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me b zola

(19,053 posts)
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:30 PM Apr 2015

On this date, 4/17/1963, Adults entered into a contract that limited my rights without my permission

Fifty-two years ago today I was born and immediately removed from my mother. My mother, and an adoption agency entered ==>>ME==<< into a legally binding contract without my permission but yet affects me for my entire life. Today I am going to not speak about how this contract affects my son and my four grandchildren, as well as the human rights issues in how my mother came to be involved in this contract to begin with. Today is about me. Today is about my rights.

I am a fifty-two year old woman who is not legally entitled to my own birth certificate. My own birth documents were sealed away upon my birth, and the contract signed by adults at the time of my birth say that I am not entitled to them. Lets skip past the part that I am in reunion with both sides of my family and of course my advancing age. What other infant can be the object of a legal contract that will affect them for their entire life? How can this odious practice begin to even meet the lowest of ethical standards for any institution?

Do parents have the right to obligate their infant into a contract that will last a lifetime? How about a parent who is offered assistance if they sign their infant up for military service? If that crazy analogy makes you say 'hell no!' then how can it be okay for the crazy circumstance that I was born into?

For those who want to dismiss any adoptee for demanding the right to their own birth documents, I would only say that privilege makes it difficult to see beyond your own circumstance. You have yours, so its no big-deal that others have no access to theirs. As far as you are concerned my water fountain is lovelier than yours so I should just STFU...right?

This is a civil and human rights issue. No one has the right to impose their legal contract on me, no one gets to say which of my own personal documents I have access to.

If you say that you support adoption, then please, support adoptees. Support equal rights for adoptees. Only 20% or so of our lives is spent as children. We are human beings and deserve the same rights as other citizens.

Support adoptee rights, no "mother may I', but true legislation that allows us the same rights as you.

68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On this date, 4/17/1963, Adults entered into a contract that limited my rights without my permission (Original Post) me b zola Apr 2015 OP
I think you have a right to know your heritage and your ancestry. I've always felt this way. nt MADem Apr 2015 #1
I'm with you here. nt stevenleser Apr 2015 #2
I hope it's not inappropriate to wish you Happy Birthday. cherokeeprogressive Apr 2015 #3
Not inappropriate at all me b zola Apr 2015 #24
... shenmue Apr 2015 #4
Hugs back attcha! me b zola Apr 2015 #25
(((((((me b zola)))))))... TeeYiYi Apr 2015 #5
I am also an adoptee, and I wholeheartedly agree. [n/t] Maedhros Apr 2015 #6
You are so right. yellowwoodII Apr 2015 #7
Hello yellowood me b zola Apr 2015 #61
I absolutely agree! Also what is the object of not opening the records after a certain shraby Apr 2015 #8
Great. If you live in a Red state, you probably can't vote. KamaAina Apr 2015 #9
I live in a red state Runningdawg Apr 2015 #10
No, there is no catch 22 me b zola Apr 2015 #13
Every adult should be entitled to access to full information about their birth and their parents. pnwmom Apr 2015 #11
I think you have it right, pnwmom, re Adults having access No Vested Interest Apr 2015 #12
I knew a woman years ago who was so frustrated about not getting this information. pnwmom Apr 2015 #16
Well, if the parents didn't want contact with her, that's their business. No Vested Interest Apr 2015 #17
This was pre-internet, so she didn't know how to find siblings; she only knew that they existed. pnwmom Apr 2015 #53
Well if she never met them are they really her family? ncjustice80 Apr 2015 #55
If you had full siblings related by blood wouldn't you want at least the chance to know them? pnwmom Apr 2015 #58
Not really. ncjustice80 Apr 2015 #59
You know your bio family and you control your degree of contact. That's all adoptees are asking for. pnwmom Apr 2015 #60
while I have nothing against the adoption system... Takket Apr 2015 #14
Probably red state anti-abortion bullshit. ncjustice80 Apr 2015 #57
My parents ... Helen Borg Apr 2015 #15
And I bet your birth certificate list their names me b zola Apr 2015 #23
Just putting things in perspective! :) Helen Borg Apr 2015 #27
Yeah...no me b zola Apr 2015 #32
No, the *OP* is putting things in perspective Cal Carpenter Apr 2015 #56
Would you have rather your birth mother performed an abortion? question everything Apr 2015 #18
Apparently you don't question everything, or at least not enough of yourself me b zola Apr 2015 #22
This post does an excellent job of displaying what is wrong with our attitudes about adoption StevieM Apr 2015 #30
I do feel for the birth mother question everything Apr 2015 #41
It is good to be angry about an injustice. It motivates us to go out and fight for change. StevieM Apr 2015 #42
Wow, you ought to win something for that. A-Schwarzenegger Apr 2015 #35
My husband's Aunt chose abortion so a grown child wouldn't come looking for her HockeyMom Apr 2015 #38
The OP says that she is in reunion. That means that she has found and reunited with her birth family StevieM Apr 2015 #40
your husband's aunt ended an unwanted pregnancy. barbtries Apr 2015 #49
I'm an adoptee, too. And I could not agree with you MORE!!! calimary Apr 2015 #19
Small problem with that HockeyMom Apr 2015 #43
I did not know the names of either one. Finally found siblings. calimary Apr 2015 #51
Do you know if your biological mother talked about you or expressed a desire to reunite with you? StevieM Apr 2015 #52
It was a secret she took with her to her grave. Nobody could have guessed. calimary Apr 2015 #54
I support adoptees rights to know their birth heritage, health history, ancestry, etc. Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #20
You raise a very important issue. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #21
I am a birth mother Blue_In_AK Apr 2015 #26
Oh Blue! me b zola Apr 2015 #62
Oh, of course. I took nothing of what you said personally. Blue_In_AK Apr 2015 #63
I remember you once wrote that you had daughters. Have either of them StevieM Apr 2015 #64
I have three daughters. Blue_In_AK Apr 2015 #65
Both of our kids... meaculpa2011 Apr 2015 #28
Thank you for your response. I am very happy that both of your children have their records me b zola Apr 2015 #44
Maybe I missed something. meaculpa2011 Apr 2015 #29
When an adoption happens the state seals the original birth certificate and replaces it with StevieM Apr 2015 #34
Thanks for the info about the amended certificate. ManiacJoe Apr 2015 #48
Yes, I am in reunion with both sides of my natural family me b zola Apr 2015 #39
Agreed. meaculpa2011 Apr 2015 #46
Happy Birthday, Me B Zola. I actually had thought of you a couple days ago. There was an article StevieM Apr 2015 #31
Know the Laws!!!!! citizen blues Apr 2015 #33
Exactly. Mothers don't forget. And they never asked to be "protected" from their children. StevieM Apr 2015 #36
thank you barbtries Apr 2015 #50
That's a powerful story. Thanks for sharing. Faryn Balyncd Apr 2015 #45
My goodness! DawgHouse Apr 2015 #37
Happy Birthday, me b zola beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #47
Your permission was impossible to obtain at the time treestar Apr 2015 #66
The sealing of birth records had nothing to do with a birth mother's privacy. StevieM Apr 2015 #67
I agree the society then gave little choice treestar Apr 2015 #68

