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Mon May 18, 2015, 05:47 AM

 

The Trojan Horse President


"....Or is he what many of us have feared he is for a while now: a Trojan Horse president, presented at the gates as a progressive gift? Once let in, however, an army of Third-Way "Democrats," multinational corporations, insurance companies, banks and Wall Street masters-of-the-universe were unleashed to wreak havoc, again...."



By William Rivers Pitt

I am not an economist, not even close, but Joseph Stiglitz is. Stiglitz is actually a Nobel Prize winning economist, former Chair of President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisers, and former chief economist for the World Bank. Joseph Stiglitz is positively terrified of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) deal being pushed rabidly by President Obama. Because he is, I am also frightened by what this "deal" portends.

Joseph Stiglitz

Fundamental to America's system of government is an impartial public judiciary, with legal standards built up over the decades, based on principles of transparency, precedent, and the opportunity to appeal unfavorable decisions. All of this is being set aside, as the new agreements call for private, non-transparent, and very expensive arbitration. Moreover, this arrangement is often rife with conflicts of interest; for example, arbitrators may be a "judge" in one case and an advocate in a related case.

If there ever was a one-sided dispute-resolution mechanism that violates basic principles, this is it. That is why I joined leading U.S. legal experts, including from Harvard, Yale, and Berkeley, in writing a letter to President Barack Obama explaining how damaging to our system of justice these agreements are.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-secret-corporate-takeover-hidden-in-the-tpp-2015-05-13?page=2


At the core of this Nobel Laureate's argument against the TPP deal is the simple fact that legal authority - basic, bedrock legal authority - would be transferred from the sovereign courts of the United States to multinational corporations if this "deal" comes to pass. Note well, also, this statement from Stiglitz: "Though corporations can bring suit, others cannot. If there is a violation of other commitments - on labor and environmental standards, for example - citizens, unions, and civil-society groups have no recourse."

That is utterly intolerable, and it's what the president wants.

~snip~

The funny part came when President Obama dismissed Sen. Warren as just another politician as a means of defusing her criticism. Richard Nixon said, "I am not a crook" while staring into a camera. He was in fact a crook, and President Obama is in fact a politician. A consummate one, if truth be told. Of course Sen. Warren is a politician, but she is endeavoring to do what the president is not: represent the people. The president, for his part, is actively representing the corporations that actually are allowed to read the details of this deal, while the rest of us are not.

~snip~

Stiglitz, Warren, Sanders ... and they are not alone. A very interesting left-right coalition is coalescing around opposition to this mysterious, dangerous, perilous trade deal. The real mystery, however, is why President Obama - in his final years in office - would staple himself to such a divisive and damaging initiative. He has the opportunity to focus on infrastructure repair, an example made vivid by the recent rail calamity in Philadelphia. He could lean into pushing the ACA in Red states that still resist it. Hell, he could go wild and push for what they've done with solar power in Germany, panels right down the sides of the highways, free and open space to do all that green stuff he's been yapping about while approving oil drilling in the Arctic and the Atlantic Ocean.

But no, it's this terrible thing he has chosen for his "legacy."




cont'

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/30815-the-trojan-horse-president

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:13 AM

1. Yes, we know.. President Obama is a "fucking pos used car salesman" and now

he's a "Trojan horse". Never mind all the good he has done because that would mess with your agenda and that of those who rec this kind of shite.."If President Obama declared that all firstborns be put to the sword... "

Rolling Stone: Obama Is One Of The 'Most Successful Presidents In History' - Krugman Tells Why



"His health reform is imperfect but still a huge step forward – and it’s working better than anyone expected. Financial reform fell far short of what should have happened, but it’s much more effective than you’d think. Economic management has been half-crippled by Republican obstruction, but has nonetheless been much better than in other advanced countries. And environmental policy is starting to look like it could be a major legacy."

More important, however, polls – or even elections – are not the measure of a president. High office shouldn’t be about putting points on the electoral scoreboard, it should be about changing the country for the better. Has Obama done that? Do his achievements look likely to endure? The answer to both questions is yes."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/12/1336103/-Rolling-Stone-Calls-Obama-Most-Successful-President-In-History-Krugman-Reiterates-In-New-VIDEO

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:25 AM

2. But, Stiglitz!

Krugman also opposes TPP but doesn't think it's a job killer and predicted that the reaction to it (as with all trade deals) would be overblown.

Of course, "overblown," drives website traffic among other things, so we get sterling, spittle-flecked "analysis" such as this.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #2)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:31 AM

5. Krugman: Suspicious Nonsense on Trade Agreements

 


I am in general a free trader; there is, I’d argue, a tendency on the part of some people with whom I agree on many issues to demonize trade agreements, to make them responsible for evils that have other causes. And my take on both of the trade agreements currently under negotiation — Pacific and Atlantic — is that there’s much less there than meets the eye.

But my hackles and suspicions rise when I listen to the advocates.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/suspicious-nonsense-on-trade-agreements/

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Response to Wilms (Reply #5)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:27 PM

185. Krugman was also a big cheer leader for NAFTA.

He blew it then.
If he supports the TPP or TTIP, then he's blowing it again....Big Time.
I thought he was smart enough not to make the same mistakes twice.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #2)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:37 AM

9. Yes, "Stiglitz".. likes to throw around terms like "nasty" when talking about the President.. only

he's projecting.

"Of course, "overblown," drives website traffic among other things, so we get sterling, spittle-flecked "analysis" such as this."

Mahalo BG.. Yes, we've seen all before.. Obama is a one man economy booster on both ends of the spectrum.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #2)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:03 AM

86. But, Penny Pritzker!

One can say she's a "Bankster!" or one can say she's in "Finance." Neither does much for me, an old Democrat here in Detroit.



An Interview with Tim Anderson on Obama's Commerce Nominee, Penny Pritzker, the Sub-Prime Queen

The Privilege of the Pritzkers

by DENNIS BERNSTEIN
CounterPunch, May 3-5, 2013

EXCERPT...

TA: $38 billion. One publication listed eight casinos, another listed 13, with each license worth a half a million dollars. There is another $5-7 billion in casinos. When you own 13 casinos for 5-7 billion, you are a player in the casino business. That’s just the hotels and casinos. There are many other companies they own such as the second largest chewing tobacco company, which they sold for 3.5 billion dollars. They actually owned the second and third largest chewing tobacco company, but have since off-loaded those for billions of dollars. Many of their assets are not what society considers clean assets, but hey don’t care. As far as money goes, they want it. When it comes to casinos or chewing tobacco companies, they don’t care. Their wealth is almost incalculable, because according to Forbes magazine, they are the only family in America to have off shore tax-free trusts because they were grandfathered in. Their off shore trust can ship money back to their family tax-free. It was grandfathered in because their grandfather got it through Congress – he was smart to see the future and got it done. Congress closed the loophole and grandfathered him in. Forbesmagazine wrote about the Pritzker’s off shore trust, they emphasized that there are over 1000 separate trusts. Many families have two or three different savings accounts to keep track of what money belongs to who, but when you have over 1000 different trusts to handle the family estate it’s very hard to comprehend how much wealth there is and how many businesses they control. A few years ago, Penny sold TransUnion, the largest credit reporting agency in America, but there’s a question about whether she sold it to herself by selling it to various hedge funds which her family has a large interest in. Until she sold it, you could say that Penny Pritzker had more files on every citizen in America than the CIA and FBI combined, because everybody has a credit score and credit report. Penny Pritzker had the credit scores and report on every single citizen in America.

SNIP...

TA: She had TransUnion while she had Superior Bank, so she controlled the credit scores of everybody who was getting a subprime loan. You pay a higher interest on your subprime loan based on your credit score. Whether or not it was ever brokered between the credit bureau and the bank, we don’t know, but we know the same people control both entities.

SNIP...

TA: Superior Bank was acquired back in 1989 as part of the original savings and loan giveaway by M, D and E Wall. As I wrote a in a paper for an economic conference in Denver, Superior Bank was sold to the Pritzkers for 42.5 million dollars. They changed the name from Lion Savings and Loan to Superior Bank after they acquired it. Lion Savings and Loan was sold to the Pritzkers just to put up money for the capital. But as government reports show, they only put up a million dollars cash and pledged their assets as the difference, the capital. That’s not supposed to be done, but they are privileged people so they get privileged deals. After they acquired this for $1 million they also got $640 million in tax credits.

SNIP...

TA: The tax credits were designed so they could use it in any entity they wanted. They didn’t have to use it on what they bought. It could be sold on the open market for value, the credits could be used to file back taxes or warehouse them for future taxes. So for a million dollars, they got 640 million dollars for agreeing to take over Superior Bank, which they then looted for years then gave it back to the government with an enormous loss to the uninsured depositors and the whole subprime industry.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/05/03/the-privilege-of-the-pritzkers/

PS: I don't have anything against Ms. Pritzker or rich people, per se. I'd just like to see the Democratic Party and Washington DC return to helping the People rather than Wall Street. For a change.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #86)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:57 PM

162. Just one of the people he appointed

he started with those questionable appointments just as soon as he was elected. Banksters and corporate shills.

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Response to arikara (Reply #162)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:18 PM

212. It is amazing. When money's involved, he goes Wall Street every time.

From the Inspector General for TARP, who noted why, for the non-paupers in spirit, a pot of gold awaits...





Neil Barofsky Gave Us The Best Explanation For Washington's Dysfunction We've Ever Heard

Linette Lopez
Business Insider, Aug. 1, 2012, 2:57 PM

Neil Barofsky was the Inspector General for TARP, and just wrote a book about his time in D.C. called Bailout: An Insider Account of How Washington Abandoned Main Street While Rescuing Wall Street.

SNIP...

Bottom line: Barofsky said the incentive structure in our nation's capitol is all wrong. There's a revolving door between bureaucrats in Washington and Wall Street banks, and politicians just want to keep their jobs.

For regulators it's something like this:

"You can play ball and good things can happen to you get a big pot of gold at the end of the Wall Street rainbow or you can do your job be aggressive and face personal ruin...We really need to rethink how we govern and how regulate," Barofsky said.


CONTINUED... http://www.businessinsider.com/neil-barofsky-2012-8



"Integrity is for paupers." -- traditional saying, Wall Street-on-the-Potomac

OTOH, there are appointments which are pure genius, such as appointing JFK's daughter to Tokyo, about 100 miles from Fukushima. They both are brave, although for different reasons, of course.

PSSSST! Wall Street Pays Bankers to Work in Government and It Doesn't Want Anyone to Know

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Response to arikara (Reply #162)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:24 PM

274. It was just in finance

 

there were neo-con holdovers in the State Department and Defense as well - i.e., Victoria Nuland, a former advisor to Dick Cheney (only an undergraduate degree btw) has run the NATO show as well as that in Ukraine - then there's SECDEF Robert Gates...to name but a few....

Trojan Horse - Tony Blair was equally damaging to Labour Party - served 1997-2007. Defined himself as 'New Labour' and split with the normally socialist tilt of the Labour Party..Supported the wars in Afghanistan (2001) and Iraq (2003) against strong opposition from his constituents. Maintained Margaret Thatcher's anti trade union legislation. The left wing of the Laobur Party, led by Tony Benn (1925-14) has not recovered.

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:27 AM

3. Interestingly, you didn't once address TPP.....

.....Ok, back to your blind worshiping of Obama the great and powerful....

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Response to paleotn (Reply #3)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:32 AM

6. Sure she did, by pointing out that Pitt believes Obama is a POS.

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 07:11 AM - Edit history (1)

That should make one question the entire blog.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:43 AM

16. Hey Aloha, Hoyt.. I's a she.. :) It comes down to this..

President Obama has earned my trust over the years.. those who write hate-filled
"pos".. none at all.

