HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » here is a question regard...

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:47 AM

 

here is a question regarding my "white privilege",

White shaming seems to be the hot topic recently, so I ask this.


Yes I am white, ...no I did ask for, nor push someone out of the way to jump in the "white line". Even though I've made my life what I wanted, worked for what I have, and enjoy my life.Why am I supposed to feel guilty ?

What exactly am I supposed to do to pay the penance I apparently need to pay, for being born and living my life. I'm not racist, I don't hold anything against anybody,....... unless they are an asshole. There are no racial guidelines, polls nor % links to support what percentage of the populations races take up the largest % of "ass holiness", so .........

So this morning as I get ready to start my week-end, what exactly is my debt that I am supposed to pay today, for the crime of being white.

I was created by and raised by my mom and dad, they loved me, they encouraged me and helped me become the man I am. It's my parents fault I'm white............ I'm an innocent victim. White shaming me over something that I had no control over is weak sauce. What exactly am I supposed to do about it now ? I'm curious what the other end of the "white privilege" shame-fest really is ?

89 replies, 14542 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 89 replies Author Time Post
Reply here is a question regarding my "white privilege", (Original post)
NM_Birder Apr 2015 OP
ret5hd Apr 2015 #1
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #3
ret5hd Apr 2015 #21
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #70
ret5hd Apr 2015 #71
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #73
brush Apr 2015 #76
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #77
brush Apr 2015 #84
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #85
brush Apr 2015 #86
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #87
brush Apr 2015 #89
boston bean Apr 2015 #2
Starry Messenger Apr 2015 #4
cleanhippie Apr 2015 #43
Cooley Hurd Apr 2015 #5
surrealAmerican Apr 2015 #6
merrily Apr 2015 #7
1000words Apr 2015 #64
merrily Apr 2015 #69
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #74
merrily Apr 2015 #75
gollygee Apr 2015 #8
qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #61
cyberswede Apr 2015 #9
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #12
cyberswede Apr 2015 #13
boston bean Apr 2015 #14
ScreamingMeemie Apr 2015 #59
Cooley Hurd Apr 2015 #22
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #41
NutmegYankee Apr 2015 #10
treestar Apr 2015 #28
NutmegYankee Apr 2015 #45
treestar Apr 2015 #47
DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #11
PassingFair Apr 2015 #15
thucythucy Apr 2015 #16
dumbcat Apr 2015 #17
handmade34 Apr 2015 #18
PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #19
MineralMan Apr 2015 #20
WhiteTara Apr 2015 #23
Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #26
Dreamer Tatum Apr 2015 #24
Nye Bevan Apr 2015 #53
randome Apr 2015 #25
Iggo Apr 2015 #27
Sheldon Cooper Apr 2015 #29
NM_Birder Apr 2015 #42
AngryAmish Apr 2015 #30
randr Apr 2015 #31
Cal Carpenter Apr 2015 #32
mercuryblues Apr 2015 #33
Marrah_G Apr 2015 #36
Buzz Clik Apr 2015 #50
Cirque du So-What Apr 2015 #34
Marrah_G Apr 2015 #35
Smarmie Doofus Apr 2015 #37
newblewtoo Apr 2015 #38
LeftyMom Apr 2015 #39
Cleita Apr 2015 #40
Orsino Apr 2015 #44
Buzz Clik Apr 2015 #49
MH1 Apr 2015 #46
Buzz Clik Apr 2015 #48
Nye Bevan Apr 2015 #51
arcane1 Apr 2015 #52
alcibiades_mystery Apr 2015 #54
Rex Apr 2015 #66
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #55
brush Apr 2015 #56
Half-Century Man Apr 2015 #57
H2O Man Apr 2015 #58
Inkfreak Apr 2015 #60
DustyJoe Apr 2015 #62
upaloopa Apr 2015 #63
Rex Apr 2015 #65
GeorgeGist Apr 2015 #67
fishwax Apr 2015 #68
ronnie624 Apr 2015 #72
NCTraveler Apr 2015 #78
KamaAina Apr 2015 #79
romanic Apr 2015 #80
TexasMommaWithAHat Apr 2015 #81
LanternWaste Apr 2015 #82
alarimer Apr 2015 #83
ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #88

Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:49 AM

1. It's terrible to see such a delicate thing in such pain...

I hope you get feeling better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ret5hd (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:52 AM

3. swing and a miss, but thats what I thought.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:20 AM

21. "...what exactly is my debt that I am supposed to pay today..."

$20.00

Pay up and you are hereby granted the right to go about your life as you did before you ever heard the term.

Can you send it to my PayPal account?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ret5hd (Reply #21)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 08:54 AM

70. You advocate a binding agreement,

 

Send me a contract for my review, I will forward the specified funds after I've had my lawyers substantiate that you have the authority, to offer the amnesty that you describe.

