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Mon May 18, 2015, 10:08 AM

The Democratic Party IS the Left in this country.

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 12:54 PM - Edit history (2)

We have two parties in this country.

One represents those who are on the Right

The other represents those who are on the Left.

If a candidate from the Dem Party needs to be pulled, pushed, nudged, dragged or shoved to the Left then why should people on the Left believe that such a candidate will be representing their interests?

Isn't that where they should have been all along?

Bernie Sanders is on the Left.

He is not running to push, pull, drag, cajole, nudge or shove anyone else to the Left.

He is running because he represents the Left and has done so for over 25 years.

That is why I am supporting him.

He represents the Left on almost all of the issues that concern Democrats.

Editing to respond to some comments questioning whether or not the Democratic Party itself represents the Left anymore.

According to statistics, most Americans are to the Left on the major issues.

Certainly the Democratic Base is on the Left as we understand that term, on most of the important issues.

To those who questioned the title of the OP, you are correct, statistics and elections and the drop in membership in the Dem Party, the growth of voters now registered as Independents, all point to the fact that voters don't feel the Democratic Party represents them.

So imo, Bernie is not in this race to drag other candidates to the Left, he is in it to win and if he wins, he can pull the Dem Party back from the Center Right position it has taken over the past two decades or so.

I agree iow, that the party itself needs to be dragged to the Left. And the only candidate who can do that is one is already on the Left him or herself.

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Arrow 139 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Democratic Party IS the Left in this country. (Original post)
sabrina 1 May 2015 OP
JEB May 2015 #1
sabrina 1 May 2015 #2
Bettie May 2015 #119
sabrina 1 May 2015 #123
w0nderer Nov 2015 #139
on point May 2015 #3
kenfrequed May 2015 #4
sabrina 1 May 2015 #6
davidpdx May 2015 #125
sabrina 1 May 2015 #127
davidpdx May 2015 #129
YoungDemCA May 2015 #15
Phlem May 2015 #32
NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #103
sabrina 1 May 2015 #121
Oilwellian May 2015 #26
kenfrequed May 2015 #36
sabrina 1 May 2015 #5
Eleanors38 May 2015 #70
nashville_brook May 2015 #7
seabeyond May 2015 #8
YoungDemCA May 2015 #11
seabeyond May 2015 #13
sabrina 1 May 2015 #17
seabeyond May 2015 #20
sabrina 1 May 2015 #27
seabeyond May 2015 #30
sabrina 1 May 2015 #35
seabeyond May 2015 #37
babylonsister May 2015 #124
sabrina 1 May 2015 #126
AgingAmerican May 2015 #132
sabrina 1 May 2015 #14
seabeyond May 2015 #16
sabrina 1 May 2015 #22
seabeyond May 2015 #23
sabrina 1 May 2015 #38
seabeyond May 2015 #40
sabrina 1 May 2015 #44
seabeyond May 2015 #51
Scuba May 2015 #134
seabeyond May 2015 #18
sabrina 1 May 2015 #24
seabeyond May 2015 #25
Exilednight May 2015 #19
seabeyond May 2015 #21
sabrina 1 May 2015 #31
sulphurdunn May 2015 #29
seabeyond May 2015 #33
sulphurdunn May 2015 #54
seabeyond May 2015 #56
sulphurdunn May 2015 #59
seabeyond May 2015 #61
sulphurdunn May 2015 #65
seabeyond May 2015 #66
sulphurdunn May 2015 #57
hobbit709 May 2015 #9
YoungDemCA May 2015 #10
MissDeeds May 2015 #12
upaloopa May 2015 #28
sabrina 1 May 2015 #34
upaloopa May 2015 #39
sabrina 1 May 2015 #42
upaloopa May 2015 #45
sabrina 1 May 2015 #46
upaloopa May 2015 #50
sabrina 1 May 2015 #120
TheSarcastinator May 2015 #41
sabrina 1 May 2015 #43
BainsBane May 2015 #68
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #47
sabrina 1 May 2015 #49
F4lconF16 May 2015 #48
sabrina 1 May 2015 #53
F4lconF16 May 2015 #55
seabeyond May 2015 #58
sabrina 1 May 2015 #74
seabeyond May 2015 #75
sabrina 1 May 2015 #76
seabeyond May 2015 #78
sabrina 1 May 2015 #89
seabeyond May 2015 #90
sabrina 1 May 2015 #96
seabeyond May 2015 #98
seabeyond May 2015 #93
sabrina 1 May 2015 #102
seabeyond May 2015 #104
sabrina 1 May 2015 #105
BainsBane May 2015 #71
gordianot May 2015 #52
Katashi_itto May 2015 #60
BainsBane May 2015 #62
sabrina 1 May 2015 #73
BainsBane May 2015 #77
sabrina 1 May 2015 #80
vive la commune May 2015 #87
colsohlibgal May 2015 #63
sabrina 1 May 2015 #108
brooklynite May 2015 #64
Eleanors38 May 2015 #69
sabrina 1 May 2015 #79
brooklynite May 2015 #94
seabeyond May 2015 #97
brooklynite May 2015 #99
seabeyond May 2015 #100
sabrina 1 May 2015 #101
davidpdx May 2015 #128
eloydude May 2015 #109
brooklynite May 2015 #111
eloydude May 2015 #113
seabeyond May 2015 #114
eloydude May 2015 #115
seabeyond May 2015 #117
Lizzie Poppet May 2015 #67
sabrina 1 May 2015 #84
Lizzie Poppet May 2015 #92
Doctor_J May 2015 #72
brooklynite May 2015 #95
eloydude May 2015 #110
Major Hogwash May 2015 #133
UglyGreed May 2015 #81
sabrina 1 May 2015 #86
UglyGreed May 2015 #106
redstatebluegirl May 2015 #82
sabrina 1 May 2015 #85
redstatebluegirl May 2015 #88
sabrina 1 May 2015 #91
MuseRider May 2015 #83
sabrina 1 May 2015 #107
Cheese Sandwich May 2015 #112
sabrina 1 May 2015 #116
Cheese Sandwich May 2015 #130
CharlotteVale May 2015 #118
BrotherIvan May 2015 #122
Major Hogwash May 2015 #131
sabrina 1 May 2015 #136
Major Hogwash May 2015 #137
sabrina 1 May 2015 #138
Scuba May 2015 #135

Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:14 AM

1. Bernie's life is based on principles, not

 

whatever is expedient. Very refreshing especially for a politician.