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Response to Cha (Reply #16)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:45 AM

17. I'll do my best to remember, tough these days.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #17)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:48 AM

23. that's okay.. a lot of peeps around here. And, yeah, it is kinda tough

to remember Every single thing!

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Response to Cha (Reply #16)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:34 PM

192. Of course, he (Will Pitt) didn't call Obama a POS . . .

 

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)

That's a classic example of the straw man fallacy, distort Will Pitt's argument and attack the distortion instead of the real argument.

The real argument is this: the TPP is a POS. So why is Obama in a death-match to pass it?

It doesn't make sense and is not consistent with Candidate Obama's positions.

So, Trojan horse president is a very good analogy imho.

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Response to Damansarajaya (Reply #192)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:05 PM

204. Actually, the author of the article in the OP DID call the President...

a "piece of shit used car salesman" in another piece he wrote here. Cha was correct.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #204)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:41 PM

247. I was referring to Will Pitt, the actual author of the piece.

 

Not the poster who posted it here.

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Response to Damansarajaya (Reply #247)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:53 PM

253. It was Will Pitt calling the President...

a "piece of shit used car salesman" in a previous writing. I made that abundantly clear by stating "the author of the article in the OP". You have been provided a link in post #210, you might want to peruse it. Mr. Pitt deleted his screed, belatedly, but reading the thread will give you quotes of his 'work'.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #253)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:11 PM

301. Mahalo, Spazito, for clueing the poster in.

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Response to Damansarajaya (Reply #192)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:12 PM

210. Sure he did

 

You might have missed it since he went back and deleted it but here is his thread just the same. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964#post9

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Response to Egnever (Reply #210)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:42 PM

248. Will Pitt called Obama a POS?! Surely, he didn't.

 

I'm not that concerned with an anonymous poster on a big discussion board.

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Response to Damansarajaya (Reply #248)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:08 PM

263. Yes, Will Pitt's exact quote was...

"Fuck you, Mr. President, you piece of shit used-car salesman. From my heart and soul, fuck you."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #263)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:22 PM

272. Sorry, all I see is a self-deleted post. nt

 

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Response to Damansarajaya (Reply #272)

Wed May 27, 2015, 08:38 PM

397. Oh he said it alright. LOTS of us saw it. n/t

 

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #263)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:42 PM

283. Isn't it the used car that is being so derogated there?

 

I mean, if you omit used-car for a moment, then what is he selling?

--imm

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Response to Damansarajaya (Reply #192)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:15 PM

328. Hahahahaha. Sorry, WP said exactly that, and his trenchant analysis got hundreds of replies.

I'm surprised he self-deleted -- he was quite proud of it, and the OP survived a couple of Alerts.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:45 PM

157. Exactly!

Pure BS all the way, it speaks volumes about the actual agenda of the Author.

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #157)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:44 PM

249. What's the BS? Go ahead. We'll wait . . . nt

 

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Response to paleotn (Reply #3)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:58 AM

35. Who do you support?

Anything positive about anyone? I'd like to know who you support not just who you would tear down?

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Response to treestar (Reply #35)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:59 AM

36. Likely Warren, but I'd like to know too...

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Response to paleotn (Reply #3)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:44 PM

219. ...^ that

 

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Response to paleotn (Reply #3)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:07 PM

262. The TPP hasn't been finalized OR signed. Obama has been President for more than SIX years....

....did he spend the last six plus years doing NOTHING, just waiting for the TPP?????

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Response to George II (Reply #262)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:02 PM

287. +1,000

Last edited Tue May 19, 2015, 03:17 PM - Edit history (1)

I agree with you 1,000% (Sorry if I messed up the text that sounded like I was not agreeing with you)

Millions of people who would have died from no health care are now covered and receiving care.

From a high of 18% of Americans not having health insurance to a now low of 11% is what Obamacare has done.

To the OP and it's supporters - Perhaps you might want to think of all the people that are not dead or suffering because of the ACA before you open your mouth again about how bad a president Barack Obama has been. And you can add to that the ban he just enacted causing the pentagon from sending military guns and other war items to our police department.

And that is just the biggest thing. The list is very long of all the good things this president has done. For people to line up to get a bad word in is just bad Karma.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #287)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:06 AM

338. you might want to notice

that George II is actually agreeing with you, and asked a rhetorical question

before you write nasty things like "you might want to think ... before you open your mouth again".

I know it is easy to get carried away in the moshe pit of GD, but ...

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #338)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:23 PM

373. I put a +1,000 which means I liked what the person I was replying to said.

I made a mistake by not indicating who I was referencing when I told the person that they should keep their mouth shut if they don't know everything about the subject.

Thank you for pointing that out. I fixed the post and I'll pm the author.

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Response to paleotn (Reply #3)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:50 PM

326. Blind worshiping is an understatement.

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #326)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:15 PM

377. +1

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:29 AM

4. +1.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:34 AM

7. Republicans Love You

 

Doing their work for them...good job!!!!

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #7)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:36 AM

8. And Tbaggers agree with you.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #8)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:42 AM

14. Deflect Much?

 

You're ridiculous. You support TPP like most Republicans and a few Democrats. I point out that fact and you say Teabaggers support me? Please do explain. And please take the same time and diligence you do like when you make it your priority to persuade us TPP is just fine and we need to support it. If it won't have much effect then why do you constantly make it your #1 issue? Yeah I'm a Teabagger for being anti-corporate, anti-fascist left wing...that's a real winner you coined there.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #14)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:45 AM

18. The far left and the far right are closer than you think...

Think of the political spectrum as a circle, it's a pretty accurate representation.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #18)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:50 AM

26. There Is No Equivalence

 

There is no far left represented in politics. The far left would be extreme Marxism or groups like the Weather Underground. And that's just obfuscation to equate the far right with progressives. Typical corporate divide and conquer tactic. We have to speak and loudly here. Corporations have unlimited money to pay people to post their talking points and they do as part of their campaigns. Dismissing or diminishing progressives is the sin...not speaking up for average Americans.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #26)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:52 AM

28. I'm not dismissing progressives...

But you are wrong here there is a point where they meet... And the more polarization there is the closer they come to meeting.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:44 AM

118. Amen.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:41 AM

133. You're talking about extremists and the words 'left' 'right' do not apply to extremists. That word

alone is enough to describe irrational people.

I see nothing extreme about the American people simply asking for transparency about a huge piece of legislation that is going to affect their lives for generations.

THAT is a simple request. Yet, it is being denied.

So, WHY is this happening? Is every credible person, elected official, Union leader, dozens of advocacy organizations, are all of these people EXTREMISTS for questioning the Presidents behavior ie, attacking them all, including some of our best Democrats, over this?

What are all these people doing wrong by simply asking that a huge piece of legislation NOT by pushed into law without Congress having a chance to change anything in it that is harmful to the American people?

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:43 PM

198. A brief aside: What does it mean that they meet? In what sort of model can it be seen...

that left and right political principles/positions overlap as they become more representative of a left or right ideal? Or do I misunderstand the situation to which is being referred?

Many people talk of this sort of a convergence, but it does not seem to be more than a rhetorical construction. What do you think?



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Response to xocet (Reply #198)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:04 AM

363. The supposed "extreme" left, which is anyone left of Reagan,

in their view, does not agree with the extreme right. The idea that politics is a circle is only brought out to shut the left up. Notice they never try to shut the right up, only the left. In reality, the left and the right disagree on everything. It's the middle that shifts and changes to suit whatever they are in the mood for at the time. They can literally lick their finger, stick it in the air and see which way the wind is blowing, then follow it for popularity.

And for some odd reason, they are pushing the TPP like it is THE most important piece of legislation of Obama's entire presidency. They will steamroll over anyone who gets in their way too.

The truth is that the positions held by the left and the positions held by the right do not converge. They are the opposite.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #363)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:45 PM

374. Thanks for your comments. I agree that there is no convergence of values for left and right.

I had hoped that the above, current proponent of the circle doctrine would attempt to explain his/her internally inconsistent doctrine. However, this poster's doctrine turns out not to be externally consistent either:

In 18., the doctrine presents the political spectrum as a circle.
In 28., polarization drives the convergence.
In 122., the doctrine presents the political spectrum as a " big ole' " circle.
In 236., the doctrine changes to present the political spectrum as a horseshoe.


This seems to be equivalent to trolling the thread instead of discussing anything.

Oh well....





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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #26)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:24 PM

273. +1 You nailed it.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #18)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:37 AM

93. And the far right and the center are even closer.

Think of our political spectrum as literally being financed and controlled by corporate money.
Then imagine who does the most to increase the bottom line of corporations.
Congrats, you have just found the people most closely aligned with far right political ideology, or at the very least, those who do the most to bring it to fruition.

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Response to raouldukelives (Reply #93)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:16 PM

378. +1

 

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #18)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:01 AM

106. Few at DU are actually far left. And there is no reason to think of the political spectrum as a

circle, rather than as a continuum.

Criticizing Obama because he is too center right is not the same as criticizing him because he supposedly is a "socialist."

the left is right meme is both silly and transparent.


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Response to merrily (Reply #106)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:02 PM

142. I have met a few thoughtful Communists here, so farther left is represented a bit, however

They are not terribly numerous and tend to stay in their groups for the most part. Also, having met many different brands of Communists and Socialists IRL, the ones that post here are not what I would call extreme. The Idea that the extremes meet in a "circle" is absurd. Communist philosophy and fascist philosophy are not by any stretch similar, if the circular argument were valid, they would be, but in truth they are completely opposed in their views on Capital. The same could be said of the Authoritarian versus the libertarian extremes (and I am not referring to the US libertarian party, but in the broad sense)

People that claim the extremes meet in a circular fashion are not thinking very clearly.
At least, I can not follow the logic in any clear way if it could even be said to be based on any sort of logic.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #142)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:07 PM

143. Few indeed.

Thanks for a thoughtful post.

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Response to merrily (Reply #106)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:30 PM

278. What about the professional left?

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #278)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:44 AM

334. Even the left of the left of the Democratic Party is not that far left. Even the liberal r word

people are not that far left.

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Response to merrily (Reply #334)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:28 AM

349. I know.....

I actually believe in well regulated capitalism.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #349)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:35 AM

350. I think the vast majority of DUers do.

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Response to merrily (Reply #350)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:42 AM

353. We're not wild eyed commies! Mostly.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #278)

Wed May 20, 2015, 02:42 AM

382. Delayed reaction: Isn't the "professional left" anyone who makes money by being left?

And doesn't that include everyone at the WH? Not only people who make money as Democratic pundits, MSNBC anchors, etc?

This is like politicians on the right yelping about people sucking off the government teat while taking home a paycheck signed, often sacrificially, by John and Jane Q. Public.

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Response to merrily (Reply #382)

Wed May 20, 2015, 03:37 AM

387. I believe the first time I heard the term professional left was when the President

was being snarky toward Democrats for disagreeing with him on one thing or another. I cannot remember the issue now. Essentially the President was scolding someone on the left for being too left or not moderate (Republican) enough. IIRC.

Maybe it wasn't the President. It might have been Emanuel or one of the other snakes.

