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Sat Apr 11, 2015, 01:39 AM

To the Right: STOP equating the JFK tax cuts to Reagan's

That is all!

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Reply To the Right: STOP equating the JFK tax cuts to Reagan's (Original post)
Dpm12 Apr 2015 OP
immoderate Apr 2015 #1
Dpm12 Apr 2015 #2
immoderate Apr 2015 #6
AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #3
BainsBane Apr 2015 #5
AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #8
BainsBane Apr 2015 #13
AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #16
Dpm12 Apr 2015 #9
BainsBane Apr 2015 #10
AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #12
BainsBane Apr 2015 #17
AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #18
Dpm12 Apr 2015 #20
AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #24
Dpm12 Apr 2015 #25
Dpm12 Apr 2015 #14
BainsBane Apr 2015 #19
Dpm12 Apr 2015 #22
AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #11
BainsBane Apr 2015 #4
Dpm12 Apr 2015 #7
BainsBane Apr 2015 #21
Dpm12 Apr 2015 #23
Dpm12 Apr 2015 #15

Response to Dpm12 (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 01:58 AM

1. Are you crazy??

 

--imm

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Response to immoderate (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:05 AM

2. No, I just hate when conservatives do that.

JFK's tax cuts were demand-side, not supply-side.

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Response to Dpm12 (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:19 AM

6. I am just afraid you might expect some compliance.

 

Do you think they will ever understand that Reagan shifted the tax burden from the rich to the middle class? (No they won't.)

--imm

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Response to Dpm12 (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:07 AM

3. The whole, "Kennedy did it first" meme

 

...is based on what Kennedy said in his debate with Nixon. What they conveniently leave out is what he said immediately afterwards, that the rich had so many loopholes they were not paying anything even at the 90% rate. So he said lowering the rate a bit and CLOSING THE LOOPHOLES would increase revenues.

So you are absolutely correct.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:23 AM

8. You 100% missed my point entirely...

 



Oh, wait....the agenda thingy, I get it...

Anyhow, see for yourself. Ctrl + F is your friend
http://www.debates.org/index.php?page=october-13-1960-debate-transcript

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:31 AM

13. The agenda being the truth

Which once again we see means nothing. JFK massively reduced taxes on the wealthy, not just marginal rates but EFFECTIVE rates. Denying it doesn't change history. It simply reflects on who you are.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:34 AM

16. I stated what he said during the debate

 

Do you have a 'Debate statement chart' too? Your chart is meaningless as to what was said during the debate.

But you already know that.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:23 AM

9. I don't give a shit what that chart says...

...it's wrong!

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Response to Dpm12 (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:27 AM

10. LOL

The source is Nobel Prize winning economist and a Democrat. The problem with erecting human beings as heroes is they don't live up to expectations. People from a certain generation have made JFK a God. He wasn't. He was a centrist Democrat and Cold Warrior from a very rich family. People seem to want to make political figures out to be all good or all evil, when in reality they are neither.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:29 AM

12. So you believe he was a 'Third Way®' person?

 

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:35 AM

17. There was no Third Way then

but he certainly wasn't a leftist for the time. People need to get over this hero worship. You do yourself no favors by clinging to fantasy versions of the past. History and politics aren't comprised of heroes and villains. The truth is far messier. As long as people insist on seeing the world in black and white, they understand nothing.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:41 AM

18. I stated what Kennedy said during the debate w/Nixon

 

That any decrease in taxes on the top rate would be made up by closing loopholes. So you counter it with a chart? Read the debate text which I have linked to multiple times here.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:42 AM

20. N/T

[youtube]http://m.[/youtube]

And by the way, JFK's certainly more progressive than Obama

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Response to Dpm12 (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:53 AM

24. Thanks for proving EXACTLY what I said

 

Kudos, sir!

Bookmarked for future reference.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 03:00 AM

25. You're welcome!

And she thinks I'm trying to make him out to be some flawless Superman, but I'm not, I'm just stating facts. No he wasn't perfect, but neither were Washington, Lincoln, FDR, and Teddy, doesn't change the fact that they all accomplished more good than bad. Lincoln, FDR, JFK, Washington, and Teddy I consider to be the top five greatest presidents.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:31 AM

14. I know he was a political centrist, that's not my point...

...yes, he cut taxes on the rich, but from 91% to 70%. Do you think ANY Repub today would want to go back to rich people paying 70% in taxes. I don't think so. Kennedy's tax cut were MARGINAL. He was a demand-side tax cutter, not supply-side. His tax cuts benefitted the middle class and poor more than the wealthy.

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Response to Dpm12 (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:42 AM

19. They weren't just marginal

They were also effective. And of course no Republican would want to go back to 70 percent taxes. But denying history doesn't change it. It only reflects on your understanding of it.

What's the big deal anyway? Why do people need to make JFK into a saint? He was a politician. Yes, it's very sad he was killed, but people seriously get carried away with their hero worship of him. I'm guessing cause you folks were at a certain age and it effected you greatly, and when you saw a lot of shit unfold afterward you thought, the world would be better if he had lived. Who knows. Maybe in terms of Vietnam, but LBJ was more progressive domestically. Regardless, there are no what ifs in history. He was killed. The country went on the path it did. Making him into some fantasy version of the perfect president doesn't change any of that.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:46 AM

22. WHAT THE HELL!?

He was FAR from perfect (Bay of Pigs, anyone?), I'm just stating that he closed the loopholes, so rich people weren't exactly given a break in paying taxes. Yes he was a moderate, but who gives a fuck, he did a good job. Clinton did a great job, and he was a moderate.

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Response to Dpm12 (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:28 AM

11. The chart wasn't meant for anything related to the OP

 

Trust me on that one...

She posted the 'chart' to prove Kennedy didn't say he would make up revenue closing loopholes while debating Nixon....absolute nonsense lol

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Response to Dpm12 (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:17 AM

4. Both massively cut taxes on the rich

Here's a chart that shows historic tax rates. Source is Krugman, NYTimes.



http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/12/the-long-run-history-of-taxes-on-the-rich/?_r=0

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Response to Dpm12 (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:21 AM

7. I don't trust the NY Times

JFK cut the rich tax from 91% to 70%, he cut them on the middle class and the poor by larger margins. He was a demand-side tax cutter, not a supply-side tax cutter. Read this: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/01/26/the-myth-of-jfk-as-supply-side-tax-cutter

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Response to Dpm12 (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:43 AM

21. Any reputable US history book will show the same thing

You can find many similar charts elsewhere. Whatever. You don't want to know, so that's your problem.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #21)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:52 AM

23. What are you going to say now?

Are you gonna say that Abe Lincoln didn't actually win the Civil War? AgingAmerican and I are stating facts, and have backed up these facts with evidence. You have one out-of-context chart from the New York Times, and nothing else.

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Response to Dpm12 (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:33 AM

15. Let Thom Hartman explain

[youtube]http://m.[/youtube]

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