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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:06 PM Aug 2015

Protest 101: Raise the visibility of your group and it's goals - BLM's netroots and seattle are wins

You may not like how they protested or whom they protested, but their actions are successful by at least one major criteria of protesting.

They have raised the visibility of Black Lives Matter and thus its goals. And by that important criteria, they did it right and were successful.

We're probably going to be talking about BLM and what to do about protecting the lives of African Americans for the rest of the 2016 election season.

And that is as it should be.

108 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Protest 101: Raise the visibility of your group and it's goals - BLM's netroots and seattle are wins (Original Post) stevenleser Aug 2015 OP
Lol yup worked out great for the weatherman Egnever Aug 2015 #1
You're conflating this with a group that discredited themselves with bombings and jailbreaks? stevenleser Aug 2015 #5
Oh so you have some imaginary line where bad behavior become unaceptable Egnever Aug 2015 #13
Imaginary line? stevenleser Aug 2015 #14
Haha yea looks real similar Egnever Aug 2015 #17
Yeah, you can imagine you have a point. But you don't. nt stevenleser Aug 2015 #24
Says the guy trying to equate the Seattle disruption to Ghandi Egnever Aug 2015 #26
I missed the part where Gandhi yanked the microphone away from a icymist Aug 2015 #64
Do you know how many people lost family in the Holocaust? Gravitycollapse Aug 2015 #65
I feel sorry for you if you can't see the difference. icymist Aug 2015 #66
Indeed... PoutrageFatigue Aug 2015 #89
You do know that Gandhi was very racist right? NobodyHere Aug 2015 #94
You do know you are overanalyzing this, right? nt stevenleser Aug 2015 #96
there was an OP comparing them to rioters and bomb throwers yesterday. unhinged bullshit.... bettyellen Aug 2015 #84
O Malley has come out with specific policies- Sanders added a page to his website! Win- Win! bettyellen Aug 2015 #2
Yup. So many DUers say they are doing it wrong. They are exceeding their best possible hopes so far stevenleser Aug 2015 #8
Are you protesting on Fox propaganda aspirant Aug 2015 #37
The disruptors are essentially anti-Democratic party activists brentspeak Aug 2015 #3
The disruptors are people who put racial issues front and center -- pnwmom Aug 2015 #102
You forgot the part where they cast doubt on their organization Hydra Aug 2015 #4
Every protest group has folks who think they did that. It doesn't matter. And more to the point all stevenleser Aug 2015 #6
No, that's the thing Hydra Aug 2015 #11
Yeah, and several people that saw that horrible display may think twice. RiffRandell Aug 2015 #58
It did more harm than good seveneyes Aug 2015 #7
Not if every major candidate for the Democratic nomination is rushing to address their issues. stevenleser Aug 2015 #9
Clinton is addressing their issues? Hydra Aug 2015 #12
Or maybe leser considers Hillary to be just a minor candidate brentspeak Aug 2015 #15
Seeing is believing. stevenleser Aug 2015 #16
That was two or so weeks ago at least Egnever Aug 2015 #19
oh for pete's sake! Are you bickering over which candidate addressed the riversedge Aug 2015 #32
Nope Egnever Aug 2015 #36
Well, I think it might have as the Netroots incident with Bernie riversedge Aug 2015 #41
is this the one where she says "all lives matter?" notadmblnd Aug 2015 #34
I'm still wondering why the president and his AG cwydro Aug 2015 #103
What they did was wrong no matter how you slice it or make 2nd grade excuses for it like Jetboy Aug 2015 #10
I think that affinity and popularity is more important than simple visibility. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2015 #18
Could have done that to a Republican. aikoaiko Aug 2015 #20
Can't help but agree AuntPatsy Aug 2015 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Aug 2015 #21
What loss of credibility? All major Democratic candidates are busy rolling out plans to address them stevenleser Aug 2015 #23
Will it be enough to please these zealots romanic Aug 2015 #25
I imiagine they're also planning some extra security to greet them... NaturalHigh Aug 2015 #28
And yet, even after Sanders TM99 Aug 2015 #30
Give them credit for one thing - they created a lot of sympathy for Sanders. NaturalHigh Aug 2015 #27
The topic of income inequality was literally never discussed by any of bullwinkle428 Aug 2015 #29
k&r Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #31
PETA gets lots of attention as well tkmorris Aug 2015 #33
BLM is alienating a lot of people who are their natural allies. You could call that I win, I suppose Comrade Grumpy Aug 2015 #35
Well...it appears the tactics are working: Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #43
think of how much they could elevate their cause by terrorizing a Clinton event Doctor_J Aug 2015 #38
