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pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 05:51 PM Oct 2015

A red flag most of us missed in the Kim Davis fantasy.

The story was that the Davis's were alone in the room with the Pope, and that she and the Pope spoke directly. According to her attorney's statement, no other people were in the room except for photographers and security.

But everyone knows the Pope barely speaks English (enough to laboriously read his prepared addresses out loud), and that everywhere he went in all his meetings with English-speaking people, he brought a translator. (Even when meeting with U.S. schoolchildren.)

Why would he ever meet with a controversial person like Kim Davis without a translator?

The fraud in this story should have been obvious to everyone -- especially people in the news media -- from the outset.

66 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A red flag most of us missed in the Kim Davis fantasy. (Original Post) pnwmom Oct 2015 OP
Among the many sins according to her religion that she has and is still committing. hobbit709 Oct 2015 #1
Don't matter... ThoughtCriminal Oct 2015 #11
Most fundie christians... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2015 #39
A red flag only if you want to see one. Excellent point. leveymg Oct 2015 #2
Maybe he spoke in tongues? No, that's a different wacko philosophy. randome Oct 2015 #3
Kimmeh: He said "Ágimus tibi gratias, omnípotens Deus, pro universis beneficiis tuis," Liberal Veteran Oct 2015 #7
Kim "Maggot" Davis NBachers Oct 2015 #4
Kick. hifiguy Oct 2015 #5
Yes, you are right dem in texas Oct 2015 #8
And I wouldn't think the pope MissDeeds Oct 2015 #14
Oh....SNAP! SoapBox Oct 2015 #19
I think she is viewed as an adulterer because she's deemed to still be married to the first spouse. spooky3 Oct 2015 #44
Only marriages within the Catholic church count. Ms. Toad Oct 2015 #62
thanks spooky3 Oct 2015 #63
Squirrel madamesilverspurs Oct 2015 #6
This one that turned up on DU a lot: hifiguy Oct 2015 #10
As bogus and manufactured a lie as the PP smear and EGazhi/BGazhi...by the same folks. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #9
Which statement? In the one on Friday, they talked about Vatican 'personnel' muriel_volestrangler Oct 2015 #12
/thread... SidDithers Oct 2015 #23
If only it were the end ... muriel_volestrangler Oct 2015 #37
I was referring to the original statement made by the lawyer on camera. pnwmom Oct 2015 #48
I was talking about the lawyers' on-camera statement, when he said there was no one else pnwmom Oct 2015 #47
He says 'Vatican staff' in that muriel_volestrangler Oct 2015 #52
None so blind....Nov. 20, 2014 Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #13
I have a feeling that Vatican security would never have let the pope be alone with LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #15
Clearly. Still In Wisconsin Oct 2015 #21
It also sets up a scenario that only the Davis's know what happened ToxMarz Oct 2015 #32
Wonder how that will fit in with all the F the Pope posts. Waldorf Oct 2015 #16
I always say fuck the pope... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2015 #41
The whole thing smelled to high heaven to me PatSeg Oct 2015 #17
As Popes go, historically speaking, wait and see. SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2015 #28
I'm not Catholic PatSeg Oct 2015 #33
I was a catholic and I work for the catholics. SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2015 #50
The history of the Catholic Church PatSeg Oct 2015 #59
A PBS series on the history of Popes would be quite educatiinal. SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2015 #66
And the Pope's a Jesuit, perhaps the most liberal order within the Church. Beartracks Oct 2015 #61
I though the very same thing, pnwmom. Pope's English skills seem very difficult. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #18
BS! Helen Borg Oct 2015 #20
Your efforts at defending Pope Photo-Op are admirable... SidDithers Oct 2015 #22
And your efforts to demean religious DUers aren't. Octafish Oct 2015 #53
First they came for Pope Photo-Op... SidDithers Oct 2015 #56
Tell us, SidDithers of DU: Is Naomi Klein still a bit of a drinker? Octafish Oct 2015 #57
Promoting Pope Photo-Op fits right in with your history... SidDithers Oct 2015 #58
I knew she was lying rbrnmw Oct 2015 #24
She's on her fourth marriage now, but in her view the slate was wiped clean pnwmom Oct 2015 #46
Of course she thinks that rbrnmw Oct 2015 #55
That's a good point, but... Orrex Oct 2015 #25
As are any security people. Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #31
The lawyer specifically said that no one else was in the room besides photographers and pnwmom Oct 2015 #45
Is this the same lawyer... Orrex Oct 2015 #49
I don't know if it's that lawyer. But he IS the lawyer who put out a fraudulent photo pnwmom Oct 2015 #51
+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #54
K & R malaise Oct 2015 #26
Excellent Observation KauaiK Oct 2015 #27
Lazy, lazy media lsewpershad Oct 2015 #29
why would the Pope concern onethatcares Oct 2015 #30
K & R!!! Thespian2 Oct 2015 #34
Maybe she met with him at that big rally for her in Peru and she just got confused. jalan48 Oct 2015 #35
Fiorina/Davis 2016 rbrnmw Oct 2015 #36
Perhaps they spoke in tongues... pig Latin would be most appropriate. Raster Oct 2015 #38
Well, if photographers were there... Tab Oct 2015 #40
Exactly. BarackTheVote Oct 2015 #60
What news media? MSM is not journalism. LuckyLib Oct 2015 #42
I am always amazed that some here think the M$M is in the business of news. Rex Oct 2015 #65
THAT MEETING tomm2thumbs Oct 2015 #43
Who you gonna believe? The head of a 2000 year old religion or some American bred fundie? Rex Oct 2015 #64

