progressive bad ass

[arely staircase]

Tuesday's Iran deal confirms something that has been clear for a while now: Barack Obama is one of the most consequential presidents in American history — and he will be a particularly towering figure in the history of American progressivism.

Obama has reestablished productive diplomacy as the central task of a progressive foreign policy, and as a viable alternative approach to dealing with countries the GOP foreign policy establishment would rather bomb. He established a viable alternative to the liberal hawks that dominated Democratic thinking during the Bush years, and held positions of influence on Hillary Clinton's 2008 campaign. And he developed a cadre of aides who can carry on that legacy to future Democratic administrations, and keep a tradition of dovishness alive.

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/26/8849925/obama-obamacare-history-presidents

[shenmue]

1. He kicks ass

[MH1]

2. He also has possibly the best Secretary of State in history.

In my opinion.

[arely staircase]

3. here is one of my favorites

And of course, Iran isn't the only country on Sorta's list with whom Obama has engaged in direct talks. He also ended America's failed policy of isolating Cuba, ending the embargo and allowing for a rapprochement after more than 50 years. His radical openness to dialogue abroad got results in the form of two of the biggest diplomatic breakthroughs since the Oslo Accords in 1994, perhaps since Camp David in 1978.

[AtomicKitten]

8. He and Fazir are being recommended for a Nobel Peace Prize.

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/07/14/420267/Zarif-kerry-nobel-SIPRI

John Kerry has brought gravitas to State. He's risen to the challenges with steely-eyed determination and grace. The Nobel Peace Prize for his work on behalf of peace would be well-deserved. He is THE statesman for the times.

[nikto]

23. For Sec Of State, don't forget George Marshall (Truman)

Marshall is a pretty big yardstick to measure by, IMO.

[Scootaloo]

52. Meaning no slight to Sec. Kerry, but that's an awfully shallow pool

I'm not disagreeing with you, and I'm not bagging on Kerry. Just that... we don't have an outstanding record of SecStates in this country, y'know? I mean even Thomas Jefferson was an enormous prick.

[freshwest]

4. His response in the debates is why I voted for him. Greatest POTUS in my lifetime.

[uponit7771]

5. +1

[stevenleser]

6. I hope it hasn't escaped attention that the same folks who accused him of being a warmonger and

third wayer are accusing a Democratic primary candidate of the same thing.

They were wrong about Obama and they are wrong about that Democratic primary candidate.

[arely staircase]

9. They will bellyache through the next eight years of clinton

If sanders got the nomination they would turn on him.

[calimary]

10. Take that one to the bank. Take BOTH those statements to the bank.

If either makes it to the White House, they will actually have won the election for the next "goddamn used car salesman/woman."

[Historic NY]

14. +1

[arely staircase]

18. Well regarding that, that drunk wannabe HST looks lile a fool

But he has dozens of followers.

[Fearless]

16. Who would care what she does in retirement?

[stevenleser]

20. She won't be retired, she will be POTUS. nt

[Fearless]

29. She won't. She makes the same mistakes as last time.

And against a smarter populace.

[stevenleser]

51. Only mistake she made last time that mattered was not thinking she needed the caucus states

after Iowa. She thought it would be over by then. She has already rectified that.

So no, you are wrong.

[Fearless]

53. Actually she's alienating her base by staging and essentially faking public events

She is trying to show the world a fake image. And we don't like that image. We don't need another corporate-run candidate. We have over a dozen, and they're all Republicans.

[Fearless]

15. Drones still flying?

He can wear many hats but war hawk is still one of them.

[stevenleser]

17. Going after groups plotting to attack us doesn't make you a war hawk. Nt

[Fearless]

28. I feel for you.

But no. You are very wrong in your assessment.

[stevenleser]

42. No need. The current and next President will be doing things that I agree with.

And no, I'm right. The entire UN Security Council agrees that Al Qaeda and ISIS are terrorists and have passed multiple resolutions making any kind of material support to them against international law.

[Fearless]

44. The US has without cause used drones in soverign airspace.

It has used drones without regard to human life or collateral damage. It continues to use them, even though data shows that they are grossly inaccurate in their "strikes" and furthermore very quick to sway public opinion against the US when used in those nations.