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Response to JEB (Reply #1)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:20 AM

2. Yes, it is refreshing. Especially since he has a long record to prove that he isn't

just talking.

It has not made sense to me when people dismiss his candidacy even while acknowledging how right he is on major issues, by condescendingly stating that it is 'good he is running, he will drag Hillary to the Left'.

Because that is not why he is running, and more importantly to say she needs to be dragged to the Left is acknowledging that she is not representative of those whose votes she needs to win.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #2)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:31 PM

119. I don't understand the "drag X to the Left"

because it is a given that if that person (Hilary in this case) starts saying more liberal things, it is just for show. Should she be elected, she'll not be that 'dragged to the Left" version, she'll be a slightly more liberal than most Republicans Dem.

What I like about Bernie is that he is what he is. No calculation, no triangulation, just a guy who is pretty consistent between what he says and what he does. That's pretty darned rare these days.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #119)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:03 PM

123. I don't understand it either. It makes no sense at all. And those who are saying this are democrats.

As you say, and I know it has been pointed out over and over again, that once elected anyone who had to be dragged to a certain position in a campaign, is going to go right back to whatever they were once elected.

Bernie is real. No scripts, no memos or talking points. He doesn't need to 'be careful' or to avoid the media because he is what he is.

It IS pretty rare these days.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #123)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:49 PM

139. Gotta remember

that even since (sometime 200x i'd have to check my archived blog when i started reading (not registered or posted here)) DU
sometime during bush2 early before iraq2

the democrats here have ...correction, the level of democrats joining here have moved right
the old crew (and yes i recognize ya sabrina 1) aren't

but during the bush years and early obama years, a lot of 'center' 'republican light' 'third way' 'democrat in name only' joined here

and whilst i liked their input, they now try to bring DU to the right it seems

and that...i dislike

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:24 AM

3. Not since take over by DLC / Third Way. Now a front for corp orgs

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Response to on point (Reply #3)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:30 AM

4. The funny thing is that people don't get it.

There are always professional pundits and strategists that castigate democrats for taking positions to far to the left.

But they forget that the DLC went out of business because Democratic voters despised what they were doing to the party. (they were replaced by the Third-way).

And how many Blue Dogs are left in congress now? Why do people think running to right to win a "red state" rather than articulating progressive positions on bread and butter issues is a good idea? It fails constantly. Rahm Emmanuel tried it when he and Carville were hand picking DLC candidates for congress and most of them failed badly.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #4)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:28 AM

6. You took the right message from te two mid terms where the Third Way lost us

the House and the Senate. They don't listen to the people, they listen to their highly paid and clearly wrong headed political 'professionals'.

You are correct that there are very few Blue Dogs left in Congress, people are now refusing to hold their noses to vote for the 'lesser evil' because we've seen the results of that strategy.

Democrats want Democrats, not Dinos, and they've said so for several years now, keeping Progressives in their seats while abandoning Third Way candidates.

And the response from the Third Way is to 'blame the voters'. THAT isn't working too well either.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #6)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:53 AM

125. My congressman is a bluedog and I hate him

In prior elections I voted for him (he never has had any real competition), but this time I didn't vote for him in either the primary or GE. I left my ballot blank for that position. Fuck him and his 3rd way politics. He is just a Republican lite.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #125)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:04 AM

127. That's what's happening now. People held their noses with promises of 'just vote for the person with

the 'd' so we can have a majority. For a while, during the Bush era, it made some sense I suppose, but now we have seen how it worked out.

The party lost the House and Senate because they WANT Third Way/Blue Dog candidates so they keep pushing them, and losing.

Sorry you are stuck with a Dino. Maybe the people could find a good candidate to run against him next time. There are some progressive orgs that are doing that and had a lot of success in the mid terms with their choices.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #127)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:19 AM

129. I believe there is a push back in the district to find someone to run against him

the next time around. Part of the problem is the way the congressional district is shaped. It covers a lot of rural area all the way over to the Oregon coast. Plus it is a weird ass shape:



It covers 5 counties some of which are a good distance from each other. I'm registered up in Tillamook (because I'm overseas), but the same damn district covers all the way down to Salem and over to Clackamas.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #4)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:49 AM

15. Re: the Blue Dogs...

 

Many of them didn't support President Obama's agenda on key votes. Kinda understandable, given that many of them were in districts with a lot of conservative Republican voters and had only gotten into office in 2006 and 2008 in pro-Democratic, anti-Bush cycles.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #15)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:08 PM

32. and many of them are on DU perpetuating ignorance.

bashing the left, including centrists.

No I will not dig up links.

I've been around here long enough to see it happen daily.

I'm with Bernie, A socialist Democrat.

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Response to Phlem (Reply #32)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:57 PM

103. What I HONESTLY dont get is those who support Bernie, or Elizabeth, mostly now

Bernie as it is clear she isnt running, who do so with the attitude, I assume, that if he doesnt win the nomination, they are either not voting or voting 3rd party because Hillary is soooooo bad.



I dont get it because if your choice is between two corp politicians, both bought off by Wall Street, but one is so drastically backwards on social issues that people's livelihoods and actual LIVES are threatened by their sick twisted beliefs, and the other isnt any of those things, then what the hell!