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Response to merrily (Reply #106)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:07 AM

364. Well, they see any of us who are left of Reagan as the "far left" or

"extreme" left. So, that gives you some idea why they claim what they claim. My question is why do they blindly believe in the TPP and want the rest of us to follow them like lemmings? If you debate them on it, it all comes down to "you never loved him" or "ponies" or "racist." In other words, they cannot stand that someone might ever disagree with Obama on even a single issue.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #364)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:13 AM

366. I have no explanation.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #18)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:13 AM

110. And the far right of the Democratic Party is far closer to Republicans in general than the far left.

So they don't have any room to talk. At this point in time, it's more like a line bent in half to a narrow angle. The ones in the middle are far closer together, but the ones at either end aren't as far apart as they would be if the line was straight.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #110)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:50 AM

122. It's a big ole' circle, I'll have to do an OP on this.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #122)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:34 PM

151. It really isn't.

The best representation I've seen is the two dimensional political spectrum, or political compass, which is continuous and does not wrap around in a circle. When the far left and far right appear to have common views, it is almost always in their libertarian views. Trade deals and foreign wars are very authoritarian, so you'll see a lot of common ground there, where Noam Chomsky sounds a lot like Ron Paul. All you have to do to see the differences between these two types is talk about nationalized health care, education, environment, regulation of Wall Street.

So, when it comes to TPP, Obama or Hillary Clinton will sound like most authoritarian Republicans, maybe indistinguishable, but on feminism, human rights, and such, they sound liberal. Warren and Sanders relative to them are libertarian and left.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #122)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:31 PM

279. It's nothing of the kind.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #122)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:56 AM

354. Two people attend the same lecture. One claims the lecture was far too long. The claims it was

far too short. Both are critics of the same lecture, yet the two critics are direct opposites when it comes to their views of the length of the lecture.

And, yes, the center right of the Democratic Party is far more like the political right than is the left of the Democratic Party.

What will happen with your OP: The same DUers who currently claim left is right will love it.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #122)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:09 AM

365. Well, that makes sense.

Circles do bend over backwards and spin better than straight lines. It fits with the "anyone who is left of Reagan is an extreme leftist" narrative.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #18)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:35 AM

132. What is good about the TPP? Why should we support it? That's all nearly every credible group, union

individual, Democrat and economist in the country wants to know.

And what we get from this president, is attacks on just about everyone who is asking for what the American people have a RIGHT to under our current system of government.

All he has to do to prove we should trust him and not all of those other people, is to allow the American people to see what it is that he is telling us is so great.

Until and unless he does this, his attacks on decent people, including our Reps in Congress who are doing their jobs on our behalf, then he can expect to be criticized like this. Because contrary to what he appears to believe, no, the American people are not stupid.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #132)

Wed May 20, 2015, 07:02 AM

392. I bookmarked this post when you wrote it.

I knew there would be crickets.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #18)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:36 PM

193. Completely wrong.

 

The TEA party stands for Taxed Enough Already. We progressives rightly see historically low taxation of the rich as a major reason the middle class is evaporating before our eyes.

"The extreme left and right are the same" is a mainstream media platitude so they can continue to tout the only position they're paid to care about--the corporate position.

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Response to Damansarajaya (Reply #193)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:20 PM

213. That isn't the only political issue, is it?

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #213)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:51 PM

252. No, there's also

 

gay marriage RW against LW for

higher taxes on corporations RW against LW for

public money for public schools only RW against LW for

equal pay for equal work RW against LW for

unions RW against LW for

policing the out of control police RW against LW for

more legal immigration RW against LW for

fair trade instead of free trade RW against LW for

more money for public education RW against LW for

less money for wasteful military spending RW against LW for

legalize pot RW against LW for

reduce number of people in prison RW against LW for

raise the minimum wage RW against LW for

women's choice for abortion rights RW against LW for

public funds to help the homeless RW against LW for

. . . . you're right, there are a few more . . . other than that, the right and left wing are just alike.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #18)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:13 PM

234. On what issues are the far left and the far right the same?

There may be a couple issues that a couple people agree on, but that is true across the entire political spectrum. As a group however, that doesn't hold true.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #236)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:06 PM

261. So now it's a horseshoe rather than a circle.

And the example given is... Korea.

OK. I'm convinced! We're Korea. *sarcasm*

A few years ago the Sierra Club had a bit of an internal crisis when many members were opposed to immigration from the south. They argued that because immigrants from Central and South America tended to have large families, these large families would do more damage to the environment simply by becoming high consuming Americans (since we are the world's leader in per capita environmental damage). Does that mean these Sierra Club members were aligned with the Minutemen Project? NO. Their motives and tactics are completely different. Some of them simply had one overlapping goal.



I prefer the political compass even though it lacks some finesse.





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Response to progressoid (Reply #261)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:05 AM

355. And a THEORY anyway. And the horseshoe theory has nothing to do with

both the right and the left end of the horsehoe criticizing the same person for different reasons, while the center thinks he can do no wrong.

Other than that....

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #18)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:26 PM

277. The Righties® always say that.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #14)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:46 AM

22. Tbaggers are against TPP too, ya know .

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #22)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:54 AM

30. BS

 

It's not even on their radar. But keep trying. If you haven't already I bet you could land a good job as a TPP lobbyist or PR director. But please entertain us with the links to the Tea Party movement against TPP. They definitely need an issue that's a winner and maybe they can steal it from Hillary and Jeb like they could with cannabis legalization as fools in our party let them.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #30)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:57 AM

33. Democrats working with Tea Party to defeat trade deal.

Rep. David Young, an Iowa Republican, was recently at a Des Moines event commemorating the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. when he was buttonholed by an activist urging him to vote against giving President Obama trade-promotion authority—aka fast track—to allow him to expedite a giant new Asia-Pacific trade deal, the issue where Obama and congressional GOP leaders seem most likely to come to agreement this year. The activist, Matthew Covington, urged Young to beware of the executive overreach that Obama would be engaging in if he secured fast-track powers. “I said, ‘This is such a large trade deal and the Constitution gives Congress the authority to regulate that, not the president. This would give the authority to the president. But we elected you to give you that authority, to see what’s in this trade deal, to make sure it doesn’t jeopardize Iowa values,’ ” recounted Covington.

That sounds like a garden-variety pitch from a grass-roots constitutional conservative. Except Covington is no Tea Partier. He is an organizer with a 40-year-old progressive organization called Iowa Citizens for Community Improvement that has made its name in recent years fighting factory farming, payday lending, and wage-theft; is closely tied to labor unions; and last year hosted Sen. Bernie Sanders, the Vermont socialist, for a barnstorming tour of Iowa. The organization, like many others on the left, is opposed to granting Obama fast-track authority, which requires Congress to vote on trade deals with an up or down vote, and to the huge new 12-nation trade deal, the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Covington worries that the TPP will undermine U.S. wages and manufacturing, as many Americans believe NAFTA did, while also giving multinational corporations new powers to run roughshod over U.S. food safety and environmental regulations.

To try to block fast track and the TPP, liberal groups and labor unions are not organizing only among their own but are also reaching across the spectrum to conservatives skeptical of fast track and TPP. This left-right alliance has been duly noted in recent months. What has gone underappreciated, though, is just how much the opponents of the trade deals on the left are appealing to the right very much on the right’s own terms. After years of ridiculing the Tea Party movement’s talk of Obama as an autocrat on issues such as immigration and health care, the left is now pushing those very buttons on trade, noting that fast track would give Obama vast powers and that the TPP would create a new international arbitration panel where corporations could challenge local, state, and national laws. Some left-leaning advocates are going so far as to link the trade issue to the conservative litany of Obama outrages: the IRS scrutiny of Tea Party groups, Benghazi, and the “Fast and Furious” gun-running fiasco, among others.



http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/02/democrats_working_with_tea_party_against_obama_s_trade_deal_the_president.html

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #33)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:04 AM

43. No One Named

 

Did you read the article? Democrats are looking for support among populists. But it names no one Tea Party politician who is against TPP. But it does say Rand Paul and Ted Cruz support it because their support for multinational corporations and no regulation trumps their constitutional concerns regarding sovereignty. So that's a poor link to post. As a caveat I will say I'm still against illegal wars and mass incarceration even if a Tea Partier agrees.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #43)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:06 AM

47. Okay another...

And I'm just using Google, so feel free to do some leg work as well...

Last week in this space, Bill Watson of the Cato Institute claimed that the Tea Party supported so-called free trade. It is always amusing to have people who are not a part of the Tea Party movement tell people who are in the Tea Party movement what the Tea Party movement believes and supports.

The Tea Party movement does not support the Trans-Pacific Partnership.


http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/198942-trade-and-the-tea-party-washington-insiders-remain

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #47)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:10 AM

128. HaHa.. thanks for using the goog! "The Tea Party movement does not support the TPP."

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #47)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:04 PM

164. Ok But Still No Reps Or Candidates Mentioned

 

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #33)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:59 PM

228. How about Democrats working with Mitch McConnell to pass the TPP n/t

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #228)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:25 PM

275. +1

Apparently that doesn't count.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #275)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:39 PM

280. It's not relevant.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #22)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:10 PM

320. some are because some of their talk radio gods are

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #22)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:10 AM

357. Most teabaggers eat food every day. Do YOU eat food every day?

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #7)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:39 AM

12. Seeing the truth is not their Job, and beating up critics won't get Her

 

Elected .

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:46 AM

21. Yeah, "republicons love you" Hoyt for not thinking President Obama is a Trojan Horse.. see

how that works?

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Response to Cha (Reply #21)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:53 AM

29. I'm pretty sure Hoyt voted for Bush.

Twice...

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #29)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:01 AM

39. yeah, republicons just love him.. he's their guy. :P

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Response to Cha (Reply #39)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:02 AM

41. I'm doing a cheer in my head...

Hoyt, Hoyt, he's our (man?)

Lol.

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Response to Cha (Reply #21)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:57 AM

34. I Said Nothing About Trojan Horses

 

I'm talking about TPP and I'm not blindly following Obama like Bush followers followed their hero. Think for yourself and question authority. If you can't do that then what good are you? This reminds me of the whole NSA debate. People who followed the facts instead of leaders were dismayed. Those whose allegiance was first and foremost to a personality scolded people to get in line and just accept the way things are.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #34)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:59 AM

37. Who do you blindly follow?

Elizabeth?

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Response to treestar (Reply #37)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:02 AM

40. LOL

treestar

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Response to Cha (Reply #40)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:06 AM

46. Wow...The Smug Anti-Warren Crowd Surfaces

 

Keep patting yourselves on the back. You deserve a "I Support TPP T-Shirt".

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #46)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:07 AM

48. I helped get Warren elected.

It's a legit question, who is going to not be a "trojan horse".

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #48)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:13 AM

57. Treestar Made Fun Of Warren

 

No one should be immune from satire but calling Warren's supporters blind followers? I would question her if she said or enacted anything foolish but I've yet to see it...at least since she saw the light a few years ago and decided to stick up for what's right instead of what will get her big speaker fees in the future.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #57)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:22 AM

65. Yeah you blindly follow anyone you support

We've put up with it for 7 years. It's your turn.

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Response to treestar (Reply #65)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:42 AM

134. +1!

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Response to treestar (Reply #65)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:11 PM

169. BS

 

And makes no sense. I actually look at facts and reality. You are the follower. And kind of sickening actually. As long as their is a D next to their name you will follow them no matter who Vichey or Bush beloving or torturous or surveilling or imprisoning they are. You have dragged our party to the center where many of them are no different than 1980s republicans. Fail.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #169)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:10 AM

356. You would defend Bernie if he ate cats

Elizabeth Warren could imprison small children and you'd actually defend her. Sickening.

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Response to treestar (Reply #65)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:58 PM

295. Odd. That's not what he said at all.

But don't let that stop you.

Or your cheerleader.

The body of your post made no sense what so ever.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #295)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:35 AM

341. yeah it did

it's based on past bad blood.

