Candidate Bernie Sanders on Gun control.

[Autumn]

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban

Sanders Votes for Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban
Wednesday, April 17, 2013

WASHINGTON, April 17 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.

“Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities,” Sanders said. “There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others,” Sanders added.

The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. “To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories,” Sanders said.

Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales – up to 40 percent of all gun transfers – at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between “family, friends, and neighbors.”

In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.

[cali]

1. thanks. not that it will stop the lies and cheap despicable shots from those

low enough to be using the dead to score political points.

Saying that those who engage in this behavior are beneath contempt, doesn't even cover such loathsome behavior.

[truebrit71]

2. ^^this^^

eom

[Autumn]

3. I had thought of adding their statements on the shootings

but haven't found Hillary's.

[arcane1]

5. She sent a tweet that someone posted in another thread.

I'm not sure which thread now.

[BrotherIvan]

7. I looked for a statement from her

All I can find is a tweet on Perez Hilton. Is there anything else???

[Autumn]

11. Here's a link to Hillary's tweet.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6858748

[BrotherIvan]

20. Not Enough, Hillary

[riversedge]

52. msnbc just played her statement. It was moving.

[magical thyme]

18. here is her message

Hillary Clinton
@HillaryClinton

Heartbreaking news from Charleston - my thoughts and prayers are with you all. -H

9:38 PM

[BrotherIvan]

19. Shame

[Nye Bevan]

10. She expressed her shock and offered her condolences,

without making any political points.

[Autumn]

12. Interestingly enough so did Bernie. But a few posters in that thread made it about his votes

in their eagerness to score political points for Hillary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026857747

[frylock]

53. Other people made their own OPs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026858132

[Doctor_J]

9. You mean the hillarians, who are constantly whining about the Clinton bashing here?

Que surprise.

[Le Taz Hot]

45. And getting away with it.

Again.

Where have I seen this movie before?

It'll be purge time again soon and not one Hillary fan will be included.

[DanTex]

13. Cheap and despicable? LOL. The man voted against the Brady Bill!

He voted for civil immunity for gun companies. He thinks gun control is "elitist".

If he doesn't want to be criticized for his pro-gun record, then he shouldn't have been voting pro-gun for all those years.

[cali]

14. His position on gun control has evolved. Just as Hillary's position has evolved

on the Iraq war, and marriage equality and immigration and.....

[DanTex]

17. Right, and you would never hold Hillary's position on the IWR against her, obviously...

After all, that would be "cheap and despicable".

PS, I haven't heard Bernie actually say "my votes on the Brady Bill and gun industry immunity were mistakes." Has he actually acknowledged that?

[Blue_In_AK]

24. And policing.

[JaneyVee]

15. And wait until that F35 takes flight armed to the gills.

[cali]

16. does President Obama support the F-35? Why yes, janey. he does.

doesn't that make it a wonderful thing in janey's book?

[BrotherIvan]

21. Yes, it does

[Trajan]

26. LOL ...

Yep ...

[erronis]

32. Doesn't our senator Bernie also support basing the F35 in Burlington?

This would be another great opportunity for him to say "whoops - I made a bad decision", especially since he's probably not getting any nickels from the MIC in the future.

The F35 has been touted as a way to keep jobs in VT. If/when it ever lumbers its way here, the jobs will be highly specialized folk to try to keep it alive. Maybe 1 or 2 from here, but most from other bases. Of course there are also the collateral jobs - working at fast-food restaurants feeding the airmen/etc.

[cali]

36. I hope he does. He's wrong to support it.

[magical thyme]

23. He thinks gun control is "elitist".

Where did he say that?

Btw, it kind of is when you live in a rural state where many of your neighbors rely on hunting and fishing to eat. Vermont is like that, as is Maine.

[DanTex]

25. It's a quote from a friend of his.

The blue-collar agenda puts Sanders in a complicated position with the contemporary Left on noneconomic issues. For instance, he has cast votes against federal gun-control legislation, like the landmark 1994 Brady Bill, and owes his first congressional victory in part to support from the National Rifle Association. "He doesn't have a gun," says his close friend Richard Sugarman, a religion professor at the University of Vermont, when I asked how Sanders—a University of Chicago graduate from Brooklyn—became a Second Amendment guy. "He doesn't really care about guns. But he cares that other people care about guns. He thinks there's an elitism in the antigun movement."

http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/i-m-right-and-everybody-else-is-wrong-clear-about-that-20140618

That belief is actually pretty common in gun nut circles. They see gun control as bicoastal liberals trying to tell "real Americans" how to live their lives.