I will work for Bernie and donate to his campaign, but the minute he is out of the race IF THAT HAPPENS, I will immediately transition to the remaining candidate, no matter who it is, for these very important reasons.


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Response to NoJusticeNoPeace (Reply #103)

Mon May 18, 2015, 08:03 PM

121. I don't think people are really worrying about what to do in the GE at this point. They are working

for Bernie with the intention of winning the nomination. As so many people are saying re Bernie's candidacy, 'what a thrill it would be to be able to vote FOR someone you truly believe will be on the right side of the issues, fighting for the PEOPLE.

So, speaking for myself, I know I'll be working for him in the GE.

Can't understand the need to say 'but what if' when you are engaged in the job of winning. That causes people to lose enthusiasm which is the most valuable commodity in terms of winning.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #4)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:04 PM

26. A slight tweak to your post

The DLC didn't go out of business. They have entrenched themselves into the leadership positions of our party. When they took control of the DNC, they no longer needed the DLC. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz in the House, and Schumer in the Senate about to be anointed after Harry Reid leaves. And then of course there's Obama, the epitome of a Third Wayer.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #26)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:14 PM

36. Well...

Technically they did go out of business as an organization. Sure, some of the past members are still in the business of politics and their membership is still (foolishly) overrepresented in leadership positions in the party, but the organization dissolved in 2011.

I think you are more essentially and operationally correct though whereas I am only being technically correct. You trump that aspect of my argument.

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Response to on point (Reply #3)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:33 AM

5. Yes, that is true. But they bristle when you talk about that. Yet, when they dismiss Bernie

as someone who will be 'good for the campaign because he will force Hillary to the Left', they are admitting the right wing swing of the party.

I just want to make sure that people understand that since we are still being told that our party represents US and not Wall St, no Democrat should NEED to be dragged over to the Left during a political campaign. They should already be there, leading the way, as Bernie is.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #5)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:30 PM

70. On point about causing Hillary to shift to the "left."...

 

MSM waxes long and hard about the Left, then says Hillary may have to swing to the Left. Jeebus

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:38 AM

7. the only reason he's running is to win.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:41 AM

8. it is not an all or nothing argument you are making. sanders and clinton agree on like 90% of issues

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #8)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:44 AM

11. +1

 

Why is this so hard to understand?

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #11)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:45 AM

13. then where would the battle be? nt

 

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #11)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:51 AM

17. It's not hard to understand. What IS hard to understand is why any Democratic candidate would need

to be dragged to the Left.

Maybe because of their stand on certain issues?

And if you have two candidates one of which has always been on the Left regarding the issues that Democratic voters care about, why is that candidate the one to be dismissed, to be called 'unelectible' and whose only function is to 'drag' the other candidate over to where s/he is?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #17)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:56 AM

20. why does sanders have to be dragged to the left with gun issues?

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #20)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:04 PM

27. Why does Hillary have to be dragged to the Left on Foreign Policy and Economic issues?

Why don't you try to talk positively about YOUR candidate, Hillary, rather than trying to tear down Sanders?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #27)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:07 PM

30. i am not tearing the man down, stating fact, that he has to be dragged to the left with gun issues

 

i am telling you. if you make sanders ALL liberal and clinton ALL rw, you fail in argument.

it really is not about either. it is what you are arguing. it is not facts, reality, logical or pragmatic, in any form.

it is DRAMA created.

they are both liberal.

they see differently on a few issues.

one side, clinton sees more liberally

another side, sanders sees more liberally.

and they agree mostly.

why is THAT such a challenge for you?

and why do you see facts, tearing anyone down?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #30)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:14 PM

35. What was 'liberal' about Bush's Iraq War? About Libya? About the Patriot Act? About

all those Bush policies forced on the people and supported by far too many 'democrats'?

Where does Hillary stand on the Chained CPI?

What is Liberal about connecting SS to the Deficit?

What is Liberal about the TPP?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #35)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:16 PM

37. side step, shuffle, side step shuffle. no thanks. i do not want to do this dance with you

 

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #17)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:16 AM

124. Because the 'mainstream' knows nothing of him, for starters.

Clinton is mainstream, for better or worse, but she's a hell of a lot better than anyone in the clown car.
I love Bernie, and will vote for anyone who wins the primaries. Period. A rethug is NOT an option.

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #124)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:00 AM

126. We have two declared candidates right now. I support the one who best

represents me and intend to help him win the nomination.

I don't really understand the constant references to what we will do 18 months for now.

My goal is to make sure that when that time comes, I and millions of other people will have a candidate we can enthusiastically vote FOR.

I am supporting bernie because like millions of Americans I am tired of hearing 'well, s/he's way better than the Republican'.

So I'm going to do all I can to make sure we don't have to listen to that any more. That we have a candidate we can feel enthusiastic about, knowing that he, up to now, has matched his actions to his words for a very long time.

Then once we take care of the primary, I am looking forward to being able to support him against the Republican.

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #124)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:45 AM

132. The mainstream knew nothing about Obama too

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #8)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:47 AM

14. We have two parties. Attacking the Left is attacking the Democratic Party.

Stating that a candidate needs to be dragged to the Left, is saying they need to be reminded which party they belong to, which voters they are going to need in order to win. If that is necessary, then there is no guarantee that they will continue to be on the Left once elected.

I prefer a candidate who has no need to be dragged anywhere.

Their record should be enough to show where they stand, not 'nudging' by other candidates.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #14)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:50 AM

16. you are creating the drama i do not paly in. again. pragmatically. realistically. logically.

 

sanders and clinton agree on like 90% of the democratic issues.

there is not even a reason to help you create a all or nothing argument. it is not even factually and true, what you are arguing.

bring it to a factual discussion, then ok.

but this?

no. drama. filler. noise.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #16)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:58 AM

22. I didn't create the argument. I am RESPONDING to the 'drama' you refer to.

All Democrats support the issues where Sanders and Clinton agree, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

But on some major, extremely important issues, they are far apart as their records show.

