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Thu May 21, 2015, 12:17 PM

Conspiracy Theories that turned out not to be "Theories".

A disturbing look at 10 events not taught in schools when studying the history of the United States.

Here is number 5 on the list.... CIA under Reagan running drugs to raise money for the Contras.

___________________________

During the 1980s, the CIA facilitated the sale of cocaine to the Crips and Bloods street gangs of Los Angeles and funneled millions in drug profits to a Latin American guerrilla army.

It’s convoluted and complex, but it’s true.

Gary Webb’s book Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and the Crack Cocaine Explosion outlines how CIA-backed Contras smuggled cocaine into the U.S. and then distributed crack to Los Angeles gangs, pocketing the profits. The CIA directly aided the drug dealers to raise money for the Contras.

“This drug network,” Webb wrote in a 1996 San Jose MercuryNews article, “opened the first pipeline between Colombia’s cocaine cartels and the black neighborhoods of Los Angeles, a city now known as the ‘crack’ capital of the world. The cocaine that flooded in helped spark a crack explosion in urban America . . . and provided the cash and connections needed for L.A.’s gangs to buy automatic weapons.”

Worth pointing out: On December 10, 2004, Webb committed suicide under suspicious circumstances, namely the fact that he used two bullets to shoot himself in the head.

__________________________

http://www.nationofchange.org/2015/05/20/10-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true/

203 replies, 26856 views

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Reply Conspiracy Theories that turned out not to be "Theories". (Original post)
MysticHuman May 2015 OP
samsingh May 2015 #1
niyad May 2015 #2
McCamy Taylor May 2015 #155
Octafish May 2015 #3
Jesus Malverde May 2015 #138
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #140
Jesus Malverde May 2015 #141
Octafish May 2015 #4
WinkyDink May 2015 #191
hack89 May 2015 #5
dgibby May 2015 #6
JEB May 2015 #10
Octafish May 2015 #15
dgibby May 2015 #18
JEB May 2015 #21
BrotherIvan May 2015 #26
Enthusiast May 2015 #68
sulphurdunn May 2015 #180
awoke_in_2003 May 2015 #84
Anansi1171 May 2015 #154
OnyxCollie May 2015 #161
YoungDemCA May 2015 #44
JEB May 2015 #48
YoungDemCA May 2015 #51
JEB May 2015 #54
Jerry442 May 2015 #93
hack89 May 2015 #14
MohRokTah May 2015 #22
Schema Thing May 2015 #24
JEB May 2015 #45
Enthusiast May 2015 #174
truedelphi May 2015 #53
Schema Thing May 2015 #60
Schema Thing May 2015 #63
truedelphi May 2015 #65
Schema Thing May 2015 #73
MohRokTah May 2015 #71
Octafish May 2015 #36
YoungDemCA May 2015 #43
Octafish May 2015 #107
MohRokTah May 2015 #72
Schema Thing May 2015 #76
MohRokTah May 2015 #82
Schema Thing May 2015 #97
MohRokTah May 2015 #103
wildbilln864 May 2015 #117
MohRokTah May 2015 #119
wildbilln864 May 2015 #124
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
MohRokTah May 2015 #176
ProfessorGAC May 2015 #175
Jerry442 May 2015 #98
MohRokTah May 2015 #104
wildbilln864 May 2015 #118
MohRokTah May 2015 #120
wildbilln864 May 2015 #125
MohRokTah May 2015 #130
wildbilln864 May 2015 #131
MohRokTah May 2015 #132
wildbilln864 May 2015 #134
Octafish May 2015 #108
MohRokTah May 2015 #109
Octafish May 2015 #112
druidity33 May 2015 #113
Octafish May 2015 #129
wildbilln864 May 2015 #116
WinkyDink May 2015 #187
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply .
MohRokTah May 2015 #195
WinkyDink May 2015 #186
hifiguy May 2015 #40
YoungDemCA May 2015 #42
Jerry442 May 2015 #96
GoneFishin May 2015 #7
hack89 May 2015 #12
Mnemosyne May 2015 #8
hack89 May 2015 #11
Mnemosyne May 2015 #16
7962 May 2015 #17
SidDithers May 2015 #25
NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #28
sabrina 1 May 2015 #37
SidDithers May 2015 #49
Electric Monk May 2015 #62
sabrina 1 May 2015 #64
GoneFishin May 2015 #143
Rex May 2015 #78
MohRokTah May 2015 #133
NobodyHere May 2015 #33
NuclearDem May 2015 #86
NobodyHere May 2015 #87
Scootaloo May 2015 #114
OilemFirchen May 2015 #106
7962 May 2015 #9
hack89 May 2015 #13
sabrina 1 May 2015 #23
NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #29
sabrina 1 May 2015 #30
NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #31
sabrina 1 May 2015 #39
YoungDemCA May 2015 #46
sabrina 1 May 2015 #150
I hate liars May 2015 #181
sabrina 1 May 2015 #182
rhett o rick May 2015 #198
treestar May 2015 #135
sabrina 1 May 2015 #151
wildbilln864 May 2015 #152
sabrina 1 May 2015 #153
I hate liars May 2015 #183
MysticHuman May 2015 #202
YoungDemCA May 2015 #41
Rex May 2015 #75
alarimer May 2015 #79
Rex May 2015 #80
Logical May 2015 #169
I hate liars May 2015 #184
Rex May 2015 #193
Logical May 2015 #199
Rex May 2015 #194
Logical May 2015 #200
wildbilln864 May 2015 #115
Manifestor_of_Light May 2015 #158
hack89 May 2015 #170
Fast Walker 52 May 2015 #171
jwirr May 2015 #19
NuclearDem May 2015 #20
BrotherIvan May 2015 #27
sabrina 1 May 2015 #34
YoungDemCA May 2015 #47
sabrina 1 May 2015 #55
NuclearDem May 2015 #58
sabrina 1 May 2015 #66
NuclearDem May 2015 #70
progree May 2015 #32
tclambert May 2015 #38
progree May 2015 #56
freshwest May 2015 #139
tclambert May 2015 #178
freshwest May 2015 #179
bobthedrummer May 2015 #35
YoungDemCA May 2015 #50
MysticHuman May 2015 #203
hunter May 2015 #52
hootinholler May 2015 #57
truedelphi May 2015 #59
NuclearDem May 2015 #61
truedelphi May 2015 #67
NuclearDem May 2015 #69
truedelphi May 2015 #94
MisterP May 2015 #100
heaven05 May 2015 #74
Rex May 2015 #77
alarimer May 2015 #81
Rex May 2015 #83
leveymg May 2015 #89
Rex May 2015 #91
OffWithTheirHeads May 2015 #85
heaven05 May 2015 #88
dgibby May 2015 #92
NuclearDem May 2015 #99
GoneFishin May 2015 #144
snappyturtle May 2015 #95
BlueJazz May 2015 #90
hack89 May 2015 #101
wildbilln864 May 2015 #123
hack89 May 2015 #126
wildbilln864 May 2015 #128
GoneFishin May 2015 #145
BlueJazz May 2015 #146
Major Hogwash May 2015 #162
BlueJazz May 2015 #165
MohRokTah May 2015 #121
treestar May 2015 #136
Fast Walker 52 May 2015 #172
HassleCat May 2015 #102
valerief May 2015 #105
X_Digger May 2015 #110
YoungDemCA May 2015 #192
Blue_Tires May 2015 #111
MohRokTah May 2015 #122
freshwest May 2015 #142
MohRokTah May 2015 #148
freshwest May 2015 #149
Electric Monk May 2015 #159
freshwest May 2015 #160
Electric Monk May 2015 #157
MohRokTah May 2015 #164
LineLineLineLineLineReply .
Guy Whitey Corngood May 2015 #166
WinkyDink May 2015 #190
wildbilln864 May 2015 #127
Reter May 2015 #137
WinkyDink May 2015 #185
GoneFishin May 2015 #147
McCamy Taylor May 2015 #156
reddread May 2015 #168
nikto May 2015 #163
LineReply k
Romeo.lima333 May 2015 #167
Fast Walker 52 May 2015 #173
cstanleytech May 2015 #177
WinkyDink May 2015 #188
cstanleytech May 2015 #196
WinkyDink May 2015 #189
cstanleytech May 2015 #197
wildbilln864 May 2015 #201

Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:23 PM

1. kick

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:29 PM

2. thank you for pointing that out about webb's "suicide".

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Response to niyad (Reply #2)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:08 AM

155. Webb was a brave man.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:35 PM

3. Press went out of their way to help CIA ruin Gary Webb.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #3)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:03 PM

138. It was hersh what they did to Mr. Webb.

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Response to Jesus Malverde (Reply #138)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:28 PM

140. Rather un-Manning,

that Snowden job the mass-media did on Webb.

And sometimes when you want to scream, you're reduced to bad puns.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #140)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:30 PM

141. Yep!

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:39 PM

4. Gulf of Tonkin Incident is such crapola that NSA to this day doesn't like it mentioned.



One of the reasons to be wary when Washington uses secret intelligence as a basis for war.



Tonkin Gulf Intelligence "Skewed"
According to Official History and Intercepts


Newly Declassified National Security Agency Documents Show Analysts Made "SIGINT fit the claim" of North Vietnamese Attack

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 132 - Update


John Prados
National Security Archive

EXCERPT...

New York Times reporter Scott Shane wrote that higher-level officials at the NSA were "fearful that (declassification) might prompt uncomfortable comparisons with the flawed intelligence used to justify the war in Iraq."

CONTINUED...

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/press20051201.htm



Anyone ever hear OPLAN 34-A mentioned on tee vee or in history class?



Caro’s Flawed Tale of LBJ’s Rise

Exclusive: Author Robert Caro has labored through decades of his multi-volume study of Lyndon Johnson’s life, only now reaching LBJ’s presidency in The Passage of Power. But the much-praised book misses – or misrepresents – many of the key events, writes Jim DiEugenio.

By Jim DiEugenio
ConsortiumNews July 28, 2012

EXCERPT...

Caro mentions OPLAN 34A, the plan for covert operations against North Vietnam. The seed for this plan was approved by Johnson as part of NSAM 273 in late November of 1963. Caro actually calls it a “reaffirmation.” (Caro, p. 403) If what he means is a reaffirmation of Kennedy’s policies, then this is just wrong.

CONTINUED...

http://consortiumnews.com/2012/07/28/caros-flawed-tale-of-lbjs-rise/



Gee. It's been pretty much "Money trumps peace" ever since. What a coincidence.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #4)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:36 PM

191. Coincidences are fun! SO much nicer than to believe the 1% might not value our lives over war

 

profiteering!

Nobody ever wonders what the real motive was behind the unique million-dollar pay-outs to the WTC families, while true veterans and their families are shafted.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:45 PM

5. None of those theories defy logic or science

it doesn't take much to separate CTs into plausible or lunacy categories.

For example, just because Operations Northwoods was proposed does not mean that there were no real planes used in the 9/11 attacks but rather were holographic projections (a very popular 9/11 CT defended with great vigor on DU). Yet many 911 Truthers make that very argument.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:52 PM

6. I think real planes were used,

but it would take a lot to convince me that 9/11 wasn't either LIHOP or MIHOP. Considering all the lies the Cheney administration told to get us into war with Iraq, it would be foolish (IMO) for us to think they weren't involved.

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Response to dgibby (Reply #6)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:14 PM

10. It is certainly true that PNAC scum

 

were desperate for their "Pearl Harbor" moment.

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Response to JEB (Reply #10)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:21 PM

15. PNAC is still very well represented in the State Department

It's like PNAC never leaves. From ISP's RightWeb:

"Fuck the EU" Victoria Nuland, is married to PNAC co-founder Robert Kagan

Robert Kagan's brother is Frederick Kagan

Frederick Kagan's spouse is Kimberly Kagan

Brilliant people, big ideas, etc. The thing is, that's a lot of PNAC. And the PNAC approach to international relations means more wars without end for profits without cease, among other things detrimental to democracy, peace and justice.

What's amazing is how few people know they're still pounding the war drums and working the war levers.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #15)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:32 PM

18. Thanks.

I recently read that, but couldn't remember the name of the article. It's frightening to think about how many of these warmongers are still actively involved in government.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #15)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:58 PM

21. I find it very disheartening that the PNAC crew

 

was not purged when we got a Democratic executive.

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Response to JEB (Reply #21)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:30 PM

26. Me too

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Response to JEB (Reply #21)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:59 PM

68. Tells you something, doesn't it.

I know what it tells me.

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Response to JEB (Reply #21)

Fri May 22, 2015, 12:28 PM

180. PNAC and AIPAC

 

are just different acronyms for the same beast. That's why the PNAC crew was not and will not be purged anytime soon.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #15)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:58 PM

84. And one of their people

 

is a candidate for the GOP presidential primaries.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #15)

Fri May 22, 2015, 12:30 AM

154. Oh, you noticed that NeoCons are running policy from...

The Ukraine to Macedonia?

Aside from the strategic nuclear posturing, the missing or downed airplanes. Missing presidents and snap drills and near run-ins -and the threat of nuclear war....what did I leave out?

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Response to Octafish (Reply #15)

Fri May 22, 2015, 02:31 AM

161. I wish more people who examine the conspiracy that lead to the Iraq war

 

than argue over the melting point of steel.

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Response to JEB (Reply #10)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:03 PM

44. Evidence? Preferably some that isn't circumstantial...

 

Saying off-handedly that "absent a new Pearl Harbor, regime change won't happen in Iraq" in a report a few years before 9/11 looks bad with hindsight, but that doesn't mean anything.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #44)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:08 PM

48. Interesting theory there.

 

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Response to JEB (Reply #48)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:11 PM

51. Not a theory at all. The burden of proof is on those claiming LIHOP

 

They've never conducted an actual investigation - unless you think making YouTube videos and writing blog posts is equal to what the exhaustive investigations conducted by many agencies, with help from the scientific community and others, did.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #51)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:16 PM

54. You don't think the PNAC faithful

 

wanted a "Pearl Harbor" moment to trigger their policies? That was the only claim I asserted. Are you in favor of endless war?

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #44)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:43 PM

93. It wasn't an "off-handed" comment.

It was the keystone of their entire strategy. Kind of like if I said that someone really should use a {some kind of destructive thingy} to {do something really awful} to {someone really prominent in government} and it came to pass exactly as I said. I could probably look forward to a visit from the Secret Service.

