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Sun Jul 5, 2015, 06:10 PM

Putting the Greek debt in perspective

Greece has a total debt of about $350 billion.

http://moneymorning.com/2015/03/25/how-much-does-greece-owe-4-charts-that-put-greek-debt-in-perspective/

To put that number in perspective it is about 23% of the estimated program cost of the F35 that cannot fly in rain, gets outfought by an F16 and costs approximately $1.5 trillion over the life of the plane, almost certainly a conservative estimate given the history of military contracting in the US.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101883138

21 replies, 1986 views

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Putting the Greek debt in perspective (Original post)
Fumesucker Jul 2015 OP
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #1
MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 #2
Sherman A1 Jul 2015 #3
mythology Jul 2015 #4
cstanleytech Jul 2015 #7
Fumesucker Jul 2015 #8
PETRUS Jul 2015 #10
Fumesucker Jul 2015 #14
Igel Jul 2015 #16
PETRUS Jul 2015 #19
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2015 #5
Fumesucker Jul 2015 #9
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2015 #13
Fumesucker Jul 2015 #15
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2015 #20
Fumesucker Jul 2015 #21
OnlyBernieBurnsBush Jul 2015 #6
Fumesucker Jul 2015 #12
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #11
Adrahil Jul 2015 #17
Hydra Jul 2015 #18

Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 06:30 PM

1. Yep.

Chump change to the military-industrial-congressional complex.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 06:35 PM

2. +1.5 trillion

 

That definitely helps to put it in perspective.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 06:43 PM

3. K&R

Well said.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 07:50 PM

4. That actually really doesn't put it in perspective

 

because it doesn't compare two similarly sized economies.

Greek's GDP is about $22,000 per capita. The same in the U.S. is about $53,000. The total economy of Greece is about 238 billion dollars and the total size of the U.S. GDP is about 17.5 trillion dollars.

So Greek's debit is actually about 1.5 times the size of their total economy.

You can't really compare the largest economy in the world to a country that is in the mid to low 40s in terms of size.

That said, we also drastically need to cut back on our military spending and get our financial house in better order.

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Response to mythology (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:10 PM

7. "we also drastically need to cut back on our military spending" So true, we would be far better off

cutting our military spending by 40% (and we would still be outspending China and Russia combined by far) and redirecting the money to improving things like the highways, bridges and rail system in this country that are literally falling apart and we would see a far bigger economic return if we did that than anything because it would put far more people to work and get money right into the economy.

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Response to mythology (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:10 PM

8. Perspective counts for a lot

And there is always more than one way of looking at things, I was giving one perspective, not saying it was the only one. The world economy is likely to be shaken and possibly crashed by an amount that is almost trivial in the grand scheme of things, we are throwing away more than four times the Greek debt on a bunch of hangar queens that melt the deck of the carrier that was designed for their naval deployment when they land on it.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:18 PM

10. Another number: $10 trillion

From the CEPR:

"Using the I.M.F. projections from April 2008 as a benchmark, the policies pursued by the euro zone leadership will have the cost the region more than $10 trillion (@ $30,000 per person) by the end of 2015. In this context it is interesting that the Washington Post condemns the Greek government as being irresponsible."

http://www.cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/washington-post-touts-greek-growth-that-will-restore-2007-gdp-in-2035

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Response to PETRUS (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:43 PM

14. Now that really is an interesting perspective

Things that make you go Hmmmmm....

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Response to PETRUS (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 09:10 PM

16. Fiction.

"Using the projections" before fall 2008 ... You remember fall 2008, don't you?

In fact, using projections completed about the same time that the first data showing we were entering a recession were about due.

The same kind of thinking was in 2001, 2002: Using projections we'd have a huge surplus. Of course, that really assumed no increase in spending and instead of a recession continued, unabated growth like in the '90s. BTW, at the time all the leading indicators said "recession in 3 ... 2 ... 1."

Look at the projections for the US economy in mid 2009, the effects of the stimulus and TARP. You'll find that Obama, by that measure, cost us far more than the Greek debt.

It's a bad methodology, using assumptions that change in conjunction with a sketchy understanding of the subject; we only use it when it makes us look good, and spot its flaws when it makes us look bad. It's always flawed. The longer the term, the more flawed.

One projection that did turn out to be fairly correct was very short term: In early 2008 there was an anti-recession stimulus. Forecasts that it would lose its effect in late summer/early fall 2008. That came around and nobody did anything. The assumptions didn't change, and it was short-term enough that the sketchy theory had enough predictive umph.

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Response to Igel (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 09:27 PM

19. Either way, it calls into question the IMF's judgement on economic matters, eh? nt

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 07:55 PM

5. 130+% of GDP...

so, no... the cost of a weapon system doesn't put it into perspective.

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:11 PM

9. It's good that there is only one way to look at things, one perspective

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:42 PM

13. laugh all you like...

your 'perspective' is not relevant...

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:48 PM

15. Thirty one recs as of this moment

Evidently not everyone agrees with you.

Just to slide a little ad populum argument in here.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 09:30 PM

20. yes, DU has all the brains regarding international monetary policy

i bow down to their (and your) obvious prowess...

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #20)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 10:09 PM

21. You are completely missing my point while helping me make it

In terms of the world economy the Greek debt is small potatoes, why is a relatively minor amount of money causing such havoc in finance and banking unless some power or powers wish for the havoc?

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 07:58 PM

6. Merkel doesn't care.

 

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Response to OnlyBernieBurnsBush (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:41 PM

12. OK, now that you mention it I see the resemblance




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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:38 PM

11. But we NEED the F35 for the upcoming Earth VS Flying Saucers air war....

 

Everyone knows flying saucers can't fly in the rain either.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 09:23 PM

17. Greek GDP is roughly $250 Billion

 

U.S. Economy is about $17.5 TRILLION.


It makes a difference. a BIG difference.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 09:25 PM

18. I like how you put this

It's like how all the Republicans and "Sensible" Democrats scream about how SSI and other social programs are financially destroying us...while they spend 50+% of the yearly budget on the Military.

Pure insanity.

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