Although, I have to disclose,............ I believe your proposal to be disingenuous, and likely malicious and sarcastic. It does however show a level of "clever" rarely seen in these, "online" modern times.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Reply #70)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 10:10 AM

71. I've already delivered on my end.

You owe me $20.00

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ret5hd (Reply #71)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 10:32 AM

73. You have most certainly not.

 


I need your paypal account for starters, I need to verify that indeed you can offer the immunity you claim, and I'll need to know that there are no hidden clauses in the fine contractual print that will somehow make future claims of inequality my responsibility.

For the time being, ..........I will plan to invest your 20.00 payment, in the self gratifying purchase of a few additional cold beers and nachos at the Isotopes game tonight.

Come on out and support the Topes !............. Or at least have a good day.

P.S, I miss our team being the "Albuquerque Dukes", but LaSorda is a douche, so I'm a little glad we aren't Dodger farm team anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Reply #73)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 11:34 AM

76. I replied to this post before but here you are again with no response. Here's my same answer.

If you are really sincere in this just actively support the reparations movement to repay the centuries of government-sanctioned, dawn-to-dusk, unpaid labor by enslaved people that helped to build this country's wealth.

It's a dept owed and should be rectified — any business or any country can get rich if they don't have to pay labor costs, which are usually 50% of overhead. I repeat, it's a debt owed and it's a tangible thing you can do about it — not just philosophical words to "do onto others and not discriminate against anyone and blah blah blah".

And BTW, we're not talking about checks being cut to individuals but for scholarship funds, small business grants, computer literacy classes for older folks — those kinds of positive things that will help the African American community which didn't not benefit from centuries of wages that may have enabled ancestors to pass some down in the form on an inheritance, whether it be just a few hundred dollars to newlyweds to establish a household or maybe even a house, or valuable possesions.

This, IMO, goes a long way towards explaining the household wealth gap between black and white households.

And remember, if we just cut the Defense Department budget by one percent what I described can get done and it won't becoming out of anyone's pocket.

You can help by passing on this idea of "centuries of unpaid labor". Most people can get their head around that because everyone understands working hard and not getting paid.

Now, I repeat, if you are really sincere, you have work to do. Google is your friend in finding how to help.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #76)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 12:37 PM

77. aaaaaand cut.

 

Now, take a deep breath, this is going to sting, the truth sometimes does............... I'm not racist.....and ......I do not "owe" anything for other peoples racism, I am not responsible for black slavery of the past, I am not responsible for the slavery that exists throughout the world today, I am not responsible for the American Indian being placed on reservations, nor am I to be held responsible for the murder of millions of jews during WW2. , ...... oh and as a fetus, nobody asked me, so it was not my call to allow only a white man to walk on the moon the year I was born.

I am responsible for my actions, ..................not those of the dead from the past.

I am however,.....just a guy,..... living his life without being racist, just like the vast majority of people. I enjoy my life and I don't feel guilty in the slightest for enjoying my life. I worked hard to have what I have, and somewhere I missed out on that "all white people advance to GO" ....line... for the best. Working for what I have has made me appreciate it, and having lived thru the experience of striving for what I have, makes your notion that I got it because I'm white seem spiteful and I'm sorry a little like a joke. I'm waiting for the aaahhhhh gotcha !

As a white guy, am I also personally responsible for the drug problems across the board in America, the terrible Mexican economy, prison over crowding, the homeless problem, prostitution? how about the elimination of Levi's 501's.....is that my fault too ?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Reply #77)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 02:51 PM

84. Is there a comprehension problem?

Nowhere in my post did I say you were responsible, no one called you a racist, no one said you were personally responsible and no one is asking for anything out of your or anyone else's pocket.

Slavery and hundreds of years of unpaid labor was government sanctioned so it should be rectified by government, not you or any other individual.

You asked what you could do about white privilege and I gave you any avenue to pursue that goal but judging from your answer and repeated posting of this thread I would say you seem to be more interested in getting responses and are not sincere about trying to remedy white privilege.

The word "grandstanding" comes to mind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #84)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 06:04 PM

85. with regards to the term

 


"white privilege" ......... I completely agree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Reply #85)

Tue Apr 14, 2015, 12:14 AM

86. You agree that you are not interested in remedying white privilege?

Is that what your response meant? Please be clear.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #86)

Tue Apr 14, 2015, 07:54 AM

87. I do not agree that because I'm white, I am somehow "privileged"

 

"white privilege" is a term that has sprung to life in the ever increasing desire of some to wedge racist tension as much as possible. I do not think that because I was born white, I owe any social debt of any kind to anyone.

The notion that all black people are disadvantaged, and all white people are advantaged is the very essence of a racist formula.

Because racism does exist,.... does not automatically mean every white person has benefited, nor is every black person oppressed by it.

There is no "remedy" required, and like other posters have demanded,... I do not owe payment of any kind, and there certainly is no truth that because I'm white I was pushed to the front of the line.

That seems pretty clear.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Reply #87)

Tue Apr 14, 2015, 01:58 PM

89. Nice to know where you're coming from.

Last edited Tue Apr 14, 2015, 02:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Pls stay on this site. It has a way of broadening views.