So, considering this, the notion that the one who is 99% on the Left for the past several decades is the one to be dismissed as 'unelectable' or who will serve only the purpose of 'dragging the supposedly ONLY electible candidate to the Left' is simply ludicrous and it will be pointed out as often as it is used to attempt to undermine the only candidate currently in the race who needs no 'dragging' anywhere.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #22)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:59 AM

23. you are creating drama arguing this as an all or nothing sum.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #23)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:17 PM

38. Where is the 'drama' about stating a FACT? We have two parties. Is there another one

we should know about?

I am Left on almost every major issue which is why I am a DEMOCRAT.

If I were Right on the issues I would be a Republican.

I didn't create the system, I merely try to function within it.

That means I do not attack the LEFT because I AM THE LEFT according to our current system.

Anyone who speaks about The Left in third party terms is not on the Left. One doesn't refer to one's own family as 'THAT FAMILY OVER THERE'.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #38)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:20 PM

40. "Where is the 'drama'" i have already told you a number of times what the drama is you create

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #40)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:29 PM

44. You told me that the two dem candidates agree about 90% of the issues. I asked for a source

for that number. You attacked Bernie while defending Hillary. Which is fine, she is clearly your candidate. But you told me nothing to point out where the 'drama' is in responding what has now become a 'mantra', that Sanders is in this race ONLY to 'drag Hillary to the Left'.

That is not drama, unless you are denying that this has ever been stated. It is a fact.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #44)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:41 PM

51. saying bernie is right on the gun issue with democratic party is not an attack. see? more drama

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #16)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:59 AM

134. It must be painful to lose an argument this badly.

 

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #14)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:54 AM

18. another point. you are arguing even on the 10% of disagreement it is all or nothing. even that 10%

 

is NOT all or nothing. since obama did address wallstreet and corporations and supreme court citizens and banks and minimum wage.

he was only able to get so far, or not at all dealing with the congress and supreme crt.

but, he did address them.

you cannot deny him that fact.

warren nor sanders are all and obama and clinton, nothing.

you are leaving out facts

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #18)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:02 PM

24. Where did Hillary get with the SC? What legislation did she propose that was passed into law?

And this old argument about the records of members of Congress was dragged up years ago, by those who were trying to undermine Democrats who were TELLING THE TRUTH.

I have the details on why that is a specious argument, and should not appear on a Democratic forum.

Why? Because members of Congress are not judged by how many bills they get passed, FEW EVER SUCCEED IN DOING THAT.

They are judged by their VOTES on GOOD legislation and bad legislation. That is their main job.

And they are judged by the bills they SPONSOR.

So if you want to have that argument, I will write a detailed OP tearing that particular argument apart, which I have done so many times over the past ten years.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #24)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:02 PM

25. i was referring to obama's presidency

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #8)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:55 AM

19. I find it closer to 50%

On many social issues, like gay marriage and abortion, Hillary is right there with him. But she loses on foreign policy and economic issues. I am also curious to know where she stands on NSA wiretapping, drones in the US, militarizing police and several other issues.

My bigger issue is can I trust her. The perfect example is her stance on NAFTA fr when Bill was elected to 2008 and how she reversed positions, at least publicly, for political expedience.

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Response to Exilednight (Reply #19)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:57 AM

21. as a whole, it is reported clinton is with sanders like 90%. a ridiculously high number.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #21)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:08 PM

31. Reported by whom? I have not seen a source for that. She is with him on the issues ALL Dems

support, minority issues, women's issues etc. No one can even claim to be a Democrat without being supportive of those issues. But on almost everything else it is hard to tell, except on Wall St and War eg, because so far Hillary has not been clear on where she stands.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #8)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:06 PM

29. 90% of the issues?

 

What issues might those be? A side by side comparison sounds like a good idea. Let's start with war and peace then work our way down to mundane issues like public education, taxation, foreign policy, income distribution, banking, energy, climate change and trade policy just for starters. No vague populist generalizations please, only specifics policy recommendations.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #29)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:09 PM

33. tell you what. you have all of the primary to educate yourself on all these issues.

 

if you do not know this stuff, then it will be a productive use of your time.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #33)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:48 PM

54. I already know this stuff.

 

To suggest that Clinton and Sanders agree on 90% of the issues is like saying that sheep dogs and wolves agree 90% of the time on the issue of sheep herding.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #54)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:49 PM

56. good for you. then what a waste of my time to type it all out. which is what i figured

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #56)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:53 PM

59. No, it would be useful

 

for you to try and type it out if you really believe it. It might prove both disturbing and enlightening for you.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #59)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:59 PM

61. ty, no. lol. i am not in the need, regardless what you feel.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #61)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:12 PM

65. OK, have a nice day.

 

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #65)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:13 PM

66. always. you, too

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #33)


Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:42 AM

9. The national Party is right of center.

The people are to the left of the clowns in the Beltway.
And left is a relative term when looking at the Republicans. To them anyone to the left of Temujin is a liberal.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:43 AM

10. Agreed. The Democratic Party is the mainstream, center-left party in the American system

 

Emphasis on "mainstream" and "center." I have no illusions about that.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 11:45 AM

12. Excellent post

 

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:05 PM

28. He won't be in the General election in 2016.

There will be a Democratic candidate and a Republican candidate.
I am supporting the Democratic candidate in the general election. Come 2016 that is what matters.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #28)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:11 PM

34. The Democrat will be Bernie! So excited to have a Dem candidate to be enthusiastic over, as are

millions of others now.

People are so grateful to him for giving us this chance to elect someone who has had a consistent stand on the most important issues, from Bush's Iraq War to CU to the TPP among so many other issues.