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
24. Not inappropriate at all
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:23 PM
Apr 2015

...but then again, history reveals that I am no arbiter of what is or is not appropriate.

Thank you for your kind wish

yellowwoodII

(616 posts)
7. You are so right.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 02:02 PM
Apr 2015

I agree with you.
In the meantime, get your DNA tested. It's amazing to see how accurately they are able to identify your relatives. It costs $100, and you find siblings and up to fourth cousins if they have been tested.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
61. Hello yellowood
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 07:00 PM
Apr 2015

Thank your for your post and the information that is contained within. I am in reunion, and after the fact did DNA testing with 23&me to shut down a hateful sister. But I really don't want to discuss these issues within this post, but stay on the most basic level: I am not legally entitled to my own birth documents and this must change.

I do recommend DNA testing for all peoples denied their birth documents, but implore all of you to demand access to your own documents, to not accept that you are less then anyone else.





Our Mission
Bastard Nation advocates for the civil and human rights of adult citizens who were adopted as children. Millions of North Americans are prohibited by law from accessing personal records that pertain to their historical, genetic and legal identities. Such records are held by their governments in secret and without accountability, due solely to the fact that they were adopted.
Bastard Nation campaigns for the restoration of their right to access their records. The right to know one’s identity is primarily a political issue directly affected by the practice of sealed records adoptions. Please join us in our efforts to end a hidden legacy of shame, fear and venality.

http://www.bastards.org/

shraby

(21,946 posts)
8. I absolutely agree! Also what is the object of not opening the records after a certain
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 02:03 PM
Apr 2015

number of years have passed? That is a bunch of b.s. too.

Runningdawg

(4,516 posts)
10. I live in a red state
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 02:22 PM
Apr 2015

I am adopted and I can vote. I have a legal birth certificate, it's just made up BS. It has my adoptive parents names on it. While I agree that adoptees should be able to know the truth about their bio parents, I can also see where that would cause privacy concerns for those parents. Its a catch22.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
13. No, there is no catch 22
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:03 PM
Apr 2015

Above and beyond the fact that natural mothers do not seek and are not promised "privacy", aodptees should be treated as other humans who have access to their own history. I am trying very hard to remain true to my OP and write solely from the adoptee rights POV, but there is much that first-mothers have to say about this. But continuing on, the fact that an adult creates a child does not give them the right to obligate me to a lifelong to a contract without my permission..