And here's a link of a video that you might find enlightening. It was posted on DU a few days ago but I didn't save it, but it turned up on Huff Po today:

Pls check it out and let me know what you think.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/13/redneck-dixon-white_n_7059414.html?cps=gravity_2246_-7236892418048780107

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:50 AM

2. Recognize you have it and work to help others through words and actions

to level the playing field.

To not recognize you have it, is like not acknowledging that others experience something different and prejudiced.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:52 AM

4. Well, for one, not start stupid threads about "white shaming"

That would be a start.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:14 AM

43. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:53 AM

5. To me, it's an awareness of the reality, not a shaming...

 

That you take it as a "shaming" is rather short-sighted (and, IMO, self-centered).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:54 AM

6. It's not about guilt.

Your "privilege" is not having been discriminated against due to your race. What you should want is for everybody else to have the chances you did. That means working for a more equitable society. That's it. Nobody's blaming and shaming you personally.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:56 AM

7. I don't want to be heating oil for nothing.

Will this thread sink before I can make popcorn?

Oh, what the heck. It won't go to waste. It's Saturday. There's bound to be another thread I can pass around popcorn on.


brb

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #7)


Response to 1000words (Reply #64)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 04:32 AM

69. UM, heating oil in a big pot is the way popcorn was always made by poor people.

It's limousine liberals who can afford microwaves and paying through the nose for little microwave popcorn packets.

Yes, I know you were kidding, but I'm telling you true. (When not making popcorn for DU, I use an air popper--no oil at all. I don't know what socioeconomic class that puts me in. )





This is just a story about popcorn that is funny to me, because it is so my "true grit" father.

One day father was making popcorn in a big ole pot on the top of his gas stove for a few kids. He wanted to grab the pot to shake it back and forth--I guess so that the bottom kernels wouldn't burn? He grabbed a kitchen towel, putting one end of it on one pot handle and the other end of the towel on the opposite pot handle and started shaking the pot. Before too long, the part of the towel hanging down in the middle caught fire from the gas flame. My father never skipped a beat or made a sound. He just kept that pot moving back and forth over the flame until he felt the popcorn was done.

Then, and only then, did he move the pot to a cool burner, throw what was left of the towel into the sink and turn on both hot and cold taps to put out the flames. He did all of that so fast, it looked almost like all one movement.

The kids could not believe their eyes had been screaming the whole time. After the fire was out, though, they started laughing. To this day, you can make them laugh by reminding them about my father calmly holding the pot of popcorn with the flaming towel until the popcorn was perfectly done. In hindsight, I wish I'd saved that last black bit of towel.

By virtue of sheer accident, the towel was a goner, no matter what. However, my father was not about to throw good money after bad by wasting a whole pot of popcorn just because his hands might get burned.

Though I don't share a lot of personal info on the board, I will say this: No one has to school me too, too much about how poor people behave or about how people who more are comfortably off behave.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #69)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 11:04 AM

74. "It's limousine Liberals, that can afford microwaves"

 

I loudly snorted at that one, that's pure gold.

"It's public access television,...they don't have remotes" ............. if you know the movie quote we have a similar sense of humor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Reply #74)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 11:07 AM

75. It's a remote possibility.

Last edited Mon Apr 13, 2015, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:59 AM

8. ....

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/30/why_acknowledging_white_privilege_is_not_surrendering_to_white_guilt/

Recognizing and addressing the reality of white privilege is not the same thing as embracing or indulging white guilt. Quite the opposite: It’s the pathway to liberation from white guilt. That’s a term often flung at white liberals by race-obsessed conservatives, but I suspect they are projecting their own emotional turmoil onto others. For one thing, it’s quite different to say that white people have inherited a historical responsibility than to claim that they must personally atone for the crimes of long-dead slaveholders and Southern sheriffs, or that they should apologize for the accident of their birth. No doubt the patronizing and ineffectual version of liberal white guilt mocked by right-wingers has existed in someone, somewhere. But I have hardly ever encountered it.

Those worst afflicted with white guilt – maybe “white torment” is more accurate — are precisely the people most enraged by the discussion of white privilege. That covers a wide swath of white conservatives, from Bill O’Reilly and Rush Limbaugh rightward into the scary fringes of the Internet. Sometimes their racial obsession is obvious and sometimes it’s more coded, but you don’t have to press very hard to get to the conspiratorial and apocalyptic racial theories, the lurid tales of black criminality, sexuality and dysfunction.

They’re like the preacher who insists on knowing all the details of the filth and perversity he inveighs against on Sunday morning. Their focus on African-Americans as a criminal-minded and primitive collective Id is racist and hypocritical, to be sure, not to mention strikingly odd in an era when violent crime in America has fallen to historic lows. But it’s also conflicted and full of longing. They yearn to be free of white privilege and perhaps of whiteness itself, whose benefits were never as great as advertised and have long since been outweighed by its toxic side effects. Since they can’t make it go away by insisting that it does not exist, they dream of its destruction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gollygee (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 01:37 PM

61. Yearn to be free of white privilege? That's absurd.

Why would anyone want to give up privileges? I certainly don't. I take every plus I can in this world.