Myself, I flip-flopped in this long running war.

For the first two years, I tried to defend Obama from his attacks. And boy, did the Obama critics seem obnoxious. They didn't want to discuss rationally, they just wanted to poke people in the eye with a stick.

Then Obama crossed my Rubicon, and now I struggle to say something nice about him. And boy does it seem like the Obamabots are obnoxious.

Point is, a lot of people are being poked in the eyes with sticks. It's easy to notice when it is your eye, harder to notice when it is your allies poking other people in the eye.

The body of the text was making the point that for years here on DU critics of Obama have been calling supporters of Obama "blind cheerleaders" simply because they were supporters. Heck it started even in the primaries when the derisive term "Obamabot" was used by many Clinton supporters to talk about Obama supporters.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #341)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:10 PM

376. But it had nothing to do with the post they responded to and made no sense because of that.

If treestar's feelings are hurt because of the OP they should get a grip or stay out of the thread, but to make odd posts like that that don't follow any logic is sad and pathetic. You can't let emotions get the best of you. If you adore a politician so much that it hurts you to see criticism of them then you've gone way to far with your adoration. This is politics and Obama is a politician. And he's selling the people of the USA out and he lied to us about a lot of things.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #295)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:11 AM

358. Disgusting you would support Bernie

considering his gun votes. What blind adoration. You should be making posts condemning him for that. And saying its a deal breaker.

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Response to treestar (Reply #358)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:05 PM

375. Why should I make the posts you tell me to make?

Again, your post makes absolutely no sense.

Why are you even bringing any of that up? There is no logic to that or the post of yours that I initially responded to. If there is, please explain it to me. I'm not following.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #57)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:29 AM

72. Every politician or for that matter even Britney Spears...

Has blind followers, don't be offended by that term. It's just a fact.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #57)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:52 AM

100. What is the origin of this incredibly idiotic theory that Obama is making policy

 

decisions based on speaking fees in the future? Other than hatred of the President that is.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #100)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:11 PM

170. Referring To Clintons

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #100)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:00 PM

296. Yeah, seriously. I mean it couldn't possibly have anything to do with his pandering to banksters

and big corporations.

Talk about idiotic.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #57)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:26 PM

237. Is it okay to call this President a POS!? nt

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #46)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:11 AM

54. All you have are insults. So you got nothin'

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Response to Cha (Reply #54)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:51 AM

123. When I posted an article to discredit what they said...

I got crickets.

Go figure.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #123)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:12 PM

171. Those Articles Were Weak

 

No reps entwined not one. Crickets is right.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #171)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:19 PM

176. Took you long enough.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #46)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:01 PM

141. Really, broadbrush much?!

Wow...The Smug Anti-Warren Crowd Surfaces


I helped get Warren elected. I met and talked to the woman, I am not about to follow her blindly.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #141)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:13 PM

172. I Support Warren 100%

 

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #172)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:41 PM

282. Me too.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #172)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:10 AM

336. But isn't supporting a politician 100% actually being a "blind follower"? So confusing...

...or does that kind of thing only apply to Obama supporters?

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Response to Hekate (Reply #336)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:53 AM

344. It Blind When

 

You become an ostrich with your head in the sand unable to face simple facts much like Republicans that live in a bubble. It's blind following when you act like a lemming following leaders off a cliff. I think Warren has proved herself with more than just speeches...especially since she doesn't covet the status and fame of the highest office. The so-called Democrats that are pushing intensely for TPP are an embarrassment to progress and positive change. They complain, "But, But our favorite Democrat and 99% of Republicans said TPP is good." Gullibility never ceases to amaze me. Try reading Warren's response to Obama's desperate attacks. http://www.warren.senate.gov/files/documents/BrokenPromises.pdf

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #344)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:41 AM

352. Uh huh. She was a professor, iirc, then OBAMA tried to appoint her into his government...

...to set up a department exactly tailored to HER pet issues, which Obama actually supports or he wouldn't have tried to appoint her, right? which Congressional GOP would not allow, so OBAMA had her working on an interim appointment setting up the department regardless, until he could get someone to run it that Congress would allow however grudgingly.

With all of that governmental experience and name recognition under her belt thanks to OBAMA, she ran for the Senate and won.

Remember any of that?

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Response to Hekate (Reply #336)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:15 AM

359. No it isn't the same.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #141)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:23 PM

180. +1

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:04 AM

44. Thread win on post 1.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #44)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:09 AM

50. Hey you!

Mahalo ucr..

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Response to Cha (Reply #50)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:16 AM

59. If I uttered one word of what I'm thinking

this would be our last goodbye

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #59)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:25 AM

69. ..

I rewrote my post a few times.. a lot of words got tossed on edit.

Feel much better about it.. learn-ing.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #44)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:50 AM

136. I agree ucrdem.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #136)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:10 PM

207. Sad isn't it?

Some people still don't get it after having it patiently explained to them for six years.

p.s.

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:18 AM

61. second this thread win.

 

yawn. most shit stirring from a hater.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #61)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:22 AM

64. Hey Mo~

Agree.

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Response to Cha (Reply #64)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:33 AM

74. hey honey

 

was surprised he didnt post it himself. hmm.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #61)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:22 AM

66. Jury results on OP:

2-5. Guess we're stuck with a horse in the house for a few days. . . .

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #66)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:45 AM

79. the "fucking pos used car salesman" didn't get a hide.. why would this? I wouldn't alert on

this drivel.. it's just more of same kind of rampant, ignorant propaganda that the majority of DU salivates over.

It's such an honor to be in the minority.

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Response to Cha (Reply #79)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:54 AM

102. "Keep Obama's hands off my Obamacare." nt

 

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #66)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:45 PM

220. Excellent.

 

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #66)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:31 PM

238. You make me laugh, ucrdem :)

To bad about the jury though

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)


Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:46 AM

81. Obviously, calling the President that during a time of pain

 

when a loved one is facing a medical crisis is horrific. Unforgivable!

But policies that will further increase the number of children who need to live in used cars, that's a wonderous thing whose greatness we're almost unworthy of.

Noted.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #81)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:41 AM

95. It is evidence of personal hatred, which runs in each and every one of this

 

author's pieces on President Obama. The author has a deep, burning personal hatred for the President such that he will express that hatred regardless of whether the President has done anything wrong. As was the case in the infamous POS used car salesman episode, for which a half-apology was given.

Some sources are not capable of writing fairly on certain subjects.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #81)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:11 PM

233. You mean blaming the President for something that WASN'T his fault

 

during a "time of pain", and when corrected, refusing to delete the OP?

Used cars, indeed.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #233)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:02 PM

288. I think you just demonstrated my point. nt

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:02 AM

85. You know

Cha just because a person has a gift for writing does not a smart man make. I say the hell with the author of yet another of his hit pieces on President Obama and the white horse he rode in on. I gave up on reading what the man has to say a long time ago as he lets hatred guide him. I'm not interested in reading hate and it matters not who writes it. I remember when he was tombstoned here on a couple occasions but for some reason was allowed to return each time. No one else have I seen this been extended too. I've been here a long time and I pay attention.


My gut feeling is the hate goes a lot deeper than the policies of President Obama alone. IMHO
When was the last time this author had anything good to say about our President? I don't personally know as I don't read garbage such as this hit piece posted here and it was because of what was written that made me make that decision quiet some time back.

Just calling a spade a spade, is all

Peace

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Response to madokie (Reply #85)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:18 AM

92. Peace to you, madokie.

I usually trash the hit "pos" but I decided I needed to respond to this one.

"Trojan Horse".. and now is when I stop talking because I would get a hide. too bad I can't say what I really think.. but, here we are. They can say any piece of shite thing they want about the President but we can't tell them what we think of them. Damn! lol

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Response to Cha (Reply #92)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:52 AM

101. Spot on

I'm taking a chance but I felt I had to say what I typed due to fairness.

Have a great day.

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Response to madokie (Reply #101)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:00 AM

105. I know..

we take our little chances when necessary.

Throw caution to the wind.. what the heck!

Mine is sweet dreams.. you have a great day!

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Response to madokie (Reply #85)

Wed May 20, 2015, 02:45 AM

384. +1

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Response to freshwest (Reply #384)

Wed May 20, 2015, 03:13 AM

386. Trojan horse president my aching ass

A lot of things he might be but a trojan horse or a use car salesman are not any of them. Its hate brought on mostly by the color of his skin. I don't read the author of this article linked to in this OP because of his almighty know it all bullshit. as I said earlier just because a person can write tripe such as was linked to does not a smart person make.

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:37 AM

94. Drop the mic. Haters gonna hate.

 

People like the author blame Obama if they stub their toe at night.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #94)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:57 AM

103. "Thanks Obama.. you trojan horse!" Rofl

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Response to Cha (Reply #103)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:58 AM

104. "Obama ruined Obamacare!" nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #94)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:58 AM

126. The stupidest meme ever:

"haters."

It ignores the destruction of REAL hate to defend a pov or a political person from a place of denial and emotion rather than reason and evidence.

Hate is a word over-used in modern culture, when "oppose," or "don't support," or "don't prefer," or "prefer other" would be more accurate. It diminishes the term and distracts from the true hate going on in the world.

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)


Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:54 AM

124. Exactly!

To think I once thought the author of the OP article had credibility, was worth reading, yikes. Excellent response to the shit flinging OP, Cha!

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Response to Spazito (Reply #124)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:06 AM

127. Mahalo Spazito~ And, just to say I think "brush" got a bad hide. Just need to put

"pos of shit used car salesman" in quotes. Wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea that we think "the author" is what he flings at the President.

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Response to Cha (Reply #127)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:15 AM

129. Hey Cha!

Yes, one should be able to critique the author of an article posted on DU without getting a hide, sadly that is not the case when it comes to certain authors.

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:49 AM

135. Me thinks, the author doesn't

like the President much. Let me think a moment, hmmmmm, got it! He called the President a POS used car salesman. Now a Trojan horse.



Thanks for the link to the KOS, Cha.

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:57 AM

138. I really thought "Trojan Horse"

Was going to allege that he was a foreign-born Muslim, the bastard son of Malcolm X.

I am a Democrat, and I support our President. EOM.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #138)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:15 PM

244. Err...what?

 

I am a Democrat, and I support our President. EOM.


So are hundreds of Congress who abhor the TPP. So you don't support them, so by your "logic" you're not a Dem.



Moonbat personality cult alert

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:59 AM

139. Trojan Horse

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 02:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Oh Cha...so sorry.

This was a response to the OP, but your reply #1 and others got me mixed up and I sent it to you instead...which made no sense and your probably scratched your head wondering if I forgot to take my meds.

Meds is okay, but need to get up and get my glasses. Once I sit down you are all stuck with figuring out what the hell I'm talking about, or to who for that matter.

I was very confused, and I don't think I even read the post I was replying to....giggle...

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Response to fadedrose (Reply #139)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:36 PM

311. No worries, fadedrose.. I didn't even read it. Just got back online.. hours are so different out

here on Kauai.

Aloha

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:59 AM

140. 1st reply FTW!

 

w00t!

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:34 PM

152. This is a very old meme Cha.

 

The right wingers were telling us he was a Trojan horse for the Muslim brotherhood/sharia law/socialists before he was elected the first time. Right wingers who lack creativity have been using this meme since day one. No difference here. Someone is trying to sell us a piece of shit. It isn't Obama.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #152)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:29 PM

309. Thank you for that, NCT, and boy do I know that! You'd think some originality would be called for.

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Response to Cha (Reply #309)

Wed May 20, 2015, 02:54 AM

385. Whatever appeals to your target audience, like the ACA thread. Credibility = Zero. n/t

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:55 PM

160. +1

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:07 PM

205. Cha

Please read your post from me, #139....