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Response to dgibby (Reply #6)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:19 PM

14. There are plausible LIHOP or MIHOP CTs

no smoking gun evidence to date but they are plausible.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #14)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:01 PM

22. No, there really aren't. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #22)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:09 PM

24. LIHOP is what all the evidence shows.

If you (the POTUS and his admin) are given a briefing stating "Bin Laden determined to strike America using planes" (and I realize that may be conflating two separate briefings), then when Bin Laden does, not too long thereafter, strike America using planes - and you did NOTHING to try and protect America from such a strike, then by definition you "let" it happen.

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #24)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:06 PM

45. The look on w's face

 

when his reading of "My Pet Goat" was interrupted was as close to guilt as I ever saw on him

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Response to JEB (Reply #45)

Fri May 22, 2015, 08:58 AM

174. I detected fear and guilt. Like he knew it was coming but was still shocked.

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #24)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:15 PM

53. And I still entertain the notion of MIHOP -

The fact that Condie Rice told SF politician Willie Brown to back off from his use of the airlines on Sept 11th 2001, so he went and cancelled his trip to NYC on that day, and then, that she told reporters on CNN that she told him that, back in May of 2002 or 2003, this indicates that it could be far more nefarious than a "mere" LIHOP event.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #53)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:40 PM

60. I hadn't heard that, but it fits well with LIHOP



If I knew there was going to be an attack, and most likely using planes, any time now, I'd sure tell the people I cared about not to use planes - even if I didn't know exactly where or when.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #53)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:44 PM

63. btw, that seems to be myth



a twisting of something Brown did mention - but something not nefarious.

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #63)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:49 PM

65. Again, Condie Rice appeared on CNN and was interviewed by reporters.

She was interviewed on CNN herself and stated that she had advised Willie Brown to cancel his trip. And he did so. This was in May of 2002 or 2003.

I used to have the YouTube link, but it was years ago, and I don't know if the film footage of this is still up or not.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #65)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:31 PM

73. I'm not finding it. I think that would be all over the net if it existed.




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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #24)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:22 PM

71. Nonsense. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #22)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:51 PM

36. You must not know what Bush knew.

After getting briefed by CIA, he told the agent: "All right. You've covered your ass, now."

http://www.salon.com/2006/06/20/911pdb/

Gee. If you didn't know that, MohRokTah, I bet there's a lot more you think you know that's wrong.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #36)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:01 PM

43. That's not a smoking gun for "LIHOP" at all

 

That PDB was very vague on details. And Presidents are privy to a lot of top-secret intelligence data, but that doesn't mean that they have superhuman powers to figure out which intelligence reports are credible and which are not.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #43)

Thu May 21, 2015, 07:18 PM

107. Attorney General John Ashcroft warned not to fly commercial flights in July 2001.



Ashcroft Flying High

CBS News
WASHINGTON, July 26, 2001

Fishing rod in hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft left on a weekend trip to Missouri Thursday afternoon aboard a chartered government jet, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term.

"There was a threat assessment and there are guidelines. He is acting under the guidelines," an FBI spokesman said. Neither the FBI nor the Justice Department, however, would identify what the threat was, when it was detected or who made it.

A senior official at the CIA said he was unaware of specific threats against any Cabinet member, and Ashcroft himself, in a speech in California, seemed unsure of the nature of the threat.

"I don't do threat assessments myself and I rely on those whose responsibility it is in the law enforcement community, particularly the FBI. And I try to stay within the guidelines that they've suggested I should stay within for those purposes," Ashcroft said.

Asked if he knew anything about the threat or who might have made it, the attorney general replied, "Frankly, I don't. That's the answer."

CONTINUED...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ashcroft-flying-high/

Johnny Ashcan knew. And I remember.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #36)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:24 PM

72. Where's the smoking gun?

 

OOPS! There isn't one because the tinfoil nutter "LIHOP" bullshit is just that, bullshit.

LIHOP is not a credible theory whatsoever. Incompetence is why 9/11 happened, plain and simple. Bush and his administration were incompetent.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #72)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:41 PM

76. Incompetent or not, they knew...

...that Bin Laden was determined to strike the United States using planes - and any day now.

if they had taken ANY extraordinary precautions wrt stopping the attack or even warning the public, no matter how "incompetent" those actions or warnings were, then you could of course chalk it up to incompetence, as you are so incompetently doing.

But they didn't, so they definitely "let" it happen. Coupled with their desire to go to war in the Middle East - it's a good bet they didn't just "let" it happen out of incompetence, since they very competently managed the crisis to their own nefarious ends thereafter.

Are they incompetent war-fighters? Absolutely. Extremely wealthy, horribly-incompetent war-fighters. And much more wealthy after 9/11.

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #76)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:50 PM

82. And they chalked it up to impossible.

 

There was no LIHOP and promotion of such silliness is just that, silly.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #82)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:07 PM

97. Oh please, you're being ridiculous



They knew it was possible. Bush is dumb relative to Cheney. He's dumb relative to Obama, or Hillary, or Bernie - but he's not dumb relative to a guy on the internet claiming he (Bush) wasn't aware a terrorist attack of some sort or another was even possible back in 2001!

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #97)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:55 PM

103. Bulkshit

 

They never believed anything would haopen. They were idiots.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #103)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:05 PM

117. no!

 

they got exactly what they wanted! A "new Pearl Harbor event". They were/are criminal psychopaths. Not idiots.

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #117)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:11 PM

119. NO!

 

They had no fucking clue whatsoever.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #119)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:23 PM

124. WRONG!

 

n/t

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #124)

Fri May 22, 2015, 09:28 AM

176. .

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #119)

Fri May 22, 2015, 09:05 AM

175. I'm With You Moh

Not MIHOP or LIHOP. Just incredible incompetence and hubris that made them "certain" that nobody would dare do that.

There were stupid and they were overconfident and 3k people died.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #72)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:09 PM

98. What would a LIHOP smoking gun look like anyway?

Since LIHOP means inaction, no matter what you find, you could always claim Bush did nothing because he was in denial and/or stupid and/or drunk. (Not that any of that is implausible.)

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Response to Jerry442 (Reply #98)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:56 PM

104. A few of the thousands who would have had to know coming forward. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #104)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:07 PM

118. nonsense!

 

where do you come up with this BS? ::

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #118)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:12 PM

120. IT would ahve taken thousands of peole being in on the conspiracy for there to have been a conspirac

 

The only bullshit is the idiocy of claiming LIHOP or MIHOP.

It's complete insanity.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #120)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:24 PM

125. again that's your opinion!

 

but it's wrong!

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #125)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:34 PM

130. Take it to Creative Speculation where it belongs. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #130)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:36 PM

131. no!

 

eom!

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #131)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:37 PM

132. ALERT!

 

eom

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #132)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:44 PM

134. roflmao...

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #72)

Thu May 21, 2015, 07:21 PM

108. Bush was warned of OBL hijacked jet threat at Genoa G-8 summit in July 2001.

So Bush avoided the hotel and slept aboard a missile destroyer in the harbor.

Here's the story from July 2001:



Why would Osama bin Laden want to kill Dubya, his former business partner?