Yep. Raised BLM's Visibility: They allowed Co-Option as an Uncontrolled Organization. nt TheBlackAdder Aug 2015 #39
Who knew that on DU, we'd be hearing that protest is BAD!!! MADem Aug 2015 #40
Good Point RobertEarl Aug 2015 #50
Those protesters do not care about putting their "best hope" on a politician. MADem Aug 2015 #56
Great post. And, btw.... OneGrassRoot Aug 2015 #68
Thanks... MADem Aug 2015 #73
Ooops, sorry about the emoticon snafu... OneGrassRoot Aug 2015 #74
Unfortunately the group and its goals... AOR Aug 2015 #42
I'm sure they'll raise the profile even more when they shut down a Hillary speech and drive her Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #44
They'll disrupt her sooner or later Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #45
It will be interesting to see how many people are still in favor of these sorts of antics, then. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #47
Welll...their tactics are working: Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #48
I suspect they could have gotten the exact same result and still let him give his speech. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #57
all of a sudden OWS supporters just hate people protesting, and that is interesting... bettyellen Aug 2015 #83
I don't know. I dont have the list of who is on what team, for starts. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #86
yeah, this weekend was not the best sort of protest. But the response here just made it worse. bettyellen Aug 2015 #87
Twitter has no security whatchamacallit Aug 2015 #70
We would hear about it on DU until the cows come home. RiffRandell Aug 2015 #60
Odd indeed. +1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Aug 2015 #90
Yup. Their disruption led to Bernie’s explicit platform on racial justice. PeaceNikki Aug 2015 #46
thanks for posting reorg Aug 2015 #105
They raised the visibility of moondust Aug 2015 #49
This is the only goal of militant action. joshcryer Aug 2015 #51
It's time to say goodbye ... Trajan Aug 2015 #52
Nope. Fail 2pooped2pop Aug 2015 #53
You nailed it! loyalsister Aug 2015 #54
If antagonizing isn't the purpose then there would be an attempt at dialog. RichVRichV Aug 2015 #61
Do you also consider Westboro Baptist Church's protests to be wins? (n/t) Jim Lane Aug 2015 #55
Good ol' ends justifying the means. RichVRichV Aug 2015 #59
Shouldn't you be doing more of your cutting edge Journalism like telling us what Whoopi thinks? Katashi_itto Aug 2015 #62
You think posting at DU is journalism? No wonder you are so mistaken about so many things. nt stevenleser Aug 2015 #72
It's the closest to journalism you will ever come. After all your the one Katashi_itto Aug 2015 #97
That's you're stevenleser Aug 2015 #98
Lol, spelling corrections? That's the response? Someone is desperate. Katashi_itto Aug 2015 #99
Don't worry eventually Fox will pick you up for that prized Monday Morning 2am slot. Katashi_itto Aug 2015 #100
We wouldn't be talking about BLM otherwise 4now Aug 2015 #63
IMO,helps a groups visibility to spell out the full name please., Black Lives Matter. Sunlei Aug 2015 #67
Agree with every word. nt. NCTraveler Aug 2015 #69
I love it when centrists "let their freak flag fly" whatchamacallit Aug 2015 #71
I wonder if he'll be equally as giddy... Oilwellian Aug 2015 #78
Demanding that a Jew who lost most of his paternal family to the gas chambers and execution squads cali Aug 2015 #75
I'll wager you hear nothing but crickets... truebrit71 Aug 2015 #92
oh, I know. it takes a bit of courage and decency to cali Aug 2015 #95
Hitching your wagon to fundy republican Palin supporters now? HooptieWagon Aug 2015 #76
Well he does go on Faux Spews alot... truebrit71 Aug 2015 #93
They acted like petulant children mythology Aug 2015 #77
because OWS sitting in a park was sooooo mature, LOL. Listen to yourself. The patriarchal attitude bettyellen Aug 2015 #82
Which BLM member? The embezzler or the Palin activist? Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #79
People are talking about it. kiva Aug 2015 #80
You're right, we will be talking about BLM in the election season ... JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2015 #81
No doubt BLM is/will be as successful as OWS, it is a social movement brought about by Rex Aug 2015 #85
"White Supremacist Liberals" truebrit71 Aug 2015 #88
Precisely. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #106
After reading hundreds of posts all over the Internet, I think my reaction is the prevalent one: Vinca Aug 2015 #91
Yes, now that I've seen them I find out that I don't like them and Peregrine Took Aug 2015 #101
Leaning on 20 years experience as a professional activist, I disagree. Chan790 Aug 2015 #104
Great points, steven. They've succeeded by any definition. R B Garr Aug 2015 #107
kick stevenleser Aug 2015 #108
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
5. You're conflating this with a group that discredited themselves with bombings and jailbreaks?
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:18 PM
Aug 2015