[arcane1]

28. "He thinks there's an elitism in the antigun movement." is not "gun control is elitist"

Got any more dishonest distortions?

[DanTex]

29. Those are pretty similar. And either way, that's a teabagger talking point.

It totally ignores the fact that the victims of gun violence are also among the most vulnerable members of society, often poor urban minorities. I guess since there are no urban minorities in Vermont, he doesn't think of it this way.

[cali]

37. no, it's not similar.

[DanTex]

38. Yes, it is similar. And it is a teabagger talking point.

[Marr]

57. "Pretty similar". I'll keep that in mind next time I see you employing quotation marks.

[magical thyme]

27. on the brady bill and civil immunity

After the massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in 2012, Sanders reversed his position on the Brady Bill the next year and voted to expand background checks.

Note that his position evolved based on events on the ground, not political expediency.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/05/13/why-the-most-liberal-candidate-for-president-opposes-strict-gun-control/


gun manufacturers cannot control how their products are used, any more than any other manufacturer can.

"You cannot sue Toyota because someone intentionally plows through a crowd of people with their car, which is the same concept this bill applied to gun manufacturers. Not liking that these kinds of semi-automatic rifles are legally available to the public is a completely different legislative matter, but people suing companies for selling products they’re allowed to sell is ridiculous."
http://www.truthdig.com/report/page2/bernie_sanders_is_no_gun_nut_20150520

Oh, and on the topic of semi-automatic rifles:
Voted YES on banning high-capacity magazines of over 10 bullets.
http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm

[DanTex]

31. Please don't sink to the level of trying to defend his immunity vote.

If gun manufacturers were really in the same position as auto manufacturers with respect to these lawsuits, then they wouldn't need a special law to protect them specifically. If the gun lawsuits were really as so absurd as the NRAers would like you to believe, then this bill wouldn't have been necessary. The reason that the law was necessary is because gun companies were starting to actually lose, and the NRA didn't like that one bit.

And unlike what that gun nut article you cited said, you actually can sue Toyota if you get hit by a Toyota truck. In fact, you can even sue Toyota if you get hit by a Ford truck. Or even if you don't get hit by a truck at all. Of course, what will happen is your suit will get thrown out of court, and you will be forced to pay Toyota's legal fees because there are already laws on the books against frivolous lawsuits.

For someone who claims to be railing against corporate power, to vote for a law that gives civil immunity to corporations whose products kill 30,000 Americans every year is a mindbending act of hypocrisy.

[magical thyme]

41. if auto manufacturers were in the same position of gun manufactuers,

i.e. the target of a specific group of "anti-car" activists, then they, too might need such a law to stop an onslaught of frivolous lawsuits.

[DanTex]

44. Funny that you mention the auto industry, because they have been the target of many

lawsuits in the past. As have a lot of corporations in a lot of industries, often from activists. And, invariably, the companies being sued call the lawsuits "frivolous". Of course, as with the gun industry, the courts often disagree.

The idea that anyone claiming to be a progressive would stick up for corporations to prevent them from being sued by activists is, like I said, mindbendingly hypocritical. There's really no other way to describe it. And the gun industry of all things. Could it possibly be worse? Maybe if he stuck up for the tobacco industry, I guess.

[magical thyme]

48. auto manufacturer lawsuits as a result of people deliberately mowing down pedestrians?

or as a result of malfunctioning parts, poor design (exploding gas tanks), etc.

The gun manufacturer immunity is specific to misuse of guns, not poor design causing accidents.

[DanTex]

50. Are you an NRA member by any chance?

There are lots of lawsuits for lots of reasons. The frivolous ones get thrown out of court, so the idea that the gun lawsuits were frivolous is plainly absurd. If they were frivolous, the gun industry wouldn't need the GOP (with the help of Bernie) to pass a law specifically protecting it.

The question was whether corporate policies and practices in the gun industry were contributing to gun violence, and whether the companies were legally liable for that. Like with any other company, this should be decided by the courts. I'm sure you'd be the first one in line to file a brief in favor of the industry and against the victims, which is your right, but the victims have the right to be heard also.