By James Hatfield

Editor's note: In light of last week's horrific events and the Bush administration's reaction to them, we are reprising the following from the last column Jim Hatfield wrote for Online Journal prior to his tragic death on July 18:

July 3, 2001—There may be fireworks in Genoa, Italy, this month, too.

A plot by Saudi master terrorist, Osama bin Laden, to assassinate Dubya during the July 20 economic summit of world leaders, was uncovered after dozens of suspected Islamic militants linked to bin Laden's international terror network were arrested in Frankfurt, Germany, and Milan, Italy, in April.

German intelligence services have stated that bin Laden is covertly financing neo-Nazi skinhead groups throughout Europe to launch another terrorist attack at a high-profile American target—his first since the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen last October.

According to counter-terrorism experts quoted in Germany's largest newspaper, the attack on Dubya might be a James Bond-like aerial strike in the form of remote-controlled airplanes packed with plastic explosives.

Why would Osama bi Laden want to kill, Dubya, his former business partner?

CONTINUED...

http://web.archive.org/web/20060906150015/http://www.onlinejournal.org/Special_Reports/Hatfield-R-091901/hatfield-r-091901.html



FTR: The guy died a few days after this was published. A suicide.

You must not know that smoking gun, MohRokTah. Dude.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #108)

Thu May 21, 2015, 07:37 PM

109. More tinfoil at nuttery

 

Seriously, take it to Creative Speculation

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #109)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:37 PM

112. No, that's what HAPPENED.

Seriously. Ask Mark Lombardi, if only we could.

Among other organizations, NYC artist Mark Lombardi studied the Bush Organized Crime Family and drew connections between the players, events and times, forming social network diagrams.


"George W. Bush, Harken Energy and Jackson Stephens."

He made dozens of these "Social Network Diagrams," connecting the dots between Bushes and bin Ladens and BCCI and the Mafia and CIA and so on.



Above is a detail from "George W. Bush, Harken Energy and Jackson Stephens." Note the Bin Laden -- James R. Bath -- George W. Bush linkage. It was made in 1999. Lombardi was found hanged in his loft in 2000. After 9-11, one NYC gallery reported FBI types came in and inspected his works.

Obsessive—Generous: Toward a Diagram of Mark Lombardi

http://web.archive.org/web/20020206061318/http://wburg.com/0202/arts/lombardi.html

They sure were suicided, just for knowing how the dots connected. Please visit the Obsessive-Generous link at Internet Archive's Wayback Machine and download the article. The way people disappear, electrons and the ideas they convey don't stand much of a chance. That's why it's better to know than being an ostrich.


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Response to Octafish (Reply #112)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:52 PM

113. damn, that link is toast...

"Page cannot be crawled or displayed due to robots.txt."

Any idea where i can find Lombardi downloads? His work should be Public Domain, it's too valuable to be shuttered away.

Robots?



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Response to druidity33 (Reply #113)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:31 PM

129. Sorry. Sometimes the truth attracts the wrong elements.

Thank Snowden it's easy to round them -- and us -- all up in one spot.

Try these:

Of Friendsters and Foes
The conspiracy art of Mark Lombardi: Crime-fighting tool—or 'just here to help'?
http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-12-09/news/of-friendsters-and-foes/

Mark Lombardi: Global (Conspiracy) Networks
http://www.steamshovelpress.com/altmedia18.html

Mark Lombardi (from DU2)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3331075&mesg_id=3334486

The link at bottom still works in Wayback:
https://web.archive.org/web/20040404115405/http://www.designobserver.com/archives/000072.html



For those new to the subject of how Bushes and bin Ladens have LONG known each other:

James R Bath Links Bush and BFEE to House of Bin Laden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3234845

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #72)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:02 PM

116. Thanks for your opinion.

 

You believe what ever makes you feel good. Not everyone is so gullible though.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #72)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:27 PM

187. Haha! They wre competent beyond your ken! 9/11 is why Election '00 was fixed!

 

Or don't you believe that election was stolen?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #187)

Fri May 22, 2015, 02:28 PM

195. .

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #22)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:26 PM

186. That's some powerful refutation!

 

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Response to dgibby (Reply #6)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:54 PM

40. It was likely LIHOP

 

given what we know about PNAC and its criminals-in-chief.

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Response to dgibby (Reply #6)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:57 PM

42. Who do you think "LIHOP"?

 

Do you realize how many ordinary people (forget about Cheney or Bush) working in government agencies at all levels would have to go along with a "LIHOP" plan? Do you realize how many people would have to keep "hush" about it?

There is no credible evidence for "LIHOP" on the part of the US government.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #42)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:56 PM

96. But that's not the way it works.

It's not as if Bush et al. circulated a memo to everyone that said, "We're going to crash planes into the WTC Towers, moo-ha-ha". Lots of people picked up on little bits of information, like the flight instructor who thought it was darn peculiar that his students training on flight simulators didn't seem to have much interest in learning to land. When those people tried to report that kind of stuff up the chain of command, the response was probably most often, "What are you, some kind of conspiracy nut? You go on like this, you'll trash your career."

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 12:57 PM

7. Do you have any links to the vigorous DU argument in favor of holographic projection? I missed it.

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Response to GoneFishin (Reply #7)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:18 PM

12. See post 11. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:08 PM

8. Links for that? I somehow missed those. Thanks! nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #11)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:26 PM

16. Thanks hack! nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #11)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:30 PM

17. OMG. And some of these people would consider themselves "educated" I bet.

 

I especially love it when they say a missile hit the Pentagon & not a plane. Wonder if they also think THAT was a hologram?? SO easy to crush that stupid "theory" but they just will not let it go. Its amazing how low people will sink just to push their narrative.
I normally try to be civil here, but these people are just idiots.

Thanks for the links!!

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Response to hack89 (Reply #11)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:12 PM

25. Blast from the past, there...

some of the names on those threads!

mirandapriestly
spooked911
petgoat

so many loons, so many tombstones.

Thanks for the memories.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #25)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:41 PM

28. Oy, i had hoped the 911 hologram days were over.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #25)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:51 PM

37. I wonder who those trolls were working for? Got any idea?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #37)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:08 PM

49. I don't think they were working for anyone...

I think they were simply stupendously credulous.

Sid

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #37)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:44 PM

62. Yes, they sure do look like textbook examples of black propaganda

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #62)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:47 PM

64. Yes, read about them long ago when they first began to appear as more and more people began

question the 'official' stories were getting.

Too obvious sometimes. :hi'

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #62)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:47 PM

143. Yes they definitely do.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #37)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:43 PM

78. ...

 

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #25)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:40 PM

133. This entire thread has become filled with tinfoilhat nutters

 

I think the intention was to bring Creative Speculation nuttery to GD.

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Response to NobodyHere (Reply #33)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:09 PM

86. Chicken wire disproves 9/11!

 

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #86)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:20 PM

87. Yet it was never covered by the mainstream media.

 

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Response to NobodyHere (Reply #33)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:55 PM

114. Such bad method! ARGH! My inner science teacher wants to call their parents

 

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Response to hack89 (Reply #11)

Thu May 21, 2015, 07:09 PM

106. Thanks for the first link.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:12 PM

9. I've seen the "holograph" nonsense elsewhere, but not here. Yet.

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #9)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:18 PM

13. See post 11. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:05 PM

23. Many deniers just accept every 'story' told to them by the authorities. Thank the gods

for those who are skeptical and questioning because if we become a nation of sheep, well, history shows the tragic results of nations who never question.

