"Why Istanbul should be called Catstantinople"

[Syzygy321]

That's the title of a big front-page article in WSJ about the historic and ongoing love of alley cats in Istanbul. Apparently this is annage-old thing. Cats are adored there, and its common for residents to put up furry cat-boxes at street corners and cat window seats outside their homes, and lots of peope feed and care for strays... It's part of the city's culture.

(Sorry, no link - it takes a subscription that I don't have.)

Says a local resident: "Istanbul is heaven for cats, and we want it to stay that way."

Just, awww.

[Renew Deal]

1. Actually, it should be called Constantinople and it should be returned to Greece.

With North Cyprus

[MattBaggins]

12. You're joking right?

[Renew Deal]

13. No

[whatthehey]

15. Silly trivia. It was not officially named Constantinople, nor Greek.

And nope it wasn't Byzantium either (this was a fishing village that made way for the new city, and only applied to the empire by historians centuries after it fell in 1453).

The entire millennium long history of the "Byzantine" Empire centered on "Constantinople" was steered by people who called themselves Romans (well, Romeoi really) in a city built and named as Nova Roma. The Eastern Roman empire survived when the Western Roman empire fell and was populated by people who spoke Greek as a lingua franca (pun there) but never considered themselves "Greeks".

Maybe a few centuries after the collapse of western capitalism, which is imminent according to DU, historians will speak of a financial empire ruled from a megalopolis called "the Big Apple" and named "Wallstreet".
'

[tabasco]

31. Whole lotta wrong in that post

Byzantium
Though Istanbul may have been inhabited as early as 3000 BCE, it was not a city until Greek colonists arrived in the area in the 7th Century BCE. These colonists were led by King Byzas and settled there because of the strategic location along the Bosporus Strait. King Byzas named the city Byzantium after himself.
The Roman Empire (330-395 CE)
Following its development by the Greeks, Byzantium became a part of the Roman Empire in the 300s. During this time, the Roman emperor Constantine the Great undertook a construction project to rebuild the entire city. His goal was to make it stand out and give the city monuments similar to those found in Rome. In 330, Constantine declared the city as the capital of the entire Roman Empire and renamed it Constantinople.

http://geography.about.com/od/specificplacesofinterest/a/istanbul.htm

[whatthehey]

42. Sorry I prefer medieval history cites for medieval history

Would you cite Lucretius to answer a question about rainfall in the Andes?

https://books.google.com/books?id=3Vt3AAAAQBAJ&pg=PT29&lpg=PT29&dq=What+did+Constantine+call+his+new+capital&source=bl&ots=tOoerrupCy&sig=VQMn9wsV1_VWAJ4P0Lkkol7oOQI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCGoVChMIqKb8g_a1xwIVBn-SCh0nzAoq#v=onepage&q=What%20did%20Constantine%20call%20his%20new%20capital&f=false

Fishing village. New Rome. Called themselves Romans. all there, from R.H.C. Davis, a well-regarded professor of Medieval History.

[tabasco]

50. LOL! R.H.C. Davis is not a "medieval history cite."

That term would imply an original source, you know, from medieval times. Here's some more links for you, Professor.

Finally in 330 AD it was officially declared the capital of the Roman Empire. Many ceremonies were organized for the occasion, which marked the beginning of a golden age. Although the city was initially called the Second Rome or New Rome, these names were soon forgotten to be replaced by "Byzantium" and in later ages by "Constantinopolis", while the people favored the name "Polis".

http://english.istanbul.gov.tr/Default.aspx?pid=293

The Megarians, under the leadership of Byzas, acted according to a Delphic oracle in choosing the site. They were settled in (today’s Sarayburnu) and the town came to be called Byzantium.

http://www.ibb.gov.tr/sites/ks/en-us/0-exploring-the-city/history/Pages/BeforeConquest.aspx

In 330 AD., the Roman Emperor, Constantine I, proclaimed the ancient city of Byzantium as his capital. The newly rebuilt city subsequently became known as Constantinopolis.

http://www.ibb.gov.tr/sites/ks/en-us/0-exploring-the-city/history/Pages/BeforeConquest.aspx

Istanbul is widely recognized as the name of Turkey's most well known city, but it was not always this way, and even today some confusion over its proper name still exists. The confusion is rooted in the various names the city assumed under the Ottomans in the centuries after their conquest of the city in 1453. Although the Ottomans did not purposely change the city's name, they opted to make "Constantinople" into a more Turkish style name "Konstantiniye" (which loosely translates as "of Constantine&quot , however variations on Konstantiniye soon cropped up.

http://www.sephardicstudies.org/istanbul.html


But you do have that one book by that one professor that was published in 1957.