No reply necessary or desired.

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:11 PM

208. The post criticizes the President

 

for pushing the TPP. Refuting that argument by praising his entire administration is a red herring.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #208)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:37 AM

342. The post trashes Obama's entire time in office because of supporting the TPP

acting like he has done nothing but evil. I personally disagree with the TPP and I personally disagree with President Obama. That doesn't make it necessary to trash his entire time in office.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #342)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:17 AM

348. Mahalo, david.

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:09 PM

232. She shoots, she scores!

 

Winning goal in the first round!!!

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #232)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:49 PM

314. Mahalo Dr Hobbitstein!

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:25 PM

245. As usual Cha you make good points!

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #245)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:52 PM

315. Mahalo Justin.. means a lot, buddy!

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Response to Cha (Reply #315)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:54 PM

317. You handled yourself here with grace and class as always.

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:54 PM

254. Sill you, this is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, positive comments about the leader

of the Democratic Party are NOT tolerated

Only hatred of Obama and Clinton is

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Response to randys1 (Reply #254)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:54 PM

316. Yeah, they wish, randy!

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:41 PM

281. THANK YOU CHA! AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO ACTUALLY SUPPORTS THIS PARTY

One thing the republicans never do is cut up their own people. None of them said shit about bush and the HORRORS of his presidency.

But look at someone post yet another anti-Obama thread and everyone has to get on their high horse and join because they have no memory of all the great things he has done or they just like bashing people or maybe they don't know whathehell they are talking about.

It doesn't even matter what the subject is most of the time because they just like to complain and be negative.

Maybe we are dealing with immaturity. One thing you learn in life is everyone is going to sooner or later disappoint you. That does not mean they are bad. It doesn't mean you should judge them by this disappointment. Take the total view.

Take the total view. Not the narrow view.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #281)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:01 PM

318. Well said, Maraya~ "..maybe they don't know whathehell they are talking about." I'm opting for

this one as the primary factor. Not sure they would even care all the good that's happened even if they knew.

Mahalo, Maraya

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:12 PM

304. And Cha FOR THE WIN!



I saw the thread title and rolled my eyes, but when I saw "by William Rivers Pitt" that was all I needed to see to stop reading entirely.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #304)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:06 PM

319. I know.. I usually trash 'em.. but "trojan horse".. lol give. me. a. freaking. CT. break.

23!

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:35 PM

325. But most of us do get it. 194 recs for this OP and counting.

n/t

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:35 AM

340. thank you for your post! I find it disturbing to see this description of our POTUS....

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Response to secondwind (Reply #340)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:16 AM

346. You're Welcome, secondwind.. thank you!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:38 AM

10. Mitch McConnell Says Obama 'Has Done An Excellent Job' Pushing Trade Deal

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #10)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:41 AM

13. No that's scarey, now when there's bipartisanship,

 

we're screwed .

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Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #13)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:43 AM

15. George Carlin

 

You know what he says about bipartisanship.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #10)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:46 PM

285. Special!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:39 AM

11. of one thing I'm certain: This kind of article sure doesn't promote a discussion

 

or the TPP. It's just a food fight about President Obama.

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Response to cali (Reply #11)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:45 AM

19. Yup.

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Response to cali (Reply #11)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:46 AM

20. True. I'm not sure, though, that anything on the TPP doesn't do the same

There are a subset of folks who will attack anything that doesn't agree with their worldview, and TPP/trade discussions seems to be a real magnet.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #20)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:51 AM

27. A lot of people just post crap about TPP.

People seem uninformed about the process, what TPA, TPP etc. are... How decisions in congress will be made, what the impact of those decisions are.

A lot of the posts on the topic seem to be straight from the "gut", not that anything is wrong with that but it makes the conversions more heated.

I stay out of most of it because I'm not sure I understand the whole process.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #27)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:08 AM

49. Just Like NAFTA

 

The Clintons said we didn't understand the nuances. Just like deregulating banks and telecoms.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #49)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:09 AM

52. Well I for one don't.

But the people I elected to congress should do this for me, and they are.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #52)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:31 AM

116. Most of the people in Congress are Republicans, elected by pro-corporate, anti-labour folks.

Doesn't that make you a wee bit suspicious that even if they do understand it, their reasons for supporting it are pro-corporate, anti-labour?

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #116)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:50 AM

120. One of my congress people is Elizabeth Warren...

So I did my part.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #120)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:55 AM

125. You're lucky. And she doesn't support it.

(Eta, I'm halfway lucky too - one of my Senators is Sherrod Brown. Unfortunately, the other is still Rob Portman.)

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #125)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:48 AM

370. Halfway is better than none.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #120)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:18 PM

144. Warren is leading the opposition to TPP. Fact check time, perhaps? nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #144)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:49 AM

371. Yes I am aware, it good thing too.

Fact check? Think I got it right...

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #120)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:24 AM

367. So did those of us who ended up stuck with Republicans.

That doesn't mean we didn't do our part. Most of us tried as hard as we could but were outnumbered and surrounded by people who wouldn't listen and voted for the damn Republicans anyhow.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #367)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:51 AM

372. No I'm sure you did what you could...

But I don't don't like being told I'm a third way pro TPP democrat when I was part of getting Warren elected.

Some people shouldn't just throw accusations with nothing to back them up. You didn't do this.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #27)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:14 AM

58. that is true- and yes, it's on both sides

 

but it is possible to understand quite a lot. I know that most people don't have the time or inclination to have delved as deeply into it as I've been able to do. My interest in it coincided with the aftermath of a bad accident, so I plunged in. And there is a lot of information available- if not so much on tpp specifics, than on FTAs in general and the process.

Things I wish people did understand:

that trade promotion authority is not simply about dictating a yay or nay vote on future trade agreements, but that it governs how those trade agreements are negotiated and what U.S. priorities for negotiations are- as well as specifics that are to be included in trade agreements.

That passing TPA just about ensures passage of the TPP.

That Investment State Dispute Settlement can't actually change laws, but that it can influence them; whether they're introduced, whether they're revoked, how they're written.

That the TPP isn't just about lowering trade barriers or job loss due to outsourcing. People who claim that outsourcing will continue apace regardless of the TPP are correct. The TPP appears to be more about creating uniform regulation than anything else. that includes, but isn't limited to food safety, the environment and I/P.

I surely don't understand the whole process. Very few people do. I'm quite sure I never will, but I do know that one can become well informed about it.

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Response to cali (Reply #58)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:31 AM

73. This...

promotion authority is not simply about dictating a yay or nay vote on future trade agreements, but that it governs how those trade agreements are negotiated and what U.S. priorities for negotiations are- as well as specifics that are to be included in trade agreements.


Is what I want to know more about.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #73)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:16 AM

91. sure.

 

<snip>

Negotiating objectives

According to the Congressional Research Service, Congress categorizes trade negotiating objectives in three ways: overall objectives, principal objectives, and other priorities. The broader goals encapsulate the overall direction trade negotiations take, such as enhancing the United States' and other countries' economies. Principal objectives are detailed goals that Congress expects to be integrated into trade agreements, such as "reducing barriers and distortions to trade (e.g., goods, services, agriculture); protecting foreign investment and intellectual property rights; encouraging transparency; establishing fair regulatory practices; combating anti-corruption; ensuring that countries enforce their environmental and labor laws; providing for an effective dispute settlement process; and protecting the U.S. right to enforce its trade remedy laws". Consulting Congress is also an important objective.[16]

Principal objectives include:

Market access: These negotiating objectives seek to reduce or eliminate barriers that limit market access for U.S. products. "It also calls for the use of sectoral tariff and non-tariff barrier elimination agreements to achieve greater market access."
Services: Services objectives "require that U.S. negotiator strive to reduce or eliminate barriers to trade in services, including regulations that deny nondiscriminatory treatment to U.S. services and inhibit the right of establishment (through foreign investment) to U.S. service providers."
Agriculture: There are three negotiating objectives regarding agriculture. One lays out in greater detail what U.S. negotiators should achieve in negotiating robust trade rules on sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) measures. The second calls for trade negotiators to ensure transparency in how tariff-rate quotas are administered that may impede market access opportunities. The third seeks to eliminate and prevent the improper use of a country’s system to protect or recognize geographical indications (GI). These are trademark-like terms used to protect the quality and reputation of distinctive agricultural products, wines and spirits produced in a particular region of a country. This new objective is intended to counter in large part the European Union’s efforts to include GI protection in its bilateral trade agreements for the names of its products that U.S. and other country exporters argue are generic in nature or commonly used across borders, such as parma ham or Parmesan cheese.”
Investment/Investor rights: “The overall negotiating objectives on foreign investment are designed “to reduce or eliminate artificial or trade distorting barriers to foreign investment, while ensuring that foreign investors in the United States are not accorded greater substantive rights with respect to investment protections than domestic investors in the United States, and to secure for investors important rights comparable to those that would be available under the United States legal principles and practices."[17]

Scope

Fast track agreements were enacted as "congressional-executive agreements" (CEAs), which must be approved by a simple majority in both chambers of Congress.

Although Congress cannot explicitly transfer its powers to the executive branch, the 1974 trade promotion authority had the effect of delegating power to the executive, minimizing consideration of the public interest, and limiting the legislature's influence over the bill to an up or down vote:[18]

It allowed the executive branch to select countries for, set the substance of, negotiate and then sign trade agreements without prior congressional approval.
It allowed the executive branch to negotiate trade agreements covering more than just tariffs and quotas.
It established a committee system, comprising 700 industry representatives appointed by the president, to serve as advisors to the negotiations. Throughout trade talks, these individuals had access to confidential negotiating documents. Most members of Congress and the public had no such access, and there were no committees for consumer, health, environmental or other public interests.
It empowered the executive branch to author an agreement's implementing legislation without Congressional input.
It required the executive branch to notify Congress 90 days before signing and entering into an agreement, but allowed unlimited time for the implementing legislation to be submitted.
It forced a floor vote on the agreement and its implementing legislation in both chambers of Congress; the matters could not "die in committee."
It eliminated several floor procedures, including Senate unanimous consent, normal debate and cloture rules, and the ability to amend the legislation.
It prevented filibuster by limiting debate to 20 hours in each chamber.
It elevated the Special Trade Representative (STR) to the cabinet level, and required the Executive Office to house the agency.

The 1979 version of the authority changed the name of the STR to the U.S. Trade Representative.[18]

The 2002 version of the authority created an additional requirement for 90-day notice to Congress before negotiations could begin.[18]

<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track_%28trade%29

And this is an analysis of the current TPA in regard to sovereignty issues as they impact I/P. This analysis highlights the problems with the legal language employed:


<snip>

Let’s take these in order. Section (a) is a repetition of the language in every free trade implementation act that has passed congress since NAFTA. In technical detail, it is mostly literally true. International trade agreements, like most international treaties in the U.S., are non-self-executing, meaning that they only become judicially cognizable as U.S. law through domestic legislation implementing their mandates. Section (a) can be seen as articulating that standard. Elsewhere, the bill makes clear that the President has to identify through draft implementing legislation all the changes in US law required by the treaty. Any changes in law required by the treaty that are not adopted by the Congress in that implementing legislation will have no effect on U.S. law.

It is not true, however, that a failure of Congress to implement changes a treaty requires renders those provisions has having “no effect” whatsoever. The non-implemented provisions will still bind the U.S. under international law. Some other party of the treaty, or a private investor under investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS), could (depending on the enforcement language in the treaty) sue the U.S. for damages or to authorize trade sanctions. That dispute settlement process would bind the U.S. government – and have effect – even though it would not change U.S. law.