And we are familiar with the attempt to tie every question to some outlandish claims which are made by a few.

AND with the 'tactic' (thanks Cass Sunstein) of calling anyone who raises questions, a 'conspiracy theorist'. Kind of old now since we discovered the source of that particular tactic, but still, interesting to see who still tries it.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #23)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:42 PM

29. Holographs aside, I am pretty well convinced that Cheney knew it was coming and he

made sure not to stop it.

I also am certain (as opposed to my first point where I am not certain) that the FBI assassinated MLK.

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Response to NoJusticeNoPeace (Reply #29)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:46 PM

30. I know one thing, faith in our government is at an alltime low, and 'official stories' are just that

'stories' since most all of them are 'secret' for 'National Security' reasons of course.

I was skeptical of fairy tales even at age five.

Just couldn't grasp the notion of a wolf who could talk!

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #30)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:47 PM

31. I always remember what George said,

rule #1

I never trust anything the government tells me

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Response to NoJusticeNoPeace (Reply #31)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:53 PM

39. I like verification for any story anyone tells me. When there is none, then I'm with George

do not trust it!

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #23)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:06 PM

46. There's a difference between being a CT'er and being a skeptic/critical thinker

 

CT'ers have an explicitly political agenda that is their starting point. They work backwards from that view to fit the facts around their own biases and prejudices.

Critical thinkers are the opposite.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #46)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:47 PM

150. Yes, thanks for the lecture. I think we know what a critical thinker is. THOSE are the ones

who are a real threat to the liars and the corrupt. Unless of course you believed Dick Cheney about Iraq eg. I am proud to have been called a CT for questioning the obvious BS we were being fed in order to start that disastrous War in Iraq.

I refer you again to Cass Sunstein who was foolish enough to allow us to get a look at the tactics we often see, even on forums like this, to try to silence those critical thinkers. The words 'CT' lost all meaning due to that exposure.

Every time I see it now, I know someone is worried about something.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #150)

Fri May 22, 2015, 12:59 PM

181. +++

Thanks, Sabrina, for pushing back on the thought police. Lots of O'Reilly-style quashing and character assasination in this thread.

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Response to I hate liars (Reply #181)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:02 PM

182. No problem. Having been exposed to it back in the Bush era, I recognize it when I see it.

Been called every 'bought and paid for talking point in their corporate/mic arsenal', but being that we were right, I'm a believer in 'sticks and stones may hurt my bones, but names will never harm me'.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #46)

Fri May 22, 2015, 06:21 PM

198. I agree with what you are pointing out. However, some try to shut off legitimate skepticism

 

if it goes against their world view and are willing to let it ride if it supports their world view. I noticed that none of the CT posse wanted to shut down OP's that were promoting conspiracy theories about Snowden working for China or Russia.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #23)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:50 PM

135. Are we a nation of sheep unless we think they are lying all the time

and making convoluted conspiracies against us?

Teachers are authorities. They tell you stuff. Was it all lies? You wouldn't be such a sheep as to believe anything teacher tried to tell you, right? And Teacher was likely in on the conspiracy to make you into a drone worker bee.

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Response to treestar (Reply #135)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:53 PM

151. A nation of sheep believed the lies told by Bush/Cheney re Mushroom clouds heading our way

from a country that every intelligent person in the world knew, had been completely disarmed over the previous decade and knew also they had nothing to do with 9/11.

So yes, apparently when 70% of a nation that should have known better, believed those lies that has led to the horrific disaster in the ME, still ongoing, we ARE a nation of sheep.

I'm proud to have been one of the 30% who knew that it 'was all lies'.

The same nation looked the other way from torture and some now believe that the torturers were 'just patriots' who were frustrated.

Again, I am proud to be one of those who knows that torture is a war crime. And just as I knew in 2003 that we who knew they were lying would be vindicated, I know we will again be vindicated for seeing through all the other lies they've been telling us.

At least the country is waking up, with a majority now believing very little of what they are told. That's what happens when governments get away with lies, few believe them anymore.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #151)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:58 PM

152. Well said! Thank you. n/t

 

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #152)

Fri May 22, 2015, 12:12 AM

153. And to be clear, we were called CTs, who 'always thought the worst of America' and

who were 'blame America firsters' and 'traitors' etc etc.

I am stunned to see anyone here who has a problem with people questioning their government. Airc, DU WAS the forum to go to in order to be ABLE to question at a time when it was very difficult to do.

What happened here?

Thank you for your comment

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #151)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:06 PM

183. Agree with your point, but I think the ~70% number is bogus..

If it comes from the poll of US military cited by David Brooks in a recent column. I can't put my finger on a source right now, but I believe the percentage of Americans who disbelieved the Bush administration line in the run-up to the Iraq war was significantly higher (than 30%).

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #151)

Sun May 24, 2015, 06:59 PM

202. Well stated Sabrina 1

I have been away from the computer for a few days... a bit surprised with the activity of this post.

I am happy to see most of the comments have been civil and for the most part intelligently put.

I too understood we were being mislead... I didn't know how... but I knew what we were about to do was not good for anyone involved and I was very vocal about it.

I was called a traitor, collaborator with the enemy and a coward. Some from my own family.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts... it's good to know there were many others who felt the same as I did.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:55 PM

41. +1

 

Thanks for pointing this out.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:40 PM

75. Deniers are just as sad as hardcore theorists. Both see things in black and white.

 

I swear deniers and hardcore theorists are flip sides of the same coin, both dangerous to average people that actually have critical thinking skills.

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Response to Rex (Reply #75)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:44 PM

79. No. It's based on EVIDENCE.

There is no evidence for UFO's, for the Loch Ness monster, for bigfoot, or for the "government did it" variety of 9/11 theories.

Newsflash: 9/11 was an actual fucking conspiracy.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #79)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:45 PM

80. Deniers are sad little people, just like hardcore CTers.

 

Sorry if that bothers you...

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Response to Rex (Reply #75)

Fri May 22, 2015, 08:10 AM

169. Name the ONE CS that you think is real that most people deny! I will give it a serious look. nt

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #169)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:21 PM

184. How about the CS to invade Iraq?

Right-wing pols and corporate media are still recycling the inane, "anyone would have made the same choice given what we knew" BS. And that's because most Americans, even today, deny that it was the clear, out-in-the-open conspiracy it was.

Why? Because in 2002, they were fed lies about why we went into Iraq, then fed more lies during the war itself, and now the same lies are being recycled to prevent the light bulb from turning on.

Why is it so hard to believe that similar conspiracies and coordinated cover-ups were at play with the 9/11 attacks, for example? Especially considering the foot-dragging that preceeded the "investigation" and the keyhole the "investigators" were allowed to look through during the investigation?

I think you'd agree, logic produces valid conclusions only when it operates with complete and correct premises and data.

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Response to I hate liars (Reply #184)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:47 PM

193. Waste of time, that poster really could care less about honest discussion.

 

Goodluck, deniers are very defensive people as you can see...I never said any names or mentioned DU, yet some just show up all mad for some reason.