[Xithras]

19. Shouldn't that be the choice of the people who live there?

Every generation gets to decide for itself what kind of world it wants to live in. The idea that a particular area "should" belong to one group or another simply because it belonged to them hundreds or thousands of years ago is insane. The land belongs to the people who live there.

[Kurska]

41. Turks live there now

They get to decide what to do with it, not greeks whose great great whatever lived there half a millennium ago.

[Sam_Fields]

43. And Italy should be returned to the Romans

[Drahthaardogs]

51. I think most Italians consider the ancient Greeks and Romans their ancestors.

So do many Spaniards.

[LiberalElite]

60. You are missing the point of the OP big time nt

[NightWatcher]

2. Why did they change it?

[Codeine]

7. Nobody's business but the Turks. nt

[NightWatcher]

16. VVVVVVVV These guys didn't get the They Might Be Giants reference

Or did and tried to educate my ass.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. Oh my god.

That song is a classic. (And yes, I know TMBG was covering it, didnt write it originally)

fuckin' boomers, man, totally clueless to everything after Frampton comes alive.

[PasadenaTrudy]

27. Hey..

This Boomer has seen TMBG live many times. Don't generalize us.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. And you guys completely don't get Gen X's snark, either.

...It's done with love!

Anyway, fuck, I'm a Deadhead. I really can't be casting generational asparagus around music.

[PasadenaTrudy]

38. Lol

Deadhead here too. Cheers!

[hifiguy]

29. Gads, I LOVED Tiny Toons

VCR'd it every day while I was at work so I could watch it each night.

[progressoid]

34. I like both!

[trof]

48. The Four Lads. 1953

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WillowTree]

39. Now you made me go pull up my other two favorites of that genre.

Standing on the Corner, also by the Lads

and my all time fave

The Ames Brothers...........The Naughty Lady of Shady Lane

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Oddly it wasn't officially changed until 1930.

The Ottoman's considered themselves the successors of the Roman Empire and retained Constantinople as the official name.

[Agnosticsherbet]

11. In 1453, Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II conquered Constantinople

and killed the people who might disagree.

After that, it was for the Turks to decide what the wanted to call their city.

[Renew Deal]

14. "Their city"

Just because they possess it doesn't make it theirs. It's no different than stealing a car and then claiming to own it.

[LanternWaste]

25. It then begs the question, what is the predicate for justly and legally claiming land?

It then begs the question, what is the fundamental predicate for a nation state to justly and legally claim land?

[geardaddy]

68. Yep

Case in point for New York
Lenapehoking > Nouvelle Angoulêm > Nieuw Amsterdam > New York
(Lenape > French > Dutch > English)

[Agnosticsherbet]

36. Right of Conquest made it their city and their capital, at the time. That has not changed.

In their case possession was 100% of the law.

[Syzygy321]

57. That simplifies everything nicely.

Crimeans, Gazans, and the people
of Mosul are glad to hear it. Though some are gladder than others.

[Agnosticsherbet]

58. We are talking about 1453, and that is simply the way everyting was at that time. R

Right of Conquest was pretty much accepted up to the Geneva Conventions. WWII, because Germany and Japan lost, ended the parctice, for the most part.

Russia has used it to some etent, taking lad after WWIIthat was not theirs.

But when we look deeper into history than WWII, Right of Conquest was accepted everywhere.

[Syzygy321]

59. Embarrassed by my ignorance, I am scrambling

off to raid Wikipedia.