Gandhi would smile at the obvious difference you are missing.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
13. Oh so you have some imaginary line where bad behavior become unaceptable
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:27 PM
Aug 2015

Maybe you could draw us all a chart and show us where that line is. The one crossed with Bernie was a pretty clear one for me. The backlash is pretty obvious but if you want to pretend it was great exposure more power to you.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
17. Haha yea looks real similar
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:36 PM
Aug 2015






Bernie does a great job of channeling Ghandi the protesters not so much.

icymist

(15,888 posts)
64. I missed the part where Gandhi yanked the microphone away from a
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 03:58 AM
Aug 2015

Jewish speaker who lost a huge chunk of his family in the Holocaust, yelling that everyone in the audience were all liberal white supremacists. All this while screaming less than a foot away from a 73 year old man while threatening to shut down the event unless he got his way. Nope... I missed that about Gandhi.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
65. Do you know how many people lost family in the Holocaust?
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:02 AM
Aug 2015

I fail to see the faintest relevance between his family history or his age and the claims of the protesters.

You're grasping at straws.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
84. there was an OP comparing them to rioters and bomb throwers yesterday. unhinged bullshit....
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:17 PM
Aug 2015

and every bit of it from people who adored OWS. Funny how that works, huh?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
2. O Malley has come out with specific policies- Sanders added a page to his website! Win- Win!
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:13 PM
Aug 2015

Yes somehow too many here think they should be like OWS. LOL.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
8. Yup. So many DUers say they are doing it wrong. They are exceeding their best possible hopes so far
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:21 PM
Aug 2015

Every group that protests hopes they will be this successful.

brentspeak

(18,290 posts)
3. The disruptors are essentially anti-Democratic party activists
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:13 PM
Aug 2015

Interesting that you support their disruption.

pnwmom

(109,177 posts)
102. The disruptors are people who put racial issues front and center --
Wed Aug 12, 2015, 06:56 AM
Aug 2015

they don't really care about party politics, IMO.

And who are we to say what's most important in their lives?

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
4. You forgot the part where they cast doubt on their organization
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:17 PM
Aug 2015

And now they are going to have to walk it back or be seen as irrelevant.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
6. Every protest group has folks who think they did that. It doesn't matter. And more to the point all
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:20 PM
Aug 2015

the candidates are now tripping over themselves to address BLM's issues.

Your attempt at a point completely falls apart there.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
11. No, that's the thing
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:25 PM
Aug 2015

We were all working on the issue before this, and now that they've tripped up, we'll work on it again as an all inclusive thing. If anything, they tried to foul the social justice movement up by adding dangerous elements to the mix.

Unless BLM pulls a 180, no one will remember they existed in a few months.

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
58. Yeah, and several people that saw that horrible display may think twice.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 02:57 AM
Aug 2015

Or characterize it into I don't even know what; I can think of some words like obnoxious, disrespectful, hurting the DEM cause which didn't bother them in the least.