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
1. Among the many sins according to her religion that she has and is still committing.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 05:59 PM
Oct 2015

Bearing false witness is right up there.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
39. Most fundie christians...
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 08:38 PM
Oct 2015

think the Pope is the devil incarnate, so they probably can rationalize the lie in their head. If you can believe a man fed 5000 people with the equivalent of 2 Filet O'Fishes, you can believe anything.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
3. Maybe he spoke in tongues? No, that's a different wacko philosophy.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 06:02 PM
Oct 2015

Good point, pnwmom.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

Liberal Veteran

(22,239 posts)
7. Kimmeh: He said "Ágimus tibi gratias, omnípotens Deus, pro universis beneficiis tuis,"
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 06:18 PM
Oct 2015

qui vivis et regnas in
sæcula sæculórum. Amen."

Which I understand to mean, "Kim Davis, you are a true god warrior and my church and the blessings of the Lord are upon you and your good deeds in you fight against Satan"


Actual translation:
Bless us, O Lord, and these
thy gifts which we are about
to receive from thy bounty,
through Christ our Lord. Amen.

dem in texas

(2,673 posts)
8. Yes, you are right
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 06:19 PM
Oct 2015

It didn't sound right from day one. Then on top of that. we have her lawyer posting the images of the people in Peru who were supposed to be having a prayer rally for her (the pictures were made in 2014).

Kim and her lawyer are good Christian LIARS!

spooky3

(34,403 posts)
44. I think she is viewed as an adulterer because she's deemed to still be married to the first spouse.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 09:02 PM
Oct 2015

Ms. Toad

(33,992 posts)
62. Only marriages within the Catholic church count.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 07:10 PM
Oct 2015

You can be married and divorced a dozen times, and still enter into a 13th marriage which is valid in the eyes of the Catholic church - as long as none of prior your marriages were valid in the eyes of the Catholic church (and - as a general rule - no marriage which takes place outside of the Catholic church is valid in its eyes unless you deliberately seek & obtain the blessing of the church for the non-Catholic marriages).

madamesilverspurs

(15,798 posts)
6. Squirrel
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 06:15 PM
Oct 2015

Remember a while back when that squirrel popped up in someone's photo? It became a meme, somebody fixed him so that he could be popped into anyone's photo. I'm thinking the same could be done with Ms. Davis, she could be claiming private conversations with anyone anywhere. Hope somebody does it, it could get . . . interesting!

muriel_volestrangler

(101,265 posts)
12. Which statement? In the one on Friday, they talked about Vatican 'personnel'
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 06:42 PM
Oct 2015
Kim and Joe Davis waited for the private meeting with the Pope. There were no other people in the room. This was a private meeting between Pope Francis and Kim and Joe Davis. This was not a meeting with other people in which Kim and Joe Davis were a part, but rather a private meeting with no other people in the room except Vatican security and personnel.

https://www.lc.org/newsroom/details/popes-words-and-meetings-support-conscientious-objection

And an interpreter would be called 'personnel'. Are you referring to an earlier statement that talked about photographers?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,265 posts)
37. If only it were the end ...
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 08:22 PM
Oct 2015

Since I posted that, there have been loads more recs, more replies saying what a great point that is, and no-one thinking that way has attempted to show the bit about 'photographers' was true. It's too desirable for people to bother to check it. The truthiness of it has overwhelmed them.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,265 posts)
52. He says 'Vatican staff' in that
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 03:49 AM
Oct 2015

"The meeting was a private meeting between Kim Davis, and her husband Joe Davis, and Pope Francis, no other people were in the room other than Vatican staff, the photographers, the security, it was a private meeting just between the pope and the Davises."

Who's getting squishy?

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
13. None so blind....Nov. 20, 2014
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 06:53 PM
Oct 2015

Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage
"...This week the Vatican hosted a three-day, international, interreligious colloquium called Humanum, “The Complementarity of Man and Woman: An International Colloquium.” Its goal was to “propose anew the beauty of the relationship between the man and the woman.” Speakers came from nearly two dozen countries and a variety of religious traditions, including Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and Taoists.