For kept children, an unwilling father is still obligated to pay child support. He may have absolutely no desire to parent, yet he is a parent. Using this analogy is scary to me because people who wish to misunderstand adoptee rights will conflate the analogy in all the wrong ways. As you probably know, adoptees are in no way shape or form seeking any monetary gain. The analogy is only meant to highlight the fact that just because you wish to wave a wand and make something (or someone whom you are responsible for bringing into this world) dismissed does not make it so. No one is suggesting that anyone be forced into a relationship that they do not want, but no one has the right to deny me the truth about my origins.

There is no "catch 22" when it comes to adoptee rights. I just demand the same rights as non-adopted persons.

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
11. Every adult should be entitled to access to full information about their birth and their parents.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 02:48 PM
Apr 2015

I hope all the states will change their laws.

No Vested Interest

(5,166 posts)
12. I think you have it right, pnwmom, re Adults having access
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 02:58 PM
Apr 2015

to full information.
While there may be unwanted complications for birth parents with the info being available, the adopted adult - 18 yrs and older- has many reasons - both physical and psychological - for wanting/needing this info.

If the birth parents knew at the time of adoption that the birth info could be protected for 18 yrs, I believe the number of adoptions would not be markedly affected.

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
16. I knew a woman years ago who was so frustrated about not getting this information.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:11 PM
Apr 2015

Her parents didn't want contact with her. And the worst thing was, she had full siblings who knew nothing about her. So she wasn't just being denied contact with her parents, but with her whole family.

No Vested Interest

(5,166 posts)
17. Well, if the parents didn't want contact with her, that's their business.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:20 PM
Apr 2015

Many people don't want contact with some other people, and I don't believe unwanted contact should be forced. Tough, yes, but, unfortunately, it happens in life. We've all known or heard of "regular" families who don't want and don't have contact with one or another.

However, the unwanted child-now-adult should be able to access whatever public information there is, and, as we all know, there is plenty of info out there in public record and social media.

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
53. This was pre-internet, so she didn't know how to find siblings; she only knew that they existed.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 09:28 PM
Apr 2015

And she was afraid of angering her birthparents by looking for them. It seems unfair to me that those parents were standing in her way.

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
58. If you had full siblings related by blood wouldn't you want at least the chance to know them?
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:43 PM
Apr 2015

Yes, they are her biological family.

As an adoptive grandparent, I think adopted children have multiple-layers of relatives -- and that's okay. If and when my granddaughter wants to get to know her biological relatives, we will do what we can to support her.

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
60. You know your bio family and you control your degree of contact. That's all adoptees are asking for.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 10:27 AM
Apr 2015

The same right to know and choose that you have.

Takket

(21,560 posts)
14. while I have nothing against the adoption system...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:03 PM
Apr 2015

not letting you see your own birth certificate is absurd. Even if not when a kid, when you turn 18 you should have a right to know. why is the system even set up that way? The only thing I can think of is it is because they want the natural mother to have anonymity if she wants it because they are afraid she will have an abortion instead? I don't get it...

ncjustice80

(948 posts)
57. Probably red state anti-abortion bullshit.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:43 PM
Apr 2015

Instead of doing the right thing and providing access to abortions to terminate unwanted pregnacies, the rethugs come up with inane policies like not letting ppl have access to their own birth certificates.

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
56. No, the *OP* is putting things in perspective
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:42 PM
Apr 2015

You are just being nasty and repeating the dominant perspective on this situation. The very perspective that is alienating the OP and the many other people in that situation.

That's how you sound, anyway, whether it is your intention or not.

question everything

(47,470 posts)
18. Would you have rather your birth mother performed an abortion?
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:21 PM
Apr 2015

Being a woman, and a mother yourself, can you not put yourself in her position?

In 1962 single mothers were rare and abortion was life threatening. She probably was a young woman, a girl, maybe, who just wanted to have this sad episode behind her. To start anew. Is this so bad?

She signed the adoption papers with a promise of secrecy that this birth would never come back to haunt her.

If it is only about a birth certificate, can one be issued, with all the details covered?

Yes, today we are all for adopted children to find their original family, for, at least, find out medical information, a bone marrow donor if needed.

I think that in many cases, the adoption agency contacts the mother and if she agrees, then there is a meeting.

And what about your adoptive parents? I hope that they were loving, caring ones. I hope that you've considered themselves your real parents. Parents are the ones who nurture us, who mold us, who are there when we fall and who cheer us when we fail.

I feel sorry for you and for your adoptive parents if you've carried this anger for all your lives. And, yes, I think your children and grandchildren deserve a better appreciation of what a parent is.