It is only after I have gotten mine that I am comfortable sharing. Few people are so selfless that they take care of strangers before they take care of themselves.

White privilege is not EVER going to go away. OK, maybe the Chinese will wipe it out. Goodness knows, there are some white people who are terrified of China.

I can't tell you how to feel about it, but please don't pretend that it doesn't exist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:59 AM

9. Who says you're supposed to feel guilty?

White privilege just *is*. It's nothing to feel guilty about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cyberswede (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:03 AM

12. I don't feel guilt about white "orivilege" either.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:06 AM

13. fixed

I hope you're actually reading and understanding the replies in this thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cyberswede (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:09 AM

14. Wasn't there a thread (within the last 6 months or so) very similar to this one...

And the poster that wrote it finally got the boot? I can't keep track of them all these days.

It just feels so familiar.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 01:29 PM

59. And they are posted, and the OP never returns to respond to anything...

I click on these threads to see what YOU guys have to say, and disregard whatever stupid stuff has been posted by the OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:20 AM

22. When you're losing an argument, attack the typos of others...

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #22)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:00 AM

41. THANK YOU! Christ it took long enough.....

 



you are the ONLY one who had the guts to admit that people who push the notion of "white privilege", believe it's an argument to be "won".....to put those that do not agree with the "white privilege" battle cry "in their place".




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:02 AM

10. It isn't about guilt and shame.

It's recognizing that society treats you differently and that you need to address that disparity for true fairness in society. I got into this discussion over dinner with some friends recently. One woman commented how blacks always seem to think they are persecuted, and I said because they are. And from that discussion, I explained white privilege, like the fact that I as a white male can walk into a store and people do not view me with suspicion or fear. It was overall very productive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:43 AM

28. how does that work in a practical matter?

when you get a problem identified you are expected to do something about it, or you expect that of yourself.

does it mean being careful when interviewing for jobs, that I consider the black person a little longer, because I might be thinking less of them without realizing it?

Wouldn't it mean sensitivity training for white cops? Or even black cops, as they exist, and may in fact think a black guy more likely to be making trouble too.

Being extra polite to black people, out of consideration I might be ignoring them where I wouldn't ignore white people?

The problem with "white privilege" is that it makes it sound permanent. And in control of the white people.

And in time of a black President is even less likely to be believable to average white people. I think it should be approached from a basis of black people deserving equality. President Obama deserved to be believed a citizen without having to come up with a birth certificate. If you didn't demands to see McCain's but you need to see Obama's, you're making a distinction. Whether you intended to or not. Or expecting much more of him than you would any other President, because he has to prove he's good enough whereas white men are just President, that's it. (Looking forward to what will happen to a female President in the media! You just know the Republicans are going to hint, hint, hint that she's too weak, etc.)

Make sure you are treating people equally and not falling unconsciously into racism (most white people today I think would be racist that way, not blatantly like a KKK member would be).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:58 AM

45. Making people aware is the first step.

The core of white privilege is hidden cultural bias and stereotypes. During my dinner conversation I explained that the inner city clustering of blacks was a result of decades of racist housing policies forcing them to live there. And because upward mobility almost doesn't exist anymore, once your down low on the economic chain, it's very hard to get out.

What I did was crush a few negative stereotypes and hopefully prevent that person from passing them on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #45)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:11 PM

47. It would work better IMO to do more as you did

explain what black people still go through. Say they shouldn't have to and deserve equality. Most white people will agree. Start out with "you are privileged" may be true but does cloud it all up with the white person defending themselves as having worked for what they have, etc. They are thinking immediately about themselves and seeing black people or their with supporters as accusing, instead of sympathizing with the black people and wanting better for them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:03 AM

11. As a member of a paradoxically privileged and sometimes maligned and persecuted minority...

As a member of a paradoxically privileged and sometimes maligned and persecuted minority all I can say is we always should be sensitive to the pain of others.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:12 AM

15. Just acknowledging it is 80% of what you need to do.

Empathy and action should follow.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:15 AM

16. Recognize that, because of the circumstances of your birth

you have not had to endure many of the experiences people of color have had and continue to endure because of white racism. And realize that characterizing attempts to deal with racism, especially in the context of white police and others gunning down African Americans with almost complete impunity as "the 'white privilege' shame fest" comes off as demeaning to the actual, lived experiences of the victims of police violence.

After reaching that recognition, do something to help change the continuing reality of racism in our culture.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:18 AM

17. You're supposed to have

feelings about it. It appears you have.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:18 AM

18. guilt is a wasted emotion...

acknowledge realities and do the best you can to make the world better for everyone...

so glad you acknowledge your white privilege, now do some action to help all those without it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:19 AM

19. oh, ffs.

Really?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:19 AM

20. It's not a matter of guilt, blame or shame.

It's just about recognizing that you have privilege that others do not, and that the privilege you have was not earned by merely gained but the fact of your birth.

