Sure, a 14yo sexual offender has "rights..."

[MrScorpio]

As does that offender's victims. Rights inherently have responsibilities attached to them. Such as the responsility of the offender's parents to not allow the abuse to go unchecked and then to cover it up afterwards. The kid may not be legally "responsible" as a juvenile, but that doesn't mean that neither he nor the parents who have custody over him shouldn't be held accountable.

Justice demands that they should.

Then there's the thoroughly distasteful way that those same parents would lean on their own homophobia, by accusing LGBTQ people, with no credible evidence whatsoever, of doing to kids what their own little lothario actually did.

You can just smell the hypocrisy.

I'm quite sure that the once juvenile offender grew up without any real intervention at all. Which is a disaster for some child's life waiting to happen.

We're not talking about the childish curiosity of a "show me yours and I'll show you mine" situation, we're talking about a goddamned 14 year old who abused helpless victims. A 14 year old who grew up to be an adult, one who only seems to feel any remorse right after he got caught.

Sorry, I'm not feeing any sympathy for the homophobic, right wing, pious pedo and his wholly incompetent and hypocritical parents with a pregnancy fetish.

I'm saving all my sympathy for their victims.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. You have said it so much more clearly than I ever could, my dear MrScorpio...

I weep for their victims.

K&R

[turbinetree]

34. Then we have the millions............

And finally what kind of vetting process does TLC have in there business model plan

[libdem4life]

2. It's hard to know about the victims...they are, in essence, being emotionally abused again by having

the entire world know about their private...very private...lives.

It will be interesting to see what the state of AR does...it can't do nothing, even though the records are destroyed, except for the millions of internet versions...sorry, guys. What this may be is a symbolic act to say that it is legally over and done with. That's what angers me.

I think the best hope is that the school aged children will be forced to go to public school. Yet, that will be a super traumatic event in many ways. And don't forget, that those who weren't molested either knew or felt it...survivor's guilt can go on there, too. Like the older daughter and the younger ones, etc.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

9. It will be interesting to see what the state of AR does...it can't do nothing

That's exactly what the state of AR will do - nothing. They can't do anything, including forcing the children into public school.

[libdem4life]

13. Are you sure they don't have a mandatory education law? I don't live there, so don't know.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

15. If they had such a law

the kids would already have to be in a regular school (public or private). My point is, they can't force the kids into public school based on something that happened 12 years ago.

[libdem4life]

17. There are home school laws ... again, don't know Arkansas ... but I'd be surprised if this doesn't

come up now that they know they are being "schooled" in an unsafe and perhaps educationally deficient environment. California had Home School Teachers to check in and test and other things to keep it legal.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

38. Of course there are homeschool laws

But if there were a law against it in AR, they would have already forced the kids into a regular school.

And you really have no idea whether they are in an unsafe or educationally deficient environment.

[libdem4life]

39. The way I read it, and I did look it up, it's similar to California. The kids have to take

standardized tests to verify they are being schooled and learning. Otherwise they are to be in public schools through age 17 at the beginning of 12th Grade. I'm not surprised, a lot of people get away with it...schools are understaffed. The this will likely/hopefully trigger a visit by a Truant Officer. They couldn't even take care of them, how did they "school" them at all those levels. That's almost as crazy as the rest of this story.

I never watched the show, however, maybe their schooling was caught on tape?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

41. Their kids

If they want to homeschool them, it's none of my business...or yours. Yes, AR homeschool law does require annual standardized testing, but I think this year is that last year that it's required.

Not sure why you would think this should trigger a visit from a truancy officer - assuming they've filled out all of the required paperwork, the kids aren't truant.

[LeftyMom]

54. That's not the situation in California AT ALL.

California doesn't have an explicit homeschooling law. We have several public or private options that can be used for homeschooling. None of them legally require home visits or standardized testing, but home-based public school or charter programs *may* require those things as part of their programs.

The most popular homeschooling option in California is to register as a private school, and there's no inspection or testing requirement for any K-12 private schools, except for a fire safety inspection for schools with more than 6 students.

[libdem4life]

56. Thanks. It was 20 years ago. In fact we got the first California Charter School initiated

by parents and is still in operation...the Santa Rosa Education Cooperative. Thanks for the update.