The presence of American evangelicals and the LDS Church was particularly notable. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, and Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, each gave speeches, and representatives from the Heritage Foundation and the Family Research Council in Washington attended. President Henry Eyring of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ first presidency spoke and Elder Tom Perry of the LDS’s Quorum of the Twelve also joined. In the United States, this trio of faiths has worked together to stand against the government’s Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate, but it was the first time they were coming together at the Vatican to talk about marriage.

The colloquium rallied around the theological concept of complementarianism, the belief that men and women have different roles in a marriage and religious leadership—husbands are spiritual leaders, and wives submit to them in love. To be “complementary” is to complete or fill the lack in the other thing. It opposes egalitarianism, the theological belief that men and women are equal in all respects in marriage and in religious leadership positions. Traditional Catholic, evangelical, and LDS belief interprets the Bible to support a complementarian relational structure. That may explain why mainline Protestant traditions that interpret the Bible to an egalitarian end—Presbyterian, Episcopal, United Church of Christ—were not featured at the event."
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/


So very obviously you don't have to talk about Davis to have the conversation that needs to be had, all you need is good will and basic honesty about well reported and established facts. Forget Kim, let's talk about NOM and the Heritage Foundation, or Tony Perkins.

Or we could talk about AIDS, condoms and Africa.
Over 100,000 people a month die of AIDS in Africa. Each month. Francis comes to our Congress to archly preach about threats to the family. The number of orphans left behind by those who die of AIDS in Africa is high in the millions. Yet this is not the threat to families which weighs on the minds of Francis, who tells Africans not to use condoms.
I think to claim to care about families while imposing practices that create untold numbers of orphans is fairly ghoulish.

LiberalArkie

(15,703 posts)
15. I have a feeling that Vatican security would never have let the pope be alone with
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 06:58 PM
Oct 2015

2 Americans. Maybe with some ISIS members, but 2 Americans, they would never risk it. Not in a confined area like a meeting room. Security was just a few feet away when he was speaking to congress. Totally insane. No photographers? When did you see the Pope anywhere that there wasn't Vatican photographers?

ToxMarz

(2,162 posts)
32. It also sets up a scenario that only the Davis's know what happened
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:48 PM
Oct 2015

And know one can dispute. Certainly the Pope isn't going to take the presses phone calls.

Waldorf

(654 posts)
16. Wonder how that will fit in with all the F the Pope posts.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:02 PM
Oct 2015

While visiting the US there were lots of Pope praising going on. Kim Davis story comes out and its F the Pope, etc. If the story does indeed turn out to be bogus is the Pope a good guy again?

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
41. I always say fuck the pope...
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 08:42 PM
Oct 2015

Whether Kim's story is true or false is of no matter. As long as the RCC continues with its misogynistic and homophobic actions, I will continue to say "fuck the pope"

PatSeg

(47,259 posts)
17. The whole thing smelled to high heaven to me
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:02 PM
Oct 2015

Then I came to DU and saw some pretty nasty threads about the Pope from people who should have known better. There is absolutely no reason to trust a word Kim Davis says.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,082 posts)
28. As Popes go, historically speaking, wait and see.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:31 PM
Oct 2015

He is only one piece on the Chess board. I am sure the politics going on around him are fraught with tension and danger.
.
I'll send him good thoughts and hope for change

PatSeg

(47,259 posts)
33. I'm not Catholic
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:49 PM
Oct 2015

As a rule, I have little regard for the church and its dogma, but this pope stands out from the rest and I will give him the benefit of the doubt for the most part. I think he has the power to bring about great positive change in the world. I see the church as just a convenient tool.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,082 posts)
50. I was a catholic and I work for the catholics.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 11:14 PM
Oct 2015

The history of the Church is more complex than Game of Thrones.

Take The Norbertines and St. Norbert (who only became pious after a scary thunderstorm). My experience with them was in the aftermath of a pedophile scandal. They seemed to want to pass the blame and were thoroughly insensitive to women in behavior and homily re: abortion.

Now I work for the Franciscans. Naive and playful, they're a much easier group to work for.

Think back to when the catholic church was truly competing with European monarchies....


".... Guibert or Wibert of Ravenna (c. 1029 – 8 September 1100) was an Italian prelate, archbishop of Ravenna, who was elected pope in 1080 in opposition to Pope Gregory VII. Gregory was the leader of the movement in the church which opposed the traditional claim of European monarchs to control ecclesiastical appointments, and this was opposed by supporters of monarchical rights led by the Holy Roman Emperor. This led to the conflict known as the Investiture Controversy. Gregory was felt by many to have gone too far when he excommunicated the Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV and supported a rival claimant as emperor, and in 1080 the pro-imperial Synod of Brixen pronounced that Gregory was deposed and replaced as pope by Guibert....."

They actually had an "Antipope".

PatSeg

(47,259 posts)
59. The history of the Catholic Church
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 12:51 PM
Oct 2015

is fascinating. I think a person could spend a lifetime studying it