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TygrBright

(20,755 posts)
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:05 AM Oct 2015

It's Gotten Harder to Lose Weight- And Not for the Reasons You Think

Last edited Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)

The Washington Post today called out the "it's all about diet and exercise so it's your own fault" fat-shamers with the evidence of a new study indicating what a lot of us have known for a long time.

“Weight management is actually much more complex than just ‘energy in’ versus ‘energy out,’” Kuk said in the statement. “That’s similar to saying your investment account balance is simply your deposits subtracting your withdrawals and not accounting for all the other things that affect your balance like stock market fluctuations, bank fees or currency exchange rates.”


The study notes that among the many factors that appear to correlate with higher obesity levels in the adult population, the changing composition of foods themselves-- pesticides, preservatives, artificial sweeteners, and other ingredients, play a role. So do the the containers foods are packaged in, stored in, and eaten from. So do non-food factors like prescription medications.

So does an area we're increasingly aware of, the human microbiome, an individual characteristic as unique as a fingerprint, and one we have no clear understanding of as yet, and certainly no quick and easy monetize-able recipes for changing or controlling.

Short version: The ways we, as a whole culture, have changed our economy, our environment, foodshed, health system, etc., are making us fatter. Blaming individuals for not being able to "control" their diet and exercise sufficiently is increasingly futile and counter-productive.

The solution to the obesity epidemic lies as much in changing our economy and our culture as in promoting changes in individual behavior.

analytically,
Bright
136 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It's Gotten Harder to Lose Weight- And Not for the Reasons You Think (Original Post) TygrBright Oct 2015 OP
K&R hedgehog Oct 2015 #1
The amount of sugars in our diets have changed our gut bacteria Marrah_G Oct 2015 #2
All bacteria thrives on sugar. It doesn't select "bad" bacteria. jeff47 Oct 2015 #11
Low carb changed my whole life. Great book..... Logical Oct 2015 #21
I am sick of hearing this “learned helplessness" PNW_Dem Oct 2015 #48
You seem to know it all so no need to comment! Nt Logical Oct 2015 #63
So glad you said this - because I needed more people telling me how lazy I am nadine_mn Oct 2015 #69
^^^^^^^ phylny Oct 2015 #95
People who don't use food as a drug have no idea what people with snagglepuss Oct 2015 #96
+1 laundry_queen Oct 2015 #98
Just put on a happy face. What the hell is wrong with you? Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #102
We love and support you here. You are one of us a Democrat. classykaren Oct 2015 #117
Thank you so much - I needed that nadine_mn Oct 2015 #126
I notice PNW_DEM didn't bother to respond AndreaCG Oct 2015 #133
94 > 135 PNW_Dem Oct 2015 #136
Isn't there a yahoo newstory artislife Oct 2015 #88
I'm amused. phylny Oct 2015 #94
Bacteria does not cause obesity. Feron Oct 2015 #134
Keep up the fight PNW_Dem Oct 2015 #135
I know from changing the places and the things I eat that for poor Maraya1969 Oct 2015 #97
You sound like you would could find a soulmate in this lady. Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #101
Sure. Again, a low-carb diet is easier to stay on. jeff47 Oct 2015 #55
I disagree, never hungry is the low carb! Thus no snacking. And carbs feed sugar issue. Nt Logical Oct 2015 #62
Never hungry = easier to stay on. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #64
Nothing else ever worked including calorie restriction. So ther is more to it.... Logical Oct 2015 #68
Low carb is calorie restriction. "Counting carbohydrates" is a proxy for counting calories. jeff47 Oct 2015 #72
"Low carb is calorie restriction." Not necessarily, if you're eating more fats. n/t eShirl Oct 2015 #118
We will just need to disagree on this. Nt Logical Oct 2015 #121
You'd be surprised how many calories you can eat. ladyVet Oct 2015 #73
Not-carbs that include meat also include all the steroids that are causing ANGER ISSUES loudsue Oct 2015 #107
Yep. I'm with ya. emmadoggy Oct 2015 #108
What Emma said! It's useless to blame individual people because our whole culture Nay Oct 2015 #128
I think it's more complicated, especially when you throw metabolic issues into the mix such as Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #103
In a week of giving up bread you feel so much better. classykaren Oct 2015 #116
There are differences in how our body uses fructose and glucose though Marrah_G Oct 2015 #35
Yes, but those are both carbohydrates jeff47 Oct 2015 #54
Sugar is definitely enemy #1 Cosmocat Oct 2015 #38
Sugar is definitely my crack nadine_mn Oct 2015 #66
Suggestion... Qutzupalotl Oct 2015 #78
Thank you for such a thoughtful and helpful response nadine_mn Oct 2015 #82
I've gone on the one-cheat-a-week plan. backscatter712 Oct 2015 #87
Beans! Not the BPA-canned kind, but the kind you cook yourself. Beans with butter. Yum! valerief Oct 2015 #125
mmm beans nadine_mn Oct 2015 #127
I like this idea so much. I'm going to give it a try for a while. Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #104
Thank you this is very similar to the carb addicts diet classykaren Oct 2015 #119
Oh, me too! emmadoggy Oct 2015 #109
So have the antibiotics we take from time to time. They use them in animals' feed to fatten them up pnwmom Oct 2015 #76
I have taken multiple doses of antibiotics Lilyhoney Oct 2015 #86
Good luck! pnwmom Oct 2015 #105
That's also part of it laundry_queen Oct 2015 #99
Keep going, Marrah! I can't even walk down the cereal aisle anymore, it smells sugary gross! Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #80
Obesity rates have seemed to rise in correlation to the increasing amount of crap allowed in our Mnemosyne Oct 2015 #3
Because we have digestive tracts. jeff47 Oct 2015 #6
Thanks jeff47 for that information! haikugal Oct 2015 #34
The "no fat" foods of the 70s have not helped at all. Nt Logical Oct 2015 #19
You've got that right! get the red out Oct 2015 #29
I think it prevents the gas Demeter Oct 2015 #114
A bunch of speculation, which the Kuk made clear ... GeorgeGist Oct 2015 #4
so you discount all the research referenced in the article? are you okay with the "it's all your niyad Oct 2015 #8
She admits "the explanations are still only hypotheses" progressoid Oct 2015 #67
in the documentary "designing healthy communities", one of the points made was that the niyad Oct 2015 #5
+1.I read that people who live in suburbs are 6-10 lbs. heavier than folks in the city or country. appalachiablue Oct 2015 #41
let me know what you think when you have finished. niyad Oct 2015 #91
I agree with this whole heartedly. We live in the suburbs nadine_mn Oct 2015 #89
nothing silly about your last statement at all--that is one of the reasons that mall walk groups niyad Oct 2015 #93
Thank you. It's hard to live a healthy life, hard to find foods, avoid toxins... MindfulOne Oct 2015 #7
stress is a huge factor taught_me_patience Oct 2015 #9
Yes. a la izquierda Oct 2015 #49
A lot of people think "hormone problems" are just an excuse. Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2015 #10
Yep LittleGirl Oct 2015 #45
That's good! Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2015 #92
Yes LittleGirl Oct 2015 #113
Everyone seems to glanced over this phrase:(the explanations are still only hypotheses) Deadshot Oct 2015 #12
And, of course they compound the problem... Wounded Bear Oct 2015 #37
For the overwhelming majority of people, healthy eating and exercise is enough mythology Oct 2015 #13
Lean meats are pretty much just as good. I ate an apple, 4 chicken breasts, 2 buns, 2 pieces of MillennialDem Oct 2015 #30
everyone has a different metabolism. My husband had a heart attack 4 and half months ago so liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #124
Calories in, calories out is a bunch of propaganda created by the food industry. Chakab Oct 2015 #14
Cutting carbs solved my weight issue! Nt Logical Oct 2015 #23
Works fast too! get the red out Oct 2015 #31
I was shocked by that. Compared to normal diets it was amazing. Nt Logical Oct 2015 #32
To me, protein makes me full rather than fat or sugar. MillennialDem Oct 2015 #24
No, actually your body does treat the calories the same jeff47 Oct 2015 #59
I think the "Industry" is to blame. Marketing and Buisness practices. MasonDreams Oct 2015 #15
Damn right! cheapdate Oct 2015 #52
When i stopped carbs and sweets it solved my weight problem. Nt Logical Oct 2015 #16
Huge amount of calories in the sugars and carbs. backscatter712 Oct 2015 #20
I run on diet dr pepper and i was able to lose 1/2 a pound a day for 2 months last year. I also MillennialDem Oct 2015 #25
me, too NJCher Oct 2015 #100
I won't say that calories is the only part of the equation. But it's a huge part. backscatter712 Oct 2015 #17
I've been avoiding PatSeg Oct 2015 #18
Make the base of your meals (60%) Vegatables. You will lose weight. WestCoastLib Oct 2015 #22
The one thing I noticed on Twitter is there seems to be a lot yuiyoshida Oct 2015 #26
Man made food is bad for the human body. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #27
To quote Spock - 3catwoman3 Oct 2015 #28
I've also been following some of the fitness and bodybuilding circles. backscatter712 Oct 2015 #33
A married couple (friends of mine) went gluten free and stayed with it.... C Moon Oct 2015 #36
I had to go gluten AND diary free LittleGirl Oct 2015 #47
Poverty hibbing Oct 2015 #39
And a lot of poor neighborhoods are food deserts. backscatter712 Oct 2015 #43
A load of pet theories here, my anecdote TexasProgresive Oct 2015 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Oct 2015 #42
I have sport horses and agree, the differing metabolism is a huge factor riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #51
You made me remember about some friends' horses TexasProgresive Oct 2015 #58
Oo, oo, I have a similar story. EVERY TIME Mr Nay and I go on vacation, we lose Nay Oct 2015 #129
How about when the Nay's go on vacation stateside? TexasProgresive Oct 2015 #131
For most people, it's calories in - calories out Prism Oct 2015 #44
There's danger in floating conjecture which contradicts "calories in - calories out" Major Nikon Oct 2015 #84
Sigh... gcomeau Oct 2015 #46
Sigh... TygrBright Oct 2015 #61
It seems as though people are looking for ways to blame everything but themselves Deadshot Oct 2015 #65
Yes melman Oct 2015 #70
As a yo-yo dieter all my 59 years, I decided 5 years ago to change my life and my diet because I was Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #50
Its not enough fiber, too much sugar, too much sitting. nt ErikJ Oct 2015 #53
Moderation is much easier to adhere to than dietary exclusion. <nt> AtomicKitten Oct 2015 #56
my mom and i always talk about how in india every once in a while you'll get some GI disease La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2015 #57
And, conversely, the antibiotics more readily available here contribute to weight gain. pnwmom Oct 2015 #75
Your assertion isn't found in your link Major Nikon Oct 2015 #90
I've been happier since I put on weight PasadenaTrudy Oct 2015 #60
This post makes me very sad. grossproffit Oct 2015 #123
I'm happy, you're sad...oh well! n/t PasadenaTrudy Oct 2015 #132
Pasadena, I've loved getting old for the same reason. nt Nay Oct 2015 #130
perhaps we should subsidize local fruits and veggies instead of corn? killbotfactory Oct 2015 #71
kick Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #74
I'm 91 and fit, and I will tell you how MosheFeingold Oct 2015 #77
Well you sound fitter than most persons malaise Oct 2015 #81
You've nailed it! Move more, eat less. Enjoy what you do, and when it starts creeping up, underahedgerow Oct 2015 #111
Sugar, artificial ingredients, pesticides, gmos, chemicals, lack of living organisms beneficial Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #79
Sure, because anyone who dares contradict pseudoscience nonsense Major Nikon Oct 2015 #85
I dropped about 20 pounds when madville Oct 2015 #83
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #106
Cost is what? Howmany jobs do you work? rpannier Oct 2015 #120
Another study chimes in about zalinda Oct 2015 #110
K&R!!!!!! burrowowl Oct 2015 #112
And the poor can not afford organic non-GMO food. classykaren Oct 2015 #115
I don't profess to know much about gut bacteria and such Trajan Oct 2015 #122

