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Fri May 1, 2015, 05:06 AM

Donta Allen - man in police van with Mr Gray refutes WaPo story

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/30/donta-allen-freddie-gray-_n_7186288.html


Gray was already in the van when cops arrested Allen on stealing accusations. Because of a barrier dividing the rear of the police van into two sections, Allen didn't see Gray and initially didn't realize that there was another passenger inside the vehicle.

"There's no place where a man can hurt himself in there," Allen said.

The Washington Post story that cited the police document immediately came under attack by other reporters, such as WBAL's Jayna Miller, who has reported Gray was unresponsive when police locked him inside the van.

Allen on Thursday distanced himself from what investigators say he told them.

"I told homicide that. I don't work for the police," he said in the WBAL interview. "I did not tell the police nothing."


So those who believed him yesterday - do you believe him today?



ETA - Grassy Knoll posted a direct link to WBAL in the Video forum- http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017262775

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Reply Donta Allen - man in police van with Mr Gray refutes WaPo story (Original post)
JustAnotherGen May 2015 OP
Scurrilous May 2015 #1
jberryhill May 2015 #2
ET Awful May 2015 #3
JustAnotherGen May 2015 #5
nc4bo May 2015 #12
JustAnotherGen May 2015 #16
nc4bo May 2015 #17
jberryhill May 2015 #15
JustAnotherGen May 2015 #4
gollygee May 2015 #7
Stellar May 2015 #13
jberryhill May 2015 #14
Calista241 May 2015 #6
blackspade May 2015 #8
ET Awful May 2015 #9
JustAnotherGen May 2015 #10
Downwinder May 2015 #11

Response to JustAnotherGen (Original post)

Fri May 1, 2015, 06:32 AM

1. Didn't the WaPo get sold to the darkside?

I think I saw a pic somewhere of the new editor offering sacrifices to and prostrating himself before a statue of the Reagan reich deity.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Original post)

Fri May 1, 2015, 07:40 AM

2. Do you believe him today?


Well, gee, let's take this quote:


"I told homicide that. I don't work for the police," he said in the WBAL interview. "I did not tell the police nothing."


One question that you might ask is "Do you believe his first sentence or his third sentence?"

Having watched his interview on MSNBC, it strikes me that Mr. Allen is a very animated and engaging speaker. He speaks very quickly and with great enthusiasm.

Logical consistency in what he says from moment to moment is not his strong suit.

He cannot have "told homicide that" and also "not tell the police nothing". Those two statements directly contradict each other and were made within moments of each other.

You tell me - did he talk to the police or not? Pretty simple question, and he gives two different answers to that question in the same breath.

Now, sure, some people aren't careful speakers. He may simply mean that he spoke to the homicide detectives investigating what happened to Mr. Gray, but that he didn't speak to the police who were involved directly in the incident.

He's a very poetic speaker, but that kind of thing runs into problems when it is dissected for the purpose of establishing simple facts like "did he talk to the police?" when his style of speaking needs interpretation to figure out wtf he is trying to say.

But, really, which sentence out of the three quoted here do you believe? The first one or the third one?

It's entirely possible he said all kinds of things that were cherry picked for the report, given that it is possible with the short quote here to come up with two contradictory answers to a pretty simple question.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Fri May 1, 2015, 07:46 AM

3. The two sentences don't necessarily have to contradict each other

Consider this sequence of events:

1. The officers involved that night with whatever happened to Mr. Gray say "Mr. Allen told us he thought this."
2. Mr. Allen didn't say that to those officers.
3. When homicide investigators asked him if he'd said those things, Mr. Allen said "No, I didn't say that to the police."

It is entirely possible for the paragraph you stated to be true in it's entirety.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #3)

Fri May 1, 2015, 07:50 AM

5. "I don't work for the police"

I think that's a very significant sentence. He's making clear - he's not covering for them. Or doing anything to make their job easy.

He probably realizes that "there but for the grace of God when I". Who knows? I'll wait for the book or the movie to come out.

But I'm thinking it - it could have been Mr. Allen or Mr. Gray. He was the lucky one.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #5)

Fri May 1, 2015, 08:30 AM

12. Isn't a homicide unit separate from the city police force?

Aren't they detectives? Maybe he felt safer speaking to detectives than to city cops?