[stevenleser]

45. The International Community doesn't see it that way. nt

[Fearless]

46. That's simply untrue.

[stevenleser]

47. No it's not, and you can tell that from this voluminous list of resolutions regarding Al Qaeda

http://www.un.org/sc/committees/1267/resolutions.shtml

[Fearless]

48. It is.

It scars our image. And it is a blight. It is no different than bombs or invading forces. It is needless and padding the pockets of no-bid contract companies fleecing billions off of US taxpayers.

[stevenleser]

49. I have a link to back me up that carries the weight of international law. You have opinion. nt

[Fearless]

54. I'm telling you that "international law" isn't worth crap

People in these countries despise us because of our actions. Average people. Ordinary people. Not zealots and corrupt leaders. We've created the next generation of terrorists the same as we created the last.

[stevenleser]

56. Actually, International law is almost the only thing that matters.

That people don't like us in those countries is sad, but it's not the fault of the US and the West that law and order in those areas is close to nonexistent and thus international criminals feel (and are) safe there.

[Fearless]

59. They are bombing to achieve peace, can't you see how asinine that is??

[lark]

7. He gives with one hand and takes it back with the other.

Yes, the Iran deal is awesome, one of the best things he's done in 8 years.

However, TPP is a total abomination and he will live on in infamy for this. It's worse than NAFTA and as bad if not worse than the repeal of Glass Steagal. At least GS didn't raise the cost of rx astronomically like TPP does.

He's a complicated person and a very mixed bag.

[Hekate]

11. I'd like to point out that's what was said about the Iran deal. Any deal is not done until it's done

....and it is impossible to work out any major international agreement in the full glare of publicity. There is always going to be a period of time for Congressional review and a period of time for the public to review it as well. That's how it works in the U.S.

So far, Obama has not "betrayed" us on any issue, despite the periodic hysteria at DU. I doubt he will do so with the TPP.

[uponit7771]

12. Obama has kept, compromised or working on around 80% of his promises. That's excellent for anyone

...president or not.

And this is by politifact which is blaming him for something he can't help.

[nikto]

24. My sentiments exactly, lark

Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 11:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Obama is very much a mixed-bag (e.g. seeks peace with Iran and opening Cuba, over the attacks of the war-loving
neocons, but does drone-hits on "likely suspects" in Yemen and elsewhere).

Some folks on DU have a desperate need to see Obama as "pure", or something.
That is a false vision, IMO.

Obama is best appreciated without rose-colored glasses, but admittedly, it is hard for some folks
to acknowledge complexity in a public figure, and need to see a "Pure Hero", or something along those lines.

But some folks are able to accept some figures with complexity intact.
For me, a perfect example is FDR----He gave us the New Deal and many other great innovations
for The People (not elites).
But----FDR also would not accept the "Ship of Jews" seeking asylum, and most on that ship,
died in Nazi Germany, in the end.
Also, FDR permitted cannabis to be made illegal by self-serving corporate insiders' shenanigans
during his administration.
In addition, there is the horrendous Japanese Internment.

Those exceptions are bad, for sure.
But they do not keep me from appreciating the great GOOD that FDR did.

IMO, a similar viewpoint is necessary, and appropriate, for Obama.


I guess, like you, I just appreciate reality, with all its blemishes, more than glossing-over unpleasant truths just to
make something more palatable, by superimposing a false sense of "purity".

Heck, even Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus, and did some other political-hardball stuff to achieve his goals.
Flaws? Yes. But we still celebrate Lincoln as a Great Pres, and he totally deserves it, just like
Obama deserves credit for the best, and gutsiest, things he has done.

[stopwastingmymoney]

30. I have a comment to consider on the drone issue

As someone with a beloved younger brother who is still in the national guard after 15 years, I'm grateful that this President, while still waging war, is doing it in a way that does not involve sending nearly as many of our soldiers into danger.

Drones may be terrible but they're a tactic, a lesser of evils tactic. Now, if you wanted to talk about whether of not we should be waging that war at all, that's a different conversation.
One I'd be happy to have.

