Ben Carson: Science is fairy tales and the devil inspired Darwin

[eridani]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/09/23/1424108/-Ben-Carson-Science-is-fairy-tales-and-the-devil-inspired-Darwin

With Ben Carson gaining on Donald Trump at the top of the polls in the Republican presidential race, the more, shall we say, interesting public comments he's made in his past are seeping out. It's proving that there are multiple kinds of intelligence, and being by all accounts a brilliant neurosurgeon doesn't necessarily reflect a solid intellectual grasp on reality.

For example, the big bang theory is a "fairy tale" spread by "high-faluting scientists," and evil lurks behind the theory of evolution.

"So now you're gonna have this big explosion and everything becomes perfectly organized and when you ask them about it they say, "Well we can explain this, based on probability theory because if there's enough big explosions, over a long period of time, billions and billions of years, one of them will be the perfect explosion," continued Carson. "So I say what you're telling me is if I blow a hurricane through a junkyard enough times over billions and billions of years, eventually after one of those hurricanes there will be a 747 fully loaded and ready to fly." […]

Later, Carson said he personally believed Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution was encouraged by the devil. [...]

"Amazingly, there are a significant number of scientists who do not believe it but they're afraid to say anything," Carson added, saying he would be writing a book, "The Organ of Species," that shows how the organs of the body refute evolution.

As a matter of fact, Carson has written books, though apparently not this one. For a fun read, check out that link, and how pregnant women are a lot like Michael Vick with his dogs. What a charmer.

Carson's deeper thoughts on how the world works, on morality, on existence do kind of answer one burning question about Carson—how in the hell he thinks he should be president. He's so steeped in magical, black and white thinking, so sure of his interpretation of the "Word of God" that he's probably never questioned his own qualifications.

[Kennah]

1. Obama is a Muslin, and Darwin worships Satin! n/t

[DetlefK]

3. I can't help it: I love the touch of Satin on my skin.

[eridani]

25. Better to be a Satinist or a Linenist than a Muslin, any old day n/t

[w0nderer]

26. i'd love me some presidential woollenin...n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

34. Ha! n/t

[DetlefK]

2. 1. This is high-school-level math, Dr. Carson. 2. ...

1. To understand this mathematical claim, you need to know fractional algebra and high-school-level knowledge of stochastics. With this, one has the mental tools to understand why the example Dr. Carson cites as ridiculous is actually perfectly correct.

2. I'm a physicist. I work with chemists and biophysicists and had the opportunity to talk with biologists. Let me tell you something about biologists: They study biology because they want to do science-stuff but have an aversion to math. Dr. Carson is just one among many more examples for this.

[yardwork]

5. Makes me wonder how he got into medical school.

I wonder what his MCAT score was.

[DetlefK]

23. This was an anecdote.

I repeated what I was told by a biologist.

A colleague of mine regularly holds a physics-lecture for biology-students. And they somehow have problems with some of the simplest scenarios. (Maybe they are accustomed to a different kind of problems.)

It's sad to hear that misogyny influenced your choice. Indeed it's strange that physics has a far smaller female population than chemistry or biology. Maybe physics has this reputation as being "unwelcoming to women" which makes women automatically opt for chemistry or biology instead.

If you want to know what physicists are like, you should not take "The Big Bang Theory" as an example. There are physicist nerds, no doubt about that, but they are nevertheless rare. If you combine the nerdiest nerds you can possibly find, you get the ultra-nerds of TBBT with unfailing knowledge ranging from one end of physics to the other and a dozen time- and money-stealing hobbies that are all being practiced AT THE SAME TIME.

(Computer scientists and mathematicians prefer trance and heavy-metal. Physicists prefer classic rock and dub-step. With the the more "social" fields it goes more towards pop- and dance-music. Where are biologists on this spectrum?)

There are "windowless offices", but they are rather "isolated underground-laboratories that make you yearn for seeing the sky again". Then again, that's also more of an extreme.

You prefer to get your hands dirty in the mud, I prefer to tinker with a machine in my lab. Accordingly, we two should be mortal enemies for the rest of our lives... which will be rather short. Pistols at dawn!



EDIT:
Guys? There was no need to hide this. It wasn't that mean.

[w0nderer]

27. knives at dawn, coffee for one

and boffers only LOL

[bulloney]

4. Didn't Carson have to take a number of science, chemistry, math, biology,

and other science-related classes in becoming a surgeon? Not to mention his life experiences as a surgeon?

These remarks by Carson make me seriously question his competency as a surgeon.

[NightWatcher]

7. He's just selling books to the christian rubes

Tell them what they want to hear and make a few million.

[bklyncowgirl]

9. That's my assessment.

He knows better but also knows that the people who follow him have not, well, evolved.

[DetlefK]

8. Medical doctors are more like engineers.

For them, hands-on talent is way more important than dealing with numbers.

As I said above, biologists in general have less contact with math than scientists like physicists and chemists. And my take-away from conversations with biologists was that they studied biology because they wanted to do science but without the pesky math.

[Thor_MN]

22. Surgeons are more like mechanics.

Engineers design things. Mechanics fix things.

Carson had good manual dexterity. That seems to be his only qualification, he demonstrates huge amounts of fail on science.

[exboyfil]

31. Have to agree

Engineers need to know a great deal of math especially Electrical Engineers. Mechanical Engineers like myself typically take four or five semesters (Calc I-III, Differential Equations, and sometimes Partial Differential Equations). Also most take Statistics as well. All of our courses are math based. We actually take more math than most science majors with the exception of Physics majors which take about the same amount. My brother-in-law has a PhD in Biochemistry from Harvard, and his math terminated with Calculus II.

