womens rights: republican or democrat. no difference.

[seabeyond]

Last edited Mon Apr 13, 2015, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

wait, wha?????

ya. that is what i am saying. when i hear so many saying there is no difference between either party. i say..... what? really? womens rights. gays rights. a better chance to deal with cops shooting and killing black young men.

there is no difference?

on a thread earlier, i finally heard it said out loud. and silly me, i did not even think about this. i have been saying to white democratic men, that there is a difference between the parties. now i am down to, well... women gays and blacks and browns, anyway. that really is a lot of us, that voting dem will benefit. oh, ya and the poor too. and that silly ole new voter that can really use a dem also.

cause there is no difference

i finally read the statement made, that makes sense. both parties are the same. other than stupidity of any kind of knowledge about the two parties, i could not understand how white democratic men could say this. i figured they were just forgetting about us po, young, old, black, gay, women.

i am going to find the statement.... : (this is a poster responding to the statement democrats and republicans are the same).

My response is "Yes, I know".

Because the fact is, there is very little that seperates the parties on the issues that really matter.

you know what my first thought was. women, blacks, gays, poor and old are not important. then ya, i can surely see how that person, that thinking, sees no difference between a republican and a progressive.

that makes sense.

so..... simply cause, democratics take care of the po and old and black and brown and woman and gay..... they have my support and vote. i will work from there. at least it is a start.

[BainsBane]

1. If one is privileged enough

There probably is little difference which party controls the White House and congress. But for the majority of Americans, it makes a big difference.

[freshwest]

4. 'Politics is a hobby for the leisure class.' The rest of us, not so much...

And after a while, we get tired of having it 'splained' to us by our 'betters...'

[stage left]

2. K&R

When I see someone say that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are the same, I recall the bumper sticker that says something like "the Democratic Party isn't perfect, but those other guys are insane. The signs of their insanity(or is it mendacity?) are all around us. They're working hard to turn the clock back on women's rights, gay rights, and people of color. They've worked to gut the voting rights act and make voting as difficult as they can for people of color.

While it's still legal to get an abortion in this country, they've made it extremely difficult to do so. They're working hard to make contraception unattainable for many women. What kind of madman makes that difficult in a world bursting at the seams? Republican madmen. They've framed equal rights under the law for LGBT people as some sort of assault on their religious freedom. Christians are the vast majority in this country and somehow they're the victims? I don't think so.

Their avowed purpose has always been to do away with Social Security and Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security disability, leaving the elderly and the disabled in the same situation they were in pre-Social Security--freezing to death or dying of hunger.

So, while I realize that most politicians are out of touch with their constituents and too much in thrall to corporations, I still see a significant difference between the two parties. Not as great a difference as I might wish, but a difference.

Those other guys? They're nuts.

[seabeyond]

3. but, who is the person that says, none of this matters. it is not the important stuff.

thank you for your post.

[stage left]

20. It shouldn't be a Democrat saying none of it matters.

That's for sure. Women, people of color, and LGBT, these groups are the foundation of the Democratic Party, the bulwark, the heart, the core. Its stance in support of the helpless, the old,the poor, the hungry, the homeless, that is its soul.

[bettyellen]

5. It's been obvious for a while, the distain for "SJWs" around here....

That the people complaining about them value their own bank accounts more than our lives. Most are completely ignorant about the assault on reproductive rights in America, and often argue that women have already acheived equality in the workplace. They blame the shitty economy on discrimination and want a pay day themselves before our concerns are addressed! They don't even realize they are ordering women and POC to the back of their bus. That's how clueless they are.

Such ignorance and greed has no place here, yet they claim to be more progressive. They aren't by a long shot. They're interested in money or the net, and seem to know and care little political or social history.

[PeaceNikki]

6. I don't think it's ignorance, I think it's indifference.

Otherwise, I agree with you 100%.

[BainsBane]

7. Some of it is open resentment

That Democrats seek to appeal to women and "minorities." They dismiss our concerns as "social issues."

[PeaceNikki]

8. OK, I'll buy that.

[bettyellen]

23. But a lot seem to think social problems are solved- have no idea how bad shit is for others...

And yes, it's borne of indifference, and selfishness.

[freshwest]

16. They are pointedly ignoring the bedrock for inequality. Were Africans enslaved and treated

like animals because of a sense of brotherhood or belief in their human rights as equals, despite the struggle to prove otherwise, according to a de facto rendering of natural law?

Has that oppression been dealt with, or do they choose to ignore it?

By ignoring, I don't mean ignorance, but accepting others aren't equal, after all. It just goes right over their heads.

Is what has been done to women and minorities over centuries the product of love of freedom and liberty for all?

Did their chief enemies invent those crimes against people, or did they go along with their accepted society, based on inequality, just like them?

I beg to differ with their description of when these social issues stopped being revelant. Because they are the heart of income inequality, property rights and all matters of individual oppression.

[SidDithers]

9. DU rec...

I was disappointed more posters didn't highlight that comment for the nonsense it is. I guess people didn't see it.

Thanks for bringing attention to it in this thread.

Sid

[William769]

10. Good job seabeyond.

[Jamaal510]

11. These people don't care enough

to look up and calculate the many differences between Hillary/whatever Dem and the GOP, and it's much less work to liken both sides based on in-the-moment personal feelings about a small number of issues.