If you think ANY Repub candidates give a fuck about AA you are dreaming.

I wonder how many times if at all this woman has voted in her life.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
9. Not if every major candidate for the Democratic nomination is rushing to address their issues.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:22 PM
Aug 2015

It doesn't get much better than that.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
19. That was two or so weeks ago at least
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:40 PM
Aug 2015

You are now going to pretend this is a response to the Bernie incident?

riversedge

(71,236 posts)
32. oh for pete's sake! Are you bickering over which candidate addressed the
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:14 PM
Aug 2015

issue first. Such nonsense. The point as the OP points out--our Dem candidates are speaking of the important issues now.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
36. Nope
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:23 PM
Aug 2015

I am pointing out that the video he posted had nothing to do with what happened with Bernie. He is trying to pretend the clusterfuck in Seattle was a good thing because now all the candidates are rushing to adress it and offers as proof a video from at least two weeks before it happened.

riversedge

(71,236 posts)
41. Well, I think it might have as the Netroots incident with Bernie
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:50 PM
Aug 2015

and O"M happened prior to the U-tube Hillary video that steve.. posted. I forget the date when Hillary made that comment that All lives matter in a black church but since she has keyed in--evolved to BLM. So I do think the protesters have educated our Dem candidates and now are all talking about BLM. (not sure what Webb and Chafe (sp) are doing.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
34. is this the one where she says "all lives matter?"
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:19 PM
Aug 2015

I can't watch it right now, I'm steaming the Senator at his even in Portland

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
103. I'm still wondering why the president and his AG
Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:24 AM
Aug 2015

haven't addressed these issues.

Funny how they seem to want a white person to fix things.

Jetboy

(792 posts)
10. What they did was wrong no matter how you slice it or make 2nd grade excuses for it like
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:24 PM
Aug 2015

'other groups did such and such'. It's best to do the right thing, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. They also turned a lot of people off on the movement.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
18. I think that affinity and popularity is more important than simple visibility.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:39 PM
Aug 2015

The Kardashians have visibility.

aikoaiko

(34,195 posts)
20. Could have done that to a Republican.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:40 PM
Aug 2015

Unfortunately, we're not talking about protecting black lives, we're talking about protecting Bernie from BLM.

Response to stevenleser (Original post)

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
23. What loss of credibility? All major Democratic candidates are busy rolling out plans to address them
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:00 PM
Aug 2015

that doesn't sound like a loss of credibility to me.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
28. I imiagine they're also planning some extra security to greet them...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:10 PM
Aug 2015

at the next event they try to hijack.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
30. And yet, even after Sanders
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:12 PM
Aug 2015

has been addressing BLM issues since July, he was still harassed?

Go read their manifesto Steven. Seriously.

Not all publicity is good publicity.

Name calling. Bullying. Boundary violations. Those are not protesting. And those backfire on groups all the time.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
27. Give them credit for one thing - they created a lot of sympathy for Sanders.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:09 PM
Aug 2015

I'm not even planning to vote for Bernie Sanders, and I feel sympathetic toward his campaign after the yokels insulted him and tried to intimidate him on stage.

bullwinkle428

(20,636 posts)
29. The topic of income inequality was literally never discussed by any of
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:11 PM
Aug 2015

the mainstream media or political figures prior to the OWS movement. Now, it's become practically a requirement, at least as far as the Democratic side.

tkmorris

(11,138 posts)
33. PETA gets lots of attention as well
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:15 PM
Aug 2015

I know that the popular, cliched and trite wisdom is that any publicity is good publicity, especially for a cause such as this. It isn't always true however. BLM is seriously running the risk of alienating those most willing to ally with them.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
38. think of how much they could elevate their cause by terrorizing a Clinton event
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:26 PM
Aug 2015

Or a republican event

This op is pretty bizarre, even for you.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
40. Who knew that on DU, we'd be hearing that protest is BAD!!!
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:49 PM
Aug 2015

I didn't see twenty or thirty threads complaining about protest when Code Pink went all over Obama....and I didn't see twenty or thirty threads complaining when Occupy shut down Civil Rights Icon and Congressman John Lewis....

