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Wed Jul 22, 2015, 12:57 PM

Some steps to cleaning up police problems:

1. Police must live in the towns and cities they patrol. If they aren't patrolling their home communities aren't they really patrolling as an outside occupying force, almost as mercinaries?

2. Return all military hardware to the military: no modified tanks, armored personnel carriers, grenade launchers, assault rifles etc.

3. Demilitarize all uniforms. No military type medals, no parachute pants, no military helmets, no combat boots or jumper boots etc.

4. As bad as it sounds: no recruitment of ex-military straight out of service without a several year cooling down period unless the candidate has at least a MP/SP background.

5. Tamper proof cameras with audio on all police and police vehicles.

6. Establishment of an outside board to review all police shootings and all police complaints. The police cannot police themselves without oversight.

7. Establishment real police academies with state guidelines outside the control of local police forces.

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Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply Some steps to cleaning up police problems: (Original post)
marble falls Jul 2015 OP
tymorial Jul 2015 #1
kentuck Jul 2015 #4
marble falls Jul 2015 #11
Glassunion Jul 2015 #13
Hoyt Jul 2015 #2
Telcontar Jul 2015 #3
Hoyt Jul 2015 #8
Telcontar Jul 2015 #9
Hoyt Jul 2015 #12
yurbud Jul 2015 #5
yurbud Jul 2015 #6
yurbud Jul 2015 #7
yurbud Jul 2015 #10
gvstn Jul 2015 #14
CK_John Jul 2015 #15
Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #16
Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #17
marble falls Jul 2015 #18
madville Jul 2015 #20
DirkGently Jul 2015 #19

Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:15 PM

1. Some of this is ridiculous.

1. Many cities have a cost of living substantially higher than the salary of a patrol person. Further, you would be hard pressed to staff a precinct in a district which has a general distrust of the police for some of the reasons you cite. Beyond that there are educational requirements which would be a challenge for many of these areas due to poverty and lack of sufficient education. I have worked in one such area for 15 years.

2 and 3. I'm fine with the tank but tactical units need the things you want to get rid. Do you suggest that SWAT Teams and tactical units go in unarmed? They are transported in armored vehicles because the vehicles contain the equipment they need and that includes assault rifles and helmets. Your average police officer on patrol will never use an assault weapon... hell they rarely if ever fire their gun. This generalized condemnation of the police has got to stop. It is moral superiority emotionalism derived bs.

4. You do realize that many in the military never see combat correct?

5. Cameras are fine. I'm actually okay with body cameras and car cameras but realize, things break. It doesn't mean they were always tampered with.

6. You do realize that many cities already have this.

7. This too is fine though most states have this already.

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Response to tymorial (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:22 PM

4. It is my understanding...

that many cities are looking for ex-military policemen who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan? They bring a war mentality to every police force they enter, in my opinion.

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Response to tymorial (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:38 PM

11. None of it is rediculous.

1. Then pay has be able to make it possible to live in jurisdiction. Austin has 80% of its cops living outside Austin. That is unacceptable, period. If McDonald's employees can afford to live in Austin, the cops can too. Using examples of New York or Chicago or LA are extremes. And there are common sense ways to moderate the high costs of those extreme examples.

2/3. How often do SWAT teams get deployed, vs. the times that they are justified? They just plain do not need assault rifles, combat mufti - period. Yes, I know the average cop never uses an assault rifle, why are they in so many cop cars? Your point supports mine: they are not needed.

4. I am not just addressing combat damage, I am talking about "them vs us" attitudes developed by military personnel required for military cohesion that works against the public in civilian policing.

5. Things get broken, they generally just don't break. I'll settle for the performance equivalent of the devices worn by combat troops.

6. Some may, but most don't.

7. Some may, but most don't. A lot of states have no regulations regarding local policing standards.



A lot of police apologists need to remove their rosie lenses, people are dying out there and nobody's doing anything more than wringing hands and giving out free passes to police. Its time to do something substantive about it. Policing has to be more than a well paying job with a sweet retirement package and become more of a continuingly educated calling.

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Response to tymorial (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 02:09 PM

13. 2 & 3

"Generalized condemnation of the Police"

Perhaps the better suggestion would be why do the police need to drag all that wicked military equipment out for every little search, arrest warrant, or junkie's bad tips?

Hedgehogs... They are illegal in my state (the only one BTW). Why would they need armored vehicles, assault rifles, and whatnot to serve a warrant on someone illegally breeding hedgehogs?

How about if you violate city code for not having natural gas service? You know, cause you can't afford the bill. Should the county Tactical Unit swoop in, raid your house and shoot your dog?

These are not anecdotal incidents. Why has there been a 1,500% increase in SWAT team use in the past 20 years? Has there been an increase of tactical situations? In Maryland alone a SWAT team is used about 4.5 times a day. That sure sounds like Maryland is overflowing with tactical situations. However only 6% of the deployments were for tactical situations like barricades, bank robberies, hostage situations, etc... Yet more than 50% were used for misdemeanor and non-serious felonies.