It's just something to be aware of and to think about. Nobody's shaming you. Nobody's blaming you. People are just asking you to keep your in-born privilege in mind. You have no debt to pay; you have a responsibility to recognize the source of some of your good fortune.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:21 AM

23. You are "supposed" to show respect and compassion

for all other living beings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhiteTara (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:34 AM

26. In this case that is asking way too much.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:29 AM

24. Don't worry - white privilege threads aren't about you.

They're about the person decrying "white privilege," who, with almost perfect certainty, is a white person just like you. Pointing out the fact of your "white privilege" is never meant to accomplish anything other than to burnish the progressive credentials of the person doing the pointing. And when I say "pointing," I don't mean a gentle reminder that you have benefited from some ancient, well-established social and financial apparatus that has elevated you to your current loft without so much as a callus on your part. I mean THIS sort of pointing:



(Let us ignore for a moment that almost everyone on DU is not named Bush, Kennedy, Clinton, Trump, Morgan, Rothschild, or any other name associated with actual, tangible privilege. Those white people don't read DU, so finding them to chide them about their ACTUAL is, like, HARD, man. Better to remind a poor guy that at least the cops don't crack his skull every ten minutes. That way time can be preserved to throw support behind someone about to cash in their actual privilege chips to run for President again.)


You asked a fair question of those who bolster their self-esteem, street cred, and post counts what you are to do with this awful privilege that has been bestowed upon you. You got wiseassed responses or ones that urge you to work to change the system or short-circuit the process. Using, you know, those methods we all know work so well. At this point you might start to realize that this whole "white privilege" thing is pretty much an enormous pyramid scheme, except in place of soap or timeshares or internet advertising, you are meant to sell guilt. The persons who have reminded you of your "white privilege" are selling you guilt. And the only way for you to not have to buy the guilt is for YOU to sell the guilt. And when those who have sold YOU the guilt see that YOU'RE selling guilt, then they know that they're higher on the pyramid than you, and that is what matters.

And you know this hierarchy is all that matters because, again, the product is the process. No one ever said Amway's soap is GOOD. It's just supposed to be BOUGHT. In this same way, when you confront those attempting to hold themselves above you, they have damn little in the way of actually DOING SOMETHING about this thing which literally infects your DNA. Conduct the following exercise: count the posts on DU reminding otherwise good Democrats and progressives how shameful their "white privilege" is, and then count the number of posts in which someone details concrete actions they have undertaken to negate or toss off their "white privilege." The former will overwhelm the latter, and in fact the ratio may be near infinity.

My advice is to nod politely at the Check Your Privilege squad and move along. You don't have to buy soap if you don't want it, and you damn sure don't have to sell it, and in fact I bet you're already reasonably clean in the first place.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:45 PM

53. A DUer started a thread yesterday to discuss concrete ways to address institutional racism.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6486403

15 replies and 6 recs.

Certainly the contrast between this and the response to the "fuck white privilege" threads gives one a feel for folks' motivations here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:29 AM

25. Awareness is the goal.

 

On my walk to Starbucks this morning, I passed two black guys at a bus stop and I thought how different our lives must be. Me with a good paying job headed for a couple of high-priced coffees and a morning spent listening to angsty yuppie music in the background during pleasant conversations with others. And they likely headed toward a weekend of working some minimum wage job that they will never be free of.

Of course that could have been an unwarranted assumption on my part but one can't know the truth of 'pass-through' encounters like this.

I don't feel guilty. I don't even have a college degree yet I've done quite well for myself. But I'm aware that the odds of my 'struggle' have always been much better than they are for non-Caucasians.

That doesn't need to diminish my accomplishments. It's simply a recognition of reality.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:39 AM

27. Aw.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:45 AM

29. Awww you poor thing...

Come sit next to me and I'll give you some milk and cookies and you can tell me all about your problems and then you'll feel all better. There there...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:02 AM

42. just knowing you care makes me feel all fuzzy and safe.

 

thanks mom.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:51 AM

30. We need REPARATIONS!

 

There is a debt unpaid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:03 AM

31. There are not any 'groups' of people's who are stereotyped by the idiots among them

Be it of racial, ethnic, religious, geographical, sexual, age, nationality, etal; there is no end to holding a group accountable for the actions of a few.
This is why it is so important for those who see injustice to speak out.
Personally, I find it hard to not hold all Republicans in contempt because not one of them has the nerve to call out the mad men among them.
We all are guilty of judging the many for the actions of a few. This ends when people start calling out those among themselves who have hatred in their hearts and like minded kind people will recognize the humanity and unity within us all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:06 AM

32. Penance? This is not about religion. This is about political systems

and economic systems, not feelings. This is about policies that lead to real conditions and outcomes for real people.

To do something about a system that rewards or punishes people primarily along lines of race and class, you must first recognize the reality of it.

Whether or not you as an individual have benefited from this type of privilege is, frankly, irrelevant.

If you think there should be more equality and justice, you fight for those things however you see fit (electoral politics, workplace organizing, whatever). But those methods will never be effective unless you recognize where the sharpest line is drawn - along race (and class, of course, the close cousin to race, in terms of real conditions for people).