[blue neen]

50. If children are being molested, that would definitely qualify as an unsafe environment.

The parents/teachers have already proved that they are unable to protect the victims.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

60. Children are currently being molested? n/t

[noiretextatique]

63. no...they were already molested years ago

And their parents covered it up to protect the offender. As long as those parents are parenting, I am concerned about another cover-up. Of course, they can just continue to blame teh gay.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

64. My response was to a post saying

that children are being molested.

The person most responsible for covering it up is the cop to whom they first reported it. Had he done his job and reported it, Josh Duggar could have been charged before the SOL expired.

Few parents, regardless of religious or political beliefs, are going to beg the police to arrest their child.

[maindawg]

40. I would think

That social services should have been involved and may now find it necessary. They could remove the children from the home if they feel they are in danger. Since the Duggars a re a cult, these children are in danger.
The parents are guilty of a cover up. I think crimes were committed. I think free labor is against the law. The IRS will want to see that construction guys books. I think the Sheriff are responsible to enforce the laws here. Now though it may be the FBI who would investigate. Seizure of all computers, a search of all property to determine the extent of the crimes.
Oh yes. This could get very nasty.



Also , let me ask why every time I have to go to some family event a sex scandal erupts and I will have to tolerate the rants of the religiously republican righteous grrrr. Im going to wear my ear buds and listen to Buckethead songs while I nod out and act like I'm on drugs.




I will be on drugs

[vankuria]

42. The Duggar's are very politically connected

I doubt anything will come of this but I hope I'm wrong.

[maindawg]

44. All it takes is one politically or socially motivated DA

Or an official complaint filled with the FBI. Or a civil suit.......
One of the main concerns they have is the exposure of the victims identity. Once that happens, all bets are off.

[libdem4life]

43. Right...his non-profit church...completely forgot. The Sheriff has already destroyed records.

I' m thinking like many scams, the IRS is the first to the scene. Then it expands from there.

[uppityperson]

3. k&r

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Got that right.

By the time a kid is 14 he should know damn well that it is very, very wrong to inflict any kind of sexual touching on his younger sisters (or anybody else, for that matter). This wasn't a curious little kindergartener playing "doctor" because he just found out girls are different and wants to see how. This was a kid who'd reached puberty, knew what sex is (although god knows what kind of warped sex ed he might have got from his nutball parents), felt those urges and helped himself to his sisters' bodies.

It wouldn't surprise me at all, though, to find out that there were all kinds of sexual weirdnesses and dysfunctions in that family, since the whole ethos of that extreme fundamentalist, cultlike "Quiverful" bunch would almost certainly lead to big-time fuckedupness in that area. One essential principle of that "religion" (or whatever you want to call it) is that women and girls have little value except as household servants and brood mares. It's likely little Josh learned early in his childhood that his sisters were the property of the men in the family and he was therefore free to do whatever he wanted with and to them.

Josh deserved to be prosecuted (and receive a whole lot of counseling by professionals, not religious wackos), even if only as a minor. But his parents are just as much at fault for creating the monster and covering up what he did. I don't suppose anybody did a damn thing to help the sisters, who probably figured it was all their fault.

[historylovr]

19. + 1

I'm reading some really weird stuff about them on a homeschooling board I used to frequent back in the day. It was about 60/40 religious v. secular then, so even then support for the Duggars and the Quiverful movement was not universal, and I wanted to see the response to this. Though there's one or two saying they handled this appropriately, most of the comments I've seen show disgust with the family and the movement as a whole.

This is, again, anecdotal, second-hand, from someone more familiar with these people and the show, so take it with a grain of salt. Apparently Michelle's cycle is posted on the refrigerator so the girls can remind her of the best times to conceive. And the babies are moved out of the parents' room as soon as possible so they can conceive again.

And there's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=49&v=JVjRiQw9KLw

I don't know how to embed it, sorry.

[spinbaby]

20. Oh, that's gross

Those kids are all going to need therapy.

[historylovr]

49. Very gross.

Let's hope they have trust funds, because they're going to need a lot of it.

[blue neen]

52. Disgusting.

He's acting like that in front of his daughter. It seems that there are no boundaries here, and that is a dangerous thing.

[tblue37]

53. EEEWWWW! You don't dry hump in front of your kids! Just EEEWWWW! nt

[3catwoman3]

55. I am not a psychiatrist, but that is some...

...totally twisted, perverted, and SICKO shit going on there! Repulsive does not even come close.