You can guess as to why, since you know, my post isn't about THEM...they are just defensive for a friend or something...

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Response to Rex (Reply #193)

Fri May 22, 2015, 06:39 PM

199. I think you mean "couldn't care less". nt

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #169)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:48 PM

194. #80

 

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Response to Rex (Reply #194)

Fri May 22, 2015, 06:42 PM

200. LOL, No CTer ever names one. Because they are all 100% bullshit. nt

 

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:57 PM

115. "defended with great vigor on DU"

 

by who?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:15 AM

158. That theory is not allowed to be discussed on DU.

I have not gotten an answer from the admins as to why certain theories are allowed and other theories are not allowed.

I see words like "Kooks" "crackpots""paranoid fantasies with little or no basis in fact".

FROM THE TERMS OF SERVICE:
Don't go overboard with the crazy talk.
Democratic Underground is not intended to be a platform for kooks and crackpots peddling paranoid fantasies with little or no basis in fact. To accommodate our more imaginative members we tolerate some limited discussion of so-called "conspiracy theories" under the following circumstances: First, those discussions are not permitted in our heavily-trafficked Main forums; and second, those discussions cannot stray too far into Crazyland (eg: chemtrails, black helicopters, 9/11 death rays or holograms, the "New World Order," the Bilderbergers, the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, alien abduction, Bigfoot, and the like). In addition, please be aware that many conspiracy theories have roots in racism and anti-semitism, and Democratic Underground has zero tolerance for bigoted hate speech. In short, you take your chances.

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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #158)

Fri May 22, 2015, 08:20 AM

170. The rules changed when we moved to DU3

there were no such limits on DU2 - I suspect Skinner used the switch to tone down the nuttery on DU.

I was just using it as an example of a CT - I am not a Truther.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:37 PM

19. Thank you. The whole article is worth a read.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:52 PM

20. I really wish there were a social services for individual words.

 

"Theory" has suffered an immense amount of abuse and needs to be returned to its rightful owners in the scientific community.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #20)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:31 PM

27. I chuckle

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #20)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:49 PM

34. And the words 'conspiracy theorists' returned to the files of Cass Sunstein while he continues

to work on ways to silence those who dare to ask questions.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #34)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:07 PM

47. You're not asking questions though

 

You're demanding a certain set of answers. That's not asking questions in good faith.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #47)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:17 PM

55. Excuse me? I am responding to 'theory' that anyone who asks questions is labeled

as suggested by Cass Sunstein (would you like me to post his 'advice' on how to discredit people on the internet?) as a CT.

I have plenty of questions and have asked them starting with the Bush/Cheney lies we were told back in 2001 when we who did question their lies, were called 'CT' and 'traitors' among other things. See, I didn't believe that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 OR that it was a threat to the US due to its WMDs, because we knew that Iraq had been disarmed over the past ten years.

That didn't stop the attempts to label those of us who knew Bush/Cheney were lying. Now we have been proven to have been correct. I'm still waiting for an apology, though I don't expect it. Those attackers have now gone silent though, so there is that.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #34)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:21 PM

58. Tinfoil hatter works just fine for me.

 

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #58)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:50 PM

66. Works for me too. Fortunately the people are not so easily conned. Must make the story tellers work

very difficult. With all the propaganda and the money spent, fewer and fewer people believe a word they are told by their government.

Why is that do you think?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #66)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:20 PM

70. Because eleventy quadrillion of them are watching RT, obviously.

 

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:47 PM

32. Jade Helm 15

... lots of troops and supplies in Texas and all that ...

Gov. Greg Abbott on Monday (May 4) defended his decision to have the Texas State Guard monitor a military training exercise that has riled conspiracy theorists, denying he has lent credence to their suspicions. ... Abbott sent a letter to the State Guard asking it to keep an eye on the operation so that "Texans know their safety, constitutional rights, private property rights and civil liberties will not be infringed."

Conspiracy theorists have speculated that the exercise — which spans several states and is scheduled to start this summer — is a covert effort to institute martial law. But Abbott said he has "seen nothing that would cause anybody to worry about what is going on."

Abbott has nonetheless taken some heat for getting the State Guard involved. Democrats have questioned whether he trusts the military, while some Republicans — including former Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst — have spoken out in support of the exercise. One of them, former state Rep. Todd Smith, has accused Abbott of "pandering to idiots."

https://www.texastribune.org/2015/05/04/abbott-defends-jade-helm-15-decision/

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Response to progree (Reply #32)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:53 PM

38. Jade Helm 15 is only necessary because Jade Helms 1 through 14 failed to conquer Texas.

General Turgidson was quoted as saying, "Gee, I wish we had more tunnels under those Wal-Marts! I'll bet the Rooskies have secret tunnels under every Wal-Mart-ski they have."

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Response to tclambert (Reply #38)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:19 PM

56. And just in time too .. to impose Obama's black power and his Muslim Sharia law :-)

Author Peter Brimelow: Texas Must Secede To Protect 'White Rights'

Source: Right Wing Watch

Speaking at the American Renaissance conference in Tennessee, conservative author and onetime CPAC speaker Peter Brimelow argued that instead of promoting unity, Martin Luther King, Jr. Day “has just turned into anti-white indoctrination.” Unless “cultural Marxists” who are behind “political correctness” resisted, Brimelow contends, the USA will collapse.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/peter-brimelow-states-texas-must-consider-secession-protect-white-rights


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141099771

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Response to tclambert (Reply #38)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:28 PM

139. I've ben in a lot of tunnels and underground facilities there. It's real, I tell you! Real! Arrghhh!



That's the Alex Jones version, but he's now supporting Rand Paul for president and also said he'd *really* like to see Ted Cruz as POTUS. Another gold mine, right here:



Here Come the Black Helicopters!: Exposing the Liberal Plan for Global Government

by Dick Morris, Eileen McGann

Warning: Our national sovereignty and our freedom are in grave danger.

Stealthily advancing, the globalists and socialists at the United Nations, and in the United States itself, are trying to dilute our national sovereignty, undermine our democratic values, and mandate massive transfers of our wealth and technology to third world countries...

That should make us all buy some adult diapers. That and much more:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15818850-here-come-the-black-helicopters

Honestly, who knew Morris has so much to say? Seriously, though, Iran Contra wasn't CT. Kerry held public hearings on it and it was placed in the Congressional Record. But we can't give him any credit, so let's go with the other guy. Dead people always tell the truth, and in fact he may have really done so. One will need a psychic to see if he changed his mind since his death. RIP.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #139)

Fri May 22, 2015, 11:59 AM

178. "The liberal plan for global government." Does that mean the TPP?

The Trans-Pacific Plutocrat Pact gets lots of support from business interests, not so much from liberals.

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Response to tclambert (Reply #178)

Fri May 22, 2015, 12:18 PM

179. Oh, just go to the link and see the Bircher screed, brought to you by the Koch bros.

And it's been playing out across Texas for years. I grew up there. But before they hid behind Jones and other mouth pieces. They used to be out in the open. Wow, did we have some conversations.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:49 PM

35. CIA Report on Contras and Cocaine Volume 2 (Namebase archives)

 

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:08 PM

50. This is explicitly against GD's rules

 

But thanks for posting anyway.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #50)

Sun May 24, 2015, 07:10 PM

203. I respectfully disagree

I read the rules and these ten "former" conspiracies are not conspiracies anymore. They were proven to be true. Thus these are worthy of posting as facts.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:14 PM

52. In North Korea all goodness is the fruit of their beloved leader and...

...all that is bad can be blamed on the enemies of their beloved leader.