If you think addressing and confronting white privilege and the systems that protect it is a matter of a 'shame-fest', well, that's your problem inside your own head, man. Again, this is not about feelings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:17 AM

33. oh goody

another why should I feel guilty because I'm white thread. At times, reading DU feels like playing "Whack a Mole"

Have your pick of these why should I feel white guilt threads.

https://www.google.com/search?q=white+guilt&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&gws_rd=ssl

As many people here have already told you, white privilege is not the same as white guilt. IMO white guilt is a made up term by racists that is used to diminish the effects of racism and to justify the use of reverse racism claims. Why should I feel guilty because I am white. I can't change the color of my skin any more than a black person can.

I will ask you these questions. When your parents bought a house, were they shown houses in a neighborhood they could afford and interested in or were they redlined. How about that interest rate? Did they get a rate based on their credit or based on the color of their skin?

How about buying a car? were they shown what they were interested in buying or were they only shown cars that the salesman thought they could afford based on their skin?

Were you ever stopped by the police and given a warning for a broken tail light or did you get a ticket and have your car searched? Were you ever pulled over for the offense of driving a nice car while white? I read a story the other day where a cop went to pull over 2 black teen brothers, they apparently didn't pull over fast enough for the cop (less that 1/4 mile) he called or back up, approached the car with his gun drawn. Back got there and drew their guns. The teens offense? Driving through a "known drug area" on their way to their grandmother's house.

If you acted up in school were you given detention or a suspension? Was your misbehavior attributed to your skin tone? Were your parents ability to raise a well behaved child called into question? Was it automatically assumed that misbehaved child + skin tone = welfare recipient = won't amount to anything?

I have no doubt you worked hard. So did that AfAm co-worker. That got paid less and passed over for promotions.

These are a few examples of white privilege. The biggest one of all....getting to be being oblivious to all of this because you are white and it doesn't happen to you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mercuryblues (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:30 AM

36. ^this

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mercuryblues (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:38 PM

50. +1

 

And a big "fuck you!" to our lurking friends watching through the glass.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:17 AM

34. Whole lotta *I* going on in that OP

*We* had no idea that the topic was going to cause so much distress.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:28 AM

35. You are not supposed to feel guilty, but you should acknowledge that it is easier to be white

Unless of course you don't think that your life is easier then a black person in the same income/gender bracket.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:38 AM

37. I'd give you 1/2 a rec if that were permitted.

 

Reality is: on AVERAGE it is easier to be white than it is to be black in this society. There are myriad reasons for this this and it should come as no surprise to anyone posting here. ( And I don't think it does to YOU either.)

HOWEVER... you have a point in the sense that the *terminology*.... in this case "white privilege" is tone deaf and counterproductive. Doubtless the coinage of a "Left Forum" confab somewhere or a more gradually emerging consensus of lefty grad students and their terminally pc professors.

The phrase drips with manipulation and condescension. If you want to make inroads with people... in this case an obvious target population would be working class whites.... you don't start out by telling them how "privileged" they are.

Normal people understand this instinctively; alas, the academic left does NOT.

Which is why more people don't take them ( us) seriously.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:45 AM

38. Why do these threads always remind me of this poem?



The White Man's Burden" is a poem by the English poet Rudyard Kipling.

It was originally published in the popular magazine McClure's in 1899, with the subtitle The United States and the Philippine Islands.[1] The poem was originally written for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, but exchanged for "Recessional"; Kipling changed the text of "Burden" to reflect the subject of American colonization of the Philippines, recently won from Spain in the Spanish-American War.[2] The poem consists of seven stanzas, following a regular rhyme scheme. At face value it appears to be a rhetorical command to white men to colonize and rule other nations for the benefit of those people (both the people and the duty may be seen as representing the "burden" of the title).

Although Kipling's poem mixed exhortation to empire with somber warnings of the costs involved, imperialists within the United States of America understood the phrase "white man's burden" as justifying imperialism as a noble enterprise.[3][4][5][6][7] Because of its theme and title, it has become emblematic both of Eurocentric racism and of Western aspirations to dominate the developing world.[8][9][10] A century after its publication, the poem still rouses strong emotions, and can be analyzed from a variety of perspectives.


more at link below
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:55 AM

39. You could get down off the cross and read to educate yourself. That would be nice. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:57 AM

40. You have so much to learn.

Even the poorest most deprived person born, who looks white, will always be in the front of the line when it comes to jobs, places to live, and places to play. Even many white people don't have 100% white privilege if they were born Jewish or a woman. Many Jews were denied membership in elitist country clubs in the last century and I'm certain there are still Country Clubs who deny them membership covertly, of course, in this day and age. White women are denied access to men's clubs which put many of them at a disadvantage if they are in business as many business deals are made in such clubs and the women left out. And speaking of those men's clubs, the only men of color you saw were the employees, waiters, cooks and other menial positions.