Yes, I can sympathize with your anger and a sense of helplessness, but I can empathize with your birth mother. Sorry.

It is your birthday, why not let it go, determine that, yes, life is to short to continue wallow in this anger?


me b zola

(19,053 posts)
22. Apparently you don't question everything, or at least not enough of yourself
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:59 PM
Apr 2015

I have previously responded to the odious and hateful "well, swallow it whole or I wish you aborted" posts from other threads. Today I am making every attempt to not be derailed by the likes of posts like yours~although as of right now you are the only person to post hate to this thread.

Tomorrow, though, I may make a post just for you and your issues.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
30. This post does an excellent job of displaying what is wrong with our attitudes about adoption
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:44 PM
Apr 2015

in this country.

Anyone of us could have been aborted. It is unfair to tell adoptees "you could have been aborted." They also could have been born and kept by their natural families.

You are right about single mothers being rare in 1962. That's why it was called the Baby Scoop Era. Women usually had no choice. They often wanted to keep their children but were separated by manipulation and coercion. One way or another, they got her signature to proceed with the adoption that our society was demanding.

But that didn't mean that the women just got over losing their children and happily moved on with their lives. In most cases they grieved for those children for the rest of their days. If you want to show empathy for her first mother then try to empathize with the pain that it cost her to lose her daughter.

And giving birth--giving life--most definitely does make you a real mother IMO.

Finally, I think it is very unfair to tell adoptees to just get over it and let it go. When someone has been wronged, and continues to be wronged, they have every right to process the pain in the manner that is best for them. Part of that often includes speaking out against the injustice that befell them.

question everything

(47,470 posts)
41. I do feel for the birth mother
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:41 PM
Apr 2015

This is what I was trying to convey. I was asking the OP to try to put herself in the birth mother position. First, the shock of finding herself pregnant, perhaps even being kicked out of home if she were a teenager. Then the shock of giving up the baby and trying to start a new life. We've heard many stories about young women who gave up their babies and were happy in their new lives and did not want to have this baby coming up to their lives.

But the OP is about the anger of being put up for adoption. An anger that has lasted for 53 years.

I am older. I have reached a stage in my life when keep nurturing an anger is destructive.

I feel bad for her son and grandchildren that have to live with such anger.

It is not about "getting over it," and this is not what I was trying to say.

It is about the peace of mind of the OP to set her own priorities. Is it really worth it nurturing this anger for the next 30 or 40 years?

If so, I can only pity her.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
42. It is good to be angry about an injustice. It motivates us to go out and fight for change.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:52 PM
Apr 2015

Adoptees have the right to be sad, hurt or angry that they were separated from their blood relatives and turned over to genetic strangers.

And the original post was about the records of her birth. It was about her right to her heritage and her life story, including the part that comes in printed records. You and I have that....and she should have it to. To deny it to her is to proclaim that she is a second class citizen. And you bet that people have the right--the need--to be angry about being treated like a second class citizen.

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
38. My husband's Aunt chose abortion so a grown child wouldn't come looking for her
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:35 PM
Apr 2015

She told me this herself when she was in her 70's. This was back when abortion was still illegal in the 1950's. It was the so called then "change of life baby". She, and her husband, did not want more children at their ages. They paid a lot of money to get a "therapeutic abortion". Financial issues of raising another child was not a problem. She already was a Grandmother when she found she was pregnant. Not typical case, but it can happen even with a married couple.

The OP is in her 50's, and it is very possible her birth parents could be dead. Maybe seal the records until the death of the parents? Long time to wait, but think about what my husband's Aunt did instead.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
40. The OP says that she is in reunion. That means that she has found and reunited with her birth family
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:40 PM
Apr 2015

Or at least those members of her birth family that are still alive.

And if your aunt and uncle had given up that baby....they might well have grieved for her for the rest of their lives. Then again, once she was born they might have changed their minds about the adoption.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
19. I'm an adoptee, too. And I could not agree with you MORE!!!
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:24 PM
Apr 2015

I was born in a closed state - where it was a feeding frenzy for young girls "in trouble," to come in, have the baby, sign some papers, leave it behind, and it was a virtual No-Tell-Motel. Records Sealed. Locked. Files Closed. You're not allowed to know. To spare somebody else's shame. YOU'RE not allowed your very BIRTHRIGHT because they have to hide it to cover up somebody else's shame.

Well, I call BULLSHIT. In my case, that "somebody else's shame" was DECADES ago, and as I later found out, through an unfortunately expensive search, had been dead for years. But I finally found stuff out. And I still feel a great deal of resentment that all that information - ABOUT ME - was kept from me. Forcibly and legally withheld from me. That I couldn't know. Oh the law was relaxed just the teeniest bit - so you could MAYBE find out your biological heritage. Like, wouldn't it be nice to know if your blood lines meant you were susceptible to conditions like cancer, diabetes, heart trouble, even Alzheimers? Wouldn't it be nice, at least, to KNOW? Just to KNOW!!!!!!!! That's really all I wanted to know, especially after I had children myself. What could I tell them? I felt like a loaded gun walking around.