[seabeyond]

13. that is how i always interpreted it until the comment, "what matters". nt

[whatthehey]

12. It depends what matters to you I guess

I'm certainly not trying to win more liberal-than-thou competitions on DU, or claim any unusual degree of empathy. I'd fail miserably if I tried either. I personally would probably be better off with Republicans in charge, certainly no worse off now my kid is grown and I am perforce asexual. I'm not likely to get to any NYC money-raising salons soon but I am unashamedly financially comfortable and prefer a vanilla suburban lifestyle.

But what about where I as an individual stop? No, again I'm not pretending to be a crusading liberal altruist. I've marched in parades a few times but never risked arrest or life and limb for any cause. But we are talking here about votes and donations and campaign volunteering. I do that at least, and always for Dems. Not because of what's best for me but what's best for all. Even this is not altruism but utilitarianism. Society functions better when everyone has a chance to contribute and is equipped and allowed to do so, and the basic universalization principle says that what I want the right and freedom to do should belong to others where it generates more benefit than harm. I am, I confess with no great shame, a selfish altruist in this regard, with selfishness universalized to my society as well as myself.

Perhaps the asinine "no difference" commentary comes from a belief that only, say, military spending or drone usage or banking regulations are important, and that equal rights and the preservation of some basic social safety net don't matter to people like them, or even me (because again on a purely individual solipsistic level, they don't). Even if you live such an incredibly blinkered worldview, common sense tells you that Dems have a better chance at making the right calls there. It was Bill Clinton, regularly demonized here, who started trimming the Pentagon's superfluous bases and programs. It was the piece of shit used car salesman Obama who drew down Afghan forces and signed Dodd-Frank. No matter what your shibboleths or how left-wing your purity, yoiu will always always always have a better chance of benefit AND much reduced harm (why does everyone forget that latter part?) ror them with Dems in charge. I just realize that is important not just for my own personal benefit or views but for the society's to which I belong too. What's wrong with voting for societal benefit?

[seabeyond]

14. "crusading liberal altruist." equality is altruistic to you, then?

[whatthehey]

21. Did you actually read what I wrote?

Answered that point quite thoroughly.

[seabeyond]

24. reading, it felt to me like you do and you do not. you keep relegating it to insignificance,

one way or another.

that was my feel. you state the importance, yet, individually dismiss it.

did i read incorrectly?

[geek tragedy]

15. same Naderite "gonadal politics" attempt to disappear GLBT and women from politics

Gloria Steinem was not impressed.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45c/072.html

Nader is rightly obsessed with economic and corporate control, yet he belittles the movements against a deeper form of control--control of reproduction, and the most intimate parts of our lives. For example, he calls the women's movement and the gay and lesbian movements "gonadal politics," and ridicules the use of the word "patriarchy," as if it were somehow more less important than the World Trade Organization. As Congressman Barney Frank wrote Nader in an open letter, "your assertion that there are not important issue differences between Bush andGore is either flatly inaccurate or reflects your view that...the issues are not important...since you have generally ignored these issues in your career...)"

[seabeyond]

17. him and pauls libertarian. interesting that. nt

[BainsBane]

18. Let's review some of the issues that don't really matter

Last edited Mon Apr 13, 2015, 06:00 PM - Edit history (1)

Reproductive rights
Equal pay for equal work
Marriage equality
voting rights
Social Security
Unemployment
Assistance for the poor
Assistance for the disabled
Higher education
K-12 Education
Global Climate Change
The Environment
Federally funded research: NIH, NSF, NEH, and NEA
Family planning at home and abroad
Disaster preparedness (remember Katrina?)
Some regulation of Wall Street vs. Complete deregulation
Job training and infrastructure projects vs. even greater tax cuts for the rich
Prosecution of Hate Crimes
Civil rights and enforcement of the Fourteenth Amendment
Women's rights as human rights

Those are just some of the issues that don't really matter according to a certain crowd of self-proclaimed "leftists" (not a term I myself would use to describe them at all). Is there any wonder the rest of America doesn't go along with them? They have just basically said our lives don't matter.

[bettyellen]

27. Great summary- and when you contrast that list against priorities 1&2 - their paycheck

And their "freedom" from the NSA, they sound like nothing more than paranoid selfish Livertarians. Which is basically what most of them are, but must be too embarrassed to admit.
That "both the same" bullshit is for only the most uninformed or purely selfish people.

[justiceischeap]

19. Keep in mind the great gay purge from a few years ago on DU

We were openly blamed for losing elections because of our issues and maybe we should sit down and shut up. Sound familiar?

This was on DU BTW, so this idea that there isn't huge differences between the parties has always floated here and I suspect always will.

There are people in the Democratic Party that are just as me, me, me as Republicans--people that Poo-poo the idea that if nothing else voting for HRC is worthy because of the Supreme Court. The youngest of 4 members we could lose in the next 4/8 years is 78. Looking at the Citizens United decision is enough for me to swallow hard and vote for a candidate that isn't everything I want but is enough of what I need to feel good about future generations.

[PeaceNikki]

22. Amen and THANK YOU!

[justiceischeap]

25. You're welcome and thank you! nt

[seabeyond]

28. i remember. yes. nt

[emulatorloo]

26. Thanks so much for articulating this so well. This is one of the most disturbing trends I've ever

seen on DU.