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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAla. Chief Justice Roy Moore Comes Undone After Gay Marriage Ruling
Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, who has vehemently opposed same-sex marriage in his state, broke down over the weekend after the Supreme Court ruled that gay couples have the right to marry.
"Just who do they think they are when one person can reverse 200-and-something years of precedent in our country and thousands of years of precedent in western civilization," Moore said on Sunday while speaking at the Kimberly Church of God's "God and Country Day," according to the Associated Press.
The justice warned that ruling could infringe upon the religious freedoms of Christians in the U.S. "Welcome to the new world. It's just changed for you Christians. You are going to be persecuted according to the U.S Supreme Court dissents," he said.
"Is there such a thing as morality anymore?" Moore continued. "Sodomy for centuries was declared to be against the laws of nature and nature's God. And now if you say that in public, and I guess I am, am I violating somebody's civil rights? Have we elevated morality to immorality? Do we call good, bad? What are we Christians to do?"
more
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/roy-more-supreme-court-gay-marriaeg
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)where is the LGBT agenda to destroy religion? I've never hear of it. Individuals such as this really need to get a grip on life and reality, and also realize much of the world is not as clueless as their flocks.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)RKP5637
(67,086 posts)gets all settled, it will continue on forever with some people/groups like with racism. Some just love hatred against someone, some group, etc. I keep thinking about George Wallace and his standoffs.
MiniMe
(21,709 posts)I just don't follow their logic here. Having something not go your way is not persecution.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)to infer others by invoking the name of the Almighty. Remember that the constitution rests on the idea that all men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator etc
Up to the ruling, the name of God trumped all civil rights, and now the constitution indirectly grants civil rights in the name of God.
The bigots feel that their biggest trump card has been taken away.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)hire gay pastors, etc and that they'll lose their tax exemptions otherwise. They're really freaked out about their tax exemptions.
Of course that's dumb, and churches have wide latitude to do whatever they want. But there are some issues on the fringes of their concerns (married student housing at their colleges, for example) where the ruling could cause them some genuine legal headaches. But nothing proportionate to their level of panic.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,392 posts)However, as PUBLIC officials, they are (supposed to be) bound to (secular) law and shouldn't get any (religious-based) exemptions from doing their job, which, of course, is serving the public. If we start carving out all kinds of exemptions for public officials in the course of performing their assigned duties, the system isn't going to be able to work right and, besides, serving ALL of the public is what PUBLIC officials are supposed to be doing. Anybody who can't- or won't- do what they were hired to do needs to move on and find a job more aligned with their religious beliefs (they ARE out there!).
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)marriage (an optional church ceremony if you want one) and civil marriage (issuance of your license and government, official recognition of our marriage with maybe a secular "ceremony" are two separate acts from a legal point of view. Legally, the only marriage that counts is the civil marriage -- the issuance of your license.
OK. Many people -- but if this Moore managed to pass a state bar association examination, surely HE should know the difference between religious marriage and the issuance of a marriage license and government recognition of your marriage.
A state supreme court justice????
Oh, well. Alabama. And some DUers from the South are frustrated with the attitudes of other DUers toward the South.
It's this kind of oblivious ignorance that gives Southerners and the South a bad reputation. Sorry. I lived in the South for a time in high school. But this Moore is really stupid, really, really stupid. What a waste of a law school education.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The thing they are selling is that churches would be forced to perform "gay weddings". Not gonna happen. Every church gets to decide who can and can not be married in that church. For example, I'm straight but I can't get married in a lot of churches/synagogues/mosques because I'm an atheist.
It's perfectly legal for churches to do that. And the same rights would let them refuse any same-sex marriage ceremony.
But fear of "the gays" storming their house of worship is fantastic for raising money and conning people into voting against their interests.
Which gets to who they are selling to. They're selling to bigots. Some bigots would like to continue to be bigots, and thus not recognize or facilitate any same-sex marriages. But they work in the government, or have a business open to the public, where they are not allowed to discriminate like a church. So this ruling means they would have to stop behaving as bigots.
Which they label as persecution, because again it works great for raising money and conning people into voting against their interests.
catrose
(5,059 posts)They could legally marry, but no one forced churches and ministers to do so. So people starting renting restaurants and other nonreligious venues for their weddings, and it's all worked fine.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)catrose
(5,059 posts)SwissTony
(2,560 posts)Same sex marriage has been legal since April 1 2001
Number of Christians persecuted...em...em...em. Maybe none?
Actually, exactly none. It's a complete non-issue here.
Logic is a concept unknown to those who think same-sex marriage will change their lives...
Skittles
(153,113 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)Because they allowed "the sodomy?"