You have EVERY RIGHT to that information. There is no reason on EARTH that I find good enough to withhold that information from you. It's your birthright, dammit.

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
43. Small problem with that
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:57 PM
Apr 2015

Unless the birth parents agree to speak with adopted child, how will you even know if there is cancer, etc., in your bloodline? It is their right to not speak to you at all.

If they are still alive, you cannot demand that from them. Have you ever heard of HIPPA? That applies to parents and children also. Their medical records are sealed unless they agree to give their permission to release it.

My husband has Parkinson's Disease. Our children do no know because Dad does not want them to know. Even I would not know that unless he himself told me. Even I, let alone our kids, could not go to his doctor and DEMAND his medical records.

If you knew the names of your birth parents, that is not going to give you any medical information unless they themselves agree to it. If you are that worried about diseases in your biological family, there is DNA testing you can do.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
51. I did not know the names of either one. Finally found siblings.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 08:28 PM
Apr 2015

I know half the story now - having found my birth mother, or rather, her other kids by the man she eventually married. Her husband was not my biological father. My biological mother is long dead. Nobody knows where my biological father is, and I have a name but I'm not sure it's for sure, since we're relying on the memory of my biological aunt, who's quite elderly - but remembers her older sister needing to get bigger clothes, and looking like she put on weight, and then she and their mom disappearing for about a week without giving any details.

Do you mean HIPAA? I'm against that where it applies to adoptees. What about the adoptee who needs a transfusion, or a transplant, or bone marrow donation? I think it's your birthright - to know literally what you're made of, to know what your biological heritage is. It could mean the difference between life and death. My recently-discovered siblings told me, straight out, that there was cancer in the family. And strangely enough, I was VERY glad to hear that! At least it was SOMETHING. It's the KNOWING. If you're lucky enough to have lived your life knowing where you came from (and from whom), then be glad. Be glad you have that sense of connection and continuity. You really won't know what it's like not to have that, because you probably take that linkage for granted.

I remember when I went back east to meet them all (my siblings). They held a party for me, and all their friends and neighbors came and wanted to see us together and hear my story, and how I found them. I actually related that particular anecdote about hearing there was cancer in the family and that incomprehensibly enough, it made me really happy to get that information. And you should have seen their faces! They were shocked. Some probably bewildered, others horrified! This was something they could not believe they just heard ("she's GLAD to hear about all those cancer situations?!?!?!?!?!?) And YIKES!!!! I had to jump in IMMEDIATELY and apologize and try to explain - "But Wait! You don't understand! It's not that I'm glad to hear all these extended family members had cancer! It's just so good FINALLY TO KNOW!!!!! It's the KNOWING after living my whole life up til then having no clue! I never had an inkling. I had no idea what might be in store. YOU probably take for granted that you know, for example, that your uncle has diabetes and your mom and grandma both had breast cancer, or there's mental illness in your family, or there's heart disease in your family or you've noticed that most of your relatives have high blood pressure, or the tendency toward osteoporosis runs through several generations of the women in your family, or whatever it is. You know that and it's just part of you and you don't really have to guess too much, and you know how to eat to avoid things and what to get tested for as you get older. You KNOW. You KNOW this stuff. You were born to it and some of it was as plain as the nose shapes on your family's faces that have repeated from generation to generation that you may not even take note of anymore.

Much to my relief, I saw their frowns and looks of shock start to relax and disappear. Suddenly, they got it - as far as where I was coming from. It's something they'd never really thought of before. And why should they? It simply wasn't their reality. They were born into all that. It was always just all around them all the time. Every family dinner. Every Christmas or Thanksgiving. Every Easter. Every birthday party with cousins your age and stuff. Some families go out on summer vacation together, or spent winter at the resort in the nearby mountains or whatever. And when that's your world, that's what you know. That's your template against which you compare everything else. How could you know any other way it might be?