But a quick glance at the board lately tells me that three young adults yelling at a rally is the End Of The World As We Know It, apparently.

And a quick glance at this thread leads me to believe that some DUers are opposed to this time-honored expression of grievance~!!!

I guess it's only OK if it's directed at candidates they don't like, or something.



The more things change...

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
50. Good Point
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:43 AM
Aug 2015

But bad premise.

See, Bernie is Black people's current best hope for the change they deserve.

The protests that you mention were protests against oppressors and other evil bastards.

Given that the deck is stacked against Bernie, and there are thousands of DUers who feel the Bern, and know what we are up against, the reaction to them laying a hand on Bernie and disrupting his speech, is seen as a ridiculous assault.

And now you know.

BLM can salvage their reputation, but I wonder if they have the wisdom to do so.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
56. Those protesters do not care about putting their "best hope" on a politician.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:56 AM
Aug 2015

They weren't coming at their protest from a mainstream BLM perspective--they were representing a more "direct confrontation" line of thought. And they don't give a crap about politicians. https://outsideagitators206.org/who-we-are/


They want focus on the issues they deem important. They're not going to ask nicely. They just don't care what you, me, or politicians think.

And so, they are "acting up." They are "Code Pink-ing." They are "Occupy-ing." They are being ... outrageous. You know, that thing that's enshrined in our national fabric--that "protest" thing. It's sometimes messy. Sometimes uncomfortable.

And judging by the number of angry threads about these ladies with their bad reputations, they hit a soft spot at the center of their target. From THEIR perspective, their effort was a success.

If they didn't matter, and if their anger didn't resonate, this would be two or three threads about this, tops, and everyone would be on to the Next Big Thing--instead, Sanders left that rally, went to a fundraiser, and focused on the issues of concern to those young women everyone's disparaging here. Then he repeated himself at his big speech later that evening.

So....who "wins?" DU, or those protesters?




http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/black-lives-matter-protesters-shut-down-bernie-sanders-rally/
“When we stand together, when black and white stand together, when gay and straight stand together, when women and men stand together,” Sanders told the cheering crowd, which paid $200 to $1,000 to get in, “when we stand together, there is nothing, nothing, that we cannot accomplish.”

In a written statement addressing the Westlake protest, Sanders said he was “disappointed that two people disrupted a rally attended by thousands … I was especially disappointed because on criminal-justice reform and the need to fight racism there is no other candidate for president who will fight harder than me.”

In a news release posted on social media, local Black Lives Matter activists said they were holding Sanders and other white progressives accountable for failing to support their movement.

Citing the anniversary of Brown’s death, they said, “We honor black lives by doing the unthinkable, the unapologetic, and the unrespectable.”

Activists with the movement have shut down Seattle streets and local events before, arguing such direct action is needed to shake people out of complacency over the deaths of black men and women at the hands of police. In December, they disrupted a Christmas tree-lighting ceremony at Westlake.

Some Sanders supporters were chagrined at the way his speech was cut off and said the protesters hurt their own cause.


They aren't worried about THEIR reputation, they won't be cowed by finger wagging or tsk-tsking--they know that the politicians who don't address their issues aren't going to get their votes. And they'll keep pointing it out. They don't want to be talked at, or down to, or told that they are "unwise" with "bad reputations"--they want action, not platitudes. Frankly, the salvaging needs to happen on the politicians' side--they need to salvage their chance at securing African American votes. Without an enthused participation from the minority community, these politicians vying for the Dem nomination can't win.

So -- who needs "wisdom" here?

Bravenak tried to tell people this was coming. No one wanted to hear her. It's not going to go away, either, just because a bunch of people on DU are OUTRAGED at the NERVE of these PEOPLE!

It's going to be an interesting campaign season.

OneGrassRoot

(23,099 posts)
68. Great post. And, btw....
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:48 AM
Aug 2015

you're right about my OP in GD; it probably should be in GDP.

I haven't engaged at DU in a long time and that OP morphed and probably did belong more in GDP. I trust the mods will do what's best, but I wanted to acknowledge your comment.