For medical school you don't need Calculus for some schools. Usually you have Precalculus and Statistics unless you are in a major that requires more math for graduation. You need two semesters of non-Calculus based Physics (which is hard - in some ways harder than the Calculus based stuff because you really don't understand where the equations are coming from). Four or five semesters of Chemistry (General, Organic, and usually a semester of Biochemistry). Three or four semesters of Biology (General, and something like Genetics or Physiology).

Organic Chemistry is insanely difficult in my opinion. My daughter is currently taking Organic Chem I and having problems.

The medical courses also require a great deal of science. Physiology, Chemistry, and of course Biology. Some Math and Physics as well. You simply cannot understand modern Biology without also understanding evolution.

"Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution" is a famous quote by Theodosius Dobzhansky.

[Thor_MN]

32. Organic Chem was a memorization class, at least when I took it.

Memorize a list of amino acids for the test and then it's gone to make room for the next list of things to memorize. I preferred classes where learning and applying rules was the object.

[hatrack]

6. For a brain surgeon, he sure is a dumbass . . . .

[bklyncowgirl]

10. I think it's a sad day for America when a leading American Presidential candidate...

a man who is also a noted neurosurgeon, appears to have less of a belief in and understanding of science than the Pope.

Of course Catholics have long embraced evolution and a Catholic priest was instrumental in developing the big bang theory (the scientific theory--not the TV show) so perhaps it's not surprising.

Somewhere Galileo is laughing.

[MohRokTah]

11. Does this idiot still practice medicine? eom

[pampango]

12. "The conspiracy fantasies ... onstitute an alternative reality that is immune from facts."

8. Conspiracy theories and the paranoid style.

Donald Trump was one of the most prominent advocates of “Birtherism”—a belief that Barack Obama, the United States’ first black president, was somehow not eligible for the office because he is not a “real” citizen.

This is an absurdly racist claim; nevertheless it is one that is still believed by 66 percent of Trump supporters and 45 percent of Republicans. Birtherism was the first of many conspiracy theories that would be invented by the right-wing media in the age of Obama. Obsessions about Planned Parenthood, ACORN and Benghazi would follow. These delusions are part of a long pattern of right-wing paranoia that Richard Hofstadter detailed in his landmark 1964 essay, “The Paranoid Style in American Politics.”

The right-wing media and the Republican Party’s embrace of conspiracy theories and paranoid delusions contribute to a broken political system because too much time is spent on the absurd instead of doing the work of real governance. The conspiracy fantasies of Donald Trump and the American right-wing constitute an alternative reality that is immune from facts. Consequently, these beliefs function as a type of religious cult where faith—what is a belief that cannot be proven by ordinary means—is substituted for empirical reality.

Donald Trump’s “birtherism” alternate reality is compelling and exciting for those who believe in it. Such conspiranoid delusions are dangerous because they create extreme political polarization, a political system that cannot fulfill its basic functions, encourage violence, and tear at the common beliefs and values that create a sense of political legitimacy and community in the United States.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/24/8_reasons_white_america_falls_for_demagogues_like_donald_trump_partner/

This article focuses on Trump but Carson and the others mimic what Trump is doing.

[Marrah_G]

13. how is this crazy person a dr?

[malaise]

14. How did this fugging moron get into Medical School?

[Javaman]

15. LOL that was my very first thought as well! LOL nt

[pnwmom]

29. The same way that Mormons do, according to a friend of mine.

For the sake of medical school admission, they are instructed to memorize all the biological science that their church rejects and to spout if off on command.

Just not to believe it.

[malaise]

36. Probably

How can people compartmentalize in that way - damn!!!

[tavernier]

16. How can he be president when

the first time he ventures out of his line of vision he will fall off the edge of the earth?

Scary fellow.

[Gothmog]

17. Carson is proving that brain surgeons can be stupid people

[MisterP]

18. man, I just finished "Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell": don't mention combining fairies and science

at the moment, please

[Rex]

19. Yes Ben, eventually a fully loaded 747 will be there ready to take off.

Does the man have no concept of the geological time scale? A billion years is a lot of time. Billions and billions of years means a lot of improbable events will happen. His understanding of the universe could fit on the tip of a pen.

[alarimer]

20. So I guess he prayed over his patients?

I mean, it's not like neurology is informed by actual science or anything. It's just witchcraft, after all.

I mean, really, "Dr". Ben, how do you feel about germ theory? Did you even wash your hands before operating on people?

I don't this guy. I'm guessing he's saying these things because he has to pander to the wingnuts. Either that, or he is completely insane (maybe drank too much of the Seventh Day Adventists Kool-Aid?)

[TipTok]

24. Is there a quote for the Devil inspired Darwin bit?

Can't see it...

[oberliner]

28. Yes, if you click on the "solid intellectual grasp on reality" link

It takes you to a Buzzfeed article which includes this quote:

“I personally believe that this theory that Darwin came up with was something that was encouraged by the adversary, and it has become what is scientifically, politically correct,” said Carson.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/ben-carson-big-bang-a-fairy-tale-theory-of-evolution-encoura?utm_term=.fgynkMqdZ#.qyZOxkVbD

He uses the phrase "the adversary" which is a euphemism for the devil.

[Thor_MN]

33. "He who must not be named" nt

[valerief]

30. What a creepy guy. nt

[spanone]

35. it's truly hard to believe that this man is a brain surgeon....

perhaps you don't need one to operate on one???