arizona ranked 16th in licensed gun dealers. Texas was first.

Tucson ranked first among the nation's cities for licenses specifically involving the manufacturing of firearms, and Phoenix and Mesa were in the top four.
Ariz. gun murders

Arizona reported more than 3,000 murders with guns over a nine-year span (1999-2007), according to CDC data. That amounts to six gun murders per 100,000 residents. The national rate was about four.

Arizona's total gun-death rate - a figure that includes murders, suicides, accidents, police shootings and other unclassified killings - was nearly 16 per 100,000. The national rate was about 10.

"Places that have more guns have more gun violence, and Arizona is very high on that," said Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University whose work on the defensive use of firearms has made him one of the leading scholars on gun rights. His book, "Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America," raised questions about the value of gun-control laws.

"You can take very seriously the CDC data," he said, "as long as you keep in mind that there isn't any relationship between gun-ownership rates and the total suicide rate or homicide rate."

Crime data collected by the FBI show Arizona is not especially violent. From 2005 to 2009, the state's murder rate was higher than the national average, but its overall violent-crime rate fell below the national average in 2008 and 2009. That was largely because of steep drops in aggravated assaults, which fell below the national rate and far outnumber slayings.

Zimring and Kleck caution against presumptions that state gun laws explain gun-death numbers, saying there are too many other factors involved.

The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence, which advocates for stricter gun control, rates states based on their gun laws, with low scores signaling liberal gun laws and high scores conservative ones. Arizona receives two of 100 possible points.

Neighboring states Nevada and New Mexico, also considered to have more liberal gun laws, fared poorly in the CDC data. But states such as Texas, with relatively loose gun laws, and California, with its strict gun laws, finished near the national average for overall gun deaths.

Six of the states that Brady rates as having weak gun-control laws are in the top 10 for highest overall gun-death rates, excluding Washington, D.C., which easily has the worst violence rate but is not a state. At the same time, six of the states it rates as having strong gun-control laws were in the top 10 for lowest un-death rates.

But only two of the states that Brady rates as having relatively weak gun-control laws are in the top 10 for homicides with guns. Meanwhile, two of its states with relatively strong laws also appear in the top 10.
A look at suicides

If Arizona is relatively high in gun deaths, it is likely because the state is one of the leading states in the nation for gun ownership, Kleck said.

One of the best indicators of gun ownership is the level of gun-involved suicide rates, he said. The CDC numbers show Arizona ranked ninth in suicides with guns.

The suicide numbers differ sharply from Massachusetts', a state about as populous as Arizona but generally regarded as less gun-friendly.

In the last two years of data (2006-07), when the states were closest in population, Arizona reported 880 suicides not involving guns; Massachusetts reported 751. At the same time, Massachusetts reported 215 suicides by guns while Arizona reported 1,115.

Even the police in Arizona kill more often than in other states, the data shows. Arizona ranked sixth in legal-intervention deaths involving firearms, although such incidents are rare.

Arizona's rate was double the nation's in that category. Arizona authorities used guns to kill 113 people over nine years.

Staff writers Ryan Konig and Daniel Gonz�lez contributed to this article.
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