No need ever to have to defend him against the expected smears, all we have to do is to post to his own record. Now THAT is something to be excited about.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #34)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:17 PM

39. Well we will see. I doubt he will be the nominee.

Go ask my wife who votes every election who Bernie is. She never heard of him. My wife represents the majority of the Dem electorate. We live in a bubble and an echo chamber here at DU.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #39)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:24 PM

42. I asked one of my best friends. She had never heard of him either. So I told her all about him

told her where he stands on the issues. Then showed her some of his statements, videos etc.

Now she is an enthusiastic supporter of a candidate for the first time since I've known her as she is not particularly interested, sadly, in politics.

I have to credit Bernie for ending that apathy. I know she is now telling others about him and that is how he will win.

Once people learn about them, they support him.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #42)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:30 PM

45. Well my wife will watch reality TV up till the night

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #45)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:34 PM

46. That's too bad. Then she probably isn't knowledgeable about politics in general. Maybe you could

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #46)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:39 PM

50. No way. We get along because we let each other

run our lives as we see fit.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:22 PM

41. what an astonishing level of self-delusion

I love Bernie and will vote for him with pride, but to claim the Democratic Party as a whole is "the Left" is to be intentionally ignorant of history, both recent and distant.

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Response to TheSarcastinator (Reply #41)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:26 PM

43. I am responding to the claims that Bernie is only in this race to 'drag' Hillary to the Left.

If you agree that anyone running for the Democratic nomination needs to be dragged the 'left' on some key issues, such as economics, SS, the TPP, then I can see where you are coming from.

I as a Democrat want a candidate who is already on the 'left' on these issues. And a whole lot of other issues.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #43)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:19 PM

68. I think he's coming from a position

of understanding the history of the left in the US, which has not been in the Democratic party but rather comprised of communists, socialists, and anarchist labor leaders and academics, who were systematically deported, imprisoned, and purged. I think your context wasn't clear as as such is going to lead to a variety of comments, but that's not such a bad thing. You shouldn't, however, assume that he is limited in his understanding by what was in your head when you wrote the OP.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:34 PM

47. Is that a pretty ego-centric view ...

 

that you/your political views (or, even the views of the people that you agree with) represent the center of the party?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #47)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:39 PM

49. I don't know, is it? I am a Democrat because that is the party that most represents my, mostly left

leaning views.

I certainly could never fit in the other party.

How do you mean 'ego-centric' views?

Don't most Democrats share views on most important issues? And are not most of the views, left views, on SS, on FP, on Economcs, on Civil Rights, on minority issues etc.?

What right wing views do Dems hold? I am aware that most Dems do hold some conservative views. But since there are only two parties, those who hold mostly Left views are Dems and vice versa.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:35 PM

48. This is just flat out untrue.

The Democratic Party is not the "left". They are an establishment party in one of the most reactionary, conservative countries. They are quite conservative by world standards, and are certainly nowhere near as left as what limited leftist movements we have in the United States.

If you wanted to say that "The Democratic Party are the Liberals in this country.", I would agree. But they are not the left.

I am not represented by the Democratic Party.

Please do not diminish the true, radical left embodied by people in the Black Lives Matter movements, in labor groups, and others. Their accomplishments are not those of the Democratic Party. Do not help the establishment to co-opt those movements as they have successfully done so many times in the past. It helps to obscure history, and takes away from what the left in this country has been able to change.

Sanders is a much better person than most any politician out there. He has been consistent in representing the liberal wing of the party. That, I do not disagree with. But he still works within the framework of capitalism, and that means he is not "left" beyond the very narrow scope of US politics.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #48)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:43 PM

53. At this point, I probably couldn't agree with you more. I am no longer represented by this party

in its current Third Way controlled iteration.

My Op however is a response to the multiple statements that Bernie running in this race is a 'good thing ONLY because he will drag Hillary to the Left'.

Clearly that says she is not to the Left. Yet VOTERS consistently show that THEY are most definitely and overwhelmingly to the Left on the issues.

Bernie is NOT in the race to drag anyone to the left and I would like to see an end to that particular meme.

AND those making that claim, are actually agreeing with YOU, that the Dem party is not on the left, but the voters ARE which is why Hillary must move to the left in order to win.

It's a bit complex I admit, but the pretext is that the Dem Party is where the voters are. So long as they make that claim, I will go with it and challenge them on something they have no answer for.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #53)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:48 PM

55. No, that makes more sense.

I didn't realize the context you were writing the OP in

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #53)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:50 PM

58. "she is not to the Left. " again. your all or nothing sum... argument. she is not left, at ALL?

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #58)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:57 PM

74. What does 'good that Bernie is in the race, he won't win BUT he will help

to 'nudge' Hillary to the Left' mean to you?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #74)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:59 PM

75. bernie is more left than some on gun issues. not AS left as others. that is what it MEANS to me.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #75)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:03 PM

76. I know you support Hillary, and you must know

that those who support her have stated that 'Bernie will help drag her to the Left'. Why would she need to be dragged to the Left?

I see you are attempting to smear Bernie by repeating over and over again regardless of whether it has anything to do with the topic, his position on guns. Since I too live in a very rural area, his position on guns in rural areas is where most Dems in rural areas stand on that particular issue.

We get it, you can now try to explain why YOUR candidate needs to be 'dragged to the Left'.

I believe that every Dem SHOULD ALREADY be on the Left. So since no one has suggested that we 'drag Bernie to the Left', why would any Dem say that he is 'unelectable'?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #76)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:08 PM

78. " I know you support Hillary" no you do not.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #78)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:31 PM

89. Okay, then why are you attacking Bernie? I've seen you do it repeatedly. Which is fine, so long as

you understand that his supporters will point out where you are wrong.

I've seen support Hillary by attacking Bernie, so naturally I assume you support her. Again, your choice, but ours to correct wrong information.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #89)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:32 PM

90. you keep defining stating sanders position on guns as an attack. that is your bad. not mine.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #90)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:47 PM

96. There are literally hundreds of issues that Bernie has taken an outspoken stand on and backed up his

words with his votes.