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
2. The amount of sugars in our diets have changed our gut bacteria
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:27 AM
Oct 2015

Bad bacteria thrives and multiples on sugars. I am on day 3 of massively reducing the sugar I consume. Gotta say- it's like a damned addiction. Not just physically, but mentally. I feel like I am quitting cigarrettes again.

Check out the documentary called "That sugar film"

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
11. All bacteria thrives on sugar. It doesn't select "bad" bacteria.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:57 AM
Oct 2015

Keep in mind, the only things we really know about nutrition are what you have to do to avoid malnutrition. Various optimization strategies are nothing more than guesses, because they are extremely difficult to study. You can't do a study designed to kill half of the participants from what you believe is an awful diet.

As a result, we're left with trying to tease out optimization from correlation studies, which opens the result to the biases of the researchers.

For example: A study with a calorie-restricted balanced diet and moderate exercise was shown in the 1960s to cause overweight people to lose weight. What was drawn from this study? Fat bad. Enter all the "low fat" diets and low fat Pop Tarts.

A study with a calorie-restricted balanced diet and moderate exercise was shown in the 1990s to cause overweight people to lose weight. What was drawn from this study? Carbs bad. Enter all the "low carb" diets and low carb Pop Tarts.

The experiments were nearly identical, with the only difference being the level of fat and carbohydrates in the diet. In the first study, they ate more carbohydrates and less fat. In the second, they ate less carbohydrates and more fat. They had nearly identical results in terms of BMI loss and rate of BMI loss.

You would think the second study would demonstrate that the carb/fat balance in the diet didn't matter, because of the first study getting the same result, but the people running the study wanted to show a low-carb diet was good.

Now, in practical terms, a low-carb diet is much easier to stick to - proteins and fats take longer to digest, so you feel "full" longer. But that's not a nutritional optimization, that's a "stick to the diet" optimization.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
21. Low carb changed my whole life. Great book.....
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:35 PM
Oct 2015

"Why we get fat and what to do about it"

Changed my health!

PNW_Dem

(119 posts)
48. I am sick of hearing this “learned helplessness"
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:43 PM
Oct 2015

Sorry, but you don’t get off that easily. Obesity IS about personal responsibility. Obesity is caused by mental and physical laziness. Mental laziness being the primary contributor. You need to read labels, eat more real food (not processed), avoid high fructose corn sugar, avoid sitting for hours on end (get up and move around once per hour). I could go on with a very long list of simple, manageable things that each of us can do to stay fit. I am so sick of hearing this “learned helplessness”. The more we are around obesity, the more acceptable it becomes. The simple fact is that you don’t see this level of obesity anywhere else in the world. Yes cultural/economic/policy changes are needed, but there is a tremendous amount that individuals can do to care for themselves. Thank you for reading my rant

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
69. So glad you said this - because I needed more people telling me how lazy I am
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:51 PM
Oct 2015

I am morbidly obese. Yes I have made shitty choices.

Food is my drug of choice, it is how I self medicate. I know it. When I was a binge drinker in school I was a lot thinner.

I need to eat better, I need to exercise. Thank you for telling me how simple it is to just stop being lazy. Does it work with depression too? Can I just stop being depressed? Because when I am depressed I find it nearly impossible to move or leave the house. Maybe all this time, despite the medication and therapy, I should have just decided to "stop it".

My whole life I have had people tell me how fat and disgusting I am (even when I was younger and surprisingly, looking back on old photos, not fat). Been told I am lazy too and I should be ashamed of myself. Funny thing is, that attitude never helped me lose weight, never motivated me.

What did help - people being supportive, helpful and not judgmental. I lost 30 lbs in 8 mos because of all the support and people accepting me.



snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
96. People who don't use food as a drug have no idea what people with
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 10:30 PM
Oct 2015

weight issues struggle with. Two years ago due to a profoundly traumatic event I had to force myself to eat and lost 60 lbs in just months. That is the first time in my life where extreme stress eliminated my appetite. I swore up and down, I would never gain weight back but I did when life took a very very bad turn; I didn't think things could get worse but they did. Instead of not eating I was hit with the sugar cravings I have battled with all my life, the cravings were utterly beyond control and the weight came back on.

People who don't have issues with food just cannot understand people like us, just like people who drink moderately can't understand alcoholics.

Anyway I just wanted to say I hear you and am wishing you all the best.


AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
133. I notice PNW_DEM didn't bother to respond
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 04:00 PM
Oct 2015

I'm not surprised. S/he wears blinders where she doesn't see fat people as human. I too am morbidly obese and depressed (bipolar) and have gained much in the past year. (Yesterday was the anniversary of my having dinner with President Obama, next month a year since I went to work).

One difference between us is I seldom get harassed by people for my weight. On the few occasions I do they get an earful of invective back. Try practicing heckler lines like you were a stand up comic and use one the next time some jerk insults you. You will feel great I wager.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
88. Isn't there a yahoo newstory
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 06:39 PM
Oct 2015

you can comment on and really rant about how people are choosing bad health and obesity?


I am appalled we come from the same area.

phylny

(8,375 posts)
94. I'm amused.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 10:09 PM
Oct 2015

Really.