I'll take this President over every other option we've been offered.

[nikto]

32. I just hope that ...

The drone attacks' "collateral damage" does not someday influence or inspire a 9-11-type
attack on this country, which could do more to either send large numbers of American youths
overseas to fight, or even bring back the draft, if the attack is severe enough.

In any case, I hope your brother is able to avoid war of any kind while serving.

[stopwastingmymoney]

33. Thank you

I agree on both points

[Plucketeer]

39. We keep hearing how these drones are prime recruiting tools for those who suffer from them

What's ironic is that they're impacting recruitment here at home too! The US Air Force is going to start offering $15K sign-up bonuses to prospective drone pilots - this because of the attrition rates that are affecting regular drone operations. The pilots "burn out" due to the lingering remorse they have over executing and reviewing the death and destruction they're wreaking via this 21st century warfare.

[mentalslavery]

13. More of a mixed bag

but, I'm satisfied. Considering the shit storm he was handed I can argue that another would have done better. Now on to Sanders!!!

[AikenYankee]

19. K&R.

[spanone]

21. k&r...

[nikto]

22. Iran policy is Progressive, along with opening Cuba

I give full credit to Obama for standing-up to the neocons behind-the-scenes (a super-tough thing to do,
that most Americans have absolutely no awareness or appreciation of).

And to his great credit, Obama is about the most gentlemanly and poised President I have ever seen under attack from partisans.
He's had to be.

Obama is moving in a Progressive direction, in, thank God, at least some areas.

I just wish he were as Progressive in Public Education policy, Wall Street governance and TPP, in which he basically
embodies the philosophy of Milton Friedman.

Milton Friedman's philosophy is about as anti-Progressive and anti-populist as you can get.

If Obama can turn-away from those policies, too, and adopt truly Progressive stands on those issues,
then he will have earned the title of "Progressive bad ass".

But domestic policy (aside from pushing for higher minimum wage, and putting-in a corporate, profit-based
healthcare system, which may possibly evolve into single-payer someday, hopefully), counts too.

It really does.

Not trying to be negative, just realistic.

[Hotler]

25. "And he developed a cadre of aides..."

Where was his cadre of aids to throw the Wall St. shit stains in prison???? He's good, but not that good.

[HassleCat]

26. I guess it's irony

People disagree about what constitutes irony, but most people find it ironic when someone says one thing, then turns around 180 degrees and says the opposite. A couple years ago, conventional wisdom said Obama would have no legacy, no significant accomplishments, and so on. Now they're singing a different tune, aren't they? Good day to be a Democrat.

[MannyGoldstein]

27. Nixon and Reagan: progressive badasses?

for negotiating the SALT and START treaties, respectively?

[George II]

40. And the US doesn't have to destroy a single one of our nuclear weapons because of this deal.

[mefoolonhill]

31. Progressive?

Obama's legacy is going to be destroyed by his position on TPP. That godawful piece of legislation is going to haunt him (and the whole country) for generations.

[arely staircase]

37. He will be r e membered for: gay rights, Healthcare and Iran Nuke deal

He has secured a place among the great presidents.

[Cha]

36. Barack Obama is officially one of the most consequential presidents in American history

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/26/8849925/obama-obamacare-history-presidents

Mahalo arely!

[arely staircase]

38. Remember when a violent drunk called him a POSUCS nt

[Cha]

43. Who could forget.. "Trojan Horse" anyone?

[stevenleser]

50. And then he expressed shock when I said he was a hypocrite for complaining about some things

said about folks he likes http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6924598

[Spitfire of ATJ]

55. Obama got elected to stop the neocon agenda and end the war in Iraq....

He was also elected to mend our foreign relations.

The economy crashed just before the election and McCain's first reaction was to say, "The fundamentals of the economy are sound."

Heath care, supreme court appointments, gay rights, stem cell research, saving the auto industry, solar panels on the roof.

All of that was a bonus.

[Marr]

57. He's been good on foreign policy. He's also coddled big banks and the 1% on economic issues.

Obama is hardly any sort of 'progressive' hero.

[arely staircase]

58. Hero, no. Progressive badass? YES. Nt