[Warren Stupidity]

45. So we will be vacating our stolen territories when?

[hifiguy]

23. And it's nobody's business but the Turks'!

At least according to They Might Be Giants.

[pansypoo53219]

37. for 'they might be giants'.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Type the title into Google, then click the Google link.

That way you can see the whole article.

I think I want to go there.

[hifiguy]

24. It's a gorgeous, modern 21st century city. Turkish food and hospitality are as good

as any in the world and better than most. And for a history nut like me it was heaven, and I only saw the Aya Sophia, the Blue Mosque and the Topkapi palace, which is worth an entire day in itself.

[Syzygy321]

64. Of course - you are male I assume, hifiguy?

Female friends tell me males in Istanbul have no respect for tourist women: constant ogling, propositioning, etc. Apparently the assumption is that foreign women all want sex, or are toys for male enjoyment and have no right to peace or privacy.

I am sure what you say is equally true. I just want to open your eyes to the fact that you might have a very different stay if you were in the other 50 percent.

[SidDithers]

4. Why did Constantinople get the works?...

That's nobody's business but the Turks.

Sid

[Vogon_Glory]

56. ISTANBUL! n/t

[DawgHouse]

5. Even Old New York was once New Amsterdam.

Why they changed it, I can't say. People just liked it better that way.

[Capt. Obvious]

10. Damn you

You beat me to it.

[closeupready]

18. Old Danzig is now Gdansk. Breslau is now Wroclaw.

When you travel to these places sometimes, you get a sense of why things have names or borders like they do. I mean, you can get the same sense of things from reading about them or watching documentaries, but traveling there is mostly more fun.

[tosh]

6. Google found this for me:

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/87816089?byline=0&portrait=0" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="https://vimeo.com/87816089">Nine Lives - Cats in Istanbul - TEASER</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/charliewuppermann">Charlie Wuppermann</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>



edited to add: Sorry! I don't know how to clean up this post!

[DinahMoeHum]

8. The WSJ link. . .

". . .like being a cow in India. . ."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-istanbul-should-be-called-catstantinople-1439942244

[REP]

17. There are two "native" Turkish cats: the Angora and the Van

The Van is protected; it takes a special permit to remove one from the Van region. They're a bit funny looking but they're great cats; I had a Van when I was a kid.


Van kittens

[hifiguy]

22. My last rescue was a Turkish Van (RIP Butch)

looked just like the kitteh on the right except his characteristic markings were more tan than orangeish; same racccoon tail pattern. Big fella, too, at 15+ pounds. ollowed me around the house like a puppy, talkatve and purry, he was a great cat.

[REP]

54. Ours was a rescue, too

His name was Handsome Dan but he went by Fathead. He was a bad-ass tom; he'd been a street cat before he came to live with us and was still eager to fight with dogs and possums but with humans, he was an enormous, sweet wad of fur. He was a great cat, too. He's been gone nearly 40 years and I still miss him.

[Throd]

26. I have a Van. Great cats. They don't mind water too much.

[hifiguy]

28. Butch was older when I got him.

Supremely easy-going except when he wanted food or attention, when he was insistent but polite. As mellow, low-key a cat as I can imagine. I miss him so much.

[REP]

55. Lucky you!

I pretty much think every cat and every breed has something good going on, but having lived with a Van, they're high on my list.

[hifiguy]

20. I saw a fair number of free-roaming cats (and dogs)

when I toured some of the historical sites (Blue Mosque, Aya Sophia, Topkapi) while in Istanbul a few months ago. Not afraid of people, just vagabond critters.

Amazing city!!

[mainer]

30. Never saw so many free-ranging cats as I did in Istanbul

They're everywhere, and they all seem really tame.

[karmaqueen]

32. I lived in Turkey and Cat's rule!

Ataturk Is going to come back as a Cat.. We never had much contact with cats because I was so allergic as a child. There was no avoiding them in the small town of Sinop Turkey where we went to live for awhile in 1972.. I said some prayers, asked for whoever was in charge of Cats to help me live in unison with my new neighbors & it worked! We fell n love with cats and have had many, many through the last 50 years.. We helped run a spay/neuter place here in the states.. I have 4 here with me now.. All rescues..Cats are wonderful creatures ?

[mahatmakanejeeves]

33. It could only be the A-hed.

Why Istanbul Should Be Called Catstantinople

A-hed

Turkish city can’t quit delighting in felines; ‘like being a cow in India’
By Joe Parkinson
[e-mail]
@joewsj

Updated Aug. 19, 2015 2:15 a.m. ET

ISTANBUL—In this ancient city once ruled by sultans and emperors, the real king is the humble alley cat.

In historic neighborhoods along Istanbul’s Bosporus and Golden Horn waterways, an army of furry-tailed street cats are fed, sheltered and cooed at by an adoring public. Hundreds of fleece-lined houses have been erected at street corners by cat-mad residents. Most are flanked by makeshift feeding stations fashioned from yogurt pots or plastic bottles and overflowing with tasty scraps.

In some districts, ground-floor windowsills are lined with pillows and blankets, offering a cozy place for the discerning kitty to recline. In restaurants and cafes, cats are often part of the furniture, curling up next to dining tables or patiently waiting for leftovers from patrons.
....



Istanbul cat at rest

[KT2000]

40. killer version of Istanbul

[KamaAina]

44. My kind of town!

[JCMach1]

46. Some of my Istanbul Cat Pictures

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/9008613@N06/2312069029/in/album-72157600399787651/" title="cris 245.jpg"><img src="" width="640" height="480" alt="cris 245.jpg"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/9008613@N06/2312878914/in/album-72157600399787651/" title="cris 243.jpg"><img src="" width="640" height="480" alt="cris 243.jpg"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script><a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/9008613@N06/2312069953/in/album-72157600399787651/" title="cris 242.jpg"><img src="" width="640" height="480" alt="cris 242.jpg"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script><a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/9008613@N06/2312074851/in/album-72157600399787651/" title="cris 231.jpg"><img src="" width="640" height="480" alt="cris 231.jpg"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script><a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/9008613@N06/2312076871/in/album-72157600399787651/" title="cris 228.jpg"><img src="" width="640" height="480" alt="cris 228.jpg"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script><a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/9008613@N06/2312112185/in/album-72157600399787651/" title="cris 135.jpg"><img src="" width="640" height="480" alt="cris 135.jpg"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[petronius]

52. Great shots! We were really impressed by how kind people were to the cats (and dogs)

in the Istanbul area as well as in Selcuk: food and water everywhere, a frequent scratch behind the ear, and if the critter had to be moved along it was always done gently.

My fave from the Ayasofya:



to the Turks...

[hifiguy]

53. Squee!

[JCMach1]

47. Armenia and Greece are the Countries for Dogs

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/9008613@N06/1666070970/in/album-72157602569004984/" title="ghost 127"><img src="?zz=1" width="640" height="480" alt="ghost 127"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Syzygy321]

49. I haven't been back to Rome in 30 years, but

back then the stray-cat problem as heartbreaking. It was fun to see them prowling the Coloseum and the ruins, but on the whole they were mangy, desperate-looking, and often injured.

(Peculiarly, the strays would actually eat bread ...either because they were starving, or because they were Italian.)

Anyone know if Rome's cats are better off these days?

[AnnieBW]

61. There's cats all over Greece, too

Apparently they don't believe in spaying and neutering there. I know that some of the vendors were selling cat-related merchandise with the proceeds going to a trap-neuter-release program. But the strays are all over the place - and seriously cute.

[DinahMoeHum]

66. . . .especially on the islands.

http://www.greekcatwelfare.moonfruit.com/

[AnnieBW]

67. I had one little guy on Aegina want to come home with me

He curled up in my beach bag!

[Little Tich]

62. Wow, great post. K&R

[nomorenomore08]

63. Cats are traditionally revered in Islam IIRC. So this isn't surprising. n/t

[Syzygy321]

65. They'd take issue with "revered" :)

because, shirk! ... but I do remember a parable about a woman who does nothing sinful, but then abuses a cat and gets sent to hellfire for it.