I think too many people are comfortable living in a world like that.

Politics in the U.S.A. is messy, so many U.S. Americans turn to religion, creating their own images of God and the Devil, or accepting the images of others. This failure of courage is more common in the "right wing" but the "left wing" has it's own authoritarian cults too.

I was a lucky kid. My mamma raised me as a scientist, heretic, and a skeptic.

Forget "question authority," that's lame.

It is our duty as rational human beings to actively challenge any self-declared authority "to the pain."





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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:20 PM

57. kick for later n/t

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:23 PM

59. The Truth, that shall set us free, is out there - but

Since the Powers that Be immediately label this or that truth a "Conspiracy theory," and the Corporate, CIA-run media only pushes the lies that the Powers that be tell them to push, then the truth around any event gets ignored, and those that do pay attention are ridiculed.

Personally, the 19th Century Physician Semmeilweiss remains a big hero - as his life story demonstrates how seriously difficult it is to get "An Inconvenient Truth" put away as the lie it is.

He saw from personal experience that when a physician used simple hygiene procedures such as washing his hands, gloves and instruments before helping a woman deliver a child, then the number of deaths due to child bed fever went down 95%.

Ridiculed and black listed, unable to witness any sort of movement to change the behavior of those who delivered babies, he died in an insane asylum.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #59)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:42 PM

61. Convenient you leave out how there would have been no way for Semmelweis to explain how

 

until Pasteur's germ theory of disease some two decades after Semmelweis had died.

Yes, the way the medical community treated him was tragic, and his evidence should have been better explored, but he couldn't sufficiently demonstrate it either. In fact, he was quite wrong on a few points, namely that physicians would have to wash their hands before every exam, not just after being in the morgue.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #61)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:53 PM

67. Your statement that he had no way to demonstrate it is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Had the medical establishment not been so hyper-macho, to the point that in the smoking lounges and cafeterias of hospital and surgery wing clinics, the physicians had contests to show whose white coats were so infected with dried pus and dried blood that the coats could stand up on their own. (Picture it - a table at a cafeteria, and there the doctors are taking off their lab coats and then timing with their watches whose coat stands the longest!)

Had he been able to persuade a few other doctors to do as he did, and to note their observations in their journals, then he could have made his case.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #67)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:16 PM

69. He had no way to demonstrate how the infections occurred.

 

What he did demonstrate is that washing hands after dealing with bodies in the morgue reduced infections during exams. In fact, he was wrong that cadaverous material caused childbed fever.

He could have shown that washing hands reduced infection, but he had no way to explain it until Pasteur came along.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #69)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:47 PM

94. There were two prior historical medical events that

galvanized the public to take various steps to remedy a major health problem, and both occurred long before Pasteur. So I don't see that in the 17 and 18 hundreds, that you would need to have a spelled out theory in order to get the public to make needed changes.

You have Ed Jennings, way back in the late 1700's, and he realized there was some principle involved in the fact that cow maids who suffered from a case of cow pox never developed a more deadly disease, smallpox, and from that observation he went on to create a vaccine for small pox.

It would have been nice if Jennings could have had a discussion with the public about the viral material and the microbes floating about inside sick people's bodies and bloodstreams, that caused smallpox and cow pox, but like you say, that theory didn't develop until Pasteur's studies in France between 1965 and 1887. Yet the public did embrace his idea of vaccines none the less.

Then, in 1854, a physician named John Snow discovered that he could trace all the cases of cholera that was then ravaging the city of London's populace back to a single pump handle and that when he removed the handle, the illness ceased.

Again, this proceeded the niceties of the discussion and theory of disease brought about by Pasteur, yet his idea was embraced even though the theory behind his notion of pump handle removal was not as sophisticated as you'd suspect.

I don't think that Semmelweiss needed a theory so much as he needed a forum. Had he been a teaching physician, he could have persuaded all his students to follow his lead, but instead he attempted to go head to head against some of the more prominent physicians in England, who were not willing to let an outsider shape the protocols of medicine without their approval.

Martin Luther King Jr met the same ego-based resistance inside the African American community, especially those of his colleagues inside the ministry when he wanted the civil Rights movement to take shape. Luckily for everyone, he decided that high school students and college students did not yet have a stake in their egos being inside or outside of the movement, so he took the movement ideals to them, and the rest is history.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #59)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:43 PM

100. heck, on DU I've seen Semmelweis's case as proof that The System Always Works--

he had data!

even worse, he was actually lured to the institution, then beaten so badly it killed him (he'd also genuinely snapped, but again he was against his "fellows" from the inside)

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:37 PM

74. thank you for the link

 

and this article of truth.....

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:42 PM

77. I don't know what is worse, deniers or theorists that won't listen to obvious evidence.

 

Wouldn't trust either one with a wooden nickel.

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Response to Rex (Reply #77)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:49 PM

81. Depends on what you mean by denier.

For instance, there is not one shred of credible evidence pointing to anything other than the official explanation for 9/11. Does that make me a denier? Because I don't believe in the bullshit various "theorists" have espoused?

There is also no evidence for bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster. So we're deniers, there as well?

People here really need to stop believing every nutjob "theory" just because that theory implicates a President they despise.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #81)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:53 PM

83. Obviously someone as binary as a CTer that believes every CT ever made.

 

Except the person won't listen to any evidence and when a CT is proven, they still scoff and pretend there is no evidence. Get it now?

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Response to Rex (Reply #83)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:32 PM

89. The Binary CT process: show a particular CT to be wrong validates the official cover story

Unfortunately, there are some who proceed on that very assumption and rely upon it in argument.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #89)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:41 PM

91. Yeah that is one of the most popular ways to denounce a CT, seen it here over the years.

 

Also, to bring up a person's character and then dismiss the CT based on that person and not the information at hand. I think that is why I only get along with people that are skeptical, but not to the point of blindness to facts.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:06 PM

85. And 911 was not an inside job and the resulting multi billion dollar surveillance of everyone

 

The militarization of the police, the fact that environmentalists and other dissenters are now terrorists, the fact that all repressive laws are now a national security "secret" including TPP, the brutal crackdown on OWS, etc. is just a coincidence.

Am I the only frog in the pot who thinks the water is getting REALLY hot?

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #85)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:23 PM

88. nope

 

there are a lot of us, with only a few able to smell the boiling frogs. Right on....

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #85)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:42 PM

92. Would somebody please turn off the stove?

Seems to me that if the government really wanted to knock down the CT's, they could simply release the security camera videos from the businesses surrounding the Pentagon. That would at least explain what hit the Pentagon (I'm not advocating either a missle or plane). Seems like a no brainer to me. It also seems odd that the Pentagon itself didn't have and/or release) it's own video of it, either. Hard to believe they didn't have security cameras located all around the building. I'd think they'd have cameras that could see a pin drop.

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Response to dgibby (Reply #92)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:32 PM

99. Because reality works like in the movies.

 

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Response to dgibby (Reply #92)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:05 PM

144. You are correct. They have an infinite budget and cameras are cheap. I am sure they have

at least 2 camera angles of every square foot of the Pentagon perimeter.