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:16 PM

2. A lot of that would be good. However, until we limit arms yahoos can buy, I

can't see limiting police to handguns. Now, tanks, etc., are just wrong.

I was working in a building back in the 1990s that several hundred police -- in full storm-trooper uniforms, military vehicles, etc. -- stormed when a gun nut killed like 9 people. One steroid jawed policeman pointed a gun toward me and yelled at me to get out of the building. I didn't because there where other people still there, but that kind of crap didn't help the situation.

I do think hiring x-military can be a problem. This is not a war zone. Nowadays, the military attracts a lot of people who aren't into it for "serving" the country. I don't think that makes a good policeman in many cases. A really comprehensive mental assessment should be required, periodically.

Definitely agree with cameras on officers, and as many public places as possible.

With all that said, being a policeperson is a tough job. And it gets tougher the more citizens are armed for more than home defense and hunting, train to kill others, etc.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:21 PM

3. I doubt that

 

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Response to Telcontar (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:28 PM

8. You doubt what? Is there some reason gun fanciers often respond like that?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:31 PM

9. Odd, the rest of my post is gone

 

I was saying I doubt that you could bar former military personnel from being police. I don't see that as Constitutional

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Response to Telcontar (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:41 PM

12. I did not say bar them. I said to be wary.

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:24 PM

5. do you mean cargo pants? If any police force is wearing parachute pants...

Parachute pants:

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:25 PM

6. how about a personality test on entrance and periodic background checks AFTER hiring

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:26 PM

7. someone suggested revocable national licensing for cops, so when an abusive cop is fired...

he can't do the lemon dance to another police force.

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:37 PM

10. a very dangerous idea: have black "secret shoppers," undercover

who intentionally commit minor traffic infractions around the cops to record how they react.

Their word (sadly) would have more weight than a regular citizen and make bad cops just paranoid enough to be careful.

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 02:23 PM

14. Steroid testing.

I've seen plenty of good cops and plenty of bad cops. I'd go with steroid testing to try to get rid of the ones that try to be any thing other than a helping person. That is what we hire them to be.

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:57 PM

15. There are 12,000 separate police jurisdictions from village, towns, townships, counties,

states and feds.

How would you enforce these dictum's, we are a republic, and understanding the process is important.

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 04:54 PM

16. I know that a law or rule requiring

a police officer to live in the town where they work was found unconstitutional in a Minnesota case.

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 06:44 PM

17. I'm not normally a big proponent of affirmative action

but I think there is a strong case to be made for using affirmative action to hire more black cops when blacks are underrepresented in the police when compared to in the local population.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 06:51 PM

18. Absoposilutely. Representation is important to breaking racially biased law enforcement by...

diluting the us VS them siege mentality of a white out of town cop policing a neighborhood he might feel "out numbered" in.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 07:42 PM

20. Look at that NYPD beating posted today

All 4 of the officers looked like minorities.

3 of the 6 Baltimore officers charged for the death there are black.

In the Sandra Bland arrest, the backup cop is a black female, instantly backing up the white cops story and even pointing out evidence of why his story is valid, she did everything but high-five him.

I've had black cops tell me they straight up don't like most black people, maybe they are part of the 7% of black people that vote Republican.

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Response to marble falls (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 07:18 PM

19. 8. No more "no-knock warrants" without MAJOR cause.

I don't think we're going to get rid of S.W.A.T. type weapons and tactics entirely. One reminder about bullet-proof vest-wearing bank robbers with AK-47s will nix that. But, wow, yes, have they ever gone overboard with the APCs and heavy weapons and over-the-top entries.

The paramilitary approach has become standard. An infant was badly burned recently when cops announced their presence by flinging "flash-bang" grenades through the windows before bursting in with weapons drawn. No drugs were found. "Wrong house."

Oops. And it's not that uncommon. An anonymous tip can lead to a full-on action-movie assault, complete with explosions and guns to foreheads. If the residents get scared of black-garbed attackers breaking in and hesitate or resist, they are shot to death immediately.

The Constitution requires protection against unreasonable search and seizure. "No-knock warrants" began during one of the country's anti-drug freakouts, and were supposed to keep dealers from flushing all of the evidence before the police could enter, and to provide some extra protection from heavily armed criminals.

It's become just the way it's done. People and pets are shot when offering no threat; dangerous flash-bangs can cripple or kill. All so the police aren't inconvenienced by some flushed drugs or the smallest possibility of resistance.

If there isn't some kind of solid evidence that a suspect is armed and resistant, the police can knock and announce themselves. They can wait a short period of time to be admitted to the premises. They can refrain from throwing bombs through the windows.

They can find out if they're even at the right freaking house.

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