Someone thought it would be a great idea to talk about one issue. Guns. Hoping to discredit him. As a supporter of any candidate, that last thing I want to do is play into that attempt at a smear campaign. So when I see someone doing it, I have to assume they are jumping on that bandwagon, especially when they repeat and repeat it over and over again.

It is YOUR 'bad' since it is your choice, not mine, to continue to talk about ONE issue out of HUNDREDS even after it has been explained that Bernie's rating with the NRA is ZERO. Because they KNOW his position is NOT even close to theirs, and that it is the position of MOST Democrats who live in rural, farming areas of the country.

Every farmer where I live owns a gun, they need those guns to protect their livestock.

Even in mostly gun free European countries, FARMERS own guns, for the same reason and have for centuries.

So to continue to bring this up to create the impression that his position on guns is a Right Wing position to take, when it is clearly not, WILL continue to create the impression that you are attempting to use it against him.

That's just the way it is. You're free to do so of course and we are then free to determine WHY you are doing it and that is what will happen.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #96)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:49 PM

98. you asked a question about pulling to the left. i answered. now, shuffle shuffle, side. that is all.

 

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #89)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:40 PM

93. btw... i have probably said at least 20 times, i feel sanders can win.

 

and the demographics he has and why, he can win.

oh oh.... also talked about my first voter 17 yr old son the day sanders declared. a number of posts. his first comment, he is a socialist, he cant win.

and me educating son he was no more than an 80's dem. do the research. he is discussing the issues that are important to youth today.

i mean, many many posts. i gotta wonder why you do not see even one of the number of supportive posts i have made about sanders.

nada? none?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #93)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:56 PM

102. Good we agree on that. He can win and yes, he does have the attention of younger voters

because he is in touch with them and their issues. I am glad to hear your son is paying attention. In my experience the younger generation is way more informed today than many of the older generation who are set in their ways and often vote out of habit rather than any real effort to understand the issues.

Bernie, eg, was one of the first politicians to understand and say so publicly, what OWS was all about, meeting those young people, listening to their concerns etc.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #102)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:58 PM

104. i have repeatedly said. i am around lots of first time voters. i have kinda handed this election

 

to them, with trust. and ya.... we discuss. a lot. always have. i have a lot of faith in our young voters. and i easily see sanders smack in the middle of them in conversation.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #104)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:00 PM

105. That's good to know. I have faith in the younger generation also, it is going to be their world

and they seem to be acutely aware that it is going to be up to them to make sure it is a better one than they are looking at right now.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 12:42 PM

52. The Republican Party has slid deep into Fascism the Democratic Party much less Fascist.

Some in the Democratic Party are decidedly not Fascist.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:01 PM

62. Only because the left was systematically purged

imprisoned and deported. To say the Democratic Party is the left is to say there is no real left. The Democratic Party has always been an establishment party. The Communist Party, anarchists, and socialists (not Bernie type, but revolutionary socialists) were the left. What remains of the left is liberalism, which is not left. It is an ideology that upholds the legitimacy of capitalism and free markets. No where else in the world would the Democratic party--even your idea of what it should be--constitute the left.

It's unfortunate Americans learn so little about their nation's history, and what they do learn is the conservative, top down history of great men. Sanders is indeed left of the middle on a number of issues, certainly not all. On some, like Israel and guns, he is quite squarely on the right.

In much of the world, leftism means working class solidarity. It means standing up to capital, it means the poor and workers coming together in solidarity to oppose capital. What people here imagine to be he left is a fundamentally middle- and upper- middle class ethos that excludes the subaltern, defines their interests as less, as Third Way. The subaltern have issues that relate to their very survival, yet the white middle- and upper-middle class that seeks to exclude from consideration any who don't focus on their specific issues, concerns that come about due to their anger that they no longer reap the benefits of the American system as they did for decades, while the majority was denied basic rights and lived in crippling poverty. Hence the hearkening back to an era when the white middle-class continued to sit atop a system of inequality. People of course deny that because they refuse to imagine a reality outside their own. Their views, their experience, they assume to be universal. That assumption of universality is a function of class and race entitlement. That it is not universal is evident in the kinds of issues they focus on, all good issues, but by no means inclusive of the experiences of the poor, working class, and people of color--the subaltern who have been at the bottom of America's socioeconomic and political system since the inception of the nation, especially during the halcyon days of the Democratic Party that many here hearken back to.

So yes, The Democratic party represents the left in a country that for generations has had no significant left because of political repression. The "left" that didn't threaten capital remained, and it continues to uphold the capitalist system even as it rails against "corporations" because ultimately it refuses to address the systemic and pervasive nature of a system and a society built at its very core around inequality and oppression. It instead imagines "corporatism" to be embodied in one member of the political elite vs. another, and in doing so upholds the legitimacy of capitalist exploitation.

Only in America would people call an establishment political party the left, but that is the effect of national mythology and the long history of purges that has left the baby boomer generation, above all (since they were educated in the wake of McCarthyism), without a foundation in leftist political theory.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #62)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:54 PM

73. Good post and I agree with most of what you say. America was an idea, our Constitution was

intended to be a 'moving document', to be added to as the country, hopefully, evolved.

The Dem party purports to represent the 'left' which in this country is generally interpreted as those who support equal rights for all Americans, minorities, women, the poor, the elderly, disabled, while the other party clearly believes that the government has no obligation to help anyone.

America is far behind in its evolvement, other nations which do have Socialist (as opposed to Communist) governments would view people who are regarded here as 'extreme left' as moderates.

However, so long as there is this pretext that we do have a 'left' party, mostly to keep up the illusion of democracy, there needs to be consistency.