For me personally, as an adoptee, I think I have a right to know. Heavens, seems to me, at least, that this is about as basic a human right as there is. But that's just me. If my biological mother had been alive, and had not wanted to meet me, I absolutely would have honored that. But I'm glad I know stuff now. As I watched both my parents struggle with some tremendously ferocious illnesses, every day I wondered "is that what's ahead for me? Should I be trying to change some dietary behavior or take supplements to ward off or delay a possible problem, and other questions. This starts to become increasingly important as one ages (she said, looking at "Year 62" coming up in a little bit). I hope your kids can be told at some point about the Parkinson's Disease. Seems to me they need to know what might be ahead for themselves - when they're old enough, that is. Don't know how old they are but certainly at the point they were ready to become parents themselves. If you know and know what to look for if there's an onset, you can forestall what's more likely than not your biological inheritance. It's like - if there's a history of lung cancer and pulmonary disease in your family, realizing that just might be what finally convinces you to give up smoking. "My mom and grandpa and Aunt Jeanie all had skin cancer. I better stay out of the sun." "I've had five uncles and two grandparents and a great aunt who were alcoholics. I'm NOT gonna drink!" Or possibly even "Parkinson's Disease in my family? What should I know now?"

Understand and sympathize with your honoring your husband's wishes. Sounds like he's doing okay - especially if no one knows about it unless they're specifically told. I hope that's how things stay for a LONG time! Yet I still do hope he changes his mind someday. With something as profound as Parkinson's Disease (in my opinion only), the kids eventually need to know.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
52. Do you know if your biological mother talked about you or expressed a desire to reunite with you?
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 09:01 PM
Apr 2015

Michael Reagan found his biological brother shortly after their mother had died. He was shocked to find out that she had followed him for years and had all sorts of clippings about him. She had a whole album. He said it meant the world to him.

She wanted to know him....but she didn't feel that she had the right.

Here is the article:

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20098541,00.html

calimary

(81,220 posts)
54. It was a secret she took with her to her grave. Nobody could have guessed.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:01 PM
Apr 2015

I came as a profound shock initially. They had absolutely no idea - never would have dreamed that this was part of their mother's life. And they all worshipped her - and still do. They've told me it's a shame she wasn't still around because they know I would love her, too. But it was a shock. They shared, later on, that it really took some effort to wrap their brains around this idea. Nobody blamed ME for this upheaval. After the initial jolt for them, we spent two years talking and e-mailing and exchanging Christmas presents and birthday cards and stuff. Then I finally decided to venture back there to meet them - at THEIR suggestion. They're the ones who broached that subject. And I made that clear from the beginning. There was NO way on earth I intended to force myself on anybody, especially if it might cause unexpected turmoil. Seriously, all I wanted to find out was what my biological heritage was. Especially after I had kids. I felt a sense of responsibility to them to provide them with their own biological heritage. But I wasn't going to ask to meet them unless they said they were willing or interested in meeting me.

Anyway, it turns out they're just a bunch of really nice, warm, generous, inclusive people! Bunch of regular guys and gals. Friendly, loving, authentic, a close family, too - unlike the one I grew up in. THAT was something else I was totally not used to! Oddly enough, both my husband's family and mine included key individuals who were - um, shall we just say extremely um - "challenging" to be around. I once overheard our daughter commenting blithely to a friend about how in her family, nobody's speaking to each other. Sigh... I heard that and realized - shit, she's right! But that was what our kids grew up with, so as they meet and get to know families that are close, it's a whole new revelation! Same for me. I wasn't used to having siblings, even! Was brought up as an only child. We never even lived in a neighborhood that had kids running around. So I felt rather isolated. Wasn't good or bad - just how things were.

REALLY was an eruption in MY world! Like a volcano went off! Really amazed me! They kept saying - "mmm-hmmmm. Yeah, that sounds like her." "Yeah, that sounds like her mom, our grandmother." But I didn't attempt to meet them until they brought it up first. I never wanted to intrude. Even though I don't support those old shames and taboos, I still understand that they exist, and that they're VERY powerful. I already had a sense of that in just reviewing the lives of my adoptive parents. Mom was beaten and abused by her dad - all her siblings felt his wrath. And you just didn't speak about it, even when asked about it. Dad's dad ran off while he was a toddler, and his mom had to raise the kids alone. And she was gone a lot. Crazy family I was adopted into.

And my adoptive mom and dad never hid that from me. They never claimed I was theirs biologically. They never talked about "when Mommy was expecting you..." or anything like that. I was a chosen one, if you will. It kinda bent my whole idea of where babies come from, at least when I was really young. I thought when you were going to be parents, you went to the baby store and picked one out! That, I suppose, sprang from what I was frequently told - "... out of all the babies we could have picked, We Picked YOU!!!!!!"

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
20. I support adoptees rights to know their birth heritage, health history, ancestry, etc.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:29 PM
Apr 2015
Happy Happy Birthday, me b zola!

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
21. You raise a very important issue.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:57 PM
Apr 2015

Someone who married into my family never met his father. This family member was born in 1940 in Germany to a German-speaking mother and a Jewish father. His father survived the war, but my relative's parents were separated by the Iron Curtain after the war. Not until he was a teenager was my family member told about the facts of his birth.