MADem

(135,425 posts)
73. Thanks...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:03 AM
Aug 2015

I think the hosts (we don't have mods anymore--that's part of the reason why there's some bad behavior during this primary season) have abdicated. Can't say as I blame them; they should probably get paid--combat pay, too--for managing this mess.

OneGrassRoot

(23,099 posts)
74. Ooops, sorry about the emoticon snafu...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:08 AM
Aug 2015

and, yes, I think there should be paid positions here. That's why I want create a space that is member- and worker-owned (not competing with DU though). So tired of site owners making lots of money off of others' content and hard work (like HuffPo).

 

AOR

(692 posts)
42. Unfortunately the group and its goals...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:24 AM
Aug 2015

are hardly clear. They could be... but so far there is no mention of the complicity of the Black capitalist ruling class and their mouthpieces, the Black political leadership class, and the utter and complete failure to do anything about Black unemployment, urban poverty, exploitation, police brutality, ect...in poor AA communities. What are your views on capitalist social relations and their connection with institutionalized racism and the devastating effects on poor AA communities stevenleser ? Take your time and think it through with class analysis and then form a reply on how Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and the neoliberal policies of the currently constructed Democratic Party line up with any actual demands being made by Black Lives Matter activists.

Critiquing Bernie Sanders and the possible effectiveness of reform is one thing if one is an actual leftist and believes the possibility of capitalist reforms are whistling past the graveyard. Critiquing and bashing Bernie Sanders and thinking that more corporate Democrats, neoliberal policy, and more rightward drift of the Democratic Party is the answer is quite another.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
44. I'm sure they'll raise the profile even more when they shut down a Hillary speech and drive her
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:29 AM
Aug 2015

from the stage, then. right?

I mean. Makes sense.

Oh, wait, that'll never happen. Odd.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
45. They'll disrupt her sooner or later
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:31 AM
Aug 2015

Keep in mind Bernie is doing more public events at the moment in an effort to raise his profile. Also, Hillary has Secret Service protection. No way they could have gotten that close to her.

But I think they will disrupt one of her events in the near future.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
57. I suspect they could have gotten the exact same result and still let him give his speech.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 02:42 AM
Aug 2015

But, again, if these tactics are so great, I guess we'll see how popular they are if they're used against other candidates.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
86. I don't know. I dont have the list of who is on what team, for starts.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:08 PM
Aug 2015

Personally, I was never a big OWS fan, I was one of those old-fashioned weenies who thought that the idea of a movement deliberately avoiding defined "goals", for one, was doomed to irrelevancy.

But speaking of old-fashioned, I guess I feel that if some politician or candidate is scheduled to give a speech, the nominally decent thing to do is let them have their time at the microphone instead of bullying them off the stage. I would even extend that to Republicans. Like, I couldn't stand Dubya, but I didn't think heckling him or shutting him down was appropriate, much less terribly productive, either.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
87. yeah, this weekend was not the best sort of protest. But the response here just made it worse.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:27 PM
Aug 2015

Time to thicken the skin and get proactive about this shit, no doubt. Smarter than arguing the local NAACP is wrong, anyway.
And yep, pretty much everyone who hates BLM was a huge fan of OWS, so go figure that out.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
105. thanks for posting
Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:16 AM
Aug 2015

this link which also includes the video of the 'disruption'.

Finally, we can see what this dangerous, dangerous and dangerously impolite young woman actually said:

moondust

(20,176 posts)
49. They raised the visibility of
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:35 AM
Aug 2015

how easy it is to hijack leaderless movements and have scores of people like yourself fall for it.

joshcryer

(62,300 posts)
51. This is the only goal of militant action.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:44 AM
Aug 2015

The single and only goal and it's all it can do. This is why while I don't advocate militant direct action I don't outright condemn it nor do I act as if it somehow happens in a vacuum.

What I feel is that people are upset about Sanders being targeted for all the wrong reasons. He's being targeted because he's accessible, because he's out there, because he's drawing huge crowds. And people upset that they're not attacking Republicans, that wouldn't be very newsworthy.