It is not therefore, consistent with the pretext, consistent to say with a straight face that a major Democratic candidate needs to be dragged to the Left. And I am merely pointing that out.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #73)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:06 PM

77. And I completely respect your support of Sanders

as a more authentic representative of some of those values.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #77)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:10 PM

80. Thank you, I appreciate your civility and thoughtful posts. n/t

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:02 PM

63. One Low Bar

Yes they are left of the republicans but that would apply to about anyone left of Mussolini.

The democratic party needs to be way closer to the Green Party than it is now.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #63)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:10 PM

108. Yes, it does and only one candidate so far can pull the entire party back from the brink

it hovering over. That is why I am supporting him, because the entire party needs to be dragged away from the right of center position it is currently in.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:03 PM

64. Answer: the Democratic Party is also the Party of the Center...

...which has largely been abandoned by the Republicans.

We need candidates who can appeal to a center-left coalition of voters; appealing soling to the votes on the left is not a winning strategy.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #64)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:26 PM

69. Right now, the "Party" doesn't claim Any identification other than a vague corp. centrism.

 

I think it wants no part of the left, as it is continuously defined and updated by the GOP. The Party has conceded the field to the GOP in terms of identifying itself; it just runs from whatever the GOPers' dialogue de jour is.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #64)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:08 PM

79. Republicans have their own party. Let THEM stay in that party and FIX IT. We don't need to change

this party by moving it to the RIGHT in order to attract those disillusioned Republicans.

The Dem party needs to start worrying about its own Disillusioned Democrats.

And this is why the Dem Party lost two mid terms, with that kind of thinking.

WE got them the House and Senate and the WH.

Then, as you say, they decided they needed to 'appeal to moderate Republicans' by pushing Third Way candidates rather than what voters expect from their party, Progressive candidates. Voters rejected those candidates, so the theory of attracting moderate Republicans didn't even work.

So when will the party wake up and start giving us candidates who represent us? Let the Republicans take care of their own party.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #79)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:45 PM

94. "this is why the Dem Party lost two mid terms"

...and won one midterm and two Presidentials with a mix of liberal candidates (Grayson, Warren) where they could win, and Centrists (McCaskill, Donnelly) where THEY could win.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #94)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:47 PM

97. i thought the issue was gerrymandering? i know mid term does not get out dem vote.

 

we seem to do well with pres. but... i thought now, it is all in the gerrymandering?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #97)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:50 PM

99. ...at the House level; gerrymandering doesn't affect Senate or Presidential

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #94)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:52 PM

101. The Dem Party lost the Senate and the House by refusing to listen to the voters.

The lost most of their Blue Dogs/Centrists. They did not lost most of the Progressives. Voters turned to local politics where they feel they DO have a vote and some amazing victories for Progressive issues AND candidates across the country. They participated in the National Elections ONLY to support Progressive candidates.

Now the party can continue to ignore all this, as they did after their loss, or start understanding that voters are NOT stupid, which seems to be the consensus of the political insider class, in fact in my experience having experience with both, voters are way, way smarter than any political insider I have ever met.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #101)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:09 AM

128. Many of the people who lost also ran away from Obama and the ACA

They were cowards to play duck and cover politics. Why anyone on DU would justify supporting moving to the center to support corporate D's, especially when they act like that is beyond my understanding. Geesh........

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #64)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:38 PM

109. Hillary Clinton remains _NOT_ the answer

 

The Democratic Party as it stands right now is center of right, and lurching the wrong direction.

Bernie is the ONLY candidate that will correct the direction the Democratic Party goes. Hillary has nothing to offer and will triangulate her position that is unacceptable.

Bernie has made his position clear and has never shied away from talking about it

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Response to eloydude (Reply #109)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:38 PM

111. Once again, explain how Sanders wins a national election...

His positions are worthless if he doesn't get elected to implement them.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #111)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:43 PM

113. The forgotten left...

 

The one that has no interest in selecting the lesser of two evils.

They want a real choice.

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Response to eloydude (Reply #113)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:47 PM

114. see. here is you major, kick in the ass, fail. lesser evil? some of us actually see the harm

 

that will be done to so many many lives, if a repug wins.

lesser evil my ass

it is a matter of some peoples lives. like women. like black men. like gays

so you go on with you bad ass, creating clinton right their with a rw. that is your shame, that you can turn your back on so many lives

lesser evil.

that disgusts me.

in the simple nonfactual stupidity of the statement.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #114)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:57 PM

115. So you foist Hillary on me?

 

Okay. That's fine, you can foist on me. I don't have to do shit for Hillary. All she gets is my vote. She doesn't get my time, money or effort.

Bernie does.

He gets a small donation for the next 12 months. It's not much, but it means something to me.

He represents my beliefs.

So I fight for Bernie. Hillary represents 0% of my interests, and know she is giving the 99% lip service.

Go ahead, get the White House ready for a coronation... the scepter needs a polishing... so does that jewel crown of America....

Oh and must order that royal cape fitting for a Queen.



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Response to eloydude (Reply #115)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:25 PM

117. i do not "foist" shit on you. i am calling the "lesser of two evil" bullshit comment you made. nt

 

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:13 PM

67. As a socialist, I can tell ya that just ain't so.

 

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #67)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:20 PM

84. I know. But that is what we are told. And so long as we are told that, then we should demand

consistency when it comes to the candidates we are presented with. I'm willing to go along with the pretext, to the point of insisting that those who are in power, make it a reality by presenting us with and supporting candidates that fit that pretext and not to expect voters to turn a blind eye to the inconsistencies of demanding our votes with no input into the choices we are presented with.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #84)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:40 PM

92. Excellent point, and I agree.

 

I'd sure like to be able to vote for a genuinely leftist Democratic presidential candidate in the general election, that's for sure.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 01:42 PM

72. But our leaders are all far right republicans. And strangely enough, the party is now useless

 

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #72)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:46 PM

95. President Obama is a "Far Right Republican"

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #95)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:41 PM

110. Obama already identified himself as a Reagan Republican

 

So hes already in the wrong party.