I could go on with many examples, but I'll leave you with this personal anecdote. Back in my working days, when my girl friends and I went on job interviews, all of us who were white but with brown or black hair and brown eyes always knew that when there was a blue eyed blond in the waiting room that she would get the job. If there were women of color, we knew we would get the job. We knew that the bar would be raised on those women. I saw it happen. I spoke to a black woman after a job interview we both went for. She told me she failed the typing test at 80 WPM. I usually had to test for 60 WPM. Yet, often when I talked to blond lady acquaintances, they told me they didn't have to take typing tests for their jobs. All they had to do was say they had taken typing classes in school.

So you see, if you haven't been discriminated against, you probably wouldn't realize it until it happens to you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:51 AM

44. Well, at least you're asking a question, even if passive-aggressively.

I think that no one expects penance from you, or an apology. You will have to hearn what white privilege really is, and then maybe work with other people to help dismantle it. That should satisfy anyone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Orsino (Reply #44)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:35 PM

49. It's amazing the protections that DU has in place for these people.

 

But, without knuckledraggers at DU, posting rates would plummet. Then what?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:06 PM

46. Just my opinion, but you AREN'T supposed to feel guilty. What you ARE

supposed to do, is recognize that by the sheer dumb luck of being born white (and possibly being born to parents who could always afford to clothe you, house you, and feed you in a supportive, healthy manner), you started life with a great advantage over many, MANY other people.

You are "supposed to" recognize this fact in your heart, and consider that other people you meet on the street may not have been born with such advantage; and especially minorities probably were not born with such advantage. So don't think you hit a triple when you were born on third base, you know? And don't act like you think that. And recognize that someone else might have actually hit what should have been a triple, but the umpire tripped them on the way to first base. And act to everyone you meet, even the guy cleaning the bathroom, that you recognize this reality.

Also, that the fact that you are white, and I'm guessing male (just by writing style, my apologies if I'm mistaken), you get to do things where other people don't bat an eye or even question it, but if you were black, you would be questioned, stopped by cops, treated by other people like a "thug" or similar. No you don't have to feel "guilty" about this reality - you didn't cause it - but recognize that others' lives are burdened by this sort of thing and if you think you are "competing" and getting what you get by "merit", realize that a good chunk of the other people in this game are playing with balls and chains NOT of their own making. So if you ever feel prideful of what you have accomplished in life, well that is fine when you are thinking of obstacles you have overcome and the effort you have put in, but don't ever think you are "better" than the guy who was born with the ball and chain. And don't even get me started on the things men can do that women can't. At least that has gotten somewhat better since when I was a kid and a girl couldn't even play on a baseball team, let alone a thousand other things.

THAT'S what "privilege" is about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:33 PM

48. "I don't hold anything against anybody,....... unless they are an asshole." Self loathing, perhaps?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:38 PM

51. Check your privilege.

Realize that you are going through life on the easiest difficulty setting imaginable.

Recognize and acknowledge that you are part of the institutional white power structure (from Joe Biden on downwards).

Check your privilege again.

Finally, check your privilege one more time, just to be safe.

Hope this helps

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:39 PM

52. You're not supposed to feel guilty or pay anything. That's missing the point. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:47 PM

54. ROFL

 



Ooooooof.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #54)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 04:25 PM

66. Interesting day at the DUs!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 12:56 PM

55. Yep, there is white privilege for most. Do the best you can. That's it. eom

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 01:03 PM

56. Just side with the reparations movement . . .

to repay the centuries of government-sanctioned, dawn-to-dusk, unpaid labor by enslaved people that helped to build this country's.

It's a dept owed and should be rectified — any business or any country can get rich if they don't have to pay labor cost, which are usually 50% of overhead. I repeat, it's a debt owed.

And BTW, we're not talking about checks being cut to individuals but for scholarship funds, small business grants, computer literacy classes for older folks — those kinds of positive things that will help the African American community which didn't not benefit from centuries of wages that may have enabled ancestors to pass some down in the form on an inheritance, whether it be just a few hundred dollars to newlyweds to establish a household or maybe even a house, or valuable possesions.

This, IMO, goes a long way towards explaining the household wealth gap between black and white households.

And remember, if we just cut the Defense Department budget by one percent what I described can get done and it won't becoming out of anyone's pocket.

You can help by passing on this idea of "centuries of unpaid labor". Most people can get their head around that because everyone understands working hard and not getting paid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 01:24 PM

57. No one is asking anyone to give up anything.

We are saying, no demanding, that everyone be included into what is called "white privilege". Which includes automatic assumption of benign behavior, automatic assumption of trustworthiness, and automatic assumption of having a right to be in certain places at certain times.
There is a hell of a lot of other conditions we are automatically granted at face value. Start with these and we'll work on the others tomorrow (and I mean April 12th 2015, not "sometime" in the future).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 01:26 PM

58. Bullshit.

You are white on purpose. I can tell, just by reading this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 01:35 PM

60. It's pretty easy to ignore if you don't like it.

Who cares if someone says you're privileged? Only you can can determine how you look at your life. It's not like it's inscribed in some law or anything.