The language in (b) was not included in the last Trade Promotion Authority bill to pass Congress in 2002 or in any Free Trade Agreement implementing act. It shows that one of the major criticisms of U.S. trade policy, especially in the intellectual property field, is taking hold. The criticism is that even when the trade agreement provisions are consistent with presently existing U.S. law, they still have the negative effect of locking the U.S. into its present legislative structure.

Take the example of the use of software or services to break the code on a locked cell phone to use it with another carrier. Such action circumvents the “technological protection measure” imposed by the cell phone maker that blocks access to copyrighted software driving the phone. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act makes such “circumvention” illegal absent an exception. And the U.S. has entered a series of trade agreements that require countries to abide by the DMCA standard as it then was, including the lack of a permanent exception for cell phone unlocking. And thus, if Congress adopts a permanent exception for this problem (or for another problem, like facilitating accessible format copies for people with disabilities) the U.S. will be in derogation of trade agreement language it has already signed.

So does TPA section (b), claiming that nothing in a trade agreement can “prevent the United States, any State of the United States, or any locality of the United States from amending or modifying any law,” solve the problem? No it does not. Like (a), section (b) can be read as literally true. The U.S. Congress can always amend U.S. law in contravention of international law, and therefore nothing in a trade agreement can “prevent” the amendment of U.S. law. But the clear implication of the section is, like (a), that changing our laws to violate a treaty will have no effect. This is clearly not true. If Congress changes our law to be in violation of a treaty commitment, the only way to avoid liability for that change is to re-negotiate the applicable treaties to remove the confining language at issue.

Section (c) contains the biggest whopper. There, the bill claims to be able to render findings by dispute settlement panels with “no binding effect” on the law or “the Government” of the U.S. The key here is that international law, not U.S. law, decides the extent to which international treaties bind and the scope of remedies available. If a treaty has a dispute resolution process, then the nature of how that process binds an individual country is determined by the treaty, including any reservations made in the treaty itself, not by local trade authorization legislation.

<snip>

http://infojustice.org/archives/34298

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #27)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:17 AM

60. i'm getting pretty tired of the blind outrage myself.

 

i understand the secrecy, and i understand not having the whole damn congress negotiating it.
that's about all they have right now.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #20)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:54 AM

31. Unfortunately that subset are becoming megalomaniacs that run everything,

 

the rewards or spoils of the anti-social behavior adopted by TPTB .

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Response to cali (Reply #11)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:49 AM

24. Exactly, it's like my problems with Hillary have nothing to do with

 

Their Witch hunt, they've conducted since 92' .

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Response to cali (Reply #11)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:49 AM

25. I strongly disagree. I think it's an important article.

Our government is flooded with corporate money and now runs on lies and propaganda. We do have a Trojan Horse president. We have an entire government now that routinely lies to us about its goals and conducts elaborate theater, staged votes, to make it appear that they support things they don't. We live in a fake democracy.

At a certain point the rank corruption, the lies, need to be faced head-on for what they are. The entire relationship of Americans to our government has been changed. We are under mass surveillance, and we are targeted 24/7 by a ubiquitous, lying propaganda machine. Perhaps you would be right in saying that we have not had an honest government for a very long time, but the level of outright authoritarian contempt for Americans, the normalization and LEGALIZATION of authoritarian methods of communication and control targeted at us, is beyond what any of us should tolerate.

This TPP is undemocratic, period. It is a Trojan Horse piece of predatory garbage, pushed by Trojan Horse politicians pretending to be working within a democratic government, when what they are really doing is subverting democracy itself.

This should NOT be discussed as though it were just another political disagreement. It is a symbol of the deep corruption of our democracy, and Trojan Horse politicians who achieve their positions with torrents of corporate money and deliberate, orchestrated campaigns of lies are an important aspect of that.





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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:56 AM

32. +1000 !!!!

 

Bait & Switch on a grand scale.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:06 AM

45. I totally agree!

I have been a supporter of Obama and voted for him in both elections.

But I have to tell you that the TPP horrifies me and boggles the mind that Obama supports it. Only time will tell if TPP ends up destroying Obama's legacy.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:26 AM

70. some of the points made are very important, it's how the argument is presented that

 

I find problematic; it's not all about President Obama but by starting off the way Will did, it leads to the inevitable food fight about President Obama

I think I'm fairly aware of the dangers posed by the tpp which does indeed illustrate the dangers posed by corporate influence and control of our government and politicians.

I remain unconvinced that this is the best approach to tackling the issue.

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Response to cali (Reply #70)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:49 PM

199. You're right. It deflects responsibility away from others who helped draft the TPP. [n/t]

 

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:03 AM

87. + Eighty Gazillion

 

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:21 AM

111. That's for posting this

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:30 PM

187. +1000 - you said it! nt

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:47 PM

222. +10

 

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:01 PM

286. Huge +1!

As if things aren't bad enough. Watch the following to get a glimpse into just how badly we being represented.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:12 PM

303. Congratulations!

A post that actually does an excellent job of presenting the problems with the government and the TPP...and does not get into a personality fight...

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:16 PM

305. +1

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #25)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:34 PM

324. Well Said! Spot On!

 

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Response to cali (Reply #11)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:02 AM

42. OK---so all that anti-Hillary shit you post is to create discussion?

 

Oh---OK.... I get it.

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Response to trumad (Reply #42)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:10 AM

53. Who Knows?

 

Maybe some people desperately fear what Clinton controlling the Democratic Party would mean and are well beyond discussion and have gone straight to warning.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #53)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:12 AM

56. Oh I see,,,,

 

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Response to trumad (Reply #56)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:18 AM

62. I'm Tired Of Trying To Convince People Hillary Is No Good Or Dishonest

 

She's an honorary member of the soulless Bush Family. If that's not enough to make you suspicious then go ahead and campaign for her and let all those military contractors and bankers line their pockets. I'll be organizing with the people on the grass roots level cleaning up the mess later or at least trying. To many I know have given up in utter disappointment.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #62)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:25 AM

68. Yawn

 

You folks need new material.

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Response to trumad (Reply #68)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:35 AM

75. No, we need new leaders

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Response to trumad (Reply #68)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:07 PM

165. So Do You

 

Weak comment

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #53)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:04 AM

88. Bingo!

 

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Response to trumad (Reply #42)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:40 PM

216. Hillary is a candidate for the party's nomination . . .

. . . she is not the nominee, and the purpose of a primary campaign is to discuss and vet potential nominees. At this point in the process, it is perfectly appropriate to talk about the candidates themselves.

If I understand Cali's point correctly, her issue s not with the substance of the article, most of which I believe she agrees with, but is rather with the framing of it in terms of a "Trojan Horse President," a framing that may well create more heat than light on the substantive issues. Personally, I have somewhat mixed feelings about that, but I see her point. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with ongoing discussions about primary candidates for the 2016 nomination.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #216)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:43 PM

218. No---Cali has a problem with Pitt hence her snarky post.

 

I can see right though her.

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Response to cali (Reply #11)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:05 AM

89. Pot. Kettle. Black.

You're a top-flight shit-stirrer yourself, Cali.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #89)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:37 PM

215. There can be only one

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:00 AM

38. No one ever went broke flogging RW media memes but don't they have to be fresh?

Manchurian Obama is Prison Planet era.

p.s. this post should get hundreds of Bronx cheers.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:09 AM

51. Stiglitz should again be Chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisers.




He has seen it all. He understands our economy, and he profoundly respects our democratic processes.



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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Reply #51)

Mon May 18, 2015, 06:03 PM

289. +1 a whole bunch!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:12 AM

55. There was a genius to Obamas campaigning

He was really able to present himself in a way that allowed the voters to put upon him whatever their vision was.

If we truly want "hope and change" we will need to work very hard to put a real progressive in the White House.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:20 AM

63. I wish I could say you are wrong.

Occum's Razor says you aren't.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:22 AM

67. *

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:28 AM

71. Everybody knows this but avoids it. Nice piece, Will. Better have your umbrella ready.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #71)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:09 PM

265. Umbrellas are nice but I prefer people who will stand shoulder to shoulder with me. We can share, or

 

just find a trash bag.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:36 AM

76. Obama did go through law school when arbitration rather that lawsuits was being promoted

as a popular alternative to the court system.

Mandatory arbitration was pushed as a way to reduce costs of lawsuits. Arbitration, often unilateral and mandatory as a condition of entering into a contract between buyer-sellor was promoted as a protective shield for corporations.

The influence that has had on business law by the turn of the 21st century is summarized below in the comments of Judge WIlliam G. Young. In those comments from a dozen years ago you hear echoes of the current concerns about ISDS, that come from Elizabeth Warren who has a background and interest in consumer protection.


For the first time in our history, business has a good chance of opting out of the legal system altogether. Today's expansive reading of the Federal Arbitration Act allows the unilateral imposition of arbitration clauses to trump all sorts of civil rights and consumer protection legislation. Coupled with today's expansive preemption jurisprudence, business can (and does) make a rational calculus that leads it to lobby for an ever-diminishing role for the federal district courts.

Judge William G. Young
An Open Letter to U.S. District Judges, 50 FED.oLAW. 30, 33 (2003).



Resolution of disputes outside of the courts is financially quite beneficial to corporations and the reality is money is why corporations exist. Not surprisingly, as the free trade agreements are basically contractual business arrangements between nations, this same concept has been being pushed into trade agreements. It's just taken a long time for a significant fraction of the public to become aware of this during a time when the abusive practices of business make them available for criticism.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:41 AM

77. ah the latest from black-out dot com nt

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:42 AM

78. You can't blame Obama for wanting $25 million speaking fees like Billary.

 

The alternative is to be honest and spend your time building roofs on houses like Jimmy Carter.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #78)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:55 AM

84. You have no effin' idea what the President is going to do when leaves he office.. but, that doesn't

stop you from ignorantly hurling cheap pot shots from the anonymous internet gallery.

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Response to Cha (Reply #84)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:10 PM

168. Please favor the rest of us with your inside knowledge.

 

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #168)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:18 PM

175. You're the one who fabricated the "Obama is a greedy monster who is seling America

 

out for speaking fees" theory--what is YOUR source? -besides your own personal hatred of the president and an overactive imagination, that is.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #175)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:22 PM

179. My source? The commie N.Y. Times.

 

T.P.P.
Shell, drilling in the Arctic.

The blank spaces that report indictments on banksters regarding the crash of '08.

Selection of Timmy Geithner.

That's all I can think of now.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #179)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:26 PM

184. No, those sources don't supporty your allegation that the President is a greedy moral monster

 

who's selling out America to line his own pockets.

That just indicates he did some stuff you didn't like.

you're the one who's claiming that if he does stuff you don't like, it's because he's a horrible human being that doesn't care about anything but making himself rich.

Which, is your opinion which is based in your personal hatred of him, not in anything resembling analysis, logic, or evidence.

Just admit that you hate him and everything he stands for, and you'll have more credibility. You just want your country back.


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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #184)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:33 PM

191. Lets start of with that I voted for Dennis Kuchinich over Obama and Hillary in '08.

 

That was my hope to get my country back.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #191)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:36 PM

194. The same Kucinich who draws a paycheck from Fox News? nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #194)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:53 PM

200. I think you got Ole Hoppy with that one.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #194)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:54 PM

322. I will take Dennis's voting history over St. Hillary's any day.

 

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #299)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:43 AM

369. Shit, that ain't nothin'. While its a start, Billary started a foundation.

 

Yeah, the foundation ain't got too much money in it, but still. They show that they care.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #168)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:20 PM

306. "Obama’s Retirement Plan: Help Black Kids" You don't have to have "inside knowledge".. just get

your head out of the sand you have it so deeply buried in.