[Pooka Fey]

61. Good find, but I'm too scared to click on that link

After reading the comments, I get the idea.

[LibDemAlways]

37. The guy they follow, Gothard, is all about blame the victim.

The girls are taught to cover up because a kneecap or shoulder could set a guy's libido on fire. The mother freaked out when her 4 year old ran out of the house and was caught on camera in a sleeveless dress. Completely over the top.

And, amidst all this emphasis on modesty and "saving" anything more than hand-holding for marriage, the parents let the kids know that they go at it like rabbits. In one episode the father dry humped the mother in front of one daughter and her boyfriend and then taunted them with "you can't do this." There's a chart of the mother's menstrual cycle prominently displayed in the home, which is one of the creepiest things I've ever heard of.

I hope everyone gets counseling to get through this and that the girls can somehow break free and start to live some semblance of a normal existence, because theirs so far has been pretty fucked up.

[freshwest]

5. Agree 100%. n/t

[In_The_Wind]

6. K&R!

[reddread]

7. so does a 41 year old rapist of a 12 year old

funny isnt it?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-stands-by-her-defense-of-1975-rape-suspect/

[uppityperson]

10. wtf does that have to do with this?

trying to score cheap political points rather than expressing sympathy to these girls who were sexually abused?

[reddread]

16. actually, it is ALL about the victim

maybe consistency isnt the soup du jour?
sorry if you are offended, as i am by people overlooking the well being of children,
regardless of sex, or country of residence.
Clearly, jumping on Dugger is crucial to our common future and the concept of justice.

[uppityperson]

21. Anyone charged with a crime deserves a defense. Duggar wasn't charged with a crime

like he should have been.

Is your point the Hillary Clinton was assigned to defend a rapist, even though she tried to get off the case? Or are you saying HE is the victim here? Please clarify as I don't want to argue over something you didn't mean. Thank you.

[reddread]

22. and he wont be

that 12 year old wasnt the perpetrator and anyone working to get a 41 year old rapist off as a "favor"
deserves considerable more scrutiny than some 14 year old hillbilly.

[uppityperson]

23. So that post was for cheap political points, nothing to do with the victims. Thanks for clarifying.

[reddread]

24. hypocrisy is doing nobody, let alone our country any good at all

is this the Dugger Family Underground?
wheres my compass?

[uppityperson]

25. Hide thread word of the week = Duggar.

Or click here to hide this thread....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026717636#

[MrScorpio]

11. Please, save your HDS for elsewhere.

Is it that hard to stay on subject?

[Warren DeMontague]

26. Lame as fuck.

And extremely ill-timed, too. In poor taste.

I don't see anywhere in this OP where it's being argued that people accused of a crime aren't entitled to legal defense representation. Just a cheap shot all around.

[murielm99]

28. Your post has no place in this thread.

Please self-delete, for the good of this board.

[uppityperson]

31. He posted it in GD as its own thread yet won't delete here. GD thread hid 7-0

It is telling.

Edited to add I did not alert on the now hidden GD thread, and did not serve on the jury (I'd already replied so could not be on the jury).

[murielm99]

45. Look at this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=inbox&view=1871472

I don't know if I am getting in trouble by doing this. I guess I will find out soon.

[uppityperson]

46. It goes to your mailbox, viewable only by you.

[murielm99]

47. Okay.

So now everyone knows I alerted. I stand by what I said in the alert.

[uppityperson]

48. no one but you can see it, except for those on the jury in the pm in their own mailboxes

[stonecutter357]

32. rwnj

Are just pos?

[noiretextatique]

65. for one thing: he was arrested, not "counseled"

But you already know that.

[liberal_at_heart]

8. That's one of the things that pisses me off the most. Here they are fighting laws that would allow

transgender people to use the bathroom because they are afraid they would molest children, and their own child, their own non transgender Christian child, molested his own sisters. These people are clueless. They don't know shit about who will molest and who won't.

[MrScorpio]

18. I see that you're giving the former junior sister diddler the benefit of doubt as an adult...

I have no way of knowing what kind of intervention he's had coming out of puberty and into adulthood, other than being "prayed over" by his sick, showboat parents.

I'm definitely sure that it's not a good idea to trust him to be alone around any helpless kids, unless he had years of therapy.