Or maybe these cats want "the sodomy" but fear the smite, and feel envious that the gays are getting preferential treatment because they get to enjoy "the sodomy" without suffering the smite?
teach1st
(5,932 posts)Roy Moore, nobody is trying to persecute you or control what you say in public. Your spiritual beliefs are your own business. That's America. Just don't try to turn your beliefs into public policy, especially when they take freedoms away from citizens. That's not America. Many Biblical scholars convincingly argue that the sins of Sodom were sins of hospitality and greed, not of sexuality. Besides, do you really want to argue about morality based on events in Genesis 19, the same chapter in which it is written that Lot's daughters got him drunk on wine in order to seduce him (Genesis 19:30-37)?
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)That story they always use involving Lot always irritates me. Like he was some moral example.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)The case of the lady who was in personnel at a university and wrote a letter to a paper saying that prohibitions of same-sex marriage wasn't the same thing as racial discrimination comes to mind.
Had to google: Crystal Dixon, and the firing has been upheld by multiple courts:
http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2012/12/19/university-of-toledo-officials-firing.html
yellowcanine
(35,693 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)Go somewhere and start your own christian country, douchebag. Rights are not a zero sum game, you don't lose any because somebody else gains some.
mwooldri
(10,299 posts)The judge is wrong.... tularetom is right.... allowing a couple to marry irrespective of gender does not alter a marriage conducted under Christian rites.
As for my Christian beliefs... I'll pray for him... and others like him... that they get to have a proper personal relationship with God. I cant speak for the man himself but I'm certain Jesus would be perfectly okay with Ada and Eve deciding to commit their lives to be together forever. Certain "Wall Street Bankers" however might not fare as well... that is if you believe (as i do) that the Bible has some truth in it. (Horribly complicated set of books with contradictions galore.... no wonder the monks prayed so darned often..... )
BarbaRosa
(2,684 posts)just sayin'.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)for some serious work.
Nay
(12,051 posts)who has led his courtroom in Christian prayer and had a large depiction of the 10 Commandments hanging in the courtroom, which caused the ACLU to intervene.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)Get over yourself, Moore!
brooklynite
(94,340 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)..
yellowcanine
(35,693 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)But only the Christians who are ALSO bigoted assholes. It's a Venn diagram thing.
yellowcanine
(35,693 posts)Whenever someone says "we Christians" I say "which WE are you referring to?" He speaks for himself. Some others who call themselves Christians may agree with him. But he does not speak for Christians.
AwakeAtLast
(14,123 posts)He wants the world to be the way he wants it, no compromise.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)It's like listening to a bunch of drunks crying in their beer or something. I'm surprised none of the country singers has decided to write an oh, woe is me, poor persecuted Christian country song to uplift their spirits.
The ruling doesn't mean they have to have gay marriage. They can still have their straight marriages and shoot out babies every 9 months like so many of them always have. Nothing is stopping them. They make me sick with their incessant whining. Is this going to be something they are still whining about 150 years from now? I have a gut feeling it is. They need to get over themselves.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)MineralMan
(146,255 posts)Your fly is open again. Sheesh!
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)As to what he and his fellow bigots should do now, it really doesn't matter. Continue to seethe in impotent rage. Quake in fear that what went around is going to come around, that you'll be treated as you have treated others. But that's needless, really. Nobody cares what you do so long as you keep it to yourselves and don't violate anyone's rights. Just be a good law-abiding citizen and you can hate all the live-long day.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)For Christians such as yourself, Roy, I suggest self-immolation! Go out in a blaze of glory! Take one for the God-JC Team!
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)to become Letter to Chief Justice Moore:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/drlaura.asp
bucolic_frolic
(43,046 posts)Secular freedom is infringing on religious freedom.
Everyone has their own reality.
Religious freedom is infringing on secular freedom.
Live and let live. You think your way, let everyone else have
that privilege too.
cloudbase
(5,511 posts)Try "Live and let live."
SunSeeker
(51,512 posts)AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)to be treated equally by being able to enjoy the same Life Liberty and Justices that their neighbors have enjoyed for decades, to which some are still fighting for?"
shameful this country has been I agree, genocide and inequality were once proud moments for far too many Americans, inexcusably shameful!
He needs new speech writers.....
niyad
(113,056 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)next football season.
All you folks in Alabama, you can blame 'ol Roy Moore when both teams barely make it to a Bowl next year.
rocktivity
(44,572 posts)saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)"Who am I to judge?"
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)in the first place.
Whatta maroon.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Pandering to popular prejudices is no substitute for understanding and respecting the law.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,374 posts)or how about judging not, lest ye be judged?