At least they used to, until Bernie decided to stand up for the gun companies and against the people. Which, given his anti-corporate rhetoric is one of the most hypocritical acts I can imagine.

[magical thyme]

51. No, I'm not. I've never owned or even touched a gun.

But I live rurally and I have neighbors who literally hunt and fish to eat.

"At least they used to, until Bernie decided to stand up for the gun companies and against the people. Which, given his anti-corporate rhetoric is one of the most hypocritical acts I can imagine."

What a steaming load of b.s. This "conversation" is over. Have a nice day.

[DanTex]

59. Aha. So you simply object to the rights of people to access the courts and attempt

to hold corporations responsible, out of general principle.

The strange things you can find on the internet...

[randys1]

54. Misuse? but the purpose of the gun is to kill...

[magical thyme]

56. I see ignored is babbling to him/her/itself. nt

[uponit7771]

34. WHOA!!!! WTF?! ... where did he say the "elitist" comment!? ... He sounds like a humper not

... someone who's taking middle ground on the issue.

[DanTex]

35. It was a friend of his describing his pro-gun stance:

The blue-collar agenda puts Sanders in a complicated position with the contemporary Left on noneconomic issues. For instance, he has cast votes against federal gun-control legislation, like the landmark 1994 Brady Bill, and owes his first congressional victory in part to support from the National Rifle Association. "He doesn't have a gun," says his close friend Richard Sugarman, a religion professor at the University of Vermont, when I asked how Sanders—a University of Chicago graduate from Brooklyn—became a Second Amendment guy. "He doesn't really care about guns. But he cares that other people care about guns. He thinks there's an elitism in the antigun movement."

http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/i-m-right-and-everybody-else-is-wrong-clear-about-that-20140618

[magical thyme]

39. iow, he didn't say it. somebody else did

characterizing how *they* view him.

[uponit7771]

42. ... unnnn, on the face of it he doesn't have to say it his voting record does. I'm going to look int

... it but I'm thinking what's he supposed to say to communities of color "I was kidding"?!

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressional-connection/coverage/stark-divide-between-blacks-whites-on-gun-control-and-health-care-20130926

[DanTex]

43. Correct. A good friend of his described his feelings in that way.

[uponit7771]

40. I've made the point over and over again that none of the dem candidates can throw a stone...

... and I'm taking back at the overt vitriol thrown at Clinton when a dem candidate has this kind of record when it comes to guns.

What message is he going to take to the black community who WANTS some common sense on the gun control issue

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressional-connection/coverage/stark-divide-between-blacks-whites-on-gun-control-and-health-care-20130926

What's he supposed to say!? Ignore that. I was kidding!?

Everyone of these candidates have their warts ... I'm going to look into this voting ...

What are his positions on guns now?

[arcane1]

47. He didn't. It's another lie n/t

[uponit7771]

49. So Sanders friend lied about what Sanders thought about people who wanted gun control? tia

[grntuscarora]

58. +1.

Sander's belief that increased access to mental health care is going to solve the problem is naive, and that's the nicest thing I can say about it. That unbalanced people with weapons are going to suddenly have epiphanies, and voluntarily march themselves to the nearest therapist, is just plain silly.
The problem of the ease of access to high-powered weaponry in the U.S. is a topic any presidential candidate ought to be willing to discuss.
Crickets chirping from Sanders.
As I said once before, this is his Achilles heel.

[arcane1]

4. An honest post at last!!

[Martin Eden]

6. Nutjobs with guns are a much greater threat to the American people than Middle East terrorists

Rightwingers promote the proliferation of guns in America while bankrupting our treasury fighting senseless wars overseas.

[madokie]

8. Thats the way I see it too

[BrotherIvan]

22. Yes

[SoapBox]

30. Yup.

[LanternWaste]

33. Statistically, even sane people with guns are a greater threat...

Statistically, even sane people with guns are a greater threat...

[Martin Eden]

55. ... to kill themselves or a family member, by accident or otherwise

Also criminal shootings, including gangs. Throw in abusive cops for good measure.

I guess it's a matter of whether the definition of "nutjob" applies to more than just deranged killers in mass shootings.

Many irrational acts with guns are committed by people who would not be diagnosed as mentally ill.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

46. I'm old enough to remember when there was talk of banning hand guns.