I can't be that trusting.

[hunter]

14. Very clearly stated.

That's exactly it.

The Duggers pegged my own creep-o-meter well past full scale the first time I saw them on television as a visitor in someone else's home.

I don't know what TLC is about anymore, but it's not good. I used to occasionally watch "Junkyard Wars," another semi-staged reality show, but the Duggers are different. Pure freak show. That's just another reason I don't watch television. Our home television is a movie player, a little cinema in our house that actually has fewer commercials than the actual cinema these days.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. Yeah, and I guess because they have special religious™ feels we can't call out their hypocrisy.

I mean, there's apparently no relationship between their homophobic, religious right "culture in crisis" "filth in media" soapbox moralizing, and their flat-out sexual and moral hypocrisy.

[City Lights]

29. I'm with you, Mr. Scorpio!

Well said!

[Fumesucker]

30. I find myself thanking the God I do not believe in that I wasn't raised in that household

What a screwed up snake pit to be fourteen years old in or thirteen years old or twelve years old or seven years old or a new born for that matter.

Your parents using you to make money by programming you with hate, loathing and fear and telling you that is ultimate love. Having you read and study the Gospel that so harshly condemns hypocrisy and then making you into an ultimate hypocrite who sells his celebrity status for money. Being surrounded by sycophants, liars, confidence men and clever fools.

We are told by our culture that our parents love us and try to do right by us, that is the romantic ideal, the Duggars failed that ideal by an extremely long shot.

"Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man". -Jesuit aphorism.

Josh Duggar is Gollum in my view, someone who may well have turned out alright raised in something like a normal household but he didn't get that chance and now he is a horror.

Jesus wept.

[pnwmom]

35. I agree. He and all his siblings grew up brainwashed in an isolated, sick family cult.

Who was teaching him right from wrong?

How can anyone be surprised at what he became?

But I think our anger is more properly directed at the parents, or at his adult actions at the FRC -- not his wrongdoing as a teen.

[jtuck004]

36. This. He wasn't born to assault people, he developed that from what he was taught and

who he was.

What he did had nothing to do with sex, no more than my dog is thinking about sex when he mounts a pillow.

It was criminal assault and dominance, bullying, and those are learned behaviors.

I agree - I think snakepit maybe makes that place out to be better than it was, however. Wow.

[wryter2000]

33. I have a hard time believing he stopped

He doesn't appear to have had any therapy that would be effective in getting him to stop. Child abusers usually don't, or the Catholic church would have been successful in stopping their priests from abusing children.

I know of no accusations against him since he was 14, but the whole thing makes me go "hmmm."

[RandySF]

51. And Josh may not be the only molester in the family.

I would look closely at the other boys as well.

[3catwoman3]

57. Based on that short video...

... that I am seriously wishing I had not watched, the dad is a real perv.

[Kalidurga]

58. I am still having a hard time processing all of this...

There are so many issues. The biggest one for me is the parents. They are about the worst I have ever seen and until just a few days ago they were held up as the model that conservative fundy christians should follow. Or maybe in some circles they are still respected, I don't know I don't hang out in those kinds of circles. In any case how does one fail to protect their own children from being molested. I am not talking about people that don't know it's going on or someone taking their child to a party or some social function where they get molested. I am talking about this specific issue where they know it happened and who did it and instead of getting the situation resolved legally they evade the law. I don't get it.

I think they are worse than child molesters. In fact I would say they are molesters by proxy. From what I read in this thread they nurtured a very sexually charged atmosphere in their home including the father dry humping the mom in view of the children. Keeping the mom's cycle posted prominently in the home and involving the girls in encouraging the mom to have sex to make more babies. Making all of the children be hyper modest. Which IMO serves only to be a constant reminder that they are supposed to avoid having thoughts about sex. Cover up so you don't think about sex. It's like trying not to think about the word scooter. Don't think about scooters alright. Yes there is a scooter in the living room, but it's covered up so don't think about the scooter. Don't even think the word scooter. Thinking about scooters leads to impure thoughts.

[JustAnotherGen]

59. I'm in total agreement

And I wish we could alert on thread derailment.

My one hide came from challenging that individual - its what he does. Glad you pointed out how he took away from a thread on sexual violence to take a jab at SOS Clinton.

[Gothmog]

62. The victims need to be taken care of first