"At the risk of emphasizing his status as a lame duck, Obama announced the establishment of My Brother’s Keeper Alliance, a nonprofit outgrowth of the My Brother’s Keeper program in the White House that the president announced more than a year ago, with little fanfare from a jaded press and public."

more

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/05/how-obama-will-spend-the-rest-of-his-life.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110228803


Youth Guidance: President Obama Invites BAM Program Back To The White House

"President Obama has invited Youth Guidance’s Becoming a Man (B.A.M.) program back to Washington D.C. to kick off a new White House initiative called “My Brother’s Keeper.” Three B.A.M. students from Hyde Park High School, along with B.A.M. Lead Supervisor, Marshaun Bacon, and Youth Guidance Board Member, Stuart Taylor, will visit the White House Thursday and Friday. The President’s initiative will support young male minorities by bringing foundations and companies together to find ways to keep young men in school and out of the criminal justice system."

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/02/27/my-brothers-keeper/

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #298)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:22 PM

307. Hey she.. thank you for the link.. I elaborated on it and sent it to the one who has "no idea.."

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Response to Cha (Reply #307)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:25 PM

308. I posted about it as well, but came across n2docs first!

Lol~ will follow your link, Cha.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm~ Let me guess, all you will hear is crickets.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #308)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:32 PM

310. I dunno what he'll have to say about the reality.. seemed so invested in fantasy land.

Thanks again!

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Response to Cha (Reply #310)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:45 PM

312. Does Obamacare cover that?

And you are so welcome, Cha.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #78)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:44 AM

97. Billary? Obama and Clinton haters on the left would be well-advised to avoid using rightwing

 

vocabulary lest their motives be revealed.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #97)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:44 PM

156. Yes.

I find that very a very odd thing to say on a Democratic board.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #78)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:02 AM

335. "Billary"? You sure you're in the "Democrat" Party? The slur "Billary" is straight from FR. nt

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Response to Hekate (Reply #335)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:21 AM

360. It's also a very common and well-known way, in the real world, of referring to any famous

famous couple, as when Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez were referred to as Bennifer by fawning media and devoted, adoring fans.

I see nothing wrong with Billary, regardless of where else you happened to see it. It's not even derogatory, ffs. It's just a shorter way to refer to them when one wants to refer to both of them at the same time.

If you enjoy typing out Bill and Hillary Clinton, Or President and Secretary Clinton, be my guest. If you think using "Billary makes me or anyone else a Republican," be my guest as well, though I hope that you see how bizarre a notion that is. (By the way, if you see Billary used on a communist board, will that people who use Bilary both Communists and a Republicans simultaneously?)

The witch-hunting on this board reached ridiculous levels.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:48 AM

82. Oh bullfeathers


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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 07:55 AM

83. I knew this in '08.

I was reviled for saying so.

Better late than never, I guess.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:09 AM

90. Back in 2009 I had a post hidden when I wrote that Obama's abandoning even the public option ...

 

... was traitorous (or something along those lines).

Now we have six years of evidence piling up - Summers, Geithner, drones, offshore drilling, fracking, the TPP, etc, etc, etc.


Glad to see this post was not hidden. BHO's fan club and the paid agents of the right need to see that we are no longer buying this bullshit.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #90)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:43 AM

96. Who is "we"--the fellow Obamasux knee-jerkers?

 

Mainstream liberal Democrats like him just fine. The extremists not so much.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #96)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:44 AM

98. Yes, pointing out bad policy makes one an "extremist."

 

Another fail from geek tragedy.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #98)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:49 AM

99. You rattled off a list of talking points that the President's haters on the left cling

 

bitterly to, not a policy critique.

Ted Cruz's extremism and style can be found on the opposite side go the political spectrum.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #99)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:03 AM

107. Those aren't ''Haters on the left talking points.''

"Summers, Geithner, drones, offshore drilling, fracking, the TPP, etc, etc, etc." are the facts, the reality of the Obama administration.

What would Goldman think?

How many Banksters are in prison?

Where in the Constitution does it say the President can be judge, jury and executioner?

BP hasn't cleaned up the Gulf or made whole those whose lives and livelihoods were impacted by their criminal negligence.

We're set to frack Ukraine until Putin.

TPP will help the corporations and their owners, not the 99-percent.

Why is Gov. Don Siegelman in prison?

And ask yourself what kind of DUer compares another DUer to Ted Cruz?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #98)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:50 AM

121. It's the Emperor's New Clothes syndrome

You must be one if you say what you see.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #90)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:29 PM

150. Didn't we all...!

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #90)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:26 PM

183. the point is not to convince, it's to delay until it's too late

Summers, Geithner, Fowler, drones, Morales's grounding, Tegucigalpa '09, Libya's success, Syria's inevitable downfall, offshore drilling, fracking, TPP, war are all irrelevant now with not even a year left: the loyalists get their dander riled up every other month with us squalling Naderites slandering these wonderful happenstances, and they swiftly forget each thing that made their blood boil as they proved that the left was working for the right by opposing policies that the right had written and asked for

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Response to MisterP (Reply #183)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:31 PM

190. This who have the ball....

 

control the game and the game clock.


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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:03 AM

108. ...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #108)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:40 PM

197. If Bernie Sanders becomes president, Sid,

 

will you worship the ground he walks on too?

Just wondering . . .

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Response to Damansarajaya (Reply #197)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:46 PM

221. Do I know you?...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #221)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:01 PM

229. He was confusing you with Skinner.

 

Seeing as you have the same IP and all...

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #229)

Wed May 27, 2015, 01:20 PM

395. LOL

well played

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #221)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:40 PM

246. It was a yes or no question.

 

I was just wondering since you seem to think Pres. Obama can do no wrong.

I wondered if this was just an Obama thing or will the defend-anything-all-the-time go for any Democratic president.

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Response to Damansarajaya (Reply #246)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:49 PM

251. I don't think Democratic Presidents should be bashed at Democratic Underground...

if, by some miracle, Bernie were to win the nomination and then the Presidency, then I would defend him against the inevitable attacks from the perpetually outraged - whether those attacks come from Republicans or from the fringe left.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #251)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:26 PM

276. Fair enough. I appreciate a consistent position. nt

 

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #251)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:33 PM

331. I think Canadians should clean up their own backyards.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #331)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:12 AM

337. ...



Xenophobia is funny.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #337)

Wed May 20, 2015, 04:00 AM

388. EarlG smacked down a xenophobe on DU2. Because of a

complaint on your daring to post at DU.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #388)

Wed May 20, 2015, 08:11 AM

393. I remember it well...



I wonder what ever happened to DainBramaged? Does he still post here?

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #393)

Wed May 20, 2015, 09:08 AM

394. I don't think he ever got the hang of DU3. He stayed there longer than most. But, there's been a

resurgence of DU3rs posting on DU2 now as almost their own board where they all agree with each other. Check the top five, here is the most recent:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=latest_threads

Even AverageJoe90, who was PPR'd here, was posting there.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #221)

Wed May 20, 2015, 02:41 AM

381. Does this photograph jog your memory?



Yelling 'Strawman' is a dead giveaway.


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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:09 AM

109. Who 'owns' the Party?

'Trojan Horse' depends upon your point of view on that question. If you believe 'the people' are the Party, then yes, an argument could be made that the President was a 'Trojan Horse', because that depends upon something being 'hidden' from those who received the 'Horse'. But do 'the People' own the Party, or just a small subset of people with power, most of whom are already wealthy? If that's how you view things, then there was nothing 'hidden'. They knew what was acceptable in a candidate, and were fine with either Obama or Clinton in 2008 (and Clinton in 2016).

But Obama did not campaign entirely 'in disguise'. Yes, he used liberal rhetoric, but at the core of the ideas he presented, even in campaigning in 2007 was the same sort of 'socially liberal, fiscally conservative' Democrat the Party machinery is entirely comfortable with. If there was any area in which one might suggest he misled, it was in foreign adventurism, but even there he hedged by saying he was only against 'stupid wars' - without mentioning all sorts of covert drone wars the world over, or his current level of comfort with massive intelligence agency overreach in 'Big Brother'hood.

So I'd say 'Trojan Horse' is the wrong metaphor. He mostly didn't hide who he was. He simply let others project their own hopes for change on him.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #109)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:29 AM

115. Public option.

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Response to merrily (Reply #115)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:21 PM

146. .

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Response to merrily (Reply #115)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:19 PM

177. you can thank Joe Lieberman et al for killing both that and the Medicare expansion nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #177)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:21 PM

178. Nope. But, I've had this discussion too many times before to have it again.

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Response to merrily (Reply #178)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:29 PM

186. Yet you keep on trotting out the same false talking points.

 

the President wasn't going to hold hostage the Medicaid expansion, the end to pre-existing condition exclusions, the increased regulation, and the subsidies unless he got the public option.

The Green Lantern theory of presidential power is a big-time logical fail.

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/20/5732208/the-green-lantern-theory-of-the-presidency-explained

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #186)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:31 PM

188. Odd comment to make to someone who just declined to discuss it, but whatever.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #177)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:06 PM

231. You can't kill that which was never born

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:21 AM

112. So much for my ignore list. POS used car salesmen will slip through I guess.

That's what they do.

Go sell some more shitty cars Will.

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Response to tridim (Reply #112)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:39 PM

154. Right?

You'd think using ignore would be safe. Trash thread I guess.

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Response to tridim (Reply #112)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:57 PM

243. You know what's more interesting?

 

That the person in question is apparently "borrowing" concepts from other writers. Even though they may be conservative writers, I believe there is a word for that.

The anti-Obama bile is just par for the course.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:22 AM

113. Thanks for posting, Segami

K&R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:34 AM

117. William Pitt has hit the nail on the head.

I can understand why people are in denial about this. Looking behind the curtain to see what our "masters" are up to can be absolutely horrific. Elizabeth Warren believes she can turn Clinton around and convince her to serve the people rather than the corporations. I am not optimistic. I believe that the intent of the oligarchy is to take the rest of our blood. With Clinton, this will happen more slowly. With Walker, the carnage will be rapid. Walker will do to the nation what he did to Wisconsin. From the standpoint of the oligarchy, Wisconsin is a "success" story. From the standpoint of the rest of us, it is a nightmarish hell on earth. Median income in Wisconsin has dropped $9000 since Walker began his mischief at the bidding of his masters. That is what "they" are planning for us.

Sanders and Warren are prophets in the wilderness. They know what TPP is about. They know what will become of this once beautiful country if TPP is passed. They know what will happen to environmental regulations, unions, drug prices, food inspection and labeling, wages, health care, social security, education and working conditions if TPP is passed. But it is hard to give up old loyalties and comforting beliefs. Denial is a protective measure of the human psyche; is a psychological mechanism for retaining some semblance of comfort and security. The truth is that Obama is not on our side and has never been. Even Affordable Care is a republican invention, designed to provide some relief to people without insurance, but a whole lot of money to the healthcare and insurance industry.

Obama revealed his true face when he talked down to Elizabeth Warren. But he has done that before. Time after time, he has trashed heroic progressive democrats and left republican enemies alone. Even more, he has courted republicans, negotiated with them when he didn't have to, and overlooked the most vile and racist attacks on his person. Why? Because both Obama and republicans serve the same masters. And Obama will be wealthy beyond his wildest dreams when he leaves office, if he can manage to make one last capitulation that hands US sovereignty over to the oligarchs.