The aching sense of loss of a child who does not know and can never meet his/her natural parents is deep. It is painful. It imposes a terrible burden on many children. Some are not affected by it at all. But many are. There are so many unanswered questions. Who am "I" really? What did "I" miss?

My advice: Get your DNA tested. Get it done properly. Go on one of these web sites that matches the DNAs of people. You MAY but will not definitely find some relatives.

My sister had her DNA, another sister's DNA and my mother's DNA tested.

Believe it or not, we were able to resolve a mystery that occurred in the early 19th century.

One of our male ancestors married one of our female ancestors when he was quite elderly. The male ancestor died, and after his death, his children by his first marriage refused to share the inheritance with our line of ancestors claiming their father was too old to have fathered our ancestor. Well, the DNA proves that we are related to the genetic line of that old man. Mystery solved.

If you want to find your missing family, you might get some leads from your DNA. There is no guarantee because your missing family would have to be looking for family members or other DNA information.

Good luck. It's just a possible way to find family. It may not work. Don't get your hopes up too high.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
26. I am a birth mother
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:34 PM
Apr 2015

who gave a child up for adoption in 1966. It wasn't MY decision to have the records sealed and kept secret, it's just how things were done in those days. The papers I had to sign were terrible, stating that the father was unknown (he wasn't) and that I was "abandoning" the child. I had to promise not to interfere in any way with the adoption going forward and not to make any efforts to find out who the adoptive parents were, where they lived or anything else.

Young girls in this situation are not to blame for archaic laws.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
62. Oh Blue!
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 07:35 PM
Apr 2015

First, thank you for opening up, I know the forces that mothers of relinquishment face in even talking about it. I hope that you do not in any way believe that I am blaming my mother, I knew even as a young child that she was "not allowed" to keep me. I have written several posts here on DU about the Baby Scoop Era (c.1940-c.1980) where women in the US were forced to relinquish their children. I am so very sorry for your loss, and the manner in which you were treated. My mother was treated in a very similar manner and it is unforgivable.

My posts about adoptee and first mother issues here, though, have been panned as people tend to read into them what they want to see. I chose for this b-day to simply write about the contract that is imposed upon adoptees without their permission. I know better than many how far too many women do not enter into this contract willingly. But for this b-day I chose to write about the indecency of a person having a legal contract affect them for their entire life even though they had no say in it.

I hope that you know that I meant you no harm. I hope that you know that I care.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
63. Oh, of course. I took nothing of what you said personally.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 08:25 PM
Apr 2015

I was just commenting on the other side of the equation. I can certainly understand your frustration, and hope that my son, wherever he may be, is not suffering similarly. I am not hiding, although I haven't registered with any adoptee websites.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
64. I remember you once wrote that you had daughters. Have either of them
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:42 PM
Apr 2015

ever expressed an interest in meeting their biological brother?

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
65. I have three daughters.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:57 PM
Apr 2015

They have not said anything to me about it. Quite honestly, I'm not sure if we've discussed the subject. They know a lot about my history, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned this particular phase of my life to at least one of them, but it's not something we discuss much. They are 42, 37 and 29 and all but the youngest live out of state.

meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
28. Both of our kids...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:36 PM
Apr 2015

24 and 22, have their birth records. Very thorough, listing birth parents.

My son showed some curiosity when he was younger. My daughter has shown no interest.

At the time of their adoptions we indicated that if the birth parents would like to meet us it would be fine. We received no response in either case. They're entitled to their privacy. If my kids want to try to make contact, they have the information.

I hope that you're able to get the information you seek. Can your parents help you narrow down the search?

Best of luck.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
44. Thank you for your response. I am very happy that both of your children have their records
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 06:35 PM
Apr 2015

This is the meat of my OP. All People are entitled to their own personal records.

I have been in reunion with both sides of my natural family, I am still not able under California law to access my own birth documents.

I think that this is what trips some people up. They believe that our documents (and access to them) is synonymous with reunion. Well, no. I am in reunion but not entitled to my documents. Others want their documents but do not seek reunion. Still others seek their documents to assist in reunion. The plain and simple fact is that why we demand our documents is no one's business but our own; they are our own personal history and should be given the same respect as any reader of this post is given to their own personal information. What an adoptee does with their own information is as private as what anon poster does with their own information. To believe that we need to explain to complete strangers what we mean to do with our own information is exactly not helpful. Maybe I am being too tactful. I don't know.

I hope that you can and will support all human beings right to their own birth information.

meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
29. Maybe I missed something.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:40 PM
Apr 2015

Your OP says that you're "in reunion" with both sides of your family.

Is that your birth family?

If so, don't they have the documents?

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
34. When an adoption happens the state seals the original birth certificate and replaces it with
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:03 PM
Apr 2015

an "amended" birth certificate. The new document acts as if the child was born to the adoptive parents, even if they were nowhere near the place the adoptee was born at the time they were entering the world. The phrase they use is "as if born to."