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Response to nc4bo (Reply #12)

Fri May 1, 2015, 10:13 AM

16. I don't know how it works there

I know this - I believe he's telling the truth - and when you listen to him/see him -

It's very apparent.

He is pissed - and rightly so that words were put into his mouth. He doesn't know how to 'express' it for the masses - but I can hear him clear as a bell!

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #16)

Fri May 1, 2015, 10:17 AM

17. Oh yes, I have several bro in laws who talk like this..

I'll tell you what, I believe him more than I believe anything the murderers say!

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #3)

Fri May 1, 2015, 08:50 AM

15. Yes, that's what I said...


So, in considering a police report that says "He said X", you have to take into account that whatever he is reported to have said may be a snippet based on something he said, because this guy has an effusive speaking style.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Fri May 1, 2015, 07:47 AM

4. Yesterday - I reserved judgment

I did not go with the idea that someone could break their own neck due to Mental issues or being hopped up on something in the back of a van. I didn't 'guess'. I didn't just make stuff up so I could cope with the concept of police brutality.

Here's what I think today: Note - I'm not talking about DU so let's just put a stop to that 'outrage' right this minute.

There is an element in America that would have believed him yesterday - and did - because the police said so.
They ignored the fact that he was ALSO under arrest and may have a mental health issue or be hopped up on something.

Today - those same people will disregard it all - regardless of which sentence because . . .


See - you and I see an animated speaker. He's passionate. He's going with gut statements. He's not measured and there is no 'Attorney/Spokesman' standing beside him.

But there is an element in America that sees 'one thing', a 'second thing', and hears his dialect.

I'm on MIR and they have been coming out of the woodwork here for the past week.

Same people that in their addled little minds gave George Zimmerman a badge and authority - will discount anything and everything this man says because he's going up against people with an actual badge and authority.

That's what think.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #4)

Fri May 1, 2015, 07:59 AM

7. +1000

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #4)

Fri May 1, 2015, 08:47 AM

13. HEAR, HEAR!!!

btw: did you see this report on Lawrence O'Connell's show MSNBC Wednesday? He interviewed this woman from a TV news broadcast in Maryland. She saying the report that WaPo reported on was inconsistent with the information she has. Take a listen.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/what-really-happened-in-the-police-van--436759107717

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #4)

Fri May 1, 2015, 08:48 AM

14. Well said

It's a problem across the board in how the press and others treat "things people said".

I really enjoyed watching him speak, since he is very expressive in a way that a black and white transcript of his words does not convey.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Original post)

Fri May 1, 2015, 07:57 AM

6. I'm not surprised.

He was quarantined after the death, and likely taken to an interview room without knowing this was going to become a national story.

So he gets out, and finds out he was in the van with this huge national story, and literally everyone wants to talk to him.

I don't find it that difficult to believe his story might change.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Original post)

Fri May 1, 2015, 08:02 AM

8. The cop story holds no water.

Hanging it on this guy to make it plausible just backfired.....

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Response to blackspade (Reply #8)

Fri May 1, 2015, 08:07 AM

9. Especially considering the undisclosed stop that occurred before this 2nd guy was picked up.

But. . . just for arguments sake, let's say this guy DID hear Grey making noises as if he were banging around, etc.

Has anyone ever seen the way an animal reacts due to a spinal injury (unfortunately, I have). In many cases, they thrash around as they lose muscle control due to the injury. I see no reason a human would be any different.

If they police did something to Grey at that undisclosed stop that caused the injury which then resulted in him going into involuntary muscle spasms, it's entirely possible that Allen DID hear something, that being the involuntary thrashing around associated with such an injury.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #8)

Fri May 1, 2015, 08:09 AM

10. I hope so blackspade and more important

I hope he (Mr. Allen) survives this. I don't trust the criminal justice/law enforcement community in Baltimore right now. I just don't. Now we hear they arrested the man that filmed Mr. Gray's arrest?

C'mon!

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Original post)

Fri May 1, 2015, 08:29 AM

11. Has he ever lied to me? I don't know.

Has The Washington Post ever lied to me? Yes.

Has the PD ever lied to me? Yes.

So far he is more credible.

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