Pope’s Meeting with Kim Davis Should Be Read ‘Cautiously’

[onehandle]

Matt Malone, S.J.: We have this morning, this story breaking in The New York Times and elsewhere about this meeting which may have taken place between the pope and Kim Davis, the American elected official who objects as a matter of conscience to signing marriage certificates for same-sex couples. What do you make of this story, Gerry?

Gerard O’Connell: Look, I’ve been on many papal trips over the years and in many visits, there is an official program, and then there’s also many people, a lot of people, who want to meet the pope—or some bishop, or some cardinal, who thinks that [the pope] should meet this [person] and that one. And this happens. It is less scheduled, but people have found moments to fit in. On this trip he met quite a few different people to the best of my knowledge, also in Cuba. But this doesn’t mean that the pope is fully briefed on whom he is meeting. For example, when he went down to Madison Square Garden, he met some people there. You think the pope knew full well the whole background of the [people he met]? On the plane, he began his [comments] on the right to conscientious objection by saying, I do not know all the cases.

The many reports that I have seen in the media have eliminated this first line. And I think in a situation like this, somebody would have proposed [the meeting] to [the pope] and said it’s a good thing to meet this person. How much information they gave the pope is another question.

And so I think one has to read these private meetings cautiously….the Vatican has said we are not going to deny the meeting took place, but they are…playing it down quite considerably, because this kind of event tends to get blown up by one side or another for their own political purposes. And the pope, we saw very strongly in his speech to the Congress, he wants to overcome the polarization.

http://papalvisit.americamedia.org/2015/10/01/popes-meeting-with-kim-davis-should-be-read-cautiously/

[virtualobserver]

1. his discomfort with english put him at a decided disadvantage

networks will do anything for a buck

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. 'Networks'?

What 'networks' are you talking about? And how did these networks make money off this? And what has that you do with the pope's standard of English?

[virtualobserver]

19. ABC had an exclusive interview with Kim Davis so that she could breathlessly express....

the pope's words to her. Money in the bank.

It would be easy for someone in the US Catholic Church to arrange a meeting with the pope

The pope demoted a US Archbishop for his strident anti-LGBT rhetoric...

someone sympathetic with that very strong faction could have set up this meeting with the pope with the intent of undermining him......and he have no idea what he knew about her.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. So you think that ABC got someone to arrange the meeting so that they could then interview

Davis? And they depended on Francis' English comprehension to get this to succeed?

Wow.

By the way, "for his strident anti-LGBT rhetoric" doesn't have any evidence. Someone in the media assumed that, and leftish forums have run with it, while ignoring the absence of any evidence for it.

If you need some evidence of how this pope feels about LGBT rights (and I think you do, to be frank), look for bluenorthwest's posts. Francis' anti-LGBT attitude is amply documented there.

[virtualobserver]

23. I didn't imply that they arranged it....I think that somehow found out about it in advance.....

and took advantage of it.

I am aware of his past....in 2010 he proposed supporting civil unions as a compromise....which was rejected by the other bishops.
He has preached against judgement of LGBT people. These are big steps for a pope



This doesn't make him a LGBT activist, but even some Democrats that I know are new to this kind of thinking as well.



This meeting with Kim Davis seems suspicious, and counter to the pope's intentions on this trip.

[jberryhill]

2. Yeah, probably some activist bishop put her in a receiving line

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. E.J. Dionne said he 'understands' it was arranged by the Papal Nuncio, Carlo Maria Vigano

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/the-pope--kim-davis--and-the-secret-meeting-535731267871

But the idea that it was in a receiving line seems to be confined to DU and nowhere else. Everyone else says it was a private meeting.

[rug]

21. "E.J. Dionne offers his theory on who arranged that meeting."

[geek tragedy]

3. we scheduled a private audience with America's most prominent homophobic bigot, oopsie nt

[trotsky]

8. Her name and picture have been plastered all over the US media for weeks.

Yeah, "oops."

[rug]

10. And?

[bullwinkle428]

22. America's most prominent homophobic bigot meets *world's most loveable

homophobic bigot* - what could go wrong?

*~* - used this description in one of last week's Pope's threads, so I claim dibs!

[ryan_cats]

4. Didn't the Pope ask for the meeting? n/t.

[pnwmom]

15. There is no evidence for that, unless you want to believe Kim Davis is reliable.

And the attorney with the hoax photo of thousands of people in South America supposedly praying for her.

[eissa]

5. I think his American bishops/cardinals

are far more to the right than most. They seem to align very well with the fundie evangelical crowd. It's easy to fathom that one of them set this up and squeezed her into his schedule. I'm not happy with the visit, obviously, but think we might be reading more into it than what it actually was.

Look, he's the Pope. I expect him to be anti-abortion, and against same-sex marriage. That's kind of what Popes do. I think the reason he resonated with so many outside the Catholic faith is that, unlike most religious figures, he hasn't made those two things the central part of his message. He actually talks about social justice, poverty, humbleness, tolerance, etc. Is he where we want him to be on the political spectrum? No, not even close. But far better than not only his predecessors, but most so-called religious leaders.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. I say read it in the context of reality.

Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

At Marriage Meeting With US Anti-Gay Leaders, Pope Decries 'Spiritual Devastation' Of New Morality
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/at_traditional_marriage_conference_pope_francis_speaks_to_u_s_anti_hay_groups


This pretense that Francis is not involved with fundamentalist right wing religious groups is just total and complete bullshit. Anyone who follows the real events around these issues expected Francis to meet with Davis via their mutual allies at Family Research Council. Read the links.

[haikugal]

9. Thank you...they have been joining forces for a long time..

[Bluenorthwest]

7. Here's what Tony Perkins of Family Research Council said about his time at the Vatican organizing

against marriage equality:
“The atmosphere was almost euphoric as the attendees from six of the world’s seven continents broke from the historic gathering to return to their respective nations renewed in their stand for marriage. The courts may declare otherwise, and Hollywood may depict its demise, but the union of a man and a woman as the natural and enduring definition of marriage will endure until the end.”

He was there because he was invited by the Vatican. Francis was also there. On Friday Kim Davis got an award from Perkins and then met Francis.
It's not rocket science folks.

[rug]

11. You're dealing in suspicion of motives, not with any fact about this meeting.

[atreides1]

14. True

But as long as the Vatican keeps saying "no comment", that's going to continue to happen!

[rug]

17. Oh, I'm sure it would continue regardless.

[jehop61]

12. Bishop Kurtz

Of Kentucky is head of US Bishops Conference. He has embarrassed and manipulated his Pontiff.

[pnwmom]

16. That's what I think happened.