And to people insulting you for this OP, while I think it's somewhat off base (they likely had been working on that comprehensive platform for awhile now, likely before even the first BLM protest; Sanders' campaign sees that Clinton gets automatic cred due to Bill's dealings with AA), the protest in Seattle at most got them to release the platform sooner rather than later.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
53. Nope. Fail
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:03 AM
Aug 2015

Could have accomplished those goals by going after the offenders rather than the defenders. But for some strange reason they chose Bernie. Those 3 people....

chose to go after the only one who would stand up for them.

Nope, not Protest 101

fail

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
54. You nailed it!
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:30 AM
Aug 2015

People seem to think that the motivation behind disruption is to antagonize.

That is not necessarily so. I am thinking that people need to rethink that and consider the possibility that the goal is to get people to listen to them.
It's not about Bernie or Democrats, it's about demanding that attention be paid to BLM. Approaching Bernie is the obvious choice if they want someone to listen. I expect there was some hope somewhere that the audience would join them in their quest to have their issues addressed.

RichVRichV

(885 posts)
61. If antagonizing isn't the purpose then there would be an attempt at dialog.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 03:05 AM
Aug 2015

Bernie hasn't been closed to anyone. BLM could very easily reach out to him. He's been very receptive to their complaints.

RichVRichV

(885 posts)
59. Good ol' ends justifying the means.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 03:00 AM
Aug 2015

All's fair as long as you win.


Protest 101 part 2 - Direct your protests at those suppressing you, not those that already support you.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
97. It's the closest to journalism you will ever come. After all your the one
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 07:59 PM
Aug 2015

spinning a Radical Christian, Sarah Palin Supporter and another who is an embezzler as BLMers.

Yep your credible.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
100. Don't worry eventually Fox will pick you up for that prized Monday Morning 2am slot.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 08:04 PM
Aug 2015

You can talk Whoopi and other edgy issues.

4now

(1,596 posts)
63. We wouldn't be talking about BLM otherwise
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 03:48 AM
Aug 2015

If you don't want your event disrupted then spring for some security.
You can't run for POTUS on the cheap.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
67. IMO,helps a groups visibility to spell out the full name please., Black Lives Matter.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:04 AM
Aug 2015

of course discussion within the group, use of BLM is fine

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
71. I love it when centrists "let their freak flag fly"
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:57 AM
Aug 2015

and talk up radical activism (only when it helps Hillary of course).

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
78. I wonder if he'll be equally as giddy...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:29 AM
Aug 2015

when liberal Democrats decide to stay home on election day, if Hillary is the nominee? This OP is certainly proof that the conservative Dems are not our ally.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
75. Demanding that a Jew who lost most of his paternal family to the gas chambers and execution squads
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:00 AM
Aug 2015

of the Nazis, bow down, grovel and publicly apologize for unspecified actions against poc, is not legitimate protest. Every decent person is any hue has an obligation to, at the very least, recognize that. It's particularly noxious coming from a Christian fundamentalist. The name of their ugly protest was "bow down bernie". Please explain how you can support this, and how you can support Ms Johnson and her friends screaming, shoving, refusing to shake bernie's hand, refusing to cede the stage after 20 minutes and forcing an end to an event on social security and Medicare that people spent months working on. Please explain why stating that white liberals are worse racists than white conservatives.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
77. They acted like petulant children
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:19 AM
Aug 2015

If this is their style of protest, they won't further their goals in the long term because acting like like an asshole doesn't exactly make people want to listen to you.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
82. because OWS sitting in a park was sooooo mature, LOL. Listen to yourself. The patriarchal attitude
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:13 PM
Aug 2015

kiva

(4,373 posts)
80. People are talking about it.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:43 AM
Aug 2015

They're also talking about bubble nails, William Shatner's mosaic of Leonard Nimoy, Kylie Jenner's new car, and Prince Harry's trip to Africa to help fight poaching - and for a lot of people, the news about what BLM did fits into the same category of random facts that show up on their Facebook feed and are gone tomorrow.

For people who are more politically savvy, I don't see a positive side for BLM. The people who don't support Sanders see it primarily as a win for their side; his supporters see it as an unfair, possibly politically motivated, attack - neither of which increased respect for BLM. Accusations that Sanders and O'Malley are not being "humble enough" and hashtags like #bowdownbernie have nothing to do with saving lives, black or other...and there is the flaw. People aren't talking about police brutality or the anniversary of Michael Brown's death, they are talking about BLM's tactics.