We are not in charge anymore, folks. We haven't been in charge for a long time. Sanders and Warren are heroes. However futile it may seem, it is courageous for them to stand up to those who own most of the money and power. When times get very hard, when things seem impossible, when the darkness of greed seems to overtake our country, that is when great and heroic human beings make their appearance and we are reminded of the values we have forgotten and taken for granted. Great suffering becomes fertile soil for great idealism and new hope. Hope for Obama was a false hope. Let's not get fooled again.

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Response to Koinos (Reply #117)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:54 PM

226. beautifully said

thank you.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 09:44 AM

119. Good analogy

You can't promise to change the way we do business in Washington, including running the most transparent administration in history and then act like you're being inconvenienced when people expect full disclosure when it comes to game changing policy like NSA spying and trade bills that hand corporations the power to undermine laws that protect the public and not have your image tarnished.. And it's not Pitt, Stiglitz or Warren tarnishing his image, it's Barack Obama...

"More and more, the real business of our democracy isn't done in town halls or public meetings or even in the open halls of Congress," Obama said. "Decisions are made in closed-door meetings, or with the silent stroke of the President's pen, or because some lobbyist got some Congressman to slip his pet project into a bill during the dead of night. We have to take the blinders off the White House. The more people know about what's going on in Washington, and how their tax dollars are being spent, and who's raising money for who, the less likely it is that major decisions will be hijacked by lobbyists and special interests."

"I know it's easy to be cynical about politics in this country," Obama said. "I understand that cynicism. But I've always said that when the American people are paying attention -- when they're involved and engaged and informed about what's going on in their government -- then good things happen. I've spent my life trying to open up the political process to people, and I believe we can do it again. And when we do that, we will have a government that listens to their voices and finally responds to their best hopes once more."


The guard says, ‘you can’t take notes.’ I said, ‘I can’t take notes?’” Boxer recalled. “‘Well, you can take notes, but have to give them back to me, and I’ll put them in a file.’ So I said: ‘Wait a minute. I’m going to take notes and then you’re going to take my notes away from me and then you’re going to have them in a file, and you can read my notes? Not on your life.’”

“It’s like being in kindergarten,” said Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.), who’s become the leader of the opposition to President Barack Obama’s trade agenda. “You give back the toys at the end.”

"It is incomprehensible to me that the leaders of major corporate interests who stand to gain enormous financial benefits from this agreement are actively involved in the writing of the TPP while, at the same time, the elected officials of this country, representing the American people, have little or no knowledge as to what is in it,"
-Bernie Sanders

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Response to raindaddy (Reply #119)

Wed May 27, 2015, 08:23 PM

396. +1000 nt

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:26 AM

130. I can't take this much stupid so early in the morning. Next he's the Manchurian Candidate. He's

for something you're against, not a Trojan horse.

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Response to Pisces (Reply #130)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:56 PM

201. Some guy told me George Soros paid his tuition at the tony Hawaiian prep school he attended./NT

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #201)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:08 PM

206. Ha!!

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Response to Pisces (Reply #130)

Wed May 20, 2015, 04:02 AM

389. +1

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:35 AM

131. Wondering

What would Obama have to do/say to dissuade the few here who fiercely defend him no matter what?

The "tea baggers" are against it too holds no water. Libertarians do intersect with progressives on a few things. Most of their agenda is wacko but on this, our insane military expenditures, pot, and apparently this we do agree.

Obama is lock step with most of the republican party on this. He and Mitch the Turtle are both for this. Obama defenders on this must relish the thought of multinational corporations suing the US. Just one of the tasty nuggets in there.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #131)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:41 PM

240. Loyalty is addictive.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:55 AM

137. k&r

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:20 PM

145. Racism in the Age of Obama

 

Racial tensions in the United States have changed since Obama’s election as president, and for the worse. As judicial opinions since 2008 have revealed, both the word “Obama” and the president’s image have become tools for harassing and otherwise discriminating, in the workplace and in places of public accommodation, against blacks and against whites in romantic relationships with blacks.

For instance, while at a company picnic, one white employee sat down next to his co-workers, held a watermelon slice in his hand, and asserted, “I’m going to sit down to eat my ‘Obama fruit.’” In a different court case, a plaintiff complained that the company’s C.E.O. once said he had a “gift for you for all the Obama people outside” — while handing a rifle to another employee. In yet another case, a white employee derided an African co-worker, calling the co-worker “boy,” threatening his life and telling him he should take Obama back to Africa to vote for him.

For other individuals, President Obama’s election has become a basis for denying and ignoring the realities of racism, both conscious and unconscious, in our country. Soon after Obama’s election, conservatives such as Gregory Coleman, a Texas lawyer, argued that the election demonstrated the obsolescence of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 — a point reiterated by the U.S. Supreme Court in its June decision invalidating a section of the act.


http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/11/20/racism-in-the-age-of-obama/obama-has-become-a-code-word-for-racists


Over time, the hostility toward Obama grew dramatically, and so did racist statements. Actually, it did not take very long. One year into his presidency, ABC News catalogued an array of racially tinged and overtly racist statements or actions taken against Obama. They came from election and party officials and media figures, including Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. In the years since, the number of prominent figures using race as a wedge only grew. They include a New Hampshire police commissioner using the "N" word to refer to the president, a Montana federal district judge sending racist emails, and many others.

Most troubling is that some of the most loathsome comments have been enabled and legitimized. After Ted Nugent called the president of the United States a "subhuman mongrel"—a term CNN's Wolf Blitzer noted was used by the Nazis to justify the extermination of Jews—Texas gubernatorial candidate Greg Abbott welcomed this incendiary and hateful figure at a campaign event. And Colorado Senate candidate Tom Tancredo excitedly announced that he had gotten Nugent to contribute one of his assault weapons for Tancredo to auction off to help finance his campaign.


snip:
Now, of course, racial divisions and the sharply different perceptions whites and nonwhites have about policing and fairness have come to the fore. We know from the most recent Pew Research Center survey that reactions to the Michael Brown and Eric Garner decisions are starkly different by race. On the Ferguson case, 64 percent of whites believe the grand jury made the right decision, while 80 percent of black respondents believe it was wrong. Sixty-four percent of blacks said race was a major factor in the decision, compared with 16 percent of whites. On the Staten Island case, the results were not as stark but still striking: 47 percent of whites said the grand jury made the wrong decision, as did 90 percent of blacks. The more general perceptions about police discrimination in behavior toward minorities show whites generally feeling police are fair, and nonwhites believing by large numbers that they discriminate against minorities.


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/obamas-challenge-building-a-bridge-over-americas-racial-divide/383649/

More than skin color or even the growing racial wealth gap it is this fear that remains one of the greatest unspoken gulfs between racial minorities, and everybody else. I say this because I -- someone who is occasionally criticized for presenting an optimistic view of race relations in my writing that is increasingly common among my generation -- have experienced this gulf with my white friends. They will simply never know what it's like to assume that the overly attentive sales associate following you around the store (without ever offering to assist you), is following you because she's worried you may steal something because of your race. It's a thought that will simply never cross their minds. (And yes for the record this has happened to me more than once. I've even been followed out of a store so an associate could "double check" that I had "remembered to pay," and this was after I had begun appearing on television regularly and had actually patronized the store several times before.)

But when your parents grow up in the segregated South and you grow up in the age of The Cosby Show, you remain conscious of the fact that being followed in a store will always pale in comparison to being called the n-word every day at school (which happened to my mother) or taunted with the threat of lynching (which happened to my father.) Yet the further along we go into the Obama era, which many assumed would mark the start of a new chapter in American race relations, a provocative question has emerged: Is subtle racism actually more damaging to black Americans than blatant racism?


http://www.alternet.org/story/152581/is_racism_worse_in_the_age_of_obama

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #145)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:31 PM

330. I lost a job over anti-Obama racism.

The Tuesday before Thanksgiving...all because I said to my boss: "I respect your right to be a self-avowed racist, and I hope you will respect my right not to hear in in the workplace."

After that exchange, his racist comments happened much more frequently, and he started picking at me in a passive aggressive manner.
Instead of saying "n****r-rigged," he started saying "obama-rigged." He would smirk at me, and ask if I liked his updated version.

I am more than a little relieved that I no longer have to listen to him spewing hate and bigotry...

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:22 PM

147. .

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:25 PM

148. horse or a different animal similar to a horse, but smaller?

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:28 PM

149. This is one of the main parts of this deal causes me to give a thumbs-down. >>

 

"on labor and environmental standards, for example - citizens, unions, and civil-society groups have no recourse."

A big Stick it up your ass.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:37 PM

153. He actually compares President Obama to Nixon?

Talk about hyperbole. This is disgusting.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #153)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:05 PM

323. Actually Nixon Couldn't have Gotten Away With

the NSA's mass spying on Americans.. Or a trade agreement like the TPP. Nixon's healthcare reform proposal had some similarities to the Affordable Care Act.

Nixon was also paranoid and mentally unstable and Obama is neither...

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:43 PM

155. Total fucking bullshit!

Dumbest damned post I have read on DU, and it speaks wonders about the person who wrote it. I put it right up there with his crappy post about the president being a no good fucking piece of shit used car salesman!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:50 PM

158. I think the guy that wrote this article

Is full of bologna.


No offense to you Segami - you are someone who I might not always agree with but read what you post because you don't do hit jobs, you don't drop bombs and go, and you take the time to take a deep dive on your op's.

I just don't agree with the author of the article at all.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:54 PM

159. Yes, I knew I'd seen this verbiage

somewhere before...Trojan Horse...the right wing LOVES that shit when referring to the President.

Wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not. This coming from the POS used car salesmen author--his pet name for the president. Frankly, I think his work ranks right up there, no wait, maybe it's below the shit you see in the National Enquirer et al.

I'm anticipating the stories about Michelle's entourage on the tax payers dime & the vacations, etc.

http://www.storyleak.com/barack-hussein-obama-manchurian-candidate-and-trojan-horse-warmonger-and-deceiver/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/22/our-trojan-horse-president/?page=all


Plenty more where those ^^ came from. Feel free to run over and slobber all over them as well.


edit: the verbiage I'm referring to comes from the author of the article: WRP--not the OP.


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Response to one_voice (Reply #159)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:16 PM

174. well, the author of this piece has received praise at Free Republic for his Obama-hating rants

 

before, and he's used the same language as Ted Nugent to describe the President, so it makes sense.

Note: not referring to Segami, who is good people as far as I'm concerned

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:59 PM

163. I must confess...

When the President began his first term and kept Bush holdovers like Bob Gates and General Petraeus, and continued the Bush policies, domestic and foreign, and hired Timothy Geithner to continue Bush's bailout of the banks, etc, I had similar thoughts.

Now, 6 years later, I am still not convinced. This latest decision to push the TPP over the wishes of the majority of his Party has caused the doubts to rise again. In between was the vote to make most of the Bush taxcuts permanent when we desperately needed those revenues to keep needed programs alive.

So, I am not sure. I would like to believe the best.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #163)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:24 PM

181. Obama was never going to do everything DU wanted him to do.

 

It was probably smart to keep Petraeus from becoming an asset for the Republican party (he had demigod status, politically, until his scandal blew up).

The tax cuts were kept on lower income earners but raised on upper income voters. Sure, they could have just raised taxes on everyone--including the middle class and working poor--but how much good would that have really done?

The key was delinking raising taxes on the wealthy from raising them on the middle class. This amounted to a shift of wealth from the wealthy to everyone else.

If we need to raise taxes again, it will be on everyone--the wealthy included.

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Response to Segami (Original post)


Response to Segami (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:07 PM