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Response to eloydude (Reply #110)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:49 AM

133. Yeah, that's right. Obama is a Republican!

I keep forgetting that.
Damn, I'm glad you came to DU to remind me!



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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:12 PM

81. The balance of left and right politics

has been shifted to the right since the late sixties. Perhaps Bernie could at least pull us back to a center position.

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Response to UglyGreed (Reply #81)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:28 PM

86. I would agree with anyone who says that Bernie's candidacy and eventual victory will be the

beginning of dragging the entire Dem Party to the Left.

But those who say he has no chance of winning 'but will help drag Hillary to the Left' are just plain wrong on every count. First he is a serious candidate and second, Hillary should already be on the Left so why would he need to do that? That is an acknowledgement imo, that she is not to the left nor is the party.

All the more reason why we need to support him imo.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #86)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:04 PM

106. Spot on

if a candidate needs to be dragged to the left then common sense would tell you that person does not have the left's best interests at heart. We fear that we must settle so settle we must.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:14 PM

82. I am going to support him in the primary

and the general if he gets to that point as a Democrat. If after I send him money, stuff envelopes and canvass for him he turns around and runs as an independent third party candidate I will feel totally used.

The right wing nuts in my neighborhood are all filled with glee at the thought of Bernie splitting the party and allowing their Republican candidate (which ever clown doesn't fall out of the clown bus) to win and taking some tea party congressmen in with him or her.

While I prefer him to Hillary right now, I prefer a Democrat to a Republican every time. You can see how the Bernie/Hillary thing is splitting the party by reading what is posted here on DU, or listening to Democrats at your local party office.

We need to be very vigilant that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot and send the country down the dumper due to our love for a progressive candidate.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #82)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:24 PM

85. Bernie is a man of his word. So I do not doubt him when he says 'I will not be a spoiler'.

I imagine he feels as you do, that any Democrat is better than what the other party is likely to nominate.

However, I object to people on the left who insist that he is 'unelectable' but will help to 'drag Hillary to the left'.

He IS electable, as he has certainly proven.

Both he and Hillary have run public office and been elected. Bernie more often than Hillary actually.

So it is time to put that meme to rest.

He is running for the WH and he isn't doing to to have an affect on any other candidate.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #85)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:30 PM

88. I agree that saying he is unelectable is not appropriate.

People said that about President Obama and he has been in the White House almost two terms now. I think I just distrust all politicians...I am looking for an honest progressive, Bernie strikes me a one I am just scared of being let down.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #88)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:36 PM

91. I know how you feel. We've all been disappointed so it's natural, and probably a good thing NOT

to totally trust any politician. Thomas Jefferson even warned voters never to trust any politician, including the Founding Fathers themselves. That voters needed to stay focused on the issues, not on politicians.

I am supporting Bernie BECAUSE of the issues, but if he ends up being a disappointment by abandoning any of his positions I probably will be disappointed, but not nearly as much as I have been in the past when I made the mistake of blindly supporting politicians themselves.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 02:19 PM

83. Until recently I was registered Independent.

I gave up my life long membership in the Democratic Party the day after they voted Alito in SCOTUS. Back when all they were doing was keeping their powder dry. I registered Dem again for our last election because....Brownback. I had to vote for the one issue, lousy Democrat running against him because....Brownback. I was getting ready to go back to Independent because the Dems do not represent much of what I believe in but....Bernie Sanders. If he does not make it through the primaries he will be my write in choice. Even my very cynical son who gave up caring and just tried to live a happy life is getting ready to register where he lives now. Both of them and all their friends, early 30's mostly are ready to roll for him.

AFAIAC, it is about dammed time we were left again. Screw moving others that way. If they are not there now why even believe they mean it when they say it now?

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #83)

Mon May 18, 2015, 03:06 PM

107. Good for you, and you are exactly right. Why on earth would we want to take on the job of

'moving someone to the left' when we have someone who is already there?

Great to know your son and his friends are with Bernie. I think he will surprise a lot of people in how he appeals to young voters. They are listening and hearing what they have not been hearing up to now, someone who 'gets it'.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 04:42 PM

112. If the Democratic Party is The Left we are probably screwed.

 

Seems like a party mostly dominated by rich people and big companies.

But I like the overall points made in the OP post. Thanks for explaining.

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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #112)

Mon May 18, 2015, 05:10 PM

116. I think we are screwed. But I think BernieSanders gives us an opportunity to

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 10:57 PM - Edit history (1)

begin what will probably be a very long journey back to having a party that represents the people.

This ship badly needs to be turned around, and I don't see any of the corporate candidates of either party being able to do that.

Imo, if we blow this chance then I don't think we will get another chance for a long time.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #116)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:25 AM

130. Yes it does seem like the Sanders 2016 campaign has a sense of urgency about it.

 

I mean the grassroots part of the campaign. Like people understand things are getting desperate in the country and the democracy is slipping away because of corporate power and concentrated wealth. And we have to do something about it, like now, or it could be too late to fix things.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Mon May 18, 2015, 10:44 PM

122. Well, you tried

I have to hand it to you. You attempted to have a discussion, put forth an argument. But as always, the discussion gets derailed and nothing of value comes of it. But good try, the left has to realize that this maneuver to the center-right to claim the moral high ground in terms of issues is just that, manipulation. They do not get to claim to be social justice warriors because that's all they have. The left has all of it and in a candidate such as Bernie Sanders has always been fighting for it.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:42 AM

131. 47 years.

Hillary has been a Democrat for 47 years longer than Bernie.

47 years!!!

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #131)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:44 AM

136. Bernie's been a Democrat his whole life.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #136)

Wed May 20, 2015, 03:10 AM

137. Hahahaha!!!!!!!

OMG, you are funny today!

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #137)

Wed May 20, 2015, 01:17 PM

138. Not nearly as funny as you! Lol!

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