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Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:02 AM

A couple of years ago, I was personally responsible for starting a lot of OPs on Zimmerman

And in many of those threads some posters felt inspired to come to his defense against my characterizing of him as a lying, murdering sociopath who escaped justice, after he stalked, assaulted and murdered an innocent child.

Of course, I accounted for Zimmerman's acquittal, not because he was "innocent", but because we all happen to live in a country in which it's almost impossible for a young, black person to receive any sort of justice, due to our dependence on systemic white supremacy, the inadequacies laden in our system of so-called justice and our blood-thirstily fetishistic national gun culture. That couldn't be even more obvious at this stage in the game.

But, I just have to say that in many of those threads, a great many of the posters who came to Zimmerman's defense had actually turned out to be racist trolls and were subsequently banned. I'm patting myself on the back for helping to out those motherfuckers, of course. BUT, we should have been clued in by people who seemed bound and determined to defend that murdering scumbag, while pissing on the corpse of a black child who was obviously defending himself from Zimmerman's unprovoked attack. Think of it as a litmus test.

However, I'd like to point out, for the record, that I believe that the general consensus on DU today, with members of good faith, is that Zimmerman is now and has always been a lying, murdering sociopath who escaped justice, after he stalked, assaulted and murdered an innocent child. We all agree with that assessment, right? Right.

Many of his defenders are sleeping with the virtual fishes. To them I say, "Fuck you and stay banned."

Zimmerman deserves to be rotting in prison now… I'm no less sure of this today than I was two years ago.

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Reply A couple of years ago, I was personally responsible for starting a lot of OPs on Zimmerman (Original post)
MrScorpio Aug 2015 OP
Gothmog Aug 2015 #1
Logical Aug 2015 #2
SidDithers Aug 2015 #3
Agschmid Aug 2015 #4
chervilant Aug 2015 #5
Wellstone ruled Aug 2015 #6
onehandle Aug 2015 #7
Control-Z Aug 2015 #39
malaise Aug 2015 #8
Abe Linkon Aug 2015 #17
mimi85 Aug 2015 #25
RufusTFirefly Aug 2015 #57
Abe Linkon Aug 2015 #80
RufusTFirefly Aug 2015 #82
LanternWaste Aug 2015 #142
-none Aug 2015 #65
Abe Linkon Aug 2015 #78
Baitball Blogger Aug 2015 #93
davidpdx Aug 2015 #116
sunnystarr Aug 2015 #108
Abe Linkon Aug 2015 #119
Lint Head Aug 2015 #9
Solly Mack Aug 2015 #10
MoonRiver Aug 2015 #11
Baitball Blogger Aug 2015 #12
sinkingfeeling Aug 2015 #13
virtualobserver Aug 2015 #14
Lydia Leftcoast Aug 2015 #89
love_katz Aug 2015 #15
AlbertCat Aug 2015 #16
Enthusiast Aug 2015 #28
dhill926 Aug 2015 #18
underpants Aug 2015 #19
rbrnmw Aug 2015 #20
JEB Aug 2015 #21
AuntPatsy Aug 2015 #22
treestar Aug 2015 #23
DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #24
Chitown Kev Aug 2015 #55
Miigwech Aug 2015 #26
Enthusiast Aug 2015 #27
ellisonz Aug 2015 #29
JCMach1 Aug 2015 #30
abelenkpe Aug 2015 #31
Hydra Aug 2015 #32
Scuba Aug 2015 #33
progressoid Aug 2015 #34
DefenseLawyer Aug 2015 #35
randys1 Aug 2015 #151
DefenseLawyer Sep 2015 #177
randys1 Sep 2015 #178
DefenseLawyer Sep 2015 #179
randys1 Sep 2015 #180
LWolf Aug 2015 #36
passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #48
LWolf Aug 2015 #74
hunter Aug 2015 #37
brewens Aug 2015 #38
Z_California Aug 2015 #40
Shandris Aug 2015 #41
Hekate Aug 2015 #42
H2O Man Aug 2015 #43
gregcrawford Aug 2015 #75
H2O Man Aug 2015 #156
gregcrawford Sep 2015 #186
H2O Man Sep 2015 #187
awoke_in_2003 Aug 2015 #44
Paladin Aug 2015 #45
Live and Learn Aug 2015 #46
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #47
trumad Aug 2015 #49
CreekDog Aug 2015 #160
C Moon Aug 2015 #50
Iggo Aug 2015 #51
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #52
NRaleighLiberal Aug 2015 #53
DrewFlorida Aug 2015 #54
hfojvt Aug 2015 #56
steve2470 Aug 2015 #61
hfojvt Aug 2015 #66
steve2470 Aug 2015 #68
CreekDog Aug 2015 #125
thebighobgoblin Aug 2015 #79
hfojvt Aug 2015 #84
thebighobgoblin Aug 2015 #95
Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2015 #129
Noid Aug 2015 #136
Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2015 #137
Noid Aug 2015 #141
Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2015 #145
Name removed Sep 2015 #165
Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2015 #166
Name removed Sep 2015 #172
Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2015 #173
Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2015 #176
JonLP24 Sep 2015 #182
Captain Stern Sep 2015 #183
Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2015 #185
bettyellen Aug 2015 #139
Noid Aug 2015 #99
thebighobgoblin Aug 2015 #103
Noid Aug 2015 #135
bettyellen Aug 2015 #140
gwheezie Aug 2015 #105
Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2015 #132
Noid Aug 2015 #138
Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2015 #144
Name removed Sep 2015 #170
Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2015 #171
Name removed Sep 2015 #174
Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2015 #175
thebighobgoblin Aug 2015 #159
dflprincess Aug 2015 #107
CreekDog Aug 2015 #124
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #67
Post removed Aug 2015 #86
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #94
Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #112
JonLP24 Sep 2015 #184
Spazito Aug 2015 #85
hfojvt Aug 2015 #88
Spazito Aug 2015 #90
dumbcat Aug 2015 #100
CreekDog Aug 2015 #146
dumbcat Aug 2015 #147
CreekDog Aug 2015 #148
dumbcat Aug 2015 #150
LanternWaste Sep 2015 #162
Skittles Aug 2015 #114
Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #92
Hissyspit Aug 2015 #96
tenderfoot Aug 2015 #120
Darb Aug 2015 #122
Rex Aug 2015 #127
Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #128
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #130
Rex Aug 2015 #131
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #133
Rex Aug 2015 #134
CreekDog Aug 2015 #149
dumbcat Aug 2015 #152
CreekDog Aug 2015 #153
CreekDog Aug 2015 #153
dumbcat Aug 2015 #155
CreekDog Aug 2015 #157
CreekDog Aug 2015 #158
LanternWaste Aug 2015 #143
JonLP24 Sep 2015 #181
Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #58
LiberalLoner Aug 2015 #59
Liberal_in_LA Aug 2015 #60
Oilwellian Aug 2015 #62
steve2470 Aug 2015 #63
Unknown Beatle Aug 2015 #64
appalachiablue Aug 2015 #69
Initech Aug 2015 #70
lisby Aug 2015 #71
ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #72
mainstreetonce Aug 2015 #73
catbyte Aug 2015 #76
valerief Aug 2015 #77
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #81
lovemydog Aug 2015 #83
mwooldri Aug 2015 #87
Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #91
yardwork Aug 2015 #97
Miles Archer Aug 2015 #98
randys1 Aug 2015 #101
sheshe2 Aug 2015 #102
gwheezie Aug 2015 #104
peasant one Aug 2015 #106
mountain grammy Aug 2015 #109
lark Aug 2015 #110
TSIAS Aug 2015 #111
PBass Aug 2015 #113
blackspade Aug 2015 #115
hueymahl Aug 2015 #117
gollygee Aug 2015 #118
MisterP Aug 2015 #121
d_legendary1 Aug 2015 #123
Rex Aug 2015 #126
trumad Aug 2015 #161
Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2015 #163
trumad Sep 2015 #164
H2O Man Sep 2015 #168
Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2015 #169
H2O Man Sep 2015 #167

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:04 AM

1. Zimmerman is a sad person

I agreed with your posts back then and now these posts have been really proven to be accurate

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:04 AM

2. +1000! He is a scum bag. You were right then and right now! nt

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:05 AM

3. "Fuck you and stay banned."...

Unfortunately, we both know that won't be the case.

Good OP.



Sid

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:07 AM

5. I remember being derided

for calling him a murderer before he went to trial.

I have to wonder where are all his puling sycophants now?

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:08 AM

6. Have a Relative who lived in

Sanford for many years,and he predicted the out come in this case. Subtle and overt Racism was so rampant that he had to leave and moved back to the Midwest.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:18 AM

7. 'Many of his defenders are sleeping with the virtual fishes.'

That's an illusion. They are all here. Every one of them.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:59 PM

39. Amazing, isn't it? n/t

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:19 AM

8. +1,000

Like you I knew he was a no good racist scumbag supremacist who really wants to be white. He should be in prison. It won't be long before he crashes and burns and it won't be a good way.

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Response to malaise (Reply #8)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:53 AM

17. I really hope...

Zimmerman dies in a shoot out with police. It would be perfect poetic justice!

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Response to Abe Linkon (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:16 PM

25. As much as I think Zimmerman is a lying

scumbag, I don't think wishing anyone dying benefits society. For instance, I along with the rest of the DU community can't stand Trump, but I wouldn't wish for him to die. He will flame out sooner or later. As will Zimmerman. Hate and revenge just continues a vicious cycle.

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Response to mimi85 (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:51 PM

57. +1 We all die, but I would never, ever wish for anyone's death.

Vengeance is the problem. It should never be part of the solution.

I find it disturbing (and more than a little ironic) how bloodthirsty some people can be in the name of justice.

Justice is not the same as vengeance.

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #57)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:18 PM

80. I'm not talking about vengeance...

I want Zimmerman to receive poetic justice. I don't want anyone to kill him or for him to commit suicide for that matter. Knowing his personality, a violent confrontation with police is inevitable.

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Response to Abe Linkon (Reply #80)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:28 PM

82. "I really hope... Zimmerman dies in a shoot out with police."

Those are your words.

Whatever you want to call it, you are hoping for Zimmerman's death.

He's a horrible man, but he will never receive that sort of wish from me. Ever.

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #82)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 04:06 PM

142. It's easy to confuse a visceral response with a person's true thoughts.

It's easy to confuse a visceral response with a person's true thoughts, measured with more care and consideration than our knee-jerk reactions, lacking reflection and consideration may bring.

When younger, I often argued with a brother to whom I often said, "I wish you were dead" which was simply not the case.

However, should we simply wish to argue the case and maintain the pretense we know what moves and motivates others, that too is an option.

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Response to mimi85 (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:36 PM

65. Trump doesn't carry a gun, with the hope of being in a situation, so he can use it to kill people.

So there's that. Zimmerman, on the other hand is part of the problem with guns. As far as I know, Trump is not.

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Response to mimi85 (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:06 PM

78. You're missing the point!

I'm not saying that anyone should kill Zimmerman. What I'm saying is that knowing his personality and his past problems with police, I have no doubt that a violent confrontation with police is inevitable. If Zimmerman is killed, it will be his fault, just like he said about Treyvon Martin.

And to point out the obvious, there's no reason to wish Trump dead since he hasn't killed anyone!

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Response to Abe Linkon (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:43 PM

93. No one should wish that on anyone.

I would rather that he continues to get high exposure, because every time that he says something boneheaded he exposes the racial sentiments of the rest of his community that think like him.

At some point, either they will hang their head in shame or it will become evident that we need to fire people from public agencies that think like him.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #93)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 08:41 AM

116. I don't wish that either, but I would guess given his proclivity of getting into trouble

sooner or later he's going to find himself on the wrong side of a fight.

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Response to Abe Linkon (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:58 PM

108. I understand exactly what you mean Abe

so shrug off those who are piling on about hopes and wishes and it seems they sort of feel like are either better than or you with the hopes/wishes are less than they.

If our hopes/wishes had any power we would all have a better quality life and the world would be almost perfect.

So since that has no power your feelings are real and a normal response for that circumstance.

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Response to sunnystarr (Reply #108)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 10:00 AM

119. Thanks sunnystarr...

You really made my day!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:19 AM

9. Que the spy thriller theme song. "Mr Scorpio,

We wish you further success combating the politically inept. Your Austin Martin is waiting for you. But first we must escort you through our special weapons facility." Spy theme out-tro.

P.S.
Always loved your DU ID.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:20 AM

10. K&R

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:25 AM

11. I despise, and always have, that murdering SOB!

Can you guess that I agee with you?

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:27 AM

12. It was a turning point for DU.

Great moment in this website's history. And I wouldn't downplay the important role the admins played behind the scenes to help make it happen.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:29 AM

13. He's the scum of the earth.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:33 AM

14. The only comfort that I find in these latest Zimmerman tweets......

 

is that the RW can no longer hold him up as some sort of hero without appearing to be completely and openly racist and disgusting.

It is still so painful to watch this guy in action, though.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #14)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:19 PM

89. But some of them are PROUD of being openly racist and disgusting

I'm sure you've seen how that works. "I'm not racist. I'm just not afraid to tell the truth."

Yeah, yeah.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:33 AM

15. + a bazillion

K & R, sad to say. Why sad? Because I would rather be celebrating the scrum bag's arrest and life imprisonment. You were and are completely correct.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:37 AM

16. Zimmerman is an icon of the tsunami of racism that has swept this entire country...

 

.... after the election of our 1st block president.

And a poignant one as well...for he's not so very white himself.

I'm sure there is a swath of Zimmerman supporters who also would't allow him to join their Country Club or use their front door because of the color of his skin and his origins.

The gun worship of course fits nicely in with the racism and fear.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #16)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:22 PM

28. Very well said! nt

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:02 PM

18. K & R....

you said it....

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:02 PM

19. It doesn't take informed and intelligent people long to come to the right conclusion

You were spot on back then and now.

Let's not forget that it was both an openly compliant police force AND a lot of right wing money that paid for his defense.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:04 PM

20. Fuck that racist swine

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:11 PM

21. K&R

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:12 PM

22. So many just like him, sadly they rarely get caught for their horrific crimes

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:15 PM

23. may they stay banned

no place for that on DU. Zimmerman is a murdering scumbag. Too bad he is out there causing more trouble - he has and he will.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:15 PM

24. The true sign you are right

Is to see the wicked expose their true selves once fear of punishment is passed, and to see their defenders construct armor and shelter for the retribution that sadly, may not come.

Zimmerman helped make Ferguson, Baltimore, and New York possible, as cops felt emboldened by seeing Zimmerman anointed.

And sooner or later, when blue-eyed white, suburban kids get shot with the same ease that the Tray martins did, we will hear people blubber, and we will say:

"Remember that old line by a Lutheran Minister about "first they came for the Jews?, well folks, we warned you, so you can go over to that corner of hell with the people who did not stop the Nazis, the Stalinist, the McCarthyism monsters and Klansmen and others because they chanted the mind killing mantra "they will never come after me." Yeah, it is a long, sad line, but it is where you belong."

PS: Slightly off topic addition, but still pertinent:

I really really really hope we do not add "I never thought Trump would get away with it" to that list, though he is linked to Zimmerman in that he enable the majority to take off their masks and put on the white sheets, and scream the hate at the top of their lungs!

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:48 PM

55. Heh

Last edited Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:26 PM - Edit history (1)

And sooner or later, when blue-eyed white, suburban kids get shot with the same ease that the Tray martins did, we will hear people blubber...


Thing is that HAS been happening with increasing frequency but (as was done with Zachary Hammond) the kid is on drugs or disabled or something is an excuse...but they can take a white supremacist terrorist like Dylann Roof to fucking Burger King upon arrest...

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:19 PM

26. Yes

If you take a stand on an issue and you know that you are correct ... have truth on your side ..... it does not matter if people are against you. You were right then and you have been proven right. Defending Zimmerman was akin to defending the rotten system that allowed that cretin to walk out of that courtroom. Speak out MrScorpio ........ never stop!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:20 PM

27. I firmly believe that Zimmerman is a lying, murdering sociopath who escaped justice.

I cannot even understand arguments to the contrary.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:30 PM

29. Many of them are just gun trolls desperate to protect their perceived right to tote.

Most of those posters are still with us.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:32 PM

30. Evil, lying, murdering, racist, sexist troll about sums Zimmerman up

true then, true now...

thank you Mr. Scorpio

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:36 PM

31. All true. Zimmerman should be in jail.

So sad that he is not.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:37 PM

32. The fact that it was even a question is disgusting

What happened at the time was obviously a hate crime...but apparently the victim is guilty until proven innocent.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:37 PM

33. True then, true now.

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:45 PM

34. Yup. n/t

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:49 PM

35. The worst part of all of it, for me

 

Was that Zimmerman's trial was a sham from the start. The prosecution was in the tank from beginning to end. They made a mockery of the entire process.

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #35)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 06:32 PM

151. Just because jurors referred to the accused as "Georgie Boy" or "Georgie" cant recall which

doesnt mean it wasnt a fair trial.

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Response to randys1 (Reply #151)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 09:45 AM

177. The jurors process the information they receive

 

It was the prosecutors and the police witnesses that "took a dive" in this case.

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #177)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 11:22 AM

178. But how do you know that if you werent there. I dont know about the jury, do you?

Was it a white killer and a Black victim and a mostly white jury in a racist area?

I dont know, I am asking.

If so, then just like in Zimmerman case, the jury purposely let the killer go because the victim was Black and if you shoot a Black person they must have deserved it.

etc

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Response to randys1 (Reply #178)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:10 PM

179. If you want to think that this was a real prosecution

 

and that the prosecutors zealously presented their case only to be thwarted by a racist jury, feel free. But as someone who has tried major felony cases for 20 years I will tell you that this was not the case. Whether the jurors were racists or not, the State was never playing to win.

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #179)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:57 PM

180. I am not claiming anything, i accept your observation and it sounds like the state dodging this one

is a bigger problem, actually.

But not surprising.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:49 PM

36. I agreed with you then.

I agree with you now.

I have a question that, considering the recent animosity on the subject here, I'm almost afraid to ask; almost, but not quite. Please take it in the spirit of solidarity it is intended:

Do you think that Zimmerman getting away with murdering Trayvon Martin led to increased racial injustice, or to greater public awareness of those injustices, or both?

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Response to LWolf (Reply #36)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:29 PM

48. I think both

For many people it woke them up. For some it made them defend guns and racial profiling even more. I think it depends on which side you were on to begin with.

But the good news is, I think more people are on the right side, and because of that, they are awake and aware today of what is happening to POC. And they are fed up.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #48)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:40 PM

74. It's been too long coming.

The getting fed up.

I see the both sides thing...it feels like the side that craves guns and manufactures situations to use them in have been more and more active...AND we're paying more attention to them.

I can say that it's been a re-awakening for me. I was aware of racial injustices, and particularly with racial injustices involving the justice system, from a young age. I wasn't hearing about them, or seeing them, though, in my later years, so that awareness just sort of dozed at the back of my brain. And that's my fault, for not keeping up. Zimmerman certainly got my attention in a dramatic way. It shouldn't have taken that, I'm profoundly sorry to say.

I HOPE that we can move forward together to address this cancer on our humanity.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:49 PM

37. It was obvious from the start.

Yes, Zimmerman deserves to be rotting in prison now.

He's a racist sociopath murderer.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:51 PM

38. I suppose the "hateriots" that love Zimmerman won't ever realize how they look

to the rest of us.

It's only too bad Martin couldn't have realized Zimmerman might have a gun. I'd bet he could have controlled him and given him the ass whoopin' he had coming to him. I have no doubt at all that Zimmerman provoked the whole thing. That's the big thing with a lot of the gun nuts. A bed wetting momma's boy can be a jerk and if someone gets in their face over it, they have the gun to protect them.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:01 PM

40. I believed it then

and there's no doubt about it now.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:07 PM

42. All I can say is thank you, Mr. S, and I wish Z's defenders here were truly gone....

I suspect quite a few have returned from the dead, emanating from the crypt in the gungeon into the upper reaches of DU whenever there's another mass murder.

You played and continue to play a key role in raising awareness here.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:09 PM

43. Recommended.

Well said. Thank you for this.

The only thing that I disagree on is the use of the word "sociopath." In a clinical sense, I do not believe that there is evidence of this. But that is not to suggest that Zimmerman is in any sense "better," or "less dangerous," than a true sociopath. He is a cowardly, aggressively hostile, violent bully. And while he was found "not guilty" -- which does not translate into "innocent" -- he absolutely deserves to be incarcerated, to protect the public from his continuing threat.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #43)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:49 PM

75. Not a sociopath? REALLY?

I would posit that he is a textbook sociopath. The single instance of Trayvon Martin's murder might not provide a definitive diagnosis, but when all of his actions, both before and after that crime, are taken into account, I cannot see how anyone could come to any other conclusion.

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Response to gregcrawford (Reply #75)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:35 PM

156. Really.

I use Robert Hare's text books. He is considered the leading expert in North America. I don't think any clinician that I have worked with, or know, would think that there is reason to diagnose Zimmerman as a sociopath.

On the other hand, I realize that a good many lay people would mistakenly attempt to use that diagnosis, because they think it fits. But they are merely feigning insight.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #156)

Thu Sep 3, 2015, 09:07 PM

186. Well, he certainly fits the Diagnostic Criteria in DSM-IV...

... I think I'll go with that. Bone up on his history; it's enlightening.

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Response to gregcrawford (Reply #186)

Thu Sep 3, 2015, 09:47 PM

187. He is certainly

an ASPDed person. But, despite the current DSM criteria -- which as every clinician knows combined the two, only so that they could collect from insurance companies for treating true sociopaths -- doesn't provide an accurate assessment for sociopathy. You would do better to rely upon the works of Hare (or Meloy, his top student, who was my instructor).

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:12 PM

44. We nuked more people in one term of MIRT

 

than I saw in three terms as moderator because of Zimmerman. I saw some vile shit.


EDIT: I am remembering incorrectly. I was on MIRT during Michael Brown and Ferguson, not for GZ

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:14 PM

45. Well said, MrScorpio. Thank you. (nt)

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:18 PM

46. Some of the responses were very disturbing to say the least.

Not what one would expect to find on a progressive site. Sadly, I've come to expect it here from some.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:21 PM

47. I'm surprised the Republicans didn't run him for office.

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:36 PM

49. I absolutely believe that several are still here...

 

And are careful on going over the line when defending him.

The old...I believe the jury was correct meme is their favorite rebuttal ....

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Response to trumad (Reply #49)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:36 PM

160. Well that was prescient, look at post #56

And later in the thread at the dumb cat that thanked him for the post.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:36 PM

50. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind now. I recall people sticking up for him, as well.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:38 PM

51. They jump to his defense because guns are more important than people.

To them, black lives are an acceptable price to pay for the precious.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:39 PM

52. Well said

And because you started the threads - they can't gaslight you if they make their way back in.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:43 PM

53. I was on MIRT around that time - the Zimmerman posts were like flypaper

for newbie trolls - we got em as quick as we could, but it is always interesting to see when search engines pick up keywords and it sends "non-DU types", shall we say, here like moths to a porch light.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:43 PM

54. I agree 100%, always have. George Zimmerman is a racist sociopathic murderer!

It's a shame on America that the racist Sanford police department was complicit in Zimmerman not being brought to justice, due to a lack due diligence and an assumption that black people are bad people.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:49 PM

56. sorry Scorp

that does not make any logical sense

but I get it, I guess. Trayvon is black and that is all that matters.

And we love our shibboleths, and the hatred of those who mispronounce.

"We all agree with that assessment"

Well, it sure seems that way since anybody who dared to disagree would be set upon by a lynch mob of the compassionate.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:14 PM

61. "Trayvon is black and that is all that matters. And we love our shibboleths...."

Holy shit. If I say anything I'll get a hide, I just know it. NUFF SAID, holy shit.

eta: preserving for posterity

hfojvt (36,065 posts)

56. sorry Scorp

that does not make any logical sense

but I get it, I guess. Trayvon is black and that is all that matters.

And we love our shibboleths, and the hatred of those who mispronounce.

"We all agree with that assessment"

Well, it sure seems that way since anybody who dared to disagree would be set upon by a lynch mob of the compassionate.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #61)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:47 PM

66. you said "sh*t"

I'm alerting.

The world needs more lerts.

Consider the scenario without race (Imagine there are no races, it's easy if you try...)

Person A is on top of person B whaling away. How is it NOT self defense if person B shoots person A? I sure would if I was person B in that scenario (and if I had a gun, which, of course, I wouldn't be so lucky as to have a gun). Wouldn't you?

Of course, the scenario is deeper, since person B was "the mad follower". Since he was following person A, he clearly deserves to get his ass kicked and thereby has ZERO right to self defense.

That makes no sense either.

It is sad to me, how logic seems to fly away once race is added to the mix. At least for some people. At one point Ta-Nehisi Coates and Charles Barkley were "Zimmerman defenders". (Coates later abjured his earlier opinion, or at least contradicted it).

But it is just like an INTJ to expect humans to be reasonable, when they clearly are not.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:52 PM

68. I'm proud to say I alerted on you

Not going to debate this. You are wrong, so so so so wrong. Good day.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:13 PM

79. You can't take race out of it, though

 

Race is necessarily included in the analysis, not because George Zimmerman is a case-closed member of the KKK or anything of that sort. But included nevertheless because he acted upon biases that are quite obvious, which suggest that a young black teenager walking around at night must be 'up to no good' (his exact words, I might add).

Zimmerman was the one in control the entire time - until he was no longer in control by virtue of triggering a very understandable reaction in a frightened teenager who was lost in a strange neighborhood and who clearly made it obvious that he didn't want to be followed and harassed.

Confronting a stranger in the dark is, at best, suspicious behavior. When someone runs away, they're making it known they're frightened and don't want to be followed any longer - that much should have been known to George Zimmerman and to anyone who followed the case. The decision to continue following Trayvon Martin was a decision to look past the obvious and to initiate a potentially violent confrontation. Why? Because Zimmerman knew he was packing heat and believed the law allowed him to use deadly force if Martin dared to fight back. Turns out, he was absolutely right.

Zimmerman's kinda like you're 1960s Mississippi cracker. He knew that he had States rights and juries of sympathetic people on his side, and he liked his chances. If you can't see it this way, it's because you honestly don't want to. I don't think George Zimmerman necessarily set out with the idea that he necessarily would kill Trayvon Martin, but the guy obviously has a strong psychological need to make up for the lack of penis size to the point where he regularly plays the role of Don Quijote. Ever wonder why this f*ck face is involved in so many instances of violence?

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Response to thebighobgoblin (Reply #79)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:40 PM

84. 6 + 8 = 15

If you can't see it that way, it's because you clearly do not want to. Why should anybody want to see something in a way that does not look true to them?

"Confronting a stranger in the dark"

Except who did that?

Following somebody who is running away is usually not dangerous - not unless they stop and turn around.

A person is simply NOT "fighting back" if they turn around and attack. Chasing is not fighting, and Zimmerman clearly was not even chasing because he said on the phone, on the phone mind you, so I am not taking his word - this was recorded. He said "I don't know where he is." and then he continued to talk on the phone for a minute.

Trayvon had ample time to get home, and unfortunately chose not to. Instead he chose to "confront a stranger in the dark".

He seemed to feel confident that he could kick this stranger's ass if a fight happened. And he was right. He was winning the fistfight until the other guy who was on his back yelling 'help, help' decided to use his gun because nobody was helping.

And you cannot see it that way - because?

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #84)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 06:05 PM

95. I can't see it that way because common sense won't allow me to.

 

You're just repeating the gun lobby's talking points narrative on what happened that night.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #84)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:15 PM

129. I'm sorry, but in what way does any of that you've just said made any logical sense whatsoever?

You automatically assume, without evidence to support it, that Trayvon "turn(ed) around and attack(ed)" and that he "chose to confront a stranger in the dark."

We know Zimmerman said, "Shit, he's running." We know Zimmerman exited his car. We know Zimmerman admitted to dispatch he was following Trayvon. So we know, in fact, that Zimmerman did chase Trayvon for a certain period of time. And then--and keep this in mind--he lost him. Trayvon got away. Presumably he went down the "dog walk" alleyway between the rows of townhouses.

Now just stop and think for just a second. Trayvon--who's done nothing wrong that evening, nothing wrong at all--starts being followed by Zimmerman, a man he never met before and knows nothing about. Then he gets chased on foot by this stranger, and presumably he still has no idea why he's being chased, but he knows to run away and try to lose him. And he does in fact manage to lose him.

So after expending so much energy trying to escape and get away from the strange man chasing him for no discernible reason, what happens in that brief couple of minutes that Trayvon does a complete and total 180 and decides he's going to go and ambush and attack this strange man who he doesn't know and who he doesn't know why he being chased? That's not normal human behavior, for a teenaged boy or any type of human. By his actions, he clearly wanted nothing to do with Zimmerman, and now we're supposed to believe he wanted to go back and kick this stranger's ass? Sorry, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Meanwhile, you've got tons of other questions about Zimmerman's behavior and his story. Why did he change his mind and tell dispatch that instead of meeting him at his car, to have police call him on his phone instead? (Keep in mind, his car was only about 100 feet from the spot where he claims to have lost Trayvon and dispatch tells him not to follow Trayvon) Why would it have taken so long (a span of several minutes) for Zimmerman to supposedly walk 100 feet back to his car? Why did Zimmerman tell police he got out of the car because he wanted to see a street sign (when there's only three streets in the community and he's lived there for years)? Why did Zimmerman claim that Trayvon was managing to pummel him with both his fists and cover his mouth (which would presumably muffled the cries for help he claimed to have been crying) and grab at his gun all at the same time? Why were Zimmerman's wounds not consistent with his head being smashed into concrete up to 30 times, when that is what he claimed?

I know you've been locked out of this conversation, but still do me a favor and take an honest, unbiased look at this situation. Realize what you knew about Zimmerman both then and now. And ask yourself--regardless of your opinion on the verdict itself--do you honestly believe this man's story that he was acting in self-defense? To me, all logic goes against it.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #129)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:32 PM

136. The logic

 

So after expending so much energy trying to escape and get away from the strange man chasing him for no discernible reason, what happens in that brief couple of minutes that Trayvon does a complete and total 180 and decides he's going to go and ambush and attack this strange man who he doesn't know and who he doesn't know why he being chased?


From wherever he had concealed himself, I imagine Martin probably saw and heard Zimmerman on his phone.

Why do you think Martin ran in the first place? Because a truck drove past him? Or did he run because he saw Zimmerman leering at him while talking on his phone and connected the dots that this guy was calling the cops on him?

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Response to Noid (Reply #136)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:40 PM

137. Trayvon Martin ran because a strange man was following him for no apparent reason....

...and he didn't care to stay around and find out. That's pretty plain and simple. If someone weird was following me for no apparent reason, it wouldn't make me--or anyone else for that matter--particularly comfortable. I wouldn't really want to stick around in that circumstance.

Then, Zimmerman loses Trayvon....so why in any circumstance would Trayvon "double back" and attack the man he was just running from? Even if he ran because you supposedly believe he knew Zimmerman was calling the police? Why would he go back and attack Zimmerman? That just doesn't make any sense. Zero.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #137)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 04:01 PM

141. Doesn't sound plain and simple

 

Zimmerman exited his vehicle after Martin took off running.

The sequence of events went as follows:

-- Zimmerman drives past Martin and pulls into the clubhouse to call the cops.

-- Martin crosses past Zimmerman in his truck and disappears from Zimmerman's field of vision.

-- Zimmerman backs out of the clubhouse and swing arounds the corner.

-- Martin runs.

So what was it about the truck that caused Martin to run?



Why would he go back and attack Zimmerman? That just doesn't make any sense. Zero.


Because he called the cops on for no reason?

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Response to Noid (Reply #141)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 04:27 PM

145. Zimmerman had been following Trayon in his car for over two minutes.

Someone follows you for 10 seconds in a car, no big deal

Someone follows you for a half minute in a car, it's a little weird.

Someone follows you for a minute in a car, it's very weird.

Someone follows you for two minutes in a car, you have to wonder what the hell is up and are you in any sort of danger.


And your explanation for why Trayvon "double backed" and "ambushed" Zimmerman is the most cockamamie nonsense I've ever heard.

You assume Trayvon knew Zimmerman was calling the police on him without any substantial evidence to back that up. But fine, let's indulge that for a minute. Trayvon supposedly sees Zimmerman calling police and runs and hides. How exactly is his next normal, logical response going to be, hey, let me go back, wait out and ambush Zimmerman for calling the cops on him for no reason? So if the police arrive and Trayvon's wailing away on Zimmerman, he gets arrested for assault and battery? Don't tell me you actually believe that nonsense.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #145)


Response to Name removed (Reply #165)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 04:32 PM

166. Easy.

His phone call to dispatch. He's on the phone in the car for two minutes before he gets out of the car at the 2:10 mark to chase Trayvon.

Mind you, it's possible he was watching Trayvon for a good time earlier before he dialed dispatch, so it's probably more than two minutes. Two minutes is a conservative estimate.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #166)


Response to Name removed (Reply #172)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 05:32 PM

173. Zimmerman didn't park and disembark at the clubhouse, he parked around the top of the T.




So if he stopped at the clubhouse momentarily, he would have had to continue driving further down Twin Trees to that spot, meaning he continued to follow Trayvon via car.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #173)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 09:30 AM

176. MIRT'ed already? Damn.

I was enjoying that.

Was curious to see what odd twisting of the facts he would bring up next.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #166)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 03:20 PM

182. How hard is it for people?

He was obviously heading home and nowhere else but home coming from the store. Didn't understand the whole truck thing but you raise an excellent point about perceptions particularly from Trayvon Martin's point of view.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #129)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 03:29 PM

183. Big "Thumbs Up" for this post.

I'm one of the people that think the jury made the 'correct' decision, based on the evidence they were given.

You've pointed out the things that the jury should have been exposed to, and weren't.

Three things I'll add:

1) Zimmerman claimed that before Martin assaulted him, he said something like "Do you have a problem?" Zimmerman said something like: "No, I don't have a problem with you." That makes no sense at all. Why didn't Zimmerman identify himself? He DID have a problem with Martin....he thought Martin was a crook. I wouldn't expect him to say "yeah, I think you're a criminal." , but he could have said he was with the neighborhood watch. Zimmerman (by his own words) lied to Martin (That's important because Martin already knows Zimmerman is following him)

2) Nobody seemed to give a damn about finding out about why Martin's body was so far away from where Zimmerman claimed the beginning of their altercation happened. Martin's body was not found at the place Zimmerman said he was attacked.

3) Zimmerman never claimed that he shot Martin just because he was getting beaten up. He claimed Martin saw his gun, tried to grab it, and said something like "you're going to die tonight" (all while he was beating Zimmerman up, and Zimmerman's gun was in it's holster....yet somehow Zimmerman got the gun first). The Prosecution went there with the mannequin, but didn't really follow through.

I don't think Zimmerman set out to murder Martin. If he had intended to do that, he wouldn't have called 911 at all. I think he went looking for Martin after he got off the call with 911, and found him. I'm guessing he probably tried to detain him (maybe with the gun already drawn) until the police got there. Zimmerman thought he was catching a robber, and Martin thought he was being attacked by a crazed guy. My guess is that Martin acted in self-defense.

The prosecution never gave the jury a good reason to think that what Zimmerman said in his tape, couldn't have actually happened.

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Response to Captain Stern (Reply #183)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 04:14 PM

185. Yeah, I don't think Zimmerman premediated the murder either.

I think he wanted to detain him for police so the police and the neighborhood could all give him an attaboy for addressing the crime issue.

Problem was, as his conduct both before and after the shooting indicates, he's an a) highly volatile person and b) not that smart.

He was already pissed off that evening because of both the fight he had with his wife and because he automatically assumed Trayvon was in his words "up to no good". Then Trayvon ran which pissed him off more. Then when somehow their paths crossed again, Trayvon resisted him and possibly punched him in the face in the process. If it was in fact Trayvon screaming for help (and I believe it was), I think that pushed Zimmerman over the edge and he simply snapped, as if Trayvon were someone insulting him on his Twitter page. Except him snapping here involved shooting a gun.

Never did it seem to cross Zimmerman's mind that even after he had left his car and come across Trayvon, he could have probably diffused the situation by identifying himself and calmly asking Trayvon if he was lost or something like that (even if he still thought Trayvon was "up to no good."

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #84)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:54 PM

139. Zimmerman obviously lied about having his head slammed. There is no way

 

His story was ridiculous and a fair jury could have - and should have- deemed it unbelievable.

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Response to thebighobgoblin (Reply #79)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 07:15 PM

99. "Confront a stranger"

 

Why do you believe that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle with the intent to confront Martin?

Wasn't Zimmerman operating under the impression that Martin was a troublemaking outsider who was attempting to flee the neighborhood?

If Zimmerman really wanted to aggressively confront Martin, wouldn't it make more sense for him to just stay in his truck and drive down to the back entrance to cut off Martin's supposed route of escape?

Why get out and just walk after a fleeing suspect if you hope to overtake him?

Zimmerman had a long history of calling the cops on blacks folks, but it was also a long history of non-confrontation. Zimmerman sounded like he was about to piss his pants in fear -- and that was when he was in his truck. What made him spontaneously morph into this reckless and cocksure lunatic?




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Response to Noid (Reply #99)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 08:09 PM

103. Don't be so fucking thick

 

The evidence is pretty clear. Martin didn't walk up to Zimmerman's vehicle. The confrontation occurred OUTSIDE THE VEHICLE. Like waaaay outside.

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Response to thebighobgoblin (Reply #103)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:11 PM

135. Huh?

 

The confrontation occurred OUTSIDE THE VEHICLE. Like waaaay outside.


Where did I say that there was a confrontation inside the vehicle?

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Response to Noid (Reply #135)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:59 PM

140. You said he was too scared when he was in the vehicle...

 

Which makes zero sense, since we all know he got out and stalked Trayvon.

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Response to Noid (Reply #99)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 08:44 PM

105. His gun? Nt

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Response to Noid (Reply #99)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:28 PM

132. Zimmerman didn't sound scared on his phone call with dispatch. He sounded angry.

Hence the whole "these assholes, they always get away" and "fucking punks" comments you heard on the dispatch call.

Zimmerman sounded frustrated on that phone call, noting he had previously reported suspicious individuals in the neighborhood (with the implication that nothing had happened to his satisfaction to address the situation). He saw Trayvon, figured he fit the profile (as a young black male) of people he believed to have been committing crimes in the neighborhood, and frustrated that "these assholes, they always get away", figured he'd get out of car and try to chase this "suspect" down and hold him until police arrived. And he knew he had a gun in his belt so that had to have emboldened him.

The problem was, Trayvon hadn't actually done anything wrong that evening, and was running simply because a strange man was chasing him for no apparent reason. And given that Zimmerman himself never said he identified himself to Trayvon before the altercation, if Zimmerman happened upon Trayvon and attempted to grab him to hold him for police, yeah you might expect someone to fight back with all their might.

But you have Zimmerman, who not only is probably raging because he thinks Trayvon's a criminal trying to evade him, but also has been in a major argument with his wife that day and she's left the house in anger. So he's pissed off. And it's dark and it's rainy and now this guy has punched him in the nose trying to resist him and they're tussling on the ground. And maybe he pulls a gun because he thinks that will cause Trayvon to stop "resisting" Zimmerman's self-perceived authority. But if that only causes Trayvon to scream for help (because having a gun pointed at you by a strange man who was chasing you for no apparent reason might cause one to panic and scream for help), it only makes Zimmerman even more angry. And we know he's a highly volatile person, and highly volatile people do snap. And I think Zimmerman snapped at that moment and pulled the trigger. He then quickly composed himself, still thinking that Trayvon was in fact a criminal intruder and therefore police wouldn't press too hard if he claimed he was only acting in self-defense. (And in fact, that's more or less what happened originally before public outcry demanded further investigation.)

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #132)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:46 PM

138. "try to chase the suspect down"

 

Tommy, what chase? Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and proceeded to walk after Martin. How did he plan on overtaking Martin by walking and talking on the phone? Did Zimmerman not presume that Martin was fleeing out the back entrance? With what he thought was foreknowledge of Martin's escape route, why didn't he drive down to the back entrance to attempt to cut Martin off?

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Response to Noid (Reply #138)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 04:18 PM

144. What evidence do you have to suggest that he "walked" after Martin?

Last edited Tue Sep 1, 2015, 03:52 PM - Edit history (1)

The dispatch call is here:



The time in which Zimmerman exits the vehicle to the point where the dispatch tells him not to follow is from 2:10 until 2:28. During that time, you'll notice that the wind noise becomes very significant consistent with air pressing up against the receiver at a fast pace. Also, Zimmerman's speech becomes more labored consistent with him running (as you'll notice by his barely audible "fucking punks" comment).

But most importantly, if Martin is running and Zimmerman wants to know what way he's going, why would he casually walk after someone who's running? He'd basically lose sight of him the moment he left the car.

My personal belief is that Zimmerman started chasing Trayvon, lost sight of him when Trayvon reached the top of the "T" of the dog walk. He's then told by dispatch that he doesn't need to follow Trayvon. But instead of returning to his car as dispatch assumed he would, he continued to snoop out the scene on foot in order to determine where Trayvon may have ran. (Hence, that's why Zimmerman first told dispatch to have police meet him at the car but then suddenly decided to change his mind and told dispatch to have police call him when they arrived). He probably went all the way out to Retreat View Circle (the far east street in the community), may have walked down to where the east street exit is in the community, and not finding Trayvon, began to walk back to the car.

Meanwhile, I believe Trayvon, in running from the strange Zimmerman (again, who is following and chasing him for reasons he doesn't know), probably ran down the dog walk between Two Trees Lane and Retreat View Circle in order to hide out for his safety (as it is darker than the lighted street areas). He probably waited there for several minutes (during which time I believe Zimmerman was searching the Retreat View exit area). Figuring after several minutes the coast was clear, he probably started back up the dog walk with the intention of heading over to Retreat View Circle to return home. (**Note: People often confuse the dog walk for a frontage street with street numbers and remark that if Trayvon made it to the dog walk, he was almost home. However, this was a back alleyway, it was dark, there were no street numbers on the back of the townhomes, and Trayvon not being that familiar with the neighborhood only having been there a few days might not have been able to recognize the Brandy Green townhome from the back. So it's quite likely he headed back up the dog walk to return to Retreat View and enter the home from the front entrance.)

I believe that it just happened that at the time Trayvon was walking up the dog walk, Zimmerman was heading back east towards his car, and that's where the final confrontation occurred. And it's important to point out again that Zimmerman never identified himself to Trayvon before the physical altercation between the two. And I hypothesize that Zimmerman may have attempted to grab Trayvon to detain him until police arrived, and Trayvon naturally resisted and attempted to fight off Zimmerman (still not having any idea who he was) and hence the physical altercation between the two started.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #144)


Response to Name removed (Reply #170)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 05:25 PM

171. He most likely got just past the T at the top of the Dog Walk.

At that point, the dispatcher told Zimmerman he didn't need to follow Trayvon, and Zimmerman himself admitted he had lost Trayvon.

At this point, if Zimmerman would have followed the dispatcher's suggestions, common sense dictates he would have headed back to his car and waited for police.

However, nearly a minute passes, and at the 3:14 mark Zimmerman says he has no clue as to what address he's parked in front of, so clearly he's not near his car. So he had 45 seconds from the time he's told he doesn't need to follow Trayvon to return to the car, and he doesn't return to the car.

But most notably, Zimmerman first tells dispatch to have police meet him at his car. But he does a sudden about face and tells them to give him a call when they arrive. Meaning that he doesn't expect to be at his car when they arrive, despite apparently losing Trayvon. Meaning he's still interested in trying to find Trayvon, even though he knows police are on the way and that he hasn't actually seen Trayvon do anything illegal.

He may have stopped running, but that didn't stop him from snooping around. He could have easily returned to his car but he was apparently hell-bent on trying to find out where Trayvon went.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #171)


Response to Name removed (Reply #174)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 06:23 PM

175. Zimmerman was parked at the cut-through on Twin Trees.

On the dispatch tape, you have "Shit, he's running" at around the 2:10 mark and the dispatcher telling Zimmerman not to follow at 2:28. So there's 18 seconds there. But then you figure he has to open the door, remove the keys, pocket the keys, exit the car, close the door, and navigate around the car before he gets anything of a sprint. So there's a few seconds off there, and we're looking at most a 15 second period of time where Zimmerman's actually running. How far can you run in 15 seconds?

And he's running, but he's not exactly Usain Bolt, plus he's carrying a phone and talking, so he's not 100% dedicating himself to running. So if he's lucky, he'll get to around the east end of the T towards Retreat View before he's told to back off and a normal person would have started back to the car. It's not as though he made it all the way down to the East entrance of the community. He could have easily returned to his car within a 45 second period at a leisurely walk.

And this is where it gets really problematic for Zimmerman's story. So at 2:28 he's told he doesn't need to follow Trayvon. He remains on the phone with dispatch roughly for another 1:45 seconds. Then it's estimated based on Jeantel's phone records and 911 calls that the physical altercation with Trayvon began about 2 minutes after Zimmerman hung up with dispatch. So if Zimmerman made it all the way to the east end of the T in that 15 second sprint from the car, and the altercation between Zimmerman and Trayvon occurred around the intersection of the T, if we are supposed to believe that Zimmerman intended to return to his car and had no intention of snooping around for Trayvon, it would have taken him 3 minutes, 45 seconds to travel a grand total of 40 or so feet before the fight started. Oh, and it's raining, and most people don't like to stand around too long in the rain if they don't have to.

That is literally unbelievable.

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Response to Noid (Reply #138)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 10:43 PM

159. Shut up

 

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:45 PM

107. Let's pretend person A is a white 22 year old woman from the nearby Air Force Base

who is jogging through the neighborhood park early one morning. She is confronted, face to face by Person B who grabs her in a threatening manner. Person A, a recent graduate from the Air Force Acadamy is well versed in defense techniques. There is a struggle; Person B winds up on the ground with a dislocated jaw and a an injury to his arm. He is still on the ground when the police arrive. The police turn all their attention to Person A because they are concerned about her well being and are just thrilled to death that her attacker (who, by the way, was also white) is laying on the ground in a stupor.

This really isn't a theoretical happening, it did happen to my cousin. She was minding her own business, was attacked by a creep, and defended herself. -- She was treated as a hero, Travyon Martin was treated as though he had been the criminal. Zimmerman's actions since the murder and his recent comment "We all know how it ended for the last moron who hit me." really should remove any reasonable doubt about who was the aggressor.

If this had happened in a state without that ridiculous "stand your ground" law, Zimmerman would be in prison.



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Response to hfojvt (Reply #66)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:34 PM

124. hfojvt: "Stonewall Jackson was one of my childhood heroes"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022236322#post20

he posts this type of nonsense all the time.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:49 PM

67. "lynch mob of the compassionate."

More of that masterclass hfojvt logic.

And would you like to explain to the class why you think "Trayvon is black and that is all that matters" is a phrase that has some place in liberal discourse? Maybe we can actually get you on the record.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #67)


Response to Post removed (Reply #86)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:56 PM

94. Your repeated self-victimizations as a lynching victim when discussing the death of a

Black boy are just the cherry on the racist sundae. Done talking to you--I have forwarded all of my concerns to the appropriate channels. Let the record show that if this poster is allowed to be here after this, it's because the Admins wanted him here. I wash my fucking hands of it.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #94)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:45 AM

112. I'm shocked that some people here can continue to post such racist crap.

 

I just put 2 people on ignore. I'm sure I'll be alerted on, but dammit, this kind of talk should not be tolerated on DU.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #94)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 03:45 PM

184. It has been a long time for him

"Holy crap man, you had all the cards in your favor, you had the lowest difficulty setting and you still lost. What a pathetic loser you are. (and by the way, don't forget to vote for us, because we care about you, you racist loser)"

Not only that, but because you have such a low difficulty setting, we are not gonna create any programs to help you. If you are a white male - YOYO (You're On Your Own)

The other part is that people seem to be claiming it is a low difficulty setting without having walked a mile in your shoes.

"all other things being equal" seems like a cop out too. It says to somebody in the 10th percentile. "Just ignore the 90% of the population which is economically better off than you are, because you are a white male, you are better off than those in the 10-15th percentile and thus you have 'privilege'." Apparently privilege over 5% trumps privation over 85% (that white skin, it's some powerful stuff).

I still say that is one fucked up definition of privilege, when I am privileged in the 10th percentile and Ellen Degeneres, Melissa Ethridge, Oprah Winfrey, Tiger Woods, etc.,etc., etc. are members of oppressed "groups". Yep, the guy making $20 million a year for playing golf is oppressed and the guy making $12,000 a year cleaning toilets is privileged.

Oh, I forgot, that last guy, he's just a complete screw up because with all of his privileges (and the straight A's that were apparently just given to him based on the color of his skin and his Y chromosome, and his university degrees (okay I did get one of those without going to very many classes)) he still ended up cleaning toilets.

-----

because if I talk about Oprah, or Tiger, everybody knows who I am talking about. If I talk about Chester, then nobody knows who I am talking about.

I could take some time to explain who Chester is, but it is much quicker and easier to just point to Tiger.

Here's who Chester is. He's an actual black male, who apparently was my nemesis. Not on purpose (I think) but there was a time when the last three jobs I applied for, were instead given to Chester. I applied for the full time janitor job at the place where I worked part time. Okay, first that was given to another black man, Layton. After about five weeks he was fired for not showing up every Friday. Then it was given to Chester. Then I applied for a job as dogcatcher. Chester also applied for it, and got that job. Then I applied for a janitor job at the Methodist church, and Chester got that job.

Strangely enough, I do not consider "not getting a job" to be some sort of privilege, but again, apparently I am part of a privileged "group" and Chester and Tiger and Oprah are part of an oppressed "group".

My point is very, very simple. In spite of the averages, the people in the first group do not all enjoy privileges any more than the people in the second group all experience oppression. If a statistical "reality" as you call it, does not translate to the personal, then it is not much of a reality, is it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002692549#post5

I don't ever like searching posters posts but his are pretty easy to find using terms and staff like that. Particularly like 'white privilege threads' which were memorable.

I think there is one working from memory something about janitor job where his boss his black, the mayor his black, everybody over him is black, the President is black and being screwed up losing out jobs apparently to Chester but overall you get the picture. I noticed the "compassionate lynching mob" in this context with "I get it, he's black" which seemed to be his issue rather than MrScorpio's.

I have noticed DU administrators for one reason or another, don't notice or see it but a lot of the undercover racists that were obvious to me but they'll not outright say it but develop a pattern. DKF was one like that and Meta-Discussion was the only way apparently she was banned because another site was found she contributes to like a self-blog where she was more straight up to the racism and there was little objection over that banning because of comments made somewhere else but for a lot of us it was a finally but don't know why they don't notice or take longer to react and ban based on those things.`

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:09 PM

85. Gee, your post is further down the thread than I expected but...

it's content is exactly what I expected, ugly to say the least.

Count me in your "lynch mob of the compassionate" unlike you of course.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #85)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:17 PM

88. ugliness, like beauty,

is in the eye of the beholder.

It's kinda hard for me to be in a lynch mob that is calling for MY neck, isn't it?

A quote from history

"Wabasha, Wacouta, myself and others still talked for peace, but nobody would listen to us, and soon the cry was "Kill the whites and kill all these cut-hairs who will not join us." A council was held and war was declared. Parties formed and dashed away in the darkness to kill settlers. The women began to run bullets and the men to clean their guns." "Through Dakota eyes" p 36

War is declared, of course, against the enemy, and also against all those not part of the war effort. Those who foolishly talk of peace.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #88)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:33 PM

90. Yeah, it is, when your posts lack any compassion...

it's clear why you would feel put upon by those who exhibit it, compassion and understanding, two words that should be forbidden it seems otherwise those who have it are "lynch mobs". BTW, using "lynch mobs" when mocking those with compassion over the murder of an unarmed black teen really is ugly.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #88)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 07:20 PM

100. Thank you very much

for making such a perfect example of your initial thoughts on this thread, for all to see.

And, as I am sure you are aware, very few here will actually see it. None are so blind as those who will not see.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #100)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 05:38 PM

146. so you agree with him, including his hidden post in this thread?

might as well make your thoughts plan for all to see here too.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #146)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 06:04 PM

147. You'd like that, wouldn't you?

Your shtick is so transparent.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #147)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 06:06 PM

148. no, i was hoping you'd disagree with him

but of course, no.

why? because you struggle to believe that racism against African Americans continues.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #148)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 06:29 PM

150. You just keep on

putting words into people's mouths and thoughts in their heads. I'm sure you enjoy it.

Bye, now.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #100)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 03:08 PM

162. Except for those who pretend that holding a different agreement is blindness.

" None are so blind as those who will not see...."

Except for those who pretend that holding a different agreement is blindness.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #88)


Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:40 PM

92. Wow. What a disgusting post.

 

You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 06:11 PM

96. LOL

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 10:03 AM

120. Disgusting. Yet not surprising.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 10:52 AM

122. A grotesque take on a horrible incident.

 

Not sure how you got to the point of holding that opinion, but I have narrowed it down to two possibilities.

It was first degree murder. He went out looking for it, then when he spotted the kid, he provoked an incident all the while loaded for bear. Pre-meditated murder, period, full stop.

Sucks to be you I'd say. My condolences.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:40 PM

127. How you are still here is a wonderment to the many.

 

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Response to Rex (Reply #127)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:42 PM

128. Indeed.

 

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Response to Rex (Reply #127)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:17 PM

130. Still here today too, one notices. :(

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #130)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:18 PM

131. IT is amazing to me really it is.

 

Like spitting on someones grave and then looking around and asking, "what? what did I do?"

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Response to Rex (Reply #131)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:30 PM

133. And criticizing the rest of us for not spitting because we are too compassionate

And then claiming the mantle of victimhood when, like normal humans, we ask wtf is wrong with him.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #133)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:32 PM

134. MO for that poster imo.

 

All that we really wished for was justice...I had no idea that was too much to ask for a young black teen walking home from the gas station with some munchies.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #149)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 06:40 PM

152. I trust you are keeping

my dossier up to date.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #152)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:18 PM

153. Actually I don't keep notes, or a dossier or files or anything

you're posting on a public message board made up mostly of people who disagree with you.

do you think it takes a lengthy notes or a complicated database notice that you stick out like sore thumb?

geez, i give some of you more credit for intelligence than you deserve.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #152)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:18 PM

153. Actually I don't keep notes, or a dossier or files or anything

you're posting on a public message board made up mostly of people who disagree with you.

do you think it takes a lengthy notes or a complicated database notice that you stick out like sore thumb?

geez, i give some of you more credit for intelligence than you deserve.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #153)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:31 PM

155. How do you know

how many people disagree with me?

How do you keep track? How many posts have I had hidden? How many alerts have I garnered? How many people disagree with me as opposed to you? Do you have admin access to this site's stats?

Come clean.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #155)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:27 PM

157. "Come clean"??? How do I know? Because you're agreeing with the guy everyone is disagreeing with

It's a qualitative observation. And you do it in my threads all the time.

You act like it takes a detective to see what you do.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #155)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:52 PM

158. There are 341 recommends for this thread that you thanked hfojvt for sh*tting in...

And you ask how do I know most people disagree with you.

Not the brightest bulb in the box...

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 04:14 PM

143. Your consistency is most admirable.

The consistency you illustrate in manufacturing your own exaggerated crosses from which to hang yourself from, while peevishly heralding the quick approach of disagreement as a "lynch mod", while certainly melodramatic and artificial, is satisfying in its uniformity.

And while you may have decided that mere disagreement is tantamount to a crucifixion, the rational mind knows that is not the case.



"But I get... we all love our crosses, and your crucifixion is all that matters..."

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #56)

Wed Sep 2, 2015, 03:01 PM

181. Still 1 left

which is a joke, personally, DUers I wouldn't around would here would be "cognitive infiltrators" otherwise I can deal with the rest but did you suggest Trayvon could have avoided the confrontation because he would likely to have sprinter speed due to his youth, gender, and ethnicity? I think so but for you I'd often seen you 'dare to disagree' in discussions on similar matters but trying to understand your logic. DKF a well known to me it was obvious to me, I didn't know how she or he evaded 'the system' for all those years but I guess Meta outed here but with what Scorpio said, obvious racist trolls that would also often defend officer related incidents but for the most part I haven't seen them around. The shooting of Michael Brown was their last stand overall but for a lot of the racist trolls/cop defenders right or wrong particularly when their wrong adopted Zimmerman as their defense for some reason. Though I never saw as a 'common cop defender' for this or that and obviously you are still here. For you I'd just stay and speak who you are which is all I hope from anyone.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002587612#post15

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:56 PM

58. You are correct, Mr Scorpio, GZ is a racist sociopathic stalker bullier murderer.

And that goes for all the scumbags who got him off of 1st degree stalking murder. Prison will be the only proper place for GZ.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:08 PM

59. K&R

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:13 PM

60. ..

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:15 PM

62. Excellent post

and I totally agree.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:17 PM

63. He is a lying murderous racist sociopath who benefited completely from the presumption of innocence

and a less than perfect prosecution. I'm with you, I'm convinced he was and is guilty.

Good on you for getting the racists to expose themselves!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:24 PM

64. Zimmerman is a vile, disgusting,

murdering, racist, piece of shit, worthless scumbag, confederate flag waving asshole ...I can't even look at a picture of that cockroach without being repulsed.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:53 PM

69. K&R. Well done OP. That racist, pork coward Zimmerman should be in solitary for life.

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #69)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:06 PM

70. Yeah seriously fuck that guy.

He's an asshole and deserves to be called out for it.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:10 PM

71. You were right then...

And you are right now.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:28 PM

72. K&R

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:35 PM

73. I would like to think

It was the start of opening some eyes. Some good has to come out of it.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:01 PM

76. Fucking A, MrScorpio. VERY well said.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:01 PM

77. Zimmerman deserves to be Zimmermanned himself. nt

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:18 PM

81. I am lookng forwards to the day Zimmerman pisses off or steps on the wrong set of feet

 

and FINALLY gets some justice served on his ass.

Yeah, yeah he is not guilty by the nature of the legal system, a legal system that is rigged and structurally racist. There, I said it.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:32 PM

83. Thank you.

That is true and well-said.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:13 PM

87. Mr. Zimmerman's lack of remorse IMO shows his guilt.

He pulled the trigger on the gun that killed Trayvon Martin. His appointment with the department of corrections is long overdue. Sadly most DOC's aren't that good in doing any actual corrections IMO. .

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:39 PM

91. Zimmerman is a disgusting lowlife lying scumbag.

 

And, yes, he should rot in prison.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 06:19 PM

97. So true. I remember reccing your threads.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 06:48 PM

98. I started quite a few too, when I was "Amerigo Vespucci."

Somewhere around the point where his attorneys claimed Trayvon gave him "shaken baby syndrome"...and that claim came very early...I pretty much figured we were dealing with something different here.

I think Zimmerman is destined to live out nine cat lives. Sooner or later he'll pull his "Do you know who the fuck I am" routine with the WRONG person, and they'll say "Yes, I do," and blow his ass straight to hell.

I just sense eventual closure on his story...poetic justice, "live by the sword, die by the sword," call it what you will. I don't see a guy who will live till 100, sitting on his porch in a rocking chair sipping lemonade and having a twinkle in his eye as he reflects on the good oold days, when he murdered an unarmed black teen and got away with it.

Life's going to take this boy down. I don't see it sas a matter of if, I see it as a matter of when.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 07:25 PM

101. Add Darren Wilson to the list of murdering psychopaths, RIP Michael Brown

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 07:56 PM

102. K&R

Thank you MrScorpio.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 08:26 PM

104. I always thought it was cold blooded 1st degree murder

He targeted trayvon, stalked him, pulled a gun on him and trayvon had a choice between defending himself or getting shot running away. Damn straight if someone is going to kill you, you're going to fight back. Zimmie thought he could kill him without the kid fighting for his life. Fuck the racists who defend the murderer.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:00 PM

106. In a just world he would be in prison

I'm sorry there were those who couldn't see Zimmerman for what he was. And more sorry that they couldn't see that Trayvon Martin deserved to live free from the paranoid fears of a man like Zimmerman.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 10:12 PM

109. I cried when I heard the verdict.

The lying, murdering sociopath should be in prison.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 10:56 PM

110. His actions since then have only driven home the point that hes a sociopath

who uses violence and the threat of gun violence to solve issues all the time and should be in jail. He also hates women, elderly people and minorities.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:28 PM

111. He has found his niche

Evidently he was jobless and homeless just a short while ago. But now he's found an audience that will buy his paintings and worship him at places like "Muslim Free Gun Ranges". Since Trump came along people have felt less pressure to hide their racism. If you look at who follows Zimmerman it's a collection of Nazis, white supremacists, and other odious racist people.

He feels he can do whatever he wants with impunity, even referring to himself as the "Teflon Juan". The funny thing is he could have said the same things at the trial as he's saying now and still wouldn't have been convicted. There was just no way the State of Florida was ever going to let him be convicted.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 05:28 AM

113. Zimmerman is a despicable human being, and my heart will be glad

when I learn of his demise.

I feel pretty confident he will be responsible for his own demise, at some point relatively soon.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 08:01 AM

115. +1000

Nothing about that asshole's story rang true.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:45 AM

117. Nailed it.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:47 AM

118. Glad to wake up and see over 300 recs

He is absolutely a lying, murdering sociopath who escaped justice after he stalked, assaulted, and murdered an innocent child. I agree 100%

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 10:31 AM

121. "If I Did it" (with "if" shrunken to invisibility)

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:10 AM

123. He's not just a psychopath

He's a well connected psychopath. The second I started seeing this guy being treated like a victim instead of a perpetrator I knew that this piece of garbage was gonna walk. Anyone else would have been cuffed and questioned downtown, but since this guy's parents work for the court system he gets the royal treatment.

This guy should be in jail, not threatening people on social media.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:39 PM

126. Me too, I was told to STFU and sitdown until all the evidence is in.

 

Sadly, those that need to stay banned are still here under alt accounts. The admins should have a zero tolerance policy toward people with alt accounts...especially when they get caught red handed!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:54 PM

161. Wow...

 

A big time racist in this thread. Dude should be banned .

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Response to trumad (Reply #161)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 03:54 PM

163. I actually enjoy the debate, like a cat enjoys a toy mouse.

They're so certain on the facts regarding Zimmerman's case and yet they are incredibly impervious to all logic when it comes to trying to comprehend Zimmerman's convoluted story.

Just once, I'd like to hear, "You know, you're right. His story doesn't make any sense at all."

I guess I'm still an optimist when I think one day I'll get such a response.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #163)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 04:01 PM

164. Well Tommy..

 

You kicked ass in this thread and I enjoyed it.

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Response to trumad (Reply #164)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 04:38 PM

168. Me, too!

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Response to trumad (Reply #164)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 04:40 PM

169. Thanks.

Unfortunately, if anyone gets MIRTed, I'll just look like I'm talking to myself.

That's why I'm in favor of letting them spew their nonsense in this very limited circumstance.

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Response to trumad (Reply #161)

Tue Sep 1, 2015, 04:38 PM

167. Two, actually.

Thanks, trumad!

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