The big win seems to be that Sanders added a platform on combating racial inequality to his website, which would be impressive if there was any evidence that he ever opposed racial equality...but he didn't, so it's sort of like saying "all Democratic candidates breath air" - hardly unexpected. The last time a Democratic candidate supporting civil rights was considered to be surprising was in 1948 when Hubert Humphrey inadvertently helped create the Dixiecrats.

As long as we're prognosticating, I'll guess that we'll be spending the next year talking about the economy, climate change, immigration, and civil rights, so pretty much the same things we would be talking about without this encounter.


JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,544 posts)
81. You're right, we will be talking about BLM in the election season ...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:00 PM
Aug 2015

... but mostly about how to keep them off the stage when Democratic candidates are speaking.

I don't know if they advanced the visibility of BLM goals, but they certainly scored some ego points.



 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
85. No doubt BLM is/will be as successful as OWS, it is a social movement brought about by
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:32 PM
Aug 2015

gross inequality and dedication to seeing justice served. There will always be rebellious factions that hurt said movements, intentionally or unintentionally. They all get rating and notice. Good or bad.



 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
106. Precisely.
Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:10 AM
Aug 2015

Any protester that makes a statement like that harms their cause. Slanderous, insulting bullshit has a way of doing that. The cliche' "there's no such thing as bad publicity" is complete nonsense. Call me a "white supremacist," and I'll respond in only one way: "go fuck yourself."

Vinca

(50,469 posts)
91. After reading hundreds of posts all over the Internet, I think my reaction is the prevalent one:
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 02:03 PM
Aug 2015

they alienated me - briefly - from their cause. Now I've decided this is a small group of possibly paid protesters. The cause is good, but someone is taking advantage of it to make Bernie look like a fool. That's what happens when you get the largest crowds and make strong gains in the polls.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
104. Leaning on 20 years experience as a professional activist, I disagree.
Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:09 AM
Aug 2015

I understand why you think that Steven, but really...anything that damages the cause and doesn't first-hand-effect positive change is terminal. This damaged the cause, it achieved nothing. It reduced the BLM movement to something to be hated and ridiculed by the public for their showiness, extremism and conduct. It doesn't work as activism. (They've reduced their important cause to something on the level of PeTA. PeTA, despite what PeTA thinks, has no positive net impact for animal welfare.) It put them as individuals qua unskilled disruptors and agitants ahead of the cause...instead of being about systemic racism and blacks being disproportionately targeted for violence and death by law enforcement, BLM is now, in the public perception, about disrupting political campaigns. If I didn't know explicitly that they were not...I'd think these disruptors were paid RW astroturf for how effectively they have fatally-damaged the BLM cause. This isn't a win...it's probably the end of BLM as an effective movement. Black lives matter...but BLM no longer matters; they just marginalized themselves.

One of the best early lessons I learned in that field is "Shut up and do." If you're running your mouth and your conduct is not having an immediate positive impact for the organization...you're not an activist. You're a distraction and an asshole who reflects poorly on the issue at hand and makes real activists jobs harder because they now have to overcome your shitty conduct to be heard rather than shut-out. So...shut-up and do...stop talking and actually do something that does have a positive net impact. (This is explicitly exclusive of anything involving you talking, hence the "shut up" which is something akin to when your mouth is getting you into trouble, stop talking! Contribute in ways that are about advancing the movement, not your personal aggrandizement.)

I'm external to this...it's not my cause to lead because I believe in deferring to minority voices on causes that effect minorities (Which is to say that I'm aware of my privilege as someone who is perceived as being a straight white upper-class male)...but if it were my cause, I'd be stripping these women of leadership of the Seattle chapter and disavowing their conduct. With activists like that, I don't need an opposition.

R B Garr

(17,183 posts)
107. Great points, steven. They've succeeded by any definition.
Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:12 PM
Aug 2015

Exposure and publicity has resulted in positive action, so they have done well.

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