Look at a Walmart parking lot. There are nests of video cameras mounted everywhere. I will never believe that Walmart protects their parking lots better than the Pentagon protects their facilities. It's absurd on it's face.

But I am supposed to believe that the only image of the plane hitting the Pentagon just happened, coincidentally, to be obscured by a parking mechanism. You would have to be extremely gullible to believe that.

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #85)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:54 PM

95. I'm right in the pot with you and the water is really HOT!

I think so called conspiracy theories cause many to feel very uncomfortable. Some CTs are trash but, as the article points out, many are not.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:40 PM

90. I wonder if the people in this thread who are supisious of LIHOP are people that might

 

...be protecting the fact that the truth might come out.

Ik

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #90)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:44 PM

101. The Truth movement can't even agree what the truth is

you would think that after all these years there would be some consensus on what happened and the outlines of the actual conspiracy could be articulated.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #101)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:22 PM

123. we don't know...

 

what the truth is but we know they lied! An investigation might have exposed the truth but probably not after all this time.

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #123)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:27 PM

126. If you can't articulate an alternate

Then no, you don't know they lied.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #126)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:30 PM

128. yes I do!

 

not my problem you can't comprehend that.
Did you believe Bush and Condi when they said no one could have imagined they'd fly planes into buildings?
Bet you thought there'd be WMD's in Iraq also. Do you believe they found any?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #126)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:07 PM

145. That's bullshit.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #101)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:10 PM

146. The IK at the bottom of the post = I'm Kidding.

 

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #146)

Fri May 22, 2015, 04:50 AM

162. Is that sort of like the notes that Felix left Oscar.

I can't take it anymore, Felix, I'm cracking up.
Everything you do irritates me.
And when you're not here, the things I know you're gonna do when you come in irritate me.
You leave me little notes on my pillow.
Told you 158 times I can't stand little notes on my pillow.
"We're all out of cornflakes. F.U."
Took me three hours to figure out F.U. was Felix Ungar!



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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #162)

Fri May 22, 2015, 07:52 AM

165. I watched the show like it was church. The chemistry was awesome and wonderful!

 

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #90)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:13 PM

121. LIHOP is the biggest pile of bullshit since the moon landing deniers. eom

 

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #90)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:51 PM

136. that's the great thing about conspiracy theories

Any doubt shed on them, and the doubter can be case as part of the conspiracy.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:48 PM

102. Credible

 

What makes this believable is its relationship to other parts of the Iran-Contra operation. Who would believe a Marine Lt. Colonel could, all by himself, steal $40 million of weapons from his own military and sell them to Iran? Who would believe he could set up a shadow government accountable to nobody, with its own secret funding sources? Who would believe Congress would tolerate the worst constitutional breach in our history and completely fail to hold anyone accountable?

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:59 PM

105. K&R

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:05 PM

110. Give the CT tree a shake and all the wackadoos fall out. n/t

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #110)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:39 PM

192. Ain't that the truth. nt

 

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 08:15 PM

111. 9 and 10 are highly questionable

the others are common knowledge (although I'll admit I didn't know about the Snow White Operation)

FFS, if someone is going to make a list like this, at least make a *good* one...

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:16 PM

122. Well this thread has turned into a "Creative Speculation" thread in GD.

 

I have to wonder if that was what the OP planned.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #122)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:42 PM

142. Could anything else have happened? Over a hundred Recs, too. I have to mention one conspiracy that

can scarcely be denied:

The Founding Fathers met both publicly and privately to further their plot against England for Independence. That's a real one.


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Response to freshwest (Reply #142)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:17 PM

148. Makes me sick.

 

Time to give up on this site because of the over the top CT bullshit.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #148)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:43 PM

149. Oh, it's been taken over. And it's not going anywhere. The problem here is the Juries.

At other sites you can tell them what you think of the non-stop stuff being spewed. Here, you will get your post hidden until you are suspended or banned. I still serve on Juries, but it's amazing what is said and done.

Still, DU has a better Ignore function than most. A quick look at a poster will decide if they're here for that. Then Ignore 'em. You customize your experience here if you want. Then you are in a position to have real conversatonos without all the noise and diversion. It's still a great site.

DU draws all kinds, because the site is very user friendly - one of the best I've seen so far. So the Paul, CTers, whatevers come here to play because NONE of their websites are a tenty as good feature wise.

Hope you stay. I take a certain amount of time off to reconnect when the negativity is too dumb.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #149)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:19 AM

159. I like that 2nd sig pic you've got, the guy with the sunglasses, and I'm all out of bubblegum.

 



/just sayin...

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #159)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:53 AM

160. LOVE that flick! Yes, I'm all outta bubblegun, too. ROFLMAO! n/t

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #148)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:15 AM

157. Pretzel Warrior aka functioning_cog is leaving DU again, but this time by choice? Huzzah!

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #157)

Fri May 22, 2015, 06:41 AM

164. Unfounded accusations.

 

Lame.

Very lame.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #157)

Fri May 22, 2015, 07:54 AM

166. .







.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #142)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:33 PM

190. I don't buy it. Where's the smoking musket?

 

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 09:27 PM

127. Thanks and k & r! n/t

 

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 10:02 PM

137. I'm convinced TWA Flight 800 will be there one day

 

MH370 reaks of conspiracies as well.

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Response to Reter (Reply #137)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:25 PM

185. No, but the truth IS out there. Hundreds of eyewitnesses ignored. Illegal take-over by the FBI.

 

Etc.

Not to mention a one-off "mid-fuel tank explosion."

And no naval vessels in the vicinity.....until the Navy was found not to be on speaking terms with reality.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 11:12 PM

147. Kick.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:13 AM

156. Forgot Hostages for Votes in 1980.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #156)

Fri May 22, 2015, 08:08 AM

168. treason and election thefts get a pass

 

new world orders

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Fri May 22, 2015, 05:38 AM

163. As far as conspiracies are concerned, I'm a Suspicionist ...

 

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Fri May 22, 2015, 08:05 AM

167. k

 

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Fri May 22, 2015, 08:47 AM

173. and there are many officially admitted false-flag attacks throughout history

 

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Fri May 22, 2015, 11:20 AM

177. Even a stopped clock is right once in awhile but it does not mean you

should rely on it to tell you the right time to often.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #177)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:30 PM

188. So you're a Coincidence Theorist, eh?

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #188)

Fri May 22, 2015, 02:31 PM

196. Well, if it will make you feel better for me to say yes then sure whatever makes

you happy.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Fri May 22, 2015, 01:32 PM

189. Some people are expecting courtroom proof, or else to them no proof at all exists. That's their big

 

"argument," along with the brilliant and terse "No."

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #189)

Fri May 22, 2015, 03:49 PM

197. I would settle for just actual evidence, no speculation or crackpot theories like the

one that there is a cure for cancer and that the pharmaceutical companies are withholding it but just simply evidence since courtroom proof would require a court to hear a case and judge the evidence which if its something the government wants to cover-up about can be impossible to get.

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Response to MysticHuman (Original post)

Fri May 22, 2015, 11:04 PM

201. 181 recs so far.

 

That says a lot.

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