Some people today manage to get a birth certificate, and hold onto it, in the first few days of the child's life. But back in the 1960s--the Baby Scoop Era--that was exceedingly rare. Usually they just extracted the signature from a drugged up mother and took off with the baby, telling the first mom to move on with her life and forget her own child.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
48. Thanks for the info about the amended certificate.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 07:13 PM
Apr 2015

I was wondering how that worked with the legal demands needed for "birth" certificates these days.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
39. Yes, I am in reunion with both sides of my natural family
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:38 PM
Apr 2015

I was born in the state of California and even if I went to court with my natural mother and father in tow, the court would still deny me my records be released to me. This is how outlandish adoption laws are. My records are so sealed that the three of us together cannot gain access.


My OP asserts that every human being is entitled to their own birth documents. Most states do not extend this civil right to adoptees, and the many that do do so with provisions that are humiliating and defeating to the cause of civil rights. No one should have the right to deny me my own documents for whatever reason. Those documents should belong to me, just as they belong to non-adopted people.

meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
46. Agreed.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 07:01 PM
Apr 2015

Our kids were born in Peru and Guatemala.

Among the reasons we decided on this route was the closed, secret and bureaucratic mess we encountered in New York.

Even in Guatemala the U.S. Consul General placed roadblocks in our path because he did not approve of trans-racial adoptions.

I did some research recently and discovered documents detailing my father's birth (he was adopted at age four) as well as my grandparents birth records from Italy, dating back to 1894, and their immigration records from Ellis Island in 1921.

God bless you. Keep up the fight! I know you will prevail.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
31. Happy Birthday, Me B Zola. I actually had thought of you a couple days ago. There was an article
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:56 PM
Apr 2015

in the Washington Post that I thought might interest you. A mother of a young pregnant woman was asking for advice about what her daughter should do when confronted with an unplanned pregnancy. Many people from the adoption reform community have been commenting.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/style/wp/2015/04/10/hax-philes-helping-a-daughter-make-the-adoption-decision/

I hope your reunion with your mom is still going well. And I hope that someday you can get the record of your birth that you are rightfully entitled to.

citizen blues

(570 posts)
33. Know the Laws!!!!!
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:59 PM
Apr 2015

The poster is 52 years old. I'm an adopted, 51 year old woman. What you need to understand is that at the time we were born:

IF AN UNWED MOTHER WAS UNDER THE AGE OF 18, SHE HAD NO PARENTAL RIGHTS!

That's right. At the time I was born, my mother was 16 and put in an unwed mother's home. My grandmother was the one who dictated whether I was kept or surrendered. So my mother was also forced into a contract that affected the rest of her life with no say so. Teen mothers were not granted parental rights until the 70's.

I found my mother when I was 19 and was very lucky to begin a wonderful relationship with her. One of the pieces of my history that was kept out of all of my records and hidden from me is the fact that I am a fraternal twin. My brother was stillborn. When I found out and told a good friend of mine, her immediate response was, "That's why you've always felt alone." That hit home - hard. And all those years later, I found myself grieving a brother I never even knew I had.

The girls in the unwed mother's home at the time I was born (1964) constantly played The Beattles. My mother came to associate that music with that time in her life and with losing me. She never again could listen to The Beattles. Mothers don't forget.

It's time to end the secrecy.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
36. Exactly. Mothers don't forget. And they never asked to be "protected" from their children.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:14 PM
Apr 2015

Sealed records were initiated by the adoption industry, with the goal being to protect the adoptive parents.

We can thank a serial killer named Georgia Tann for the secrecy and the sealing of original birth certificates. That psychopath was the mother of our modern system of adoption in the United States.

DawgHouse

(4,019 posts)
37. My goodness!
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:19 PM
Apr 2015

First of all, Happy Birthday to you.

Second, thank you so much for sharing your story. I believe everyone has the right to know their ancestry.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
66. Your permission was impossible to obtain at the time
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:05 PM
Apr 2015

I think they sealed records then so the birth mother had privacy about it.

Now in modern times, people are a lot more open, knowing they need genetic information for medical purposes.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
67. The sealing of birth records had nothing to do with a birth mother's privacy.
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 12:58 PM
Apr 2015

It was done at the behest of the adoption industry to protect adoptive parents who didn't want their children's real mother to come looking for them.

Birth mothers never asked for privacy or to be protected from their own children. Most of them didn't even want to give the baby up, but our society at the time gave them little choice.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
68. I agree the society then gave little choice
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 03:33 PM
Apr 2015

But it would be different in each case. I had heard of birth mothers who did not want to be found. There are some - though now that's not a great idea as the medical information would not be something they'd want the child unable to know.

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