How about being happy for people who find love and commit to each other?
How about staying out of everyone's bedroom?
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)...then he should not marry someone of the same sex. Seems like a simple solution to me.
So what's the problem?
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)struggle4progress
(118,228 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)niyad
(113,056 posts)niyad
(113,056 posts)ann---
(1,933 posts)marry same-sex couples - or doesn't this yokel know that?
Does he also realize that many (christian) heterosexual couples
participate in sodomy?
TheOther95Percent
(1,035 posts)Traditional General Characteristics
Goal: To search for a system for living.
Focus on: The structure and meaning of life. Using a structure to move toward the ideal, the right way
Basic Motivation: I will follow the system I believe in and apply it to making my decisions in life.
Value to the Team: Dedicated to the system. Predictable and consistent in making value judgments. Works by the book, upholds and honors traditions. Supports a chain of command. Holds others to their own high standards.
People Reading Process: Predictable, Firm/Decisive, Dutiful/Loyal, Guided by personal integrity and solid belief structure. Involved in worthy causes that support their beliefs.
Tendency Under Stress: Closed-minded when presented with evidence that conflicts with their beliefs. Hangs on to tradition too long (the way things have always been done). Youre either with me or against me. Willing to sacrifice everything for personal principles. May break the law following their own book of rules. Strongly opposes others beliefs, if they are different from own.
I always think of this motivator when I deal with people with Fundies. It explains so much.
Skittles
(153,113 posts)yes INDEED
DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)It's simple. Read your bible:
John 12:34-25
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
mwooldri
(10,299 posts)I could add Luke 10:27 to that too... though with emphasis on part B (love your neighbor as yourself).
You must have been reading out of the Bible I know.... He seems to be reading from the King Brutus I version.... so old it was written before Christ came....
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)It would surely be the long-overdue end to his judicial career.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Really?
How about buck the fuck up?
Someone call Roy a whaaaambulance.
rocktivity
(44,572 posts)Moore later told AL.com that while the order does not prohibit probate judges from issuing gay marriage licenses, they will not be forced to issue the licenses in the next 25 days.
rocktivity
Third Doctor
(1,574 posts)He hates the fact that he does not have a right to discriminate based on his religious beliefs. Someone like this should not hold office but my state being Alabama likes loons like this.
staggerleem
(469 posts)"Just who do they think they are when one person can reverse 200-and-something years of precedent...?"
This is a wrong-headed question on it's face, Judge Moore. The Supreme Court decision was made by FIVE people - not ONE - but the number of Judges that voted either way is far less important than the number of people OUT HERE (i. e., NOT on a Judicial bench) who support the decision. If you care to TRULY evaluate the numbers, Judge, I'm sure you'll find yourself DEEPLY in the minority.
"Is there such a thing as morality anymore?" Of course there is - but it's NOT about who you sleep with or how. It's about HONESTY, LOYALTY, and FAITHFULNESS to your partner. I will observe that there seem to be a dearth of the things on MY list of what comprises "morality" on YOUR side of the aisle, Judge. Maybe your list is different. Maybe YOU think that a man who sleeps with a different woman every night is moral, or perhaps that he is more moral than two women who've been together and faithful to one another for 20+ years. That's your opinion, and this is America, so you're entitled to it, I guess (even while you seem to believe that we are NOT entitled to ours. Funny how THAT works, ain't it?) Full disclosure - I am a hetero male who has been sleeping with the same woman (and NOBODY else) for over 40 years, and neither my wife nor I feel in the least bit threatened by this decision, because we understand that who someone else loves (or is ALLOWED to love) has no effect on how we love each other.
"Have we elevated morality to immorality?" I think you meant to say that the other way around, Roy-Boy, but regardless, the answer is a solid and resounding "NO!", assuming you actually have some idea about what truly comprises moral behavior (see above.)
"What are we Christians to do?" How about a nice, tall, cold glass of "Sit Down & STFU?" You've had it your way FOREVER, and now you don't any more. We dealt with it, now it's YOUR TURN!
Oh and by the way, Judge, in case there's any question, no American will EVER be REQUIRED to marry within their own sex - it's a permission, NOT a mandate, so you don't need to worry about being forced into "man-dates". I just wanted to be sure you were clear on that point.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)Their whole mindset comes from an authoritarian (ultimate to them) view of the world. Where others MUST submit to THEIR way of thinking or else it undermines the whole system of "my religion is the most powerful and has to be obeyed".
They do not comprehend religious freedom of being able to be free of religion.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Well, I suppose there is the possibility us heathens could start tossing you and yours into a modern day arena. That should be good for a laugh or six, and some money in the meantime.