I feel no guilt hearing the phrase white privilege. Nor do I feel to need to take extra steps to try and nullify it. I know who I am and what I'm about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 01:48 PM

62. generalities


I've always wondered wonder where white hispanics fit in the mix being in NM ?

Between black & euro-white
Between euro-white and asian
Between Native Americans and white

it's all so confusing to figure out where you fit in todays culture intensive, color coded fixations.

I live among Native Americans, Mexican-Hispanics, Hispanics as white as a Norweigan, Black Hispanics, , African Americans and Asians without the angst between the inhabitants. Granted AA population is only about 2% where Hispanic is about 60%, but for some reason the tensions shown just in this OP I never see and i'm glad I don't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 04:10 PM

63. There are DUers here who have an agenda

conserning this issue. Nothing you say or ask will change that. It is best to stay out of these topics because you just present yourself as a target just as I am doing now,
Even though I agree that white privilege exists.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 04:24 PM

65. Why would you feel guilt!? I just don't get that at all. Seems to me it signals something unnoticed.

 

Unnoticed by the very person asking the question. I DO NOT FEEL guilt about being white...I notice that I have DIFFERENT STANDARDS by which society judges me...as opposed to say a women or black person (I am a white man).

So you see, you are confused by your own emotions as to why you feel the way you do. NOBODY is saying you should feel guilt...unless you are defensively saying that is what is being said by others!

Think about it, it is called recognizing institutionalized racism and maybe doing something about it in a small or large way. And even if you DO NOT, there is still no guilt involved. You are under no obligation to even acknowledge such a thing, free country.

Guilt only follows around those that feel guilty. In case ya didn't know that.

Ask me how I know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:16 PM

67. Try this ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:32 PM

68. I don't get why you think discussing white privilege is shaming or has anything to do with guilt

Who said you should feel guilty?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 10:25 AM

72. By simple logical extension,

the obvious bias against black people in our culture, offers whites advantages over them. This fact should be readily apparent to anyone. All that is asked, is that you learn about it and acknowledge it.

The institutionalized racism in Western culture, is firmly founded on centuries of exploitation of the African continent and the enslavement of its people. The exploitation continues to this day. Read something about this topic. If it doesn't provide you some insight, nothing will.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 12:43 PM

78. First thing I would say.

 

Is to understand you don't get to make this comment in honest. "I'm not racist"

Others judge us with respect to racism. Many racists make the exact claim. Nothing you have ever done gives you the truthful right to say you are not a racist. That simply isn't how society or human nature works.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 12:45 PM

79. You're not.

 

You're just supposed to be aware of the many subtle ways it impacts your life.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 12:56 PM

80. Ignore the snarky assholes

that take pleasure out of their miserable lives to respond like...well...snarky assholes. They're like sharks in bloody waters, or posters in white privilege threads that want to doll out tired jokes that they think are clever.

My advice is to not feel "guilty" for being white. White guilt doesn't solve jack squat. Instead, just recognize that being white, you'll never be systematically discriminated against by police or the justice system, or followed around a store while shopping, or passed up for a job etc. That doesn't mean that it's okay for others to make you feel ashamed of being white or to call you "honky, cracker, whatever". Just treat everyone, regardless of their color or ethnic background, with respect and uplift them. Fight against racism with us, be tolerant and kind, and always speak up when you see any kind of discrimination towards another person.

I hope this response was more helpful than some of the snarkier ones that didn't add a damn thing to the thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to romanic (Reply #80)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 01:17 PM

81. +1

nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 01:30 PM

82. I imagine it's much more convenient to call it "white shaming" than it is to

 

I imagine it's much more convenient to call it "white shaming", and much well-suited to the irrational to pretend people are instructing you to pay penance than it is to engage in a sincere, insightful and honest debate with one's own ethics, behaviors and actions.

It certainly let's us better rationalize that which lies in ourselves which we condemn others for.



"I and my bosom must debate awhile,
And then I would no other company..."
W. Shakesepeare

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 01:36 PM

83. Talk about missing the point about privilege.

It is simply an acknowledgement that certain groups tend to have built-in advantages in life. That can come from being white, or being male, or being wealthy. Or all three at once. Do you not see that you will not be hassled by the police for walking around someplace? That you do not (generally) have to fear being killed by cops if they do stop you? If you are arrested for something, you will be given the benefit of the doubt in a way that black men, especially, are not.If you grew up in the suburbs, as I did, you are more than likely expected to go to college. And encouraged to do so. That is not true necessarily if you are from an underprivileged background.

It has nothing to do with what you might owe someone. It is not a literal payment. It is simply realizing that you have advantages that others may not have. It might not feel like you do, but you do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NM_Birder (Original post)

Tue Apr 14, 2015, 08:21 AM

88. Think of it as 'white responsibility' to end racism then.

I will never understand how people have such a problem understanding what privledge is, Given the history of racism, past and present that infests the U.S. Being white is shameful if we act in a shameful manner. Ignorance is no excuse. Not understanding privledge is ignorant.

This was written to outline what privledge is.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread