It's perfectly clear that the ass who wrote those horrible letters to Bravenak has lost...

[MrScorpio]

I'm not totally convinced that the writer is right wing troll, because most of the time they couldn't a fuck about our internal conflicts, which occur all of the time and completely without their kindly assistance.

I truly believe that this is internal. Anyone can be a nasty ass, no matter which candidate they support. Is it a Bernie supporter or a Hillary supporter who wrote the letter? It really doesn't matter. Simply because one of our own has been attacked and most DUers, whether are Bernie or Hillary supporters are voicing their sympathy FOR Bravenak.

THAT is what matters. Not some convoluted, paranoid conspiracy theory, supposedly instituted by right wing stalkers.

As I've said, most of those assholes couldn't give a fuck.

I will say one thing though; if it was really a Bernie supporter, who according to the letter, has lot's of contempt for Black Lives Matter activists and the DUers who support them, they're really not doing their candidate any favors right about now.

The writer of the letter was very, very explicit about what they cared about and they cared about it so much that they even sent the exact same letter to her twice in order to reenforce their message. That should be noted.

A lot of people here are pissed off right now, especially me. Because some coward has attacked one of MY friends, and although I tolerate a lot of bullshit attacking me, it's worse to me when my friends are attacked. Something that I do no stand idly by and say nothing about.

At this point, as I've said, the letter writer has lost. Nobody is going to side with that asshole. No one. What would be best for them is to admit that they wrote the letter and take their lumps.

I've contacted Bravenak on Twitter and she has expressed much appreciation for the support that she's getting from her friends. The writer may think they they've hurt her, and if they do, they couldn't be more wrong. Bravenak is strong and she has loyal friends on HER side.

Since the word got out about those letters, she now has MORE friends and supporters on HER side.

So, yeah, the coward needs to confess. Because we don't need people like that around here at all.

One suggestion, it's pretty obvious whenever an opportunity to express sympathy and support for a fellow DUer is passed up, in order to promote CTs and BS. Don't think that that doesn't go unnoticed.

Thanks for your time…

And I Stand With Bravenak!

[ohheckyeah]

1. I'm just finding

out about this tonight. Another DUer was kind enough to pm links to what happened. I, too, stand with Bravenak! The letters were sent by a coward to someone who isn't...I hope that makes the sender as embarrassed as he/she should be.

[TDale313]

2. I have no idea where the letters came from...

And it's absolutely wrong, and I totally support Bravenak. And I hope whoever did this is exposed.

That said, I think you're mistaken on one point. It's my understanding there are conservative sites (like The Cave, for example) that pay a fair amount of attention to DU and its members. Forums discussing and tracking what's going on here and airing grudges against certain DU members.

[MrScorpio]

6. Did you read the letter? I read it and I didn't immediately get that reaction.

Because, I know those motherfuckers quite well, and the tone of that letter was not something that they would express. There was way too much anger expressed in it, towards Bravenak and her advocacy for #BLM and in behalf of support for Bernie.

These are OUR issues, not those of right wingers.

Sure, they'll sit on the side and moan and ridicule. But it took an INVESTED person to take the time and effort to write and send those letters to Bravenak.

The letter writer was very explicit about what they're invested in.

[Scootaloo]

18. To quote myself... "Never underestimate the persistence of bored sociopaths"

[TDale313]

19. I did read it.

And you may well be right. I don't know what their motives were. Frankly, I just find it absolutely sickening anyone would do this to her, and the implied threat of tracking down her address is frightening. I hope whoever did this is exposed.

[Juicy_Bellows]

26. Perhaps consider that was their intent all along?

They want the in-fighting and to further deepen the chasm - bridge burners of the highest order.

Divide and conquer like tactics - I think that was their ideal outcome and it's up to us to determine if they are successful or not.

I hope we take the high road, I'll strive to do my part.

Cheers!

[MrScorpio]

30. I'm taking the letter writer at their word...

And don't forget that we're ALREADY divided over the issue of #BLM and support for candidates, Bernie especially. It's a fact that no right winger had to do a damn thing in order for that internal conflict to happen.

I don't see the point of blaming them for our own fuck ups.

We need to own this shit.

[Juicy_Bellows]

33. Why, pray tell, take the letter writer at their word?

You and I have seen it, but here is the text of the letter, verbatim:

bravenak,

We grew tired of your race baiting bullshit against the only candidate that actually cares about the plight of minorities and the 99%. You and your fucking lying "I really like Bernie" bullshit. So you got 4 hides in one day. You deserved more.

When you come off suspension, you keep running your fucking mouth, guarantee you're going to get alerted on and suspended again. We'll make a point of it. There's a hell of a lot more of us than there is of you. So I suggest you dial it back a whole fucking bunch.

GO BERNIE!!!

Mr. Citizen
DU Member

Don't you think the author's intention is nothing but derision and in-fighting?

[MrScorpio]

37. I think that they're actively engaging in the kind of in-fighting that been done before

Don't forget that none of the outsiders had to incite a conflict over #BLM and Bernie. These are things that we have done to ourselves.

The writer is clearly siding against her support of #BLM.

[Juicy_Bellows]

39. I agree but the reason(s) why they would do that are numerous.

I believe their intent was/is to get us to fight each other.

Use your enemies weakness against them so to speak.

[MrScorpio]

97. I know the goat fuckers

That speculation is giving them way more credit than they deserve.

[steve2470]

105. "I know the goat fuckers"

bwahahahahahahaha too too funny! and so apt!

[lovemydog]

178. Reminds me of a joke.

[Juicy_Bellows]

119. Fair enough.

All I know is don't turn your back on a goat fucker!

[MrScorpio]

120. As long as I don't bleat, I don't sweat them…

But I do pity the poor goats.

[raven mad]

110. I still remember the original Obama in-fighting here, and I was just a lurker then.

Bravenak doesn't deserve this. #BLM doesn't deserve this. Period. It's not easy anywhere, but way up here with no real support? It's harder.

[JustAnotherGen]

68. Because the nonsense started

Before the primary season and BLM was the topic du jour at DU.

Goes back two years. Not just with bravenak - but others at DU who identify as black.


They no likey us uppity ones.

[smirkymonkey]

91. Wow! This is the first time I have seen it.

What a nasty piece of work!

[lostnfound]

102. Why would anyone take such a crazy jackass "at their word"? They are anonymous.

That's the awful thing about anonymous threats -- to get a threat but have no way of knowing WHO is behind it.

I understand the outrage completely, I hope whoever did this is caught and goes to jail for it. Whatever or whoever they claim to support, the only thing we know about them for sure is that they support anonymous dirty tricks.

I don't understand people being shocked that "a DUer would have done this". It makes as much sense as saying is being shocked that a brunette would have done this or a person named Richard could do this. It's easy enough to get a logon and start posting at DU. There are many fine people here, but there's no sanity check or judgment analysis done at the door.

May the perpetrator be found, so that bravenak can enjoy some peace of mind and calm.

And I sure hope 1SBM doesn't leave because I really enjoy his perspective.

[MrScorpio]

106. The letter was written in order to get a specific point across to the target, Bravenak…

Don't fuck with Bernie.

I'm not "shocked" that a current DUer more than likely wrote this, I'm basing my observation on the fact that I have plenty of experience here encountering the types of attitudes, motivations and opinions that are expressed by other members, as well as a somewhat sufficient knowledge at what drives our goat fucking stalker friends. The puzzles simply don't fit for the cave-dwellers… It's not their struggle.

Trust me, they are way more interested in figuring out what kind of mascara and lipstick to buy for their caprinaen lovers than caring about a conflict between #BLM activists and The Bernster. Speculating that the letter is some kind of RW plot is giving them way more credit than those, ill-tempered, juvenile was nevers deserve.

That letter was written by someone who feels that they have a vested interest in maintaining an on-going conflict with Bravenak, despite her unavailability for the moment.

[polly7]

108. I hope she's conversing with the Admins here

and letting them know who she's had a lot of problems with, it might make it easier to find some kind of hint on who did this, if they were from here. It was a cowardly, bullying, slimy thing to do ... especially to someone with small children for whom it would be even more frightening. I dealt with it up close and personal, stalking of any kind is horrible. I don't think I've ever took part in a thread with Bravenak, though I may have ... but it sounds like she's a wonderful person who certainly did nothing to deserve any of this.

[Marr]

143. That's pure speculation on your part.

Only one person can say what the real intent of that letter was. And I'm sorry, but you don't have any deeper insight into the minds of right-wing assholes than anyone else. It's completely reasonable to think some twisted idiot might seek to sow discord in ways like this. Or hell, even a Hillary supporter. People do bizarre things.

[notadmblnd]

145. I remember the backword "B" girl

You was just a young crazy thing. I don't remember anything saying what happened after she admitted it was a hoax.

[davidpdx]

71. I also support Bravenak and think what the person did was terrible

But as to your assertion that it was a DUer, we don't know for sure. You can state opinion or your feelings, but unless the authorities are able to track the person down it is hard to pinpoint who it was. I would rather see people putting the energy into being supportive of Bravenak and helping her to remove any information that could lead to her from the internet then this kind of stuff. I'm not saying don't be angry, I'm saying we need to let the authorities do their job. I believe they will find out who this was.

[Cha]

89. I agree, MrScorpio.. you are absolutely right.. this is internal shite.. that letter was way too

specific. I've seen ratcheted up venom on this board directed at #BlackLIvesMatter Activists.

And, just to put the letter Bravenak got in the mail down here so they know exactly what we're talking about.. no way was this not a BS supporter who went off the cliff into the abyss.. and all he got for his vengeance on a Black Woman who's censored on DU .. was nothing but shame and hopefully will get caught.. and then what will happen?

"We grew tired of your race baiting bullshit against the only candidate who actually cares about the plight of minorities and the 99%. You and your fucking lying "I really like Bernie" bullshit. So you got 4 hides in one day. You deserved more.

When you come off suspension, you keep running your fucking mouth, guaranteed you're going to get alerted on and suspended again. We'll make a point of it. There's a hell of a lot more of us than of you. So I suggest you dial it back a whole fucking bunch.

GO BERNIE!!!"

Mr Citizen
DU Member

1StrongBlackMan http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=24424

[bvar22]

133. I believe you far underestimate ..

...the possibility probability of a False Flag scheme,
or the fact that most anonymous letter stalkers tend to LIE in their missives.

[MrScorpio]

139. If this were a false flag scheme there would be clues to show it is…

But, I haven't seen anything specific that holds up under any scrutiny to point to such a thing.

At this point, alleging a false flag is nothing more than grasping at straws.

[Marr]

144. How on earth do you figure that?

'If this were a false flag scenario, there would be clues?'

This isn't an episode of Scooby-Doo.

Claiming to know this is a false flag scenario would be grasping at straws, absolutely. But assuming an anonymous, taunting threat like this one was meant as an honest conveyance of the stalker's political leanings is no less of an assumption. We can reasonably assume that a taunting/threatening letter was sent. But that's about it.

[MrScorpio]

146. I'm a trained observer…

I served in the USAF as a personnel tech for twenty-two years. Reading things and assessing them was my job.

Part of my job was also to do background investigations on people assigned to nuclear surety assignments.

In the last ten years, since my retirement, I've been on this site day in and day out, assessing what I've read in other DUers' posts, assessing our detractors, assessing how privilege mechanisms work and how they're applied.

I'm quite confident that I can break that letter down to it's individualized constituents, because to me, all of the clues are glaringly obvious. As a matter of fact, I just may do that.

[Marr]

151. Confident speculation is still just speculation.

It is impossible to make any sort of firm statement on the motives or identity of the sender based on the information available. It could certainly be some rabid Bernie Sanders fan. It could also be a right-wing troll. It could be a Hillary supporter. It could be someone from a site like 4chan, where they have a history of both doxing and screwing with sites like DU for kicks.

We don't know.

[bvar22]

150. When was that made a rule....

That anonymous False Flag scams must contain obvious clues?
I hadn't heard that one, but will take it under advisement.

The BIGGEST clue right now is....Cui Bono?

[Chitown Kev]

9. Well, Mr. Scorpio did not absolutely state

that it wasn't a RW troll...he simply said that he wasn't convinced that it was.

I've been on the wrong side of some supposedly "liberal" or "progressive" whites (and that's an assumption I'm making with these specific threats) and they can get every bit as nasty as your typical RW troll.

[TDale313]

22. absolutely true. n/t

[Chitown Kev]

3. Inasmuch as I've read

all of the goings-on with this incident, I'm not convinced that this was a right-wing troll either.

and then all of the alerts on various posts in the AA Group thread?

Thing is, internet stalking is bad enough but this...?

[sheshe2]

11. Hey Chitown.

I agree with you. The incidents are related. Every thread on bravenak being alert stalked was alert stalked. It was an inside job.

[Chitown Kev]

16. Yes, I am very familiar

with these "bat-signal" type of attacks on disliked AA posters and commenters over at DK.

[sheshe2]

27. I don't do DK.

Yet they do indeed swarm. Sort of like the "bat signal".

I have been very upset, bravenak is my friend. The members of Af Am are my friends. The abuse on a Democratic board is appalling.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. The bat signal is not limited to your friends

and some of us have been screaming about it as well. It has to stop... period!

[MrScorpio]

17. Bingo, Cuz nt

[NBachers]

4. I get topic-overload around here sometimes, but there can't be enough threads supporting Bravenak.

I'm on Hillary thread overload; I'm on Bernie thread overload; I'm on Trump overload; and there are other topics around here that I just don't want to jump into.

The most important topic around here right now, in my opinion, is to express support for Bravenak, and condemn the stalker. The alert-fault here at DU is cracking this place wide open, and I believe that we'll devise a way to de-claw the alert stalkers.

Thank you, Mr. Scorpio, for your expressions of support, and for giving us a forum to express our support, too.

I stand with Bravenak.

[Cha]

90. +!!!!!!!!! I agree, NBachers.. there can't be enough threads to support Brave

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. And I am not totally convinced it is somebody from here

it is not a CT theory to say that some lovely people at certain sites have dossiers on many of us... because that is actually happening.

And it is not a CT theory to say they have done damage, real damage to people here. You were not here for the Andy Stephenson Saga, I was. I will be brutal. The Freepers who engaged in that, killed Andy. Yup. you read that right. They killed him.

The cliffs notes, because that took months, Andy was very sick and needed money for medical treatment. It was raised. Some of those people contacted the hospital. and told them the money was obtained though sketchy means... and the hospital refused both the money and to treat Andy.

There have been many, many, many other less well known incidents. I can tell you that I have some of those lovely people IP banned and they are one reasons RSD is manually moderated.

It is also not a CT theory to say that whoever did this... deserves a fine day in court if the US Attorney decides to charge. (And I hope they do)

And I have contacted her elsewhere and told her where all the easy to fix now, holes in her social media profiles are to at least try to avoid more of this... in the near future.

[MrScorpio]

12. I should add that in my conversation with her on Twitter today...

She's not convinced a right winger sent her those letters. Although I'm not at liberty to completely explain why, it's also her impression that they came from within and not our right wing stalker friends.

Although I won't take it to the point of speaking for her, I suggest that you contact her on Twitter. I'm sure that she'll corroborate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I understand.

To me it just reeks... and I have one more thing, The signature. Will PM you

[d_r]

55. One thing to remember

"Our right wing stalker friends" ARE "within."

[ms liberty]

67. This^^^^ n/t

[yardwork]

69. Yes. Anybody can sign up on DU.

[Dorian Gray]

66. This is all true

and very sad.

Whatever the reasons for the person who sent a letter to Bravenak's home, it was unwarranted and creepy. Whether they are a right wing troll or a left wing Bernie Sanders supporter, it's really beyond the pale. Ick and ugh.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. Or just a poster pretending to be a Bernie supporter

years of media...never ever take anything at face value...there might be something else going on than the surface level.

What
Why
When
How
What is to be gained.

These are basic questions. Plug answers for all (and try to do it without a partisan bias). We did this yesterday for all possibilities. We included Bravenack because I guarantee the Postal Insoector will do that too.

The what is to be gained we came up with a consistent one answer, excep the victim, that is the one with no payout. (Street cred is no payout even if my local DA loves to use it)...so that one is discounted on those grounds. There is far more to lose, including a job...and no payout at all.

The payout with the rest was further dividing democrats, perhaps even, driving so many people off a site that it would have to rebuild traffic to justify it's existence. The ultimate goal is to destroy liberals in general and the island in particular. Yeah HRC supporters come on top, but that is a very short gain.

Could it be a DU'er? Yes, we have had incidents in the past. I just doubt it was an actual Sanders supporter (What is to be gained) ...we also have more than a few from those sites who are members here. So he might be telling the truth that way. Yeah, yeah, technically would be a member...but.

Regardless. This person needs to learn you don't do that. This person is quite the racist troll...like the real deaL...not what some people think of members here...and a tad fixated.

Why I worry about her actual safety.

[OilemFirchen]

112. You should also remember...

that a prominent, well-liked and heavily-supported DUer was a (or perhaps the) catalyst for this tragic affair and that she had a large following right up to the bitter end.

Some of those followers are still here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. Hey look you could be describing me

she is far from the only one with a fan club. That is a problem that the owners have yet to come to grips with.

I have been alert stalked since juries came and bullied relentlessly for almost all my time here. Some of us develop ahem...very nasty followings. So yes...you might say this makes me take that piece of data and somewhat put it lower in the priority chain.

[MrScorpio]

141. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assure you and everyone else that you're not a suspect

At least not with either Bravenak or myself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. Thanks... still pocking

becuase I want to get to the bottom of this. This is an attack on the DU family. (Fan club notwithstanding)

[Cleita]

147. Here's something I found out on Andy Stephenson for those who don't remember.

http://horsesass.org/andy-stephenson-1961-2005/

One of the more reaffirming internet stories of the past year was that of the way the online community rallied to the aid of Seattle voting rights activist Andy Stephenson, raising $50,000 in 11 days to pay for surgery to treat his pancreatic cancer. One of the more disturbing internet stories of the past year was the way some vile righties deflated the feel-good story — and successfully slowed both donations and Andy’s treatment — by launching a vicious, heartless smear campaign charging that Andy scammed his donors by faking his illness.

Well, I suppose Andy has once again proven his detractors wrong. He died Thursday at the age of 43.

I never met Andy, and was only peripherally aware of him and his activities. From all accounts he was a great guy, and a tireless activist. I share my sincere condolences with his family and friends.

More at link:

What many may not know, there were piles of intimidating tactics used, blaming certain groups at DU for what happened. The numerous posts are way too deep into the archives to recover. None of it was true. It was a group of outsiders led by a former DUer who had been kicked off the board once it was discovered she was using Andy's political activism to scam other activists to donate to her voting action website which she used as her personal bank account. When caught she led the vicious campaign to discredit Andy instead and probably caused his death.

This trying to use Bernie supporters to intimidate Bravenak is not new. I do not believe it for a moment Bernie supporters did this but some disgruntled troll, maybe an ex-member of DU, who not only wanted to scare Bravenak but take down Bernie supporters as well because it would be fun.

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. And most of the people who were here during that have since left

why this is so damn familiar to the few of us who were.

It was an ugly period...

Rest in Peace Andy... I just hope people quickly realize whoever is behind this, is laughing since it worked AGAIN.

[joshcryer]

7. Yeah, I'm glad no CTs have blown up.

The disavowing is good stuff. I don't even really mind the deflection.

But DU would be truly lost if it couldn't agree on something like this.

[JI7]

8. i think it's someone who may have had problems with race issues even before Sanders

i would say to look through the threads on race which bravenak participated on. the person most likely has problems with her and other black posters going back .

[sheshe2]

13. I read many of them.

I could point you to a few. Yet I can't. I would get a hide.

[JI7]

23. yeah, the reason i don't think it's just some fanatic sanders supporter

who is upset over the candidate is there are others they would more likely go after .

why target bravenak ? there are many others who are far worse in criticism and attacks on sanders. but race issues is where she has one of the strongest opinions and is most outspoken . this goes back some years . it's nothing recent. and she has been getting attacked over it for a while now.

this doesn't mean the person is not currently supporting sanders. but my point is the person is much more of a threat and it's much more scary than if it was some fanatic candidate supporter.

the tone came off as bitter and resentful as many racists are.

a few i'm thinking of don't really make OPs but they often have some bitter hateful response in the threads.

i'm going to try to look back on some of these .

[MrScorpio]

14. Excellent reasoning… nt

[Starry Messenger]

10. Bravenak is absolutely as sweet as pie, and didn't deserve hate mail sent to her house.

Even if a DUer had sent hate mail to another person about something else, this is still stalking and very overly involved in what goes on here. Imagine getting some kind of creep mail in your post--I can't, this whole thing is very toxic.

I stand with bravenak.

[grasswire]

20. wrong

They DO care very much about the everyday workings of DU. They are obsessed with every post here. There are whole message boards filled with their daily observations.

So it's more logical to think it was one of those hoodlums (considering their past history of harming DU-ers) than it is to think someone here in DU did the deed.

That said, many of them are DU members too, trolling hard. So there's that duality possible.

[MrScorpio]

25. I've mentioned this before and it's based on my conversation with her...

That's not her position either that the wingers are primarily involved.

Based on her past experiences on the site, she thinks that the letter expressed the writer's true intentions and allegiances.

[Ghost in the Machine]

43. It very well could be a *member* of DU, but not really a *DU'er*...

I used to keep an eye on the "cave dwellers" and the "CUmmies" and have read many, MANY posts of theirs where they brag about having long-term, high post count moles here. One even bragged about having a mole that was a moderator. I wouldn't put it past them at all.

I haven't been to their sites in a long time now.. like over a year or longer, maybe 2 years, because quite frankly I just don't give a damn what they say, think or feel anymore. In MY mind, mainly because I don't know any of them personally, it's nothing but words on a screen. I had one incident several years ago where I got a PM from someone that just mentioned my home town. It was something like "Xxxxx TN, huh?", which was on my profile at the time so not hard to figure out where they got the info. Let one of them show up at my house though, and it would be a different story... probably with a LOT different ending than they had written in their mind. I'll just leave it at that so I don't get myself in trouble

So yeah, it could be a *member* here, but not a real *DU'er* who has Democratic, Progressive and/or Liberal thoughts and values, but rather a mole that is used to burrowing in the dirt and being near the bottom of the food chain. Simple vermin!

Peace,

Ghost

[bettyellen]

122. there are loads of "respected" DUers that slam every Dem out there as well as BLM and post RW CTs...

I think the trolls are blending in and even having an influence on the discourse here. Not hard to imagine this came from a member here, but likely not someone who will vote Dem in the end.

[kcr]

107. I thought the same thing. No reason it can't be both.

I think it sounds like someone who participates regularly at DU, but of course no way to know for sure just by reading it.

[lovemydog]

21. Agree. I stand with bravenak too.

I miss her here and look forward to seeing her posts again soon. She has expressed appreciation for the outpouring of support here.

On a funny note. In the past day I've learned that when anyone mentions Occam's Razor they will immediately follow with some godawful foolish speculation.

[OilemFirchen]

113. I would have thought that 800 years would be ample time to gain an understaing of a simple concept.

Some people are just slow learners, I guess.

[lovemydog]

132. I'm introducing Occam's Twin Blade Razor™

It's more smooth and you keep buying cartridges from me.

[OilemFirchen]

134. I've long spoken of my Occam Strop....

for those who persist in "explaining" Occam's Razor to me. I use it to smack them on the forehead.

I see that one of threads in which I stupidly engaged these dull wits has morphed into the Argument Clinic. I didn't go there for an argument, but it looks like a few signed up for "being-hit-on-the-head" lessons.

What a stupid concept.

[lovemydog]

138. I'll try the Occam Strop

when someone follows their pedantic explanation with idiotic advice wrapped in preconceived prejudice.

Whack!

I'll hit myself in the forehead to remind me it's time to go for a walk.

[steve2470]

24. yes, the idiot stalker lost, Bravenak WON long-term

At first I thought it was probably one of those fools obsessed with DU on another site, but after reading through this thread, it could very well be someone with, um, issues she's butted heads with. I hope we find out soon, and justice done in all ways.

[roguevalley]

28. I loathe this kind of thing. Going into someone in the real world and affecting them

with menacing crap is garbage. If someone here feels that is the way to go, they need to go.

[ellisonz]

29. I don't know who sent that crap.

I also don't know if they will ever be found somehow.

Having experienced two primaries before, I think it's fair to say the division of DU into disproportionate camps has made this one far more toxic than past campaigns. Some of that is due to the issues, but a lot of it is due to a lack of moderation. The jury system just doesn't replace what DU1 and DU2 were like in moderation, it's devolved responsibility and the result is both positive and negative. DUers have more involvement, but they know that they can beat the odds.

If there's one real takeaway it's that whomever did this knew they could exploit tensions on DU. It's pure maliciousness rather than vigorous debate. I'm with Clinton, but I have personal respect for Sanders. That should be the DU standard.

[MrScorpio]

31. I don't feel comfortable expressing support for any of the primary candidates

Or even my observations about them.

We've got a year to go before we pick our nominee and it can't come too soon for me.

[ellisonz]

48. Sir, you are very deliberative!

Whomever did this, I hope one day they face The Magistrate!

I hope our nominee no matter what has the full force of the Democratic Party behind them, the Republicans deserve no better than the wrath of the voters at the ballot box. The best way to prevent electoral chicanery is by thorough advocacy and preparation.

[Fumesucker]

56. I never felt that moderation was any more fair than the jury system

The mods let a quite obvious troll, Operation Mind Crime, get away with being remarkably nasty for years, when he was finally outed as a troll he went back to FR and bragged about how badly he fooled the DUmmies.

Also the fairly obvious troll LoZoccolo lasted all the way through the moderator era but was nailed by the jury system.

[ellisonz]

59. Those guys were in it for the long-con.

Knowing that everything you post on DU can be monitored by trained staff is very different from the judgment of randomly and anonymously polled DU members. It's about accountability, which is what you're suggesting failed in those cases. I remember both those posters and they walked a very fine line.

[Fumesucker]

60. I can't recall if OMC was booted before or after the jury system

But LoZoccolo was definitely here into DU3..

And in my view OMC was blatantly trolling for years, a major league asshole.

You'd better believe it.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

101. Lozocolo was booted for threatening to lock good threads if he didn't get his way....

.... in locking threads he deemed "anti-Obama"

He was allowed to be a complete asshole out in the forums but when threatened to gum up the works in hosts, skinner banned him.

He's been back.

Honestly, after typing this post, it occurred to me this is something a mayhem troll like lozocolo would absolutely to. Even more likely, OMC.

To say these trolls don't care about our internal struggles makes zero sense. If I'm not mistaken, the op has been over there fighting with the cave idiots so he should know.

I think it's beyond naive to think the cavers wouldn't know how or have a desire to cause maximum mayhem by going after a beloved AA duer. It's no secret her time out is a huge point of contention among the Bernie/Hillary factions. Look at all the avatars with Bravenak silenced gifs.

[ellisonz]

118. You're no spring chicken either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022039820#post7

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. He finally was booted when he crossed

the almost non existent line with this piñata.


(And a few others behind the scenes). I will be honest, the day he was booted...I breathed a great sigh of relief.

[whatchamacallit]

129. What a run those guys had...

I agree tho, while it can be assumed some jurors are likely to bring their personal and political biases into the process, the mods did too. Sometimes blatantly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. We will vote, for whom it's our business.

I do not post here our primary coverage. Some people might get angry at the reporting on polls, for example.

[ellisonz]

126. ...

Vote for Democrats.

Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. And... As media we do not take sides.

But when Quinnipac came out the way it did..that is significant.

[pnwmom]

32. Considering she's on a timeout because a bunch of alerters and jury members

were offended by her posts, I think it is more likely than not that the letter did come from a disturbed DUer, and probably a Bernie supporter, based on the content of the letter.

Anytime there is a group as large as DU, there are going to be some people with serious behavioral problems within. This doesn't reflect on DU or on Bernie supporters, who comprise the large majority of people here. It's just the result of DU being constituted of a very large, diverse group of people. So there are going to be some bad apples.

There is no reason DU should be exempt from the problems that women are encountering in online forums everywhere, as disappointing as it is to see.

http://time.com/3305466/male-female-harassment-online/

Rape and death threats made by strangers are also common, however. They coexist online with violent sexist, racist commentary on Twitter, YouTube and Facebook and the sharing of gifs, images, jokes and memes depicting gross violence against women as “humor.” The “humor” can sometimes spill over into aggressive cyber mob attacks, which, as Citron explains in her book, disproportionately target women and people of color. These mobs include hundreds, sometimes thousands of people, systematically harassing their targets. #Slanegirl, a trending global public shaming of a teenage girl filmed performing fellatio is one example. Attacks on public figures like Anita Sarkeesian or Caroline Criado-Perez can take on surreal qualities whose effects can’t be underestimated—either on the individual attacked or on the environment.

http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170

A woman doesn’t even need to occupy a professional writing perch at a prominent platform to become a target. According to a 2005 report by the Pew Research Center, which has been tracking the online lives of Americans for more than a decade, women and men have been logging on in equal numbers since 2000, but the vilest communications are still disproportionately lobbed at women. We are more likely to report being stalked and harassed on the Internet—of the 3,787 people who reported harassing incidents from 2000 to 2012 to the volunteer organization Working to Halt Online Abuse, 72.5 percent were female. Sometimes, the abuse can get physical: A Pew survey reported that five percent of women who used the Internet said “something happened online” that led them into “physical danger.” And it starts young: Teenage girls are significantly more likely to be cyberbullied than boys. Just appearing as a woman online, it seems, can be enough to inspire abuse. In 2006, researchers from the University of Maryland set up a bunch of fake online accounts and then dispatched them into chat rooms. Accounts with feminine usernames incurred an average of 100 sexually explicit or threatening messages a day. Masculine names received 3.7.

There are three federal laws that apply to cyberstalking cases; the first was passed in 1934 to address harassment through the mail, via telegram, and over the telephone, six decades after Alexander Graham Bell’s invention. Since the initial passage of the Violence Against Women Act, in 1994, amendments to the law have gradually updated it to apply to new technologies and to stiffen penalties against those who use them to abuse. Thirty-four states have cyberstalking laws on the books; most have expanded long-standing laws against stalking and criminal threats to prosecute crimes carried out online.

SNIP

Feminine usernames incurred an average of 100 sexually explicit or threatening messages a day. Masculine names received 3.7.

Meanwhile, Twitter issued a blanket statement saying that victims like Criado-Perez could fill out an online form for each abusive tweet; when Criado-Perez supporters hounded Mark Luckie, the company’s manager of journalism and news, for a response, he briefly shielded his account, saying that the attention had become “abusive.” Twitter’s official recommendation to victims of abuse puts the ball squarely in law enforcement’s court: “If an interaction has gone beyond the point of name calling and you feel as though you may be in danger,” it says, “contact your local authorities so they can accurately assess the validity of the threat and help you resolve the issue offline.”

[Cha]

92. "Considering she's on a timeout because a bunch of alerters and jury members were offended

by her posts, I think it is more likely than not that the letter did come from a disturbed DUer, and probably a Bernie supporter, based on the content of the letter."

Exactly, pnwmom.. those trying to blame it on CC dwellers are in denial of the reality of what's going on . Bravenak has had this whole experience and she thinks it's like this.

I trust her to know what's going on.

Thank you, Good points!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. Is the letter posted?

[MrScorpio]

40. Check this out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=24424

[Spitfire of ATJ]

51. Someone is obviously taking this place WAY too seriously.

I'm known to take things to PMs (Because it's not cool to ridicule people publicly) but I would NEVER invade someone's real world like this. This makes one wonder if you should soak the next package delivery in a bucket of water before opening it.

[Suich]

46. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128048684

[Spitfire of ATJ]

52. A song comes to mind....

[deutsey]

76. If this is not a RW troll

then whoever wrote it needs to step away from the computer and politics for awhile and take a long, thoughtful look at themselves and what they've become.

[polly7]

80. + a million.

I was stalked in RL also, but from up close, and it's a horrible thing to go through. Having little ones at home would just make it more frightening. Whoever did this is slime, no matter who they are or what they're trying to accomplish.

[ismnotwasm]

38. I agree completely

The tone, the pointed directed message--at a vocal, particular member, the actual stalking--to me this isn't a RW troll.

[Generic Other]

41. Beneath contempt

not the first time we saw this kind of crap on DU. Andy's death was hastened by scum who prevented the funds DUers collected from being released. They are still posting about DUers daily over at the cave place.

Freepers got a DUer fired from his DJ job when Reagan died because he talked about playing songs to mock his passing.

they got another fired for hiding the remotes at a car dealership to prevent folks from turning on Fox. they are fixated.

I want to believe only these lowlife would intimidate a woman by mailing veiled threats. the actions of a real coward if you ask me. I would like to think Most DUers would be more inclined to start heated discussions rather than alert stalk and act like tattle tales in a schoolyard, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

I have no patience for people who alert rather than engage. losers every one. Bravenak, 1SBM, I stand with you too. Enough of this crap.

[JustAnotherGen]

57. A point I have to disagree with

I would like to think Most DUers would be more inclined to start heated discussions rather than alert stalk and act like tattle tales in a schoolyard, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118725212

Now I'm not under any circumstances calling the two individuals in that thread tattle tales -

But it shows - that people who are frustrated with our empathy and concern - are well frustrated that perhaps they couldn't get a thread hid? One of them - I engaged on July 1st (the only time they posted in our group all year was to throw a mild tantrum about meta???? ) and explained clearly I didn't 1. Engage in Meta when it existed and 2. If threads discussing treatment of AfAm members at DU we're allowed in our group.

They seriously don't want to engage in discussion when -

A. They never participate in a group

And

B. Only show up to put their boots on the necks of our members for not doing as they are told by them (not told - because neither attempted to engage in a discussion).

[Generic Other]

111. It seems clear to me that outspoken DUers and AA DUers are being targeted

A mob mentality. Whether lone wolves, group actions or griefing trolls, it is disgusting. How dare anyone alert on anything but the most egregious incivility? Perhaps rules should be changed to reflect in one's profile how many alerts one has made and which forum one alerts in most.

I personally am sick of the use of informers on this board. An average of 50-60 alerts a day? Disgusting. Alerters seem to believe they are doing something useful when all they really seem to do is exert control and power over others based on this ability to control discussions. Most of us do not want them to do this. Only the obvious trolls and those who engage in personal attacks on other DUers should be alerted. Skinner himself said we were a community and needed to establish standards. Well my standard says if someone is alerting on posts more than once a week (maybe even a month), they do it too often! I am tired of them butting in to other people's discussions. Maybe the people who are wronged in alerted posts should be asked to weigh in on jury decisions. As it is, they have no opportunity to defend themselves. That is not justice. Often the ones alerted posters are arguing with are the last to wish a post hidden as they prefer to continue the discussion rather than slap someone down that they disagree with.

In a protected group, anyone who comes in to comment should consider themselves guests and behave accordingly or be banned.

It seems like more and more DUers are leaving our board because they are tired of this constant drama caused by so much infighting.

[geek tragedy]

42. Note that the initial thread in the AA group

revealing that thread was both trolled and alert-stalked, getting two AA members put on timeout.

Seems more likely than not this was an actual DUer.

You can look at the alerts for a short list of suspects.

[Cha]

95. Exactly.. those trying to pin this on an outsider aren't fooling anyone.

[Generic Other]

116. The problem is that anyone can sign up to DU

This means those who do not share our progressive politics can easily sign up for accounts. They brag about the grief they cause us at the other site. They bragged for years about infiltrating the old mod system. I have no doubt they do generate alerts and skew jury results. Maybe we should have a DU thread where all posters vow not to use alert, but rather engage and defuse? And we should vow that if we are called to jury a decision, LEAVE IT will be our personal default? That a HIDE will not be used except in the worst cases? Most of us are capable of debating issues, not engaging in personal attacks.

The thread where the two AA members were put on timeout was clearly an example of how the jury system is being gamed by some creepy people around here. That much is certain. I have never before seen a thread where the OP had to delete it to keep others from alerting on posts! Awful behavior on DUs part.

I guess this is why I start many replies to posts that I end up deleting these days. I don't feel like it's worth the effort.

[Rex]

135. My thoughts exactly.

Been following this and I found that odd, how trolled and alert stalked that thread was getting in the AA group - so the admins must know who they are. Now there might not be a way to pair up the letter with those that alert stalked, but like you said - that has to be a short, short list.

I initially wanted to say it was a Cave Loser and it probably IS...but one that has an account on DU that has not been caught yet. I hope the admins can piece this together and nail the shit out of the perp(s).

[azurnoir]

44. Hoping Bravenak is well and a suggestion one that I will also bring to AtA

perhaps the protected groups should be run on the old moderation system with the Hosts having the power to delete comments and the main forums be run as DU3, don't know if running both softwares is possible though

[yuiyoshida]

45. I stand with Mr.Scropio and Bravenak

Bravo, Mr. SCORPIO!

[mhatrw]

47. I'm inclined to believe that the culprit is whoever best advances my political agenda.

How about you?

[Mister Ed]

49. There are two separate matters here - one is everything, the other is minor.

That our sister, our DU family member, our human family member, has been threatened in her home - that is everything. That is of colossal importance.

Giddy speculation as to the motives of the stalker is trivial, by comparison. Your post has made me stop and think, and feel a certain regret that I devoted even two lines of text to such speculation while voicing my support of Bravenak. There is another time for that.

In that time, the guiding principle should be the prevention of such attacks on others who speak out. And in working to prevent such attacks, we should bear in mind that CoIntelPro was no conspiracy theory.

[akbacchus_BC]

50. Just found out that Bravenak got threatening letters, that is so appalling.

I have no idea when this injustice is going to end, just a day before as you know, a US Tennis Star got handcuffed for mistaken identity for a white collar crime and mistaken identity, which does not necessitate such horrible police brutality. Thank goodness he cooperated, otherwise, like the others, he could have been shot by the police. This shit has got to end!

[stonecutter357]

53. I stand with Bravenak

[Surya Gayatri]

54. Thank you, MrScorpio, for saying this on behalf of all of us...

I STAND WITH BRAVENAK

And, with 1STRONG BLACK MAN, for that matter. In fact, with anyone who has been or is being harassed on this board for their ideas.

[CreekDog]

58. I have a question about something you said in your OP

One suggestion, it's pretty obvious whenever an opportunity to express sympathy and support for a fellow DUer is passed up, in order to promote CTs and BS. Don't think that that doesn't go unnoticed.

so the options are:

first way: support fellow DUer
second way: don't support a fellow DUer
third way: don't support and suggest CT and BS explanations instead

[Jappleseed]

61. The letter is having it's intended effect.

It was supposed to be posted here and suppose to divide us even more. Why let the disruptive and disturbed troll win?

Time to come together, and all everyone does here is finger point. Seems to be a common occurrence here, and what made the letter so effective. We are our own worst enemies.

[MrScorpio]

62. I'm standing with Bravenak nt

[Jappleseed]

65. And you are implying I do not?

That is so sad.

We are all sadden by this but clubbing a whole community to death is not the answer.

[azureblue]

156. why the devisive comment?

explain yourself.

[azureblue]

158. I followed some of this

Jeez the guy was such an obvious troll, why wasn't he banned right away?

[HereSince1628]

85. It seems printed in a way that facilitates being posted somewhere,

Apparently there is more than one version of this letter. I've only seen one, and the version I saw was was printed in an over-sized font that makes a photo taken from a distance easily legible. Legible enough to be posted into social media and read That might mean, but wouldn't necessary mean, that it was intended to be used that way.

The large font size was selected likely by choice, it doesn't match the font on the picture of the envelope. There was either an unfamiliarity with how large fonts dry or an urgency that got one letter folded when it was still wet. Two copies of the letters are involved that wasn't an accident. I'm of the opinion that unusual things emerging from choices can be revealing, and perhaps these things are a clue for whatever professionals in whose hands any serious consideration rests.

I have received a creepy letter in response to an LTTE I had published in the Milw JS. There is no doubt I found that creepy and unsettling, so I do understand what such a letter can do.

While alternate scenarios and motivations can be postulated to explain limited facts, and while there is no way to sort them out from reading DU, what is certain is that no DUer should be threatened via DU posts, SU private mails, social media or through the USPS.

[BumRushDaShow]

63. K&R

And nailed it.

[malaise]

64. I Stand With Bravenak!

Rec

[djean111]

70. What happened, and what evidently continues to happen, is terrible, but is no reason to

change anyone's support for a candidate who may end up being President. Just my opinion, and how I will proceed.

I have never alerted on anyone, ever, and I don't get invited to enough juries to recognize any trends or objectives.
I always put comments in a hide or a leave it. And if I cannot decide, or find I have no clear reason to have a verdict at all, I excuse myself.

[PeaceNikki]

72. I agree. Recently a very long time rather well known DUer drudged up a post of mine from 4 years ago

and used the fact I didn't respond to him then as a reason to be a nasty asshole to me, claiming I'm not REALLY a liberal. And, of course, *I* am the one who got two hides for responding in kind to that fucker while he skated by without any.

The point is that there are total creeps among us who keeps dossiers on us for kicks and hold onto grudges for years. And "community standards" dictated by juries let it slide. Especially if the jurors "don't like" the person they're judging.

[Cha]

96. Wow.. I'm having an similar experience.. BS supporters are linking my posts from 2008 against

Hillary because I'm a supporter now.

They're playing "Gotcha" in Bernie's name like it's helping their candidate. I don't respond.. I just feel sorry for them.

[PeaceNikki]

98. It's creepy. Do they keep spreadsheets on the posters they dislike?

[Cha]

100. Any chance to make it personal and try to embarass their target when they're really only

embarrassing themselves.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

168. I'm one of those people, and I posted your own words, not to make a point about Sanders

...but about you. You're inveighing very heavily against Sanders and his supporters, and you're foursquare behind Hillary Clinton. But the last time around, you were vehemently calling her a liar. You have every right to change your mind, of course. But my purpose was to let others know that you say lots of things that are completely malleable. This serves to let people know that your attacks on Sanders and your full-throated defense of Clinton really needn't be items of concern. And that, Cha, is a political discussion, which is the reason this forum exists.

Own your words; don't run away from them. Don't try to turn this or similar situations into ridiculous accusations of stalking, not when the site provides a customized Google search of this site's archives in the top right corner of every page. You said the words. Now you say opposite words. That's no crime, but don't act surprised when people remember and bring it up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. You only had that experience once?

I have lost count.

There is a small group of creeps here...but the creeps here are nowhere close...well except than in a Venn diagram some posters here are regulars at those sites...where they even get some real street cred by pointing out how they fool the DUMMies.

Think about that one

Hey, I am not sure if I should congratulate you for being on their radar. I know I have been for years. Maybe they will give you an "award" too.

[LWolf]

73. No matter who

the stalker is, he or she needs to be outed, stopped, and face some consequences.

I don't need to speculate about the source, DU or not, BS supporter or not, etc.; it doesn't matter. No matter what the source, it's not okay. And it's not just assholery; stalking a DUer in real life is way beyond that.

EVERY group of people will have some members who are assholes, or who suffer from some level of mental illness, hate, aggression, and other negative qualities.

Because every group of people is comprised of people, and those are some human characteristics. No group is exempt.


I also stand with Bravenak.

[boston bean]

74. I'm pretty positive it wasn't a hillary supporter... Come on that is conspiracy kooky bs.

The letter was quite knowledgeable about DU and the inner workings and claims "GO BERNIE".

And the letter was most definitely in response to bravenak's blm postings here on the DU. And sounded an awful lot like responses she got from Bernie supporters here, sorry if one doesn't like to hear that fact, but it is FACT.

Anyone want to go and hide their head in the sand over those facts, feel free to do so.

Like Occams Razor take the simplest explanation with the least assumptions. Not some conspiracy that it was a Hillary supporter doing a false flag operation to make Bernie and his supporters "look" bad, or bravenak sending the letters to herself, to do the same. WTF? This place can be real kooky sometimes.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

75. Well, there is RightWingNeanderthalDwellingPlace.com.

Which is full of psychopaths.

And I mean that very literally. If a DUer has passed away, they'll post a thread mocking the deceased DUer. These are incredibly creepy people. They are psychopaths. There's probably only about 20-25 regular posters over there, but there is something very mentally wrong with them.

Whereas a site like Free Republic--much as the mindset over there is frequently extreme and sometimes laughable--appears to exist for the purpose of political discussion, RightWingNeanderthalDwellingPlace.com appears to exist solely for the purpose of obsessing over the daily postings here at DU. They'll love to glom onto frequent DU posters, mocking them, creating idiotic nicknames for them, and yes, celebrating their misfortune, illness and even death.

Who in their right mind does that? Yes, sometimes during a major event, someone will post Free Republic's reaction over here, but it's not as though we obsess over individual Freepers and their daily postings or lives. Take any sports rivalry, and I doubt very much fans of one team will create a board solely to obsess over individual fans of the rival team.

It takes a special breed of psychopath to do something like this.

The internet can be a dark, shady place for dark shady people. I'm pretty sure whoever did this probably had some connection with RightWingNeanderthalDwellingPlace.com. It's psychopathic behavior, and that's par for the course over there.

[aikoaiko]

77. The letters and sender are despicable and repulsive no matter who they are.

And its true that I am speaking out on behalf of bravenak whereas I did not before because of these letters.

As a Bernie supporter my initial reaction was that no Bernie supporter would write that or send it, but it is true there are some nuances to it that I don't think the typical external RW troll would have picked up on. Although some have speculated that some RW trolls are posing as Bernie supporters to attack HRC even before this incident.

I can also see why some see the BLM backlash, alerts and hides, and this letter on a continuum of the same thing. That troubles me, but still the crossing of the line of reaching out through the USPS is clearly outrageous.

I have no hope that the coward will confess unless it is in some kind of burn out post.

[fishwax]

78. a pathetic and cowardly troll, whether right wing or not

I know bravenak won't let the bastards get her down.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

79. Confession might be good for the soul

but unless they actually figured out why what they did is so horribly wrong, it means squat here and now.

Whoever it is needs to go offline and spend a lot of time soul-searching. First, to see if they can even find one, and second, to work on whipping it into shape if they do. Because that was some Trump-level asinine behaviour.

No nonpologies. If they want to confess, it has to be full-throated, and show that they realize just why what they did was so Godawful and wrong on so many levels.

[MrScorpio]

81. I seriously doubt that soul-searching will be their highest preference

After all, that letter reeked with the air of self-satisfaction and self-serving indignation, as if they actually thought that they would have a lot of people siding with them for sending her those awful letters.

The truth is that the letter writer is being seen as the villain here, not Bravenak. Even big time Bernie supporters are calling him/her on that bullshit.

The writer is not the kind of person who would get the message about their own wrong-doing on their own. They're always going to think that they're justified.

So, be that as it may, I'm all for a healthy round of shunning once we come down to finding out who the real culprit is.

This person has no place on a progressive forum.

[boston bean]

82. Are you sure about this point you are making?

The truth is that the letter right is being seen as the villain here, not Bravenak. Even big time Bernie supporters are calling him/her on that bullshit.

Cause I have seen Bernie supporters here right here on DU questioning and making accusations that bravenak sent the letters to herself to disrupt and make Bernie and his supporters look bad.

[MrScorpio]

83. Well, SOME Bernie supporters, not all...

I concede your point.

Of course, folks are noticing who's siding with the letter writing asshole and this shit will be remembered.

[Utopian Leftist]

157. This:

The writer is not the kind of person who would get the message about their own wrong-doing on their own. They're always going to think that they're justified.

I am no one in this discussion other than a DU member and observer of human behavior. But you have made an important point here. The person who wrote that letter appears to believe that the pressure put on bravenak could somehow inadvertently benefit Senator Sanders campaign. Anyone who would think such a thing is sick. Clearly deranged. The question of which candidate has the support of this deranged person is clearly irrelevant, because you are not dealing with someone who is playing with a full deck of cards so to speak, to begin with. Based on this alone, it's reasonable to predict that the culprit will turn out to be someone either with severe mental health issues or a profoundly dangerous lack of self-awareness. That should be obvious based on the idea that the culprit actually believed his or her letter, and his or her pressure on bravenak, would have some inadvertently positive affect on the Sanders campaign. Any adult who would think such a thing, who would think that a menacing letter to an opponent would assist a progressive campaign on a progressive board would pretty much have to be a deeply disturbed, confused individual. Wouldn't they?

[SidDithers]

84. DU rec...

I don't believe that the letter is from a current DUer.

More likely one of the repeat trolls, that gets banned over and over and over and over.

However, the letter writer has self-identified as a Sanders supporter, and some of those zombies trolls profess to be Sanders supporters.

I believe that's more likely, than the right-wing stalkers idea, floated in another thread.

Sid

[CTyankee]

86. we have NO IDEA who this person is, NONE.

An anonymous letter sender is just that for god knows what reason...

I don't think we should all be losing our shit over this...but, sigh,...

[Hortensis]

93. Agree totally. No assumption is supported, or warranted.

[MrScorpio]

87. Trust me, I firmly believe that focusing on those misanthropic, RW goat fuckers is a waste of time

Mostly because none them could be bothered to give a rat's ass about being offended when #BLM activists confronted Bernie. That wasn't their struggle. They're already a bunch of racist flea bitten dipshits and they don't give a flying fuck about Bernie.

No, that letter was steeped in both a sense of white entitlement and white fragility, the kind that we've seen all too often in the internecine conflicts here, in which we only have ourselves to blame. Trolls, on the other hand, operate on a sense of immediate gratification. They want their negative feedback right away and up front, in ways in which they can control the ability to see that reaction. This wasn't a troll, this was a person who feels completely justified in their own position, based on the time and effort it took to track down Bravenak's snail mail address, type the letters up, stuff them in envelopes and mail them to her.

That speaks to definite aura of single-mindedness as well, not to mention an obsession that this person has with upholding a previous conflict with her, even while she's on time out. I would also hazard a supposition that her temporary inability to engage with said person infuriated the writer sufficiently enough to convince themselves that they had to take the extra step to attack her. That's purely personal on their part. Trolls don't get personal, they don't care.

And I have a very good reason to believe that we're dealing with an active member here, not one of our castoffs. Again, I'm not at liberty to explain why, but that's what I truly believe.

I do understand the inability for self-examination, this shit isn't easy to see when it's in the mirror.

I hate to brag, but I usually am a pretty good judge of character, that's because I'm very deliberative about how I come to gauging what people write.

[Gothmog]

88. I stand with Bravenak

Great post

[greatauntoftriplets]

94. I stand with bravenak.

[octoberlib]

99. I stand with Bravenak.

Thanks for your post.

[emulatorloo]

103. Very well said. I too think was from an active DU'er

Rather than an outsider.

It is from someone who is TOTALLY immersed in DU:

- very familiar with the procedures and inner workings of DU

- specifically talks about 'alert stalking', which is a hot issue at DU. That's so meta I don't see any non-DU'er being obsessed with that

- same willful misinterpretation of Bravenak's post we have seen posted by some members of DU

The letter is a hardened, profanity laden version of posts I've seen directed at Bravenak on this forum by some DU'ers.

And I stand with Bravenak.

[gollygee]

104. +1

I've seen very similar posts to her, minus the profanity.

[raven mad]

109. I stand, as always, with braveinak.

Always.

[lumberjack_jeff]

114. Anyone remember the 2004 Bin Laden "letter to america"?

http://www.aljazeera.com/archive/2004/11/200849163336457223.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Osama_bin_Laden_video

On Oct. 29, 2004, just four days before the U.S. presidential election, al-Qaeda leader Osama bin-Laden released a videotape denouncing George W. Bush. Some Bush supporters quickly spun the diatribe as “Osama’s endorsement of John Kerry.” But behind the walls of the CIA, analysts had concluded the opposite: that bin-Laden was trying to help Bush gain a second term.

This stunning CIA disclosure is tucked away in a brief passage near the end of Ron Suskind’s The One Percent Doctrine, which draws heavily from CIA insiders. Suskind wrote that the CIA analysts based their troubling assessment on classified information, but the analysts still puzzled over exactly why bin-Laden wanted Bush to stay in office.

According to Suskind’s book, CIA analysts had spent years “parsing each expressed word of the al-Qaeda leader and his deputy, [Ayman] Zawahiri. What they’d learned over nearly a decade is that bin-Laden speaks only for strategic reasons. …

“Their [the CIA’s] assessments, at day’s end, are a distillate of the kind of secret, internal conversations that the American public [was] not sanctioned to hear: strategic analysis. Today’s conclusion: bin-Laden’s message was clearly designed to assist the President’s reelection.

I doubt there are enough Sanders supporters around to qualify as "we" who would be so stupid as to believe a letter like the one sent to Bravenak would do their candidate any good.

It's often simpler to assume that when shit happens - in this case denigrating Sanders supporters at DU - it was because someone wanted it to happen, and that the intimidation Bravenak experienced is simply collateral damage.

[MrScorpio]

117. Most of the time when something quacks, waddles and swims, you know, it's a duck…

Besides, I took quite a bit of time mulling over all the angles and I have reasons (more than one) to eliminate outside agitators… So far. More reasons than I have to speculate that they are responsible. I haven't listed them all with everyone here, because this is an open forum and I'm still doing this here process.

I do appreciate your input and if you have more evidence, I'd love to see what you have.

[Lisa D]

115. I stand with Bravenak

[Cali_Democrat]

130. I stand with bravenak!

[JEB]

131. Whoever wrote that letter is not cool.

Probably needs therapy.

[notadmblnd]

136. I think it could have been someone from over at our evil step sister's place

who normally just lurks here because they know that they can't get away with their crap over here.

I really hate to think it is someone from over here, but then again there are some pretty nasty people here that can't disagree or argue different points of views without pointing fingers, being rude and taking it to a personal level. It's unfortunate, but it is reality. I'm not popular with the AA group because some of the views I have expressed are not appreciated. However, I have always tried to keep my posts about the issue and not the individual I'm responding to.

And even though I often don't like some of the views expressed here, I do believe everyone has the right to express them- Hence, I too stand with Bravenak.

[MrScorpio]

140. To be sure, our goat-diddling friends have already been assessed nt

[awoke_in_2003]

137. K&R

I, too, stand with her.

[stage left]

149. I don't understand the urge to silence anyone's voice.

I enjoyed Bravenak's posts and I'm sorry she is being harrassed for saying what she thinks and feels and observes. I stand with Bravenak.

[MrScorpio]

160. So you're the victim, because you went into a safe haven forum and inveighed against a member…

Frankly, I'm amazed that you don't understand why that's problematic.

[kwassa]

165. Speaking as a host for that group, banning you would be a decision that I agree with.

You violated the purposes of this safe haven group, and had no further right to be there. This is the difference between the groups and the forums.

[kwassa]

169. Just be aware of what forum or groups "latest threads" takes you to.

The concept is not to be off-limits to free speech. Here is the explanation for a group.

This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to a particular group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting in that group

Groups are for supporters of those particular viewpoints or interests. Forums are more for free-for-all expressions, though nowhere on DU are anti-Democratic beliefs tolerated.

[vkkv]

179. I'm with you Freelancer

Safe-Haven groups.. safe from who exactly? Their peers? I got kicked out the AA group, too, I didn't realize I was even IN THERE! Woah, heavy censorship and hate is what I got. That's right, build a wall, like self applied separation, yeah yeah I get it, you don't REALLY WANT to be a part of "us".

[vkkv]

180. """ though nowhere on DU are anti-Democratic beliefs tolerated. ""

- could have fooled me!

[stage left]

185. I believe that everyone should have the right to speak.

[blackspade]

152. Whoever sent them is an asshole.

Uncalled for and one of the most despicable things I have heard of here at DU.
And that's saying something with all of the toxic rhetoric and alert stalking abound here.

I stand with Barvenak.

[Aerows]

154. Well, what would you have everyone do?

Should we vote for Hillary Clinton?

What is your solution?

[840high]

155. That's it. Perfect solution.

[MrScorpio]

159. My solution is uncovering the writer of that letter and kicking him off the site.

I couldn't care less about which Democrat anyone here plans to vote for in the primary.

[Aerows]

161. I think it's probably a mole from

one of the sites whose whole purpose in life is to discuss what goes on at DU.

My God - they harassed the cooking and baking group. How weird is that?

I didn't want to believe it, but I no longer underestimate the depths of harassment, depravity and general assholishness that some will sink to.

If you feel it is necessary to show your butt in a forum about recipes, you have serious issues.

[MrScorpio]

162. Yeah, I kinda figured that you don't want to believe that a DUer would write and send that letter

But I have very good reasons to say that this is a wholly internal matter, not done by outsiders.

[Aerows]

163. Okay

Can't help it - I love my fellow DUers.

[Generic Other]

170. This is why I feel this way too

but I also see that I could be in denial. All we seem to be able to agree on is that a lowlife creep is lurking about. And that his/her actions made DU suck.

[6000eliot]

172. How about just supporting your own candidate

rather than attacking others? That might be a start. You know who DOES NOT engage in this kind of grade-school nonsense? Bernie Sanders, that's who. If only his supporters would learn from his example.

[mmonk]

167. I doubt they are going to confess.

Also, I'm not sure it's even legal if it is a repeated thing.

[Jason Huh]

173. Is there a Joshua Goldberg in the house?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/11/terrorist-troll-pretended-to-be-isis-white-supremacist-and-jewish-lawyer.html

When Joshua Goldberg wasn’t posing as an Islamic radical, he was pretending to be a white supremacist—and is accused of impersonating a Jewish lawyer.

Goldberg had several online personas: an Islamic radical who was popular in ISIS social media; a white supremacist on hate site Daily Stormer; a radical free-speech advocate on Q&A site Ask.fm and and a blog. Goldberg is also accused of being behind a Times of Israel blog post that called Palestinians “subhuman.”

Goldberg’s trolling turned serious when he was arrested Thursday by the FBI on the grounds that he told a would-be terrorist how to build a bomb meant for a 9/11 anniversary event in Kansas City, Missouri.

The 20-year-old, who lived at home with his parents and was described as a recluse by neighbors, was a prolific tweeter through accounts with various permutations of the name @auswitness. Goldberg was so successful at his game that he was even retweeted by one of the pro-ISIS gunman who attacked a “Draw Muhammad” event in Garland, Texas, last May, according to the FBI.

[Aerows]

174. It is most probably an idiot outside of DU

But beyond trying to figure out who it was, let's try to figure out WHY it was done. To minimize, humiliate and cause fear in a person under the guise of being "Politically active and liking Bernie Sanders".

Bernie Sanders doesn't have a racist bone in his body, and that is part of the reason I support him; another part is that he doesn't have a sexist bone in his body, he fights for all of us.

To try to attach his name to hate mail (and this was epic hate mail, delivered in the damn mail) tells me that the dodo birds in the Republican party know they have no candidate and better get to jeering the other person in the race, Sanders in case Clinton isn't their opponent.

Good grief, I hate election season, and this shit keeps coming sooner and sooner.

Reminds me of this.

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/weekend-update-mr-senior/n43347

[nadinbrzezinski]

176. Just one qualifier

Last edited Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:33 AM - Edit history (1)

I don't think this has one iota to do with the Republicans. Above I stated my reasons why this likely came from suspect 1, 2 and 3 in these cases due to the history of that shit on this site. Gad, I forgot about the cooking and baking group. I guess it was so mild it was almost good nature by their track record.

By the way, the OP might be correct given that some of them low lives are long time members here too. One went home to FR after getting a pizza delivery smug, since he /she even made it to mod. Hell, another spoke of that in the FB protected group.

It is a Venn diagram kind of a thing. But it is silly to outright dismiss them.

[marym625]

175. I'm not convinced it's someone here. but that doesn't matter.

As I've said before, it sucks, it's horrible, she's my friend and I hate this for her. I truly believe the intention was to fuck with du and that bravenak was the main target. Du was meant to be damaged as well. Whoever did it, inside or out is a coward and an asshole.

[lovemydog]

182. I know you two are friends

and just want to say I like and appreciate you too. We miss our friend.

[marym625]

183. thank you,

Back at you!

[vkkv]

177. Myself, as an idealist, I keep forgetting that there are A-Holes in every cross-section of society.

What are you going to do? Just blow'em off, I guess. Don't give them the spotlight.

[merrily]

181. The only thing I care about in this is the safety of Bravenak and her family.

All else is DU meta and not important to me.