My functional medicine doctor put me through a very thorough blood test and fecal test. I have three types of bacteria that CAUSE OBESITY in my gut. I do not metabolize vitamin Bs, my "good" bacteria is being attacked by overwhelming "bad" bacteria, and I have hypothyrodism.

Tell me again how mentally lazy I am. Please.

Feron

(2,063 posts)
134. Bacteria does not cause obesity.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:02 PM
Oct 2015

Eating over your TDEE causes obesity.

Some people have bacteria that are more efficient at extracting calories from food than others. However even people with super efficient bacterial colonies will not gain weight if you eat at or below your TDEE.

And hypothyroidism is easily treatable with meds. Again a person isn't going to gain weight without a calorie surplus.

Obese people aren't necessarily lazy, but they often misjudge how many calories they eat.

PNW_Dem

(119 posts)
135. Keep up the fight
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 04:39 PM
Oct 2015

You made my point. You obviously are not mentally lazy if you had the determination to identify the possible cause (bacteria) and are now fighting to resolve it. I truly commend you for that and I wish you all the best. My point was simply to discourage the notion that obesity is the “new norm” and we have to accept it.

None of my original comments were mean spirited. Yet, many of the responses to it were.

Maraya1969

(22,474 posts)
97. I know from changing the places and the things I eat that for poor
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:00 PM
Oct 2015

people in this country and even lower middle class it is very hard to eat a nutritious and healthy diet.

You have to pay more at Burger King to get a salad. It is much cheaper to buy a bunch of hamburgers and if you have a family and you don't have time to cook sometimes that's what you have to do.

I just went in a diet that is non gluten. Guess how much the bread costs that is non gluten? It is outrageous! And I sweeten with Stevia which also expensive and now the only other sweet thing I can have is pure maple syrup, which costs at least 4 times as much as regular pancake syrup.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
55. Sure. Again, a low-carb diet is easier to stay on.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 02:50 PM
Oct 2015

But it isn't the low-carb that makes you lose weight. It's the calorie restriction, especially coupled with moderate exercise.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
68. Nothing else ever worked including calorie restriction. So ther is more to it....
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:45 PM
Oct 2015

That your simple idea.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
72. Low carb is calorie restriction. "Counting carbohydrates" is a proxy for counting calories.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:55 PM
Oct 2015

If you're restricting carbohydrates, you are restricting calories. It's extremely difficult to eat, say, 4000 calories with low-to-zero carbohydrates. So while you are only paying attention to the carbohydrates, you are also effectively restricting your overall calories.

What makes there "more to it" is you are using your biochemistry to help you stay on the diet. That's what makes it so amazingly successful - you're using your body to help you instead of fighting against your body's "anti-starvation" mechanisms.

ladyVet

(1,587 posts)
73. You'd be surprised how many calories you can eat.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 04:01 PM
Oct 2015

Once you cut out the junk -- the flour, sugar, rice and potatoes, mostly -- you get to fill up on veggies and meat, with enough natural fat for your body to stop saving it like we're next in line to starve to death. For most people, more calories means more weight loss, if the extra calories come from fat.

Carbs are killing me. I eat too much of them because it's the diet of the poor, and I can see and feel my body going downhill. I feel so good on low-carb it should be illegal. Bright mind, active body, happy personality.

loudsue

(14,087 posts)
107. Not-carbs that include meat also include all the steroids that are causing ANGER ISSUES
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:01 AM
Oct 2015

across the country. Some people don't do steroids too well, and ALL of our processed meat has steroids designed to make the meat/poultry animals grow bigger, faster.

And THEN we give everyone access to assault weapons.

What could possibly go wrong?

emmadoggy

(2,142 posts)
108. Yep. I'm with ya.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:09 AM
Oct 2015

Over the past 14 months, I have lost a little over 100 pounds. I did it by going very low carb, very low sugar, and tracking everything I eat. I lost 9 pounds in the first week. I had lost 60 pounds by the 5 month mark. It's been much slower in the second half of the year, but it's because I have gotten a little more lenient and complacent, and cheat a little too much.

But this way of eating has changed my life. Is it easy? Fuck no. It's still a challenge for me EVERY SINGLE DAY. I STILL have a terrible time resisting sweets and carby, starchy foods. I truly feel it's an addiction. But I KNOW what those foods do to me.

I haven't felt this good in years. My weight is now at a point I haven't seen in roughly 17-18 years. I KNOW I look a million times better and I definitely FEEL younger, healthier, and more energetic. I no longer have indigestion, heartburn, bloating, or gas like I did before. I don't feel like I'm tired all the time like before. I don't feel depressed like before.

Food is about 85% of weight loss. I have exercised some during this journey, but most people are surprised by how little. I'm sporadic about it. Sometimes I might go for a 30 minute walk a few times in a week. Other times, I do NOTHING. I've been using a kettlebell lately, but am sometimes lazy and skip that too. Exercise is important for health and fitness, but plays a much smaller role in weight loss than food. The biggest benefit, I believe, is that it boosts metabolism.

But our society and the way we live definitely do NOT make it easy to eat this way. I am confronted EVERY day with what I call "contraband". Eating out is often difficult or boring because it usually means another salad - sometimes I want HOT food! People at work bring in treats and snacks all the time - constant temptation. On the road and want to stop and get a quick snack on-the-go? Not much choice but some string cheese or plain/natural almonds (if you can find them). Maybe some meat sticks if you can find some without added sugar or other weird stuff.

We have to stop blaming people and find ways to change our food supply and make the natural, healthy stuff more affordable and available than the cheap, processed crap.



Nay

(12,051 posts)
128. What Emma said! It's useless to blame individual people because our whole culture
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:55 PM
Oct 2015

shoves bad food and bad habits at us at every turn, just for its own profit. It encourages everyone to eat 6 times a day (keeps your metabolism high!), to eat on the run; keeps crummy food low-priced (McDonald's) and good food high-priced (veg, fruit); extols a work culture of sitting 60 hrs a week; pays little attention to structural fixes that encourage exercise (sidewalks, local parks, bike paths, inexpensive gyms).

Why aren't healthier habits of all kinds encouraged by the culture? Because this culture is not a real culture -- it's a commercial venture in which any cultural habits of years past (eat only 3 meals a day of real food, desserts are for Sunday dinner) are wiped out if they interfere with profitmaking. The whipsawing effect of jerking people from one pole to another (from "you have to be skinny!" to "Have this KFC and a Blizzard shake too!&quot not only sells junk food, but also diet schemes, pills, exercise videos. The sellers win either way. The French, for example, have had a real culture that vilifies snacking and eating on the run, plus they walk a lot more, so they've avoided obesity up until now; a slow rise in weight is coinciding with the introduction of fast food outlets and the breakdown of the old ways.

Add in the huge rise in the number of kids who won't eat anything but chicken nuggets and French fries or other industrial food. I now know adults whose taste buds and food habits are so degraded that they still eat like toddlers (pizza, candy, chicken nuggets, etc). I'm 64 and that's new in my experience: adults in my childhood and early adulthood did not eat like that. This means that a whole generation has been turned away from what we would all call normal food, all so that industrial food producers can make tons of money.

You cannot expect the majority of the members of a 'culture' to ignore what its culture tells it to do. Every anthropologist and social worker knows this. The idea that we will all individually decide to dump a large part of our 'culture' is just a way to make it the fault of each individual, which allows the sellers to go their merry way.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
103. I think it's more complicated, especially when you throw metabolic issues into the mix such as
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:49 PM
Oct 2015

diabetes. I'm convinced that diabetes is a primary cause of my obesity and not a result of it. Well, I should say that I'm not convinced of the alternative.

https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes?language=en

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
35. There are differences in how our body uses fructose and glucose though
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:56 PM
Oct 2015

Also, there are studies working on the bacteria in our gut and how that relates to obesity.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
54. Yes, but those are both carbohydrates
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 02:49 PM
Oct 2015

Also, virtually nothing has 100% fructose or 100% glucose. The closest is sweeter fruits are mostly fructose. Most of the time, carbohydrates are in larger molecules like sucrose (aka "sugar", a glucose bound to a fructose).

HFCS, btw, is a mix of about 50% fructose, 50% glucose in order to imitate the mixture in sucrose.

Cosmocat

(14,560 posts)
38. Sugar is definitely enemy #1
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:07 PM
Oct 2015

I have always struggled with my weight my entire life.

I think beyond what was stated in this article that there are other genetic, chemical or whatever factors that help some people have less "craving" to eat, burn more energy, not retain or create fat, etc.

That said, I graduated from HS in the mid 80s, and the prevelent thought then was that fat was the enemy, and I spent most of my life avoiding fat, but leaning too hard on sugars.

I managed my weight, but was single most of that time and had a lifestyle to make it work.

I added 10 pounds for each person I brought into my life, my wife, both daughters and another 10 or so for good measure for the pets, because I could not longer live primarily around managing my weight.

About 5 years ago I saw a nutritionist and it helped me to come to jesus on my sugar intake.

It took me a yea to start to change my cravings, and you are right about the addiction, I am i a MUCH better place about my sugar cravings now having cut back for long enough.

My diet is different now, eating more lean protein, less suger and carbs. I can eat more and either maintain my weight or chip some off depending on how disciplined I am.

Wish I would have gotten the religion on sugar a lot earlier in life.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
66. Sugar is definitely my crack
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:38 PM
Oct 2015

I crave it. I have no idea how to kick it. I know when I have limited it in the past, my craving do change - and sweet things I normally enjoyed tasted too sweet.

But I am a stress eater and one relapse makes it so hard to start limiting it again

Congratulations on kicking it!

Qutzupalotl

(14,296 posts)
78. Suggestion...
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 05:23 PM
Oct 2015

Try reducing morning carbs and try to prolong the period before your first carbs of the day.

I used to eat cereal for breakfast every morning. But even unsweetened cereals become sugars when digested. Once I switched to eating two hard-boiled eggs instead, I started losing weight. I changed my mid-morning granola bar to a cheese stick, and the same with my mid-afternoon snack. Lunch is just a flatbread sandwich and some almond crackers. So I've been reducing carbs starting with morning meals and working up to eliminating sugars in the afternoon. The several-small-meal strategy keeps your metabolism higher than the rigid three large meals we are used to. You also prolong the period your body goes without sugar, so it burns a little stored fat.

This is a similar strategy to quitting cigarettes: you start by eliminating your first one of the day, then the next, and work up to the point when you can quit altogether.

Keep some cut celery handy for when you get the munchies.

Fruit sugar is still sugar, but it's a little better than candy because your body has to work to digest the fiber in an apple, thus expending calories.

I still snack at night because, come on, I'm human. I don't mind slowing down my progress with a few rewards if it means I can stay on the path overall. Better than rebelling, becoming discouraged, and stopping the diet altogether. Go easy on yourself. It's better in the long run.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
82. Thank you for such a thoughtful and helpful response
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 05:52 PM
Oct 2015

I need to remember it doesn't have to happen all at once and a little bit less today than yesterday is better than nothing.

One step at a time.

I have found that keeping healthy food nearby does help that snacking urge. I don't know if it helps with cigarettes, but having something sweet in the house (ahem emergency stash maybe) is better for me than not having anything. If there is nothing taboo in the house (like cookies, chocolate, etc), I freak out and crave it even more. If I have some chocolate in the freezer or something, I know its there, but it is not readily available.

I will take your advice about morning eating! I am a cereal person, but I am willing to switch it up to hardboiled eggs (love eggs).

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
87. I've gone on the one-cheat-a-week plan.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 06:34 PM
Oct 2015

One thing that I've found helpful is to set aside one day a week, say the weekend when you're gonna have a good time anyways, as a "cheat day" when you can eat sweets, go over the calorie budget, and relax for a bit. Helps you stay on the diet and exercise wagon for the rest of the week.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
125. Beans! Not the BPA-canned kind, but the kind you cook yourself. Beans with butter. Yum!
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:03 AM
Oct 2015

And I have eggs every day. Eggs have been my favorite food since childhood.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
127. mmm beans
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:02 PM
Oct 2015

I whip up batches in the crock pot regularly - pinto, black, garbanzo. I admit I have become a lazy cooker, esp in the summer. But now cooler weather is here and I am already craving chili and soups.

Love eggs - egg salad is my favorite food. Great now I am craving 2 stinky foods - lol!

emmadoggy

(2,142 posts)
109. Oh, me too!
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:18 AM
Oct 2015

See my post above. I've managed to lose a bunch of weight, but I still struggle with the sugar addiction to this day - even after a YEAR of low carb/low sugar! It is exactly like crack, to me - as you said! And when I cave and indulge, my brain responds immediately with signals of, "MORE! MORE! GIVE US MORE OF THAT STUFF!!"

I hate that my body is such a traitor in this way. I would love to be one of those people who just don't crave sugar or a lot of carby foods.

pnwmom

(108,972 posts)
76. So have the antibiotics we take from time to time. They use them in animals' feed to fatten them up
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 04:49 PM
Oct 2015

and it works for us, too.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/antibiotics-linked-weight-gain-mice/

Bacteria living naturally within the gut provide a gateway to flab, according to a few reports this week. These bacteria may explain how antibiotics fatten farm animals and perhaps people too, and how certain genes predispose organisms to obesity.

In a study published 22 August in Nature, researchers mimicked what farmers have been doing for decades to fatten up their livestock: they fed young mice a steady low dose of antibiotics. The antibiotics altered the composition of bacteria in the guts of the mice and also changed how the bacteria broke down nutrients. The bacteria in treated mice activated more genes that turn carbohydrates into short-chain fatty acids, and they turned on genes related to lipid conversion in the liver. Presumably, these shifts in molecular pathway enable fat build-up. Just as farm animals get fat, the antibiotic-fed mice put on weight.

Martin Blaser, a microbiologist at New York University in New York, says that parents might unknowingly be promoting a similar phenomenon when they treat common ailments and ear infections in their children. To back that idea up, he points to another study he authored. The study, published on 21 August, found that a disproportionate number of 11,000 kids in the United Kingdom who were overweight by the time they were 3 years old had taken antibiotics within their first 6 months of life.

Lilyhoney

(1,985 posts)
86. I have taken multiple doses of antibiotics
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 06:33 PM
Oct 2015

In the past two years for necessary reasons. I have also put on weight. This last week I started taking a probiotic and I already feel better. Less bloat so far. I am convinced it is working and that my gut has been off balanced. I buy organic dairy and meat as I always have. I know I am more sedentary than I had been prior to the weight gain. Now that the first draft of the novel I have been writing is printed, I will get away from the computer and be more active until I sit down for the rewrite. Oh. Gotta go. Pizza is here.

pnwmom

(108,972 posts)
105. Good luck!
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:51 PM
Oct 2015

My internist prescribes probiotics along with any antibiotics that are needed. And I know they help with the gas and other symptoms I get.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
99. That's also part of it
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:15 PM
Oct 2015

One thing I found interesting is on Canadian news last night they reported on a new study on how the bacteria that lives in a baby's gut predicts the likelihood of asthma developing as they get older. They theorize that it has a lot to do with how clean we keep our homes, and how children spend too much time inside now, so they can't colonize their gut with the necessary bacteria, but I'm surprised they didn't mention the increase in antibiotic use both in children and in our food supply.

IBS has also been linked to a disruption in the bacterial balance in the intestines. Obesity as well.

I have had IBS symptoms since I was 4. Developed asthma as a teen. Became obese in my early 20's. My mother kept a meticulous home and I had plenty of antibiotics for chronic tonsilitis back before 'resistance' was recognized as a problem. I was also not breastfed...and breastfeeding contributes to a healthy bacterial balance in a baby's gut.

I'm a shitty housekeeper, I breastfed my babies and we tried to avoid antibiotics unless absolutely necessary (my oldest is 18 and has been on antibiotics twice). None of my kids have IBS or have asthma. It remains to be seen if anyone will be obese since they are all not adults yet (which is when I became obese) but so far they are normal weights (2 are actually underweight slightly ETA my daughter who is the heaviest was also the one who had the most antibiotics and breastfed for the shortest amount of time).

Anecdotal, yes, but interesting to me.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
80. Keep going, Marrah! I can't even walk down the cereal aisle anymore, it smells sugary gross!
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 05:29 PM
Oct 2015

I've been OFF sugar for 3 months now! Don't crave it!

Mnemosyne

(21,363 posts)
3. Obesity rates have seemed to rise in correlation to the increasing amount of crap allowed in our
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:30 AM
Oct 2015

food. If hormones cause animals to plump up, why wouldn't it affect humans the same way?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
6. Because we have digestive tracts.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:40 AM
Oct 2015

Not many proteins can survive going through the stomach, and then the digestive enzymes in our small intestine. Usually, they're broken down to amino acids, destroying whatever function the protein had.

It is possible to get a functional protein through with some extra work, which is why some hormone treatments can be given as pills.

Human growth hormone (what the baseball players were abusing) has to be given as a shot because it can't survive our digestive tract. Presumably, "cow growth hormone" would behave similarly to human growth hormone. I'm not aware of any studies showing the contrary.

get the red out

(13,460 posts)
29. You've got that right!
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:46 PM
Oct 2015

They just have more sugar.

There is so much sugar in food now that I had trouble finding a brand of kidney beans, without added sugar, to put in my chili a couple of weeks ago. Why do we need sugar added to a can of beans??????

GeorgeGist

(25,315 posts)
4. A bunch of speculation, which the Kuk made clear ...
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:34 AM
Oct 2015

but you seem to have discounted and accepted as fact.

niyad

(113,205 posts)
8. so you discount all the research referenced in the article? are you okay with the "it's all your
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:43 AM
Oct 2015

fault" mindset?

progressoid

(49,961 posts)
67. She admits "the explanations are still only hypotheses"
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:39 PM
Oct 2015

the fault mindset notwithstanding, it's conjecture.

niyad

(113,205 posts)
5. in the documentary "designing healthy communities", one of the points made was that the
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:40 AM
Oct 2015

way in which our communities are designed, specifically around cars, with little thought for pedestrians, with little or no thought for community/village interaction, is another contributing factor to poor health, obesity, etc.

http://designinghealthycommunities.org/

appalachiablue

(41,113 posts)
41. +1.I read that people who live in suburbs are 6-10 lbs. heavier than folks in the city or country.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:12 PM
Oct 2015

I'd say more like 15+ lbs. which is a real shame. Constant driving, stressful commutes, sedentary lifestyles, lack of walking, no sidewalks but plenty of drive through fast food restaurants and sitting at a computer or TV after work isolated is a hazardous lifestyle. It's ruining our health, like the many toxins in food, packaging, household and personal products and even meds.
I'll check out the documentary, thanks.

On health, there was a British news article about 6 months ago that said getting cancer was just your bad luck. Couldn't believe that.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
89. I agree with this whole heartedly. We live in the suburbs
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 06:47 PM
Oct 2015

and there is no where to walk to - no coffee shop, little book store, pharmacy, cafe - nothing. And there are no sidewalks. Which sucks.
I have 2 dogs and walk them in the middle of the night because we are next to a very busy road. There are no sidewalks or paths to walk. My choices are: walk on the side of a busy road (made worse in the winter with snowbanks on the grassy sides), walk at night, or pack up the dogs in the car and drive 5 miles to a park to walk them.

When I was in college and law school, I had no car and it was fine... I walked everywhere and could get everything I needed nearby. I lost weight and was a lot healthier. Now I am surrounded by cul de sacs and I miss being able to just walk somewhere.

I like to have a destination to walk to - makes it seem less like exercise and more like fun (yes, I know that sounds silly).

niyad

(113,205 posts)
93. nothing silly about your last statement at all--that is one of the reasons that mall walk groups
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:42 PM
Oct 2015

were so popular. having fun, getting exercise, seeing people, and window-shopping all at the same time.

 

MindfulOne

(227 posts)
7. Thank you. It's hard to live a healthy life, hard to find foods, avoid toxins...
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:43 AM
Oct 2015

Hey, did you see Ida Briggs' work on trace elements and premature births?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027215737

She's a real fighter and stumbled on some important medical advances that she hopes will get greater exposure.

admiringly,
MindfulOne

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
10. A lot of people think "hormone problems" are just an excuse.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:50 AM
Oct 2015

They are real. There are millions of people, mostly women, with undiagnosed and/or undertreated hypothyroidism issues. The most common form is an autoimmune disease. Autoimmune diseases run in families.

It really messes with your mind when my mother spent years screeching at me, "You don't eat enough to keep a bird alive!" and trying to make me eat foods I just can't stand or am allergic to, when I was young and small, and then dropping hints at me later when I was a grown up about losing weight.

And then there's always some physics major who thinks human digestive chemistry is like a simple in and out physics equation. It's not.




LittleGirl

(8,282 posts)
45. Yep
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:36 PM
Oct 2015

same in our family. 90% of the women have thyroid problems, either graves or hashimoto's disease. The men got celiacs and heart disease. Lots of cancer in the older family members that have died from it too.

Low carb, high protein worked for me after gaining 50 lbs in one year. I lost it all and then some but it took years and massive diet changes to achieve. I followed the auto immune protocol for 2 yrs and finally healed my gut.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
92. That's good!
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:42 PM
Oct 2015

I have not heard of the autoimmune protocol. I will have to check it out.

I tried the South Beach Diet. The first two weeks it's all protein and fat, and absolutely NO carbs at all. I lost weight but I was hungry all the time, and couldn't handle it. Even after a few hours of no carbs I could tell that I was getting hungry.

My mother had preadolescent Hashimoto's, I got the same thing at the same age, and grandmother had an overactive thyroid and thought everybody else was lazy because they needed to sleep later than 6:30 on weekends. I was afraid of getting rheumatoid arthritis because my mom's cousin had a severe case of it, but so far the arthritis hasn't shown up.

I read recently that endometriosis has an autoimmune component to it.

LittleGirl

(8,282 posts)
113. Yes
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:21 AM
Oct 2015

I had endometriosis as well. My mother is nearly crippled with arthritis too. She can barely hold a pen in her hands. All of them can be "managed" better by diet. No cure of course, but the symptoms are less severe once you heal the gut. It's believed that all auto immune conditions start in the gut.

First I read "The Practical Paleo" book and then I got the "auto immune protocol cookbook" by Mickey Prescott. Both books taught me nutrition and how to heal leaky gut. It worked. I've never felt this good in my life and I'm 55.

Deadshot

(384 posts)
12. Everyone seems to glanced over this phrase:(the explanations are still only hypotheses)
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:57 AM
Oct 2015

This is why the media sucks. They post stories about hypotheses being fact before they even get debated and studied.

Wounded Bear

(58,618 posts)
37. And, of course they compound the problem...
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:57 PM
Oct 2015

by saying shit like "it's only a theory."

Sensationalism masking as science reporting.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
13. For the overwhelming majority of people, healthy eating and exercise is enough
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:06 PM
Oct 2015

Not everybody, but most people. Eat more fruit and vegetables and less sugar. I get that it's hard. I suck at it, junk food is quick, easy and readily available. We made crappy food generally faster and easier than good food.

But eating an apple doesn't take any time to prepare. But how many of us eat fruits/vegetables with every meal? I don't always, and I eat better than a lot of people.

How many of us eat way more than we should? The average portion of everything has gone up at the same time our exercise level has dropped.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
30. Lean meats are pretty much just as good. I ate an apple, 4 chicken breasts, 2 buns, 2 pieces of
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:47 PM
Oct 2015

cheese, and a candy bar every day for 2 months. Also drank a lot of diet dr pepper and ran 5 miles a day and lifted weights. 225 to 195 in under 60 days at 6'2"

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
124. everyone has a different metabolism. My husband had a heart attack 4 and half months ago so
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 10:29 AM
Oct 2015

we have started eating vegetarian. My husband has gone vegan but I still have an occasional piece of chicken, fish, or turkey and I still have a moderate amount of low fat dairy. I eat a whole grain breakfast and usually eat a salad for lunch. I also jog a couple times a week. I lost a little over 30 pounds but am still about 20 pounds heavier than I was in high school. My body burns food at a slower rate than others.

 

Chakab

(1,727 posts)
14. Calories in, calories out is a bunch of propaganda created by the food industry.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:08 PM
Oct 2015

Last edited Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Your body does not treat calories from carbohydrates the same way that it treats calories from protein or fats. A lot of the obesity issues are down due to sugar consumption and the misguided war on fats. In many cases "low fat" foods are less healthy because sugar is added to compensate for the removal of fat. Consumption of fat provokes a hormonal response that makes you feel full. On the other hand, eating excessive amounts of carbohydrates will make you even hungrier.

Artificial sweeteners are also to blame. The ones made from sugar alcohols still contain carbohydrates even though they are labelled "zero calories." That means that your body still treats them like simple sugars and burns them before it burns through its fat stores.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
59. No, actually your body does treat the calories the same
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:17 PM
Oct 2015

In the end, it all gets turned into ATP.

Where simple carbohydrates vs complex carbohydrates/proteins/fats differs is how fast we can burn them. The more complex molecules take much longer to digest, so you feel "full" longer. Simple carbohydrates digest very quickly, so you get a spike of energy, which quickly collapses and you feel hungry again.

Keep in mind, the "war on fats" was started from a study in the 1960s. A nearly identical study in the 1990s has started the "war on carbs". If the first study was so wrong, we should probably be a bit cautious about assuming the second one is correct.

Artificial sweeteners are also to blame. The ones made from sugar alcohols still contain carbohydrates even though they are labelled "zero calories." That means that your body still treats them like simple sugars and burns them before it burns through its fat stores.

Not quite.

First, most artificial sweeteners are not "sugar alcohols". Saccharine and aspartame (NutraSweet) aren't sugar-derived and do not behave as sugar when digested.

Sucralose (Splenda) is a large ring with a several sugar molecules attached. The enzyme we use to break down sugar can't attach to the sugar molecules because of the ring. In the majority of people, that means the Sucralose...leaves out the back door, shall we say. Some bacteria are able to break the ring. If you have those bacteria in your gut, you will get some sugar, and thus calories, from sucralose. Those bacteria is also why some people report "digestive issues" after eating food with sucralose - the bacteria are thriving on the sucralose.

The main way artificial sweeteners can hurt is if you don't consume anything with calories. Let's say you drink a Diet Coke (aspartame). Your body detects the incoming sweet, and says "Hey, we're about to get a bunch of sugar. Go ahead and release some stored sugar into the bloodstream". Then you don't get the sugar, because aspartame isn't sugar. That causes you to feel hungry, as your body seeks to replace the released sugar. If you eat something along with that Diet Coke, you'll have received some sugars and not have this effect.

MasonDreams

(756 posts)
15. I think the "Industry" is to blame. Marketing and Buisness practices.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:26 PM
Oct 2015

Add up all the corruption and deceit its enough to make you sick.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
20. Huge amount of calories in the sugars and carbs.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:33 PM
Oct 2015

When I'm successfully dieting, I have to do things like cut back on the soda, knock off the junk food, try to eat some real food instead.

I've also never been a fan of artificial sweeteners. Mostly because I find artificially sweetened sodas and such to taste nasty, but also because if I remember right, it screws with your metabolism, fooling your body into thinking it's ingested something sweet and energy rich, when it hasn't so your body responds, possibly with cravings.

So when I do eat something sweet, I go for stuff with real sugar.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
25. I run on diet dr pepper and i was able to lose 1/2 a pound a day for 2 months last year. I also
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:43 PM
Oct 2015

wasnt even that overweight, went from 225 to 195 on a 6'2 frame and I lift weights so I have extra muscle.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
17. I won't say that calories is the only part of the equation. But it's a huge part.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:30 PM
Oct 2015

For me, working my diet and exercise to make sure I burn more calories than I eat works. Dieting and exercising to keep my weight under control is for me is the easiest and hardest thing I do.

It's easy in that it is literally as simple as burn more than you eat. It's hard in that there are psychological and physiological barriers. Exercise is always going to be rough, as I am not naturally athletic, and I've been working through a nasty case of runner's knee, and I have to make myself do it. Dieting is hard in that I have to count my calories, and refrain from temptations, while always having a bit of hunger. I am, after all, deliberately starving myself, knowing that my body will tap into the old fat reserves to make up the calorie deficit - that's the point, after all.

I do understand that for a lot of people, controlling weight is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for the psychological and physiological reasons.

PatSeg

(47,351 posts)
18. I've been avoiding
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:31 PM
Oct 2015

major food brands the past few years and buy organic whenever possible. Our food supply has been severely compromised the past decade or so. I've never seen so many serious food allergies in my life! In order to survive, we have to take control of our diets.

I wonder, are the Monsanto-bots going to show up for this thread?

WestCoastLib

(442 posts)
22. Make the base of your meals (60%) Vegatables. You will lose weight.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:39 PM
Oct 2015

But that can't be a "diet" suggestion. It has to be how you think about eating from now on. And of course, you must get a decent amount of exercise too.

No. That won't work for "everyone". There are a small number of people which have other conditions that will make it even harder for them to lose weight. However, that percentage is very small.

It's not easy. Especially when you have spent decades getting used to eating what most of us do. There aren't even very many vegetables that I like. I have forced myself to eat a number of hated vegetables until I can now put up with them at least. But, if you can make 60%, or so, of what you consume vegetables, you will lose weight (and be healthier).

Most grocery stores sell vegetable trays for about half the cost of a fast food meal. Eat them for lunch. It will do wonders for you.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
33. I've also been following some of the fitness and bodybuilding circles.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:53 PM
Oct 2015

Mr. Universe I am not, but they have useful advice.

On top of cutting sweets and carbs, and eating more fruits and vegetables, I found personally that I wasn't getting enough protein.

Bodybuilders will do bulking and cutting cycles. When they bulk, they deliberately eat more than they burn, with a protein-heavy diet, and pound the hell out of the weights at the gym, to induce their bodies to build muscle. Of course, some of those extra calories get stored as fat, so after bulking for a while, they go into a cut cycle, where they go on an old fashioned calorie-restriction diet, exercise, but not as hard, maybe switching to more cardio, and burn off the extra fat. But even on the cut cycles, the rule is to eat lots of protein. Too little protein, and the muscle bulk you've worked hard to build is lost.

It does help when some of the pounds I've put on are in the form of muscle.

I will also say that if you really want to lose weight, exercise is absolutely necessary. Yes, it's technically possible to lose weight sitting on your couch, and taking in fewer calories than you burn, even if the calories you take in are in the form of Twinkies. Practically, if you try that, you'll drive yourself crazy, and you'll fall off the wagon.

Eat right, cut the carbs, eat more veggies, and get a proper balance of the macros - carbs (you have to have some, just not too much), fat (same as with carbs) and protein (I had to adjust to eat more protein). Make sure you're restricting your calories, so track everything you eat, count your calories, and watch your portion sizes - it's easy to eat double what you think you're eating if you're not measuring and keeping track.

And hit the gym! Or do something that involves pushing your body hard and sweating. If you're not sweating, you're not doing it right. Cardio is good. Running, biking, even walking is very efficient at burning calories. Hitting the weights is also good, though it doesn't really burn much in calories, but it builds up your muscles, which over time increases your metabolism. But exercise also gives you a psychological boost that among other things, helps you stay on the diet wagon. Gotta love that dopamine & endorphin high.

C Moon

(12,212 posts)
36. A married couple (friends of mine) went gluten free and stayed with it....
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:56 PM
Oct 2015

I hardly recognized them when we met up months later.
They'd lost so much weight—and have kept it up for years.
I realize this doesn't back up the post, but I just wanted to share.

LittleGirl

(8,282 posts)
47. I had to go gluten AND diary free
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:39 PM
Oct 2015

to lose weight and that's because I'm intolerant of both. I'm also mostly sugar free (honey in decaf) and soy free as well.

low carb worked for me.

hibbing

(10,095 posts)
39. Poverty
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:10 PM
Oct 2015

From my understanding, poverty also has a large impact. You can get a lot more calories eating a lot of cheaper and unhealthy food.

Peace

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
43. And a lot of poor neighborhoods are food deserts.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:28 PM
Oct 2015

Go to the rougher areas of town, you'll see a few convenience stores full of junk food, and not much produce. You'll also see the usual predators on the poor - liquor stores, payday loan shops, pawn shops...

But often, you will not see a proper full-sized grocery store.

People have to eat, but if they're poor, they don't have a car, they don't want to bum a ride from a friend, and they have to figure out how to get a load of groceries from the nearest grocery store, which is five miles away. Ever try doing that on public transportation? Most people don't have the energy or patience. So they get the crap from the neighborhood convenience stores.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
40. A load of pet theories here, my anecdote
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:10 PM
Oct 2015

In 1994 my spouse and I spent a month in rural County Cork Ireland. We ate everything, fresh baked goods slathered with local butter, fish and chips, salmon cooked in many ways, porter cake, apple flan with heaps of fresh whipped cream, pints and pints of stout, vegetables and fruits in season and cheeses from local producers. At the time back in the states I was bicycling 150 miles a week, I did hire (rent) a bicycle in Ireland for the 1st 2 weeks but I did not cycle like at home. My wife did no more walking than at home.

Here's the mystery- we both lost a stone (13 pounds), that came back to roost shortly after returning home and to our highly processed and long time storage diet.

I have no real explanation but I lean to that all the food we ate was local and fresh. I think that some changes in food that has been in storage triggers a famine response to the metabolism. This would be a survival trait for the "starving time" which comes in spring and early summer for primitive peoples.

Are there other factors- I would bet on it.

One other anecdote, we have raised dairy goats for nearly 40 years and have observed that some of our girls are "easy keepers" who get fat easily, others never have a gram of extra flesh and can eat us out of house and home. The latter are the ones that put lots of mile in the pail.

Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #40)

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
51. I have sport horses and agree, the differing metabolism is a huge factor
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:56 PM
Oct 2015

its not just calories in, calories out.

I have a massive Warmblood eating a handful of grain and minimal hay, while the 14h pony - on the very same type of grain and hay - needs twice that. Thoroughbreds of roughly the same build, height and weight who are doing the exact same work with the exact same guy, and the feed protocol is wildly different for each of them.

I'm extremely skeptical a simplistic @ calories in, calories out. It doesn't bear out my experience of 25 years and managing a few hundred horses.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
58. You made me remember about some friends' horses
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:09 PM
Oct 2015

They had 3; a thoroughbred mare, a half Arab/thoroughbred gelding and a 12 Arab/? mare. The thoroughbred mare had to eat an enormous amount of grain to not look like a bag of bones, the gelding 1/2 that and the little mare wasn't allowed any grain or she ended up being a butterball.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
129. Oo, oo, I have a similar story. EVERY TIME Mr Nay and I go on vacation, we lose
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:31 PM
Oct 2015

weight. We went to a Mexican all-inclusive resort with all fresh food; we ate plenty and had lost 5 pounds in a week. It was amazing. Had the same experience in backwoods Canada -- lots of fish, vegs, not much else. Lost weight there, too. Went to Brazil where we ate locally, ate at por kilo restaurants(you pay by the kilo!), lost 8 pounds in 2 weeks.

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
44. For most people, it's calories in - calories out
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:34 PM
Oct 2015

Yes, there are biological and hormonal factors, but it's hard to say that's the case for most people or why America in general is a mess.

I'm a fitness nut and former pudgy after spending my 20s in a desk job, now 6 mornings a week at the gym, active in fitness communities online and off. The golden rule almost always applies - what you get out of your body is profoundly affected by what you put in.

More and more, we're discovering that the kinds of calories you put in do matter to a degree. That's why most serious fitness/nutrition programs will now be concerned about macro nutrients - proteins/carbs/fats. Not shockingly, if you're looking to seriously trim down your weight, you're going to be watching your carb intake like a hawk.

We're also probably not getting enough protein.

But, at the end of the day, people who want to lose weight calculate their TDEE and eat under it. This works for nearly every person I'm in contact with. Strength training helps with resting metabolism. When I want something unhealthy, I make sure I run enough to burn the calories. I've had weeks where I just didn't have chicken and vegetables in me, so I monitored the calorie count of all the crappy stuff I was eating and made sure I was under my calories. Still lost weight (although tons of carbs and salt will cause water retention like whoa).

The only consistently successful path I've seen with weight management is calorie tracking. My Fitness Pal is amazing for it. People just don't really catch how much they are consuming. Just last week, I was talking with a friend who is constantly complaining about how thin he is (5'8", 125 lbs). He lifts weights, but finds he loses a pound or two rather than gaining. I started asking him what he was eating all day, and sure enough, he was consuming maybe 2,000 calories most days. With a TDEE of 2,800 calories, of course he couldn't gain weight. But he thought he was eating tons! (turns out, he just ate vegetables mostly all day with a little bit of protein).

Similar with friends trying to lose. Add up what they're eating and drinking, and usually they're way over where they think they are.

Annnnnyway. All of this isn't to discount the OP entirely. It's amazing in the 21st Century that we still don't have as firm a handle on human nutrition and metabolism as you'd hope we would. But articles like this bother me a little bit, because I think it lets people off the hook for the poor choices they're making. I don't like the word "blaming" or "shaming", because I don't want to do either of those things to anyone who wants to live healthier. I'd rather we just discussed it in terms of cause and effect. "If you are at a desk all day, and you eat these things, you will not lose weight." I'm more about being supportive than excusing poor lifestyle choices.

Signed,

Guy Who Just Ate the Shit Out of a McGriddle.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
84. There's danger in floating conjecture which contradicts "calories in - calories out"
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 06:17 PM
Oct 2015

Essentially the OP is telling people that diet and exercise don't work for weight loss based on half-fast conjecture about pesticides, plastics, and other nutty ideas.

The only consistently successful path I've seen with weight management is calorie tracking.


Absolutely true and verified by countless studies. Diet and exercise work just as well today as they always have.
 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
46. Sigh...
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:37 PM
Oct 2015

Let's be clear here...

The Washington Post today called out the "it's all about diet and exercise so it's your own fault" fat-shamers with the evidence of a new study indicating what a lot of us have known for a long time.


It IS still all about diet and exercise and nothing in the study changes that.

That is not to say that every person requires the same diet and exercise to achieve the same results or that losing or gaining weight happen as easily for all people. OF COURSE there are other factors that influence things. But the bottom line cannot be altered... if the level of exercise you sustain over the long term results in you burning more energy than your sustained diet provides you're dropping weight.

Nobody on earth has a magic body that can defy the laws of physics. Nobody creates matter or energy from nothing. Nobody has a perpetual energy machine body. Nobody.

People can vary in how efficiently they process the food they eat, how high their metabolisms are and how easily they burn calories, how readily their body will burn fat reserves, what environmental conditions they live under... and all of those things can absolutely influence how easy or difficult it is to maintain a healthy weight... but NOBODY is immune to the basic physical reality that if you maintain a regimen where your output exceeds your intake you will lose weight.

Period.

Everything this article speaks of is about influences on level of difficulty, not POSSIBILITY, of losing weight. It does not change the fundamental truth that there is no such thing as a person that can't lose weight through sufficient effort controlling their diet and activity level if they want to do that. It only explains in greater detail what all the factors that influence the definition of "sufficient" are.

TygrBright

(20,755 posts)
61. Sigh...
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:29 PM
Oct 2015

Indeed, let's be clear.

Did you read the concluding line of the OP?

>>The solution to the obesity epidemic lies as much in changing our economy and our culture as in promoting changes in individual behavior.<<

I believe we may actually be in fundamental agreement here.

But the important point remains: Fat-shaming and blaming do more to increase stress, depression, and prolonged obesity, than to promote behavioral changes. Changing the culture and the economy to maximize the availability of healthy, inexpensive, quality food pleasant forms of exercise linked to social well-being and connection, etc., will do more to promote positive changes in individual behavior.

Reflexively assuming that exploring and understanding the complexity of factors contributing to the obesity epidemic is a denial of basic metabolic science and/or some kind of "letting fatties off the hook" does little to promote a more balanced, effective approach to this serious and pervasive public health issue.

consistently,
Bright

Deadshot

(384 posts)
65. It seems as though people are looking for ways to blame everything but themselves
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:36 PM
Oct 2015

for their obesity problem.

I cut calories and work out every day. Boom. I lost weight. Fairly simple, really.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
50. As a yo-yo dieter all my 59 years, I decided 5 years ago to change my life and my diet because I was
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:49 PM
Oct 2015

destined for the inevitable heart attack after a Diabetes diagnosis.

I lost 153 lbs. and have kept it off. I weigh 25 lbs. less than when I was 18.

I got off my ass and built my exercise tolerance all the way up to walking 3 miles a day. I cut my carb intake to almost nothing, increased my veggie and good fats. I lost 40 lbs. the first month and I wasn't hungry. At all. Ever. That's why it worked.

My diabetic a1C blood test that measures the average last 3 months blood sugar is 5.0, which is normal. My lipid profile is normal. My blood pressure is normal. I take no pharmaceuticals. I do take 3 fish oil capsules every day, as well as a magnesium supplement, since our food is so deficient.

You may be wondering what I eat - some eggs, some meat, lots of veggies, butter, coconut and olive oil, cheese, yogurt, cashews, cottage cheese, all full fat. I have a couple prunes now and then. I eat a LOT of Greek salads. I have accepted that I must eat this way if I want to live a normal lifespan. It's not a problem because I'm NOT HUNGRY. My husband eats normally, so I'll have a bite here and there of his mashed potatoes or banana. Carbs and sugar are poisonous to me.

It wasn't hard to do or I would've given up long ago. What's hard is keeping my mouth shut when people try to force their food on me. Not that I would eat it, but I get angry and want to tell them to stuff it. Literally.

My doctor is amazed and said, "It's time to revisit our nutritional recommendations, because in your case, they're dead wrong." I stopped eating meals and eat something every hour or so.

That being said, we're all different. My obese niece tried it and failed to lose anything except a few pounds of water. But she isn't post-menopausal, and everyone knows that estrogen will keep the weight on.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
57. my mom and i always talk about how in india every once in a while you'll get some GI disease
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:09 PM
Oct 2015

and drop a bunch of weight, and how that never happens here, allowing us to get fatter every year. dont get me wrong, i love the idea of clean drinking water, but i bet that something as great as that contributes to weight gain.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
90. Your assertion isn't found in your link
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 06:53 PM
Oct 2015

You are stating as fact something your link doesn't. For one thing, the mice in the study were fed a constant supply of antibiotics, just like in the case of livestock. The human microbiome actually recovers very quickly after the cessation of antibiotics.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3422777/

For another mice aren't people and there are all sorts of differences not the least of which are diet, digest, and metabolism. As your link says, a lot more research is needed before any definitive conclusions may be made. It's just not as simple as giving mice a constant supply of antibiotics and concluding the exact same thing happens to humans which aren't given a constant supply of antibiotics. There may be something to what Blaser claims, but there also may be nothing to what he claims. Blaser is not without his critics. He makes all sorts of claims like antibiotics cause cancer which are quite dubious.

http://phylogenomics.blogspot.com/2014/05/overselling-microbiome-award-time.html

PasadenaTrudy

(3,998 posts)
60. I've been happier since I put on weight
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:22 PM
Oct 2015

believe it or not! I went through menopause and gained a lot of weight and now men no longer stare and holler at me. It is such a relief! I'm an extreme introvert and have always hated attention, especially when I'm just trying to take a walk. I walk more now because I'm invisible and my bp is the lowest it has ever been.

killbotfactory

(13,566 posts)
71. perhaps we should subsidize local fruits and veggies instead of corn?
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 03:55 PM
Oct 2015

...but then how would anyone win the Iowa primary?

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
77. I'm 91 and fit, and I will tell you how
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 04:55 PM
Oct 2015

Ready:

1. Select parents that lived over 100. This is about 50% of the problem.

The rest is in your control. Here is what I do:

1. I have never smoked, except in France during WWII.
2. I have always been a weight lifter. I pick things up and put them down. And not little things. Big ugly iron weights from the 1950s.
3. I have never jogged in my life.
4. I have walked a whole heck of a lot.
5. I do sprint intervals. I rand 4 400 meters today, walking between sprints. I also flipped a tire for fun.
6. I take stairs up and elevators down.
7. I garden a lot.

8. I drink 3 days a week (used to have a problem with that).

9. I eat a LOT of protein. Mainly fish and dairy products. But also beef and lamb. No shellfish or pork, but then I am Jewish. How much protein? 1 g of protein per lean pound of body weight. Been doing this since the 1960s.

10. I go to bed very early and get up around 5.

11. I drink coffee all day. And lots of water. Sometimes I drink a cup of coffee at night and go back to bed.

12. I am religious and have a reason to get up in the AM.

13. Any time I start getting fat, I stop drinking and cut back on sweets, and up my exercise by an extra hour or two a week.

Vitamins? An aspirin, fish oil, 400iu D, 200 CoQ10, something from tomatoes whose name I forget, DHEA, pregnalone, 1000 mgs Vit C, a probiotic, and L-Arganine.

People mistake me for being 30 years younger than I am, all the time.

underahedgerow

(1,232 posts)
111. You've nailed it! Move more, eat less. Enjoy what you do, and when it starts creeping up,
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:36 AM
Oct 2015

cut back. The walking is THE best thing you can do, and it brings so much joy. I walk my feet to the nubs when I'm working in Paris and enjoy every aching meter of it... some 8-10 kms a day. I love coffee, it's my staple beverage too, sadly, that and water.. I have a cola maybe once a week.

I eat cake. I love cake, my cake! This week it's my banana cake.

I'm limited on the stairs thing, I have a condition with very lax ligaments so I've ruined out all my knee, hip and ankle joints, so while pain is my constant companion, I still keep walking and dope up with ibu when needed. Since I don't drink much at all, I can eat more sweets, lol yay for me!

But yeah, like you said.... I look at least 20 years younger than my 55 year old self. No grey hair, totally natural dark blonde, no wrinkles, not even fine lines. I vigorously avoid the sun with hats and sleeves and sun block, but the age spots on my hands are distressing! I weigh the same as I did when I was 25. I ballooned up during menopause and had to seriously cut back on my 3 meals a day, but thanks to that, I eat better than ever. Never anything from a box, fresh bread (viva la France), never that plastic crap... fruits, veg, greek yogurt, my beloved cake 2-3 times a week... meat 3 times a week. My main meal is lunch, usually limited to no more than 500 calories and dinner is something very small, usually an apple... Apples make the best snacks!

This gives me the opportunity to indulge in a big eating day every couple weeks with no guilt. And like you, when the pants get too tight, I cut back for a couple weeks. I do the 2/5 thing where I eat no more than 500 calories a day 2 days a week. It's good for the gut to starve itself a little bit. Granny Smith apples specifically work well on balancing gut bacteria btw.

Love the gardening, I'm renovating a huge garden for a client these days, with lots of stone work, heavy lifting. It destroys my hands but Arnaca cream is wonderful. I don't rush the lifting, take my time and it all gets done. I'm restoring and rebuilding stone walls and recreating some mucked up stone stairs and paths. I love the physical activity so much....

It's about portion control, isn't it? Gigantic plates covered in masses of food... what for? It's expensive and makes me want to vomit. Gallons of soda? Ugh, that stuff is nasty and rots your insides, whether it's diet or sugar. I don't even drink juice much, it's too sweet... water is life.

A portion of any food should be no bigger than your hand. Each portion should be no more than 100 grams. Lots of beans and rice, I love pasta and cream sauces, tomato sauces, curries, stews, scones, pancakes, crepes, baquettes, cookies, tray bakes, brownies. I eat it all, but I only eat a little! Lots of seafood, love a good scampi! Butter, sugar, eggs, milk, no problem, it's all about the quality of what's going in the belly and how much.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
79. Sugar, artificial ingredients, pesticides, gmos, chemicals, lack of living organisms beneficial
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 05:27 PM
Oct 2015

organisms in our food, poor water quality, poor air quality, viruses, leaky gut, and many many more...

Here come the chemical company, big ag, poison defenders.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
85. Sure, because anyone who dares contradict pseudoscience nonsense
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 06:22 PM
Oct 2015

...must be on the payroll of "big ag", while the purveyors of coffee enema detox protocols are being unfairly maligned by the media.

madville

(7,408 posts)
83. I dropped about 20 pounds when
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 05:58 PM
Oct 2015

I gave up alcohol, red meat, gluten, dairy and saturated fat.

I eat a pretty basic diet these days, fruits, vegetables (no potatoes), legumes, nuts, poultry/fish and olive oil.

I think a major positive factor is that I get 20-30 grams of fiber a day from my diet and I eat 6-10 "meals" a day around 150-200 calories, as many of the vegetables raw as I can. I also drink lots of water, black coffee and unsweetened tea.

Response to TygrBright (Original post)

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
120. Cost is what? Howmany jobs do you work?
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:10 AM
Oct 2015

It's always nice when the wags show up to shake their fingers at others and share their air of moral superiority with others

zalinda

(5,621 posts)
110. Another study chimes in about
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:27 AM
Oct 2015

calories in, calories out.

Why It Was Easier to Be Skinny in the 1980s

A study published recently in the journal Obesity Research & Clinical Practice found that it’s harder for adults today to maintain the same weight as those 20 to 30 years ago did, even at the same levels of food intake and exercise.

The authors examined the dietary data of 36,400 Americans between 1971 and 2008 and the physical activity data of 14,419 people between 1988 and 2006. They grouped the data sets together by the amount of food and activity, age, and BMI.

They found a very surprising correlation: A given person, in 2006, eating the same amount of calories, taking in the same quantities of macronutrients like protein and fat, and exercising the same amount as a person of the same age did in 1988 would have a BMI that was about 2.3 points higher. In other words, people today are about 10 percent heavier than people were in the 1980s, even if they follow the exact same diet and exercise plans.


http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/09/why-it-was-easier-to-be-skinny-in-the-1980s/407974/?utm_source=yahoo


Z

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
122. I don't profess to know much about gut bacteria and such
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 10:09 AM
Oct 2015

But this much I do know - caloric restriction, even modest restriction, works ...

My story, in a nutshell:

I've been overweight most of my adult life, and morbidly obese for the last twenty or so years.

Watching PBS, they were broadcasting a documentary from the BBC Horizons series, in this case, 'Eat, Fast and Live Longer', with Dr Michael Moseley ... I was inspired to try the Dr's 5:2 Fast Diet ..

2 days a week, I eat 600 calories maximum, typically using less calorically dense foods like veggies and low cal fruits, along with some nuts and tofu for protein and healthy fats ...I do not starve, as I always have some food in my system ...

I also started a weight training program using simple barbells and including at least five miles if walking a day (I use transit - no problem getting at least that much walking)

I'm down nearly 100 lbs in 2.5 years ...

I'm the healthiest I've been in decades ...

Caloric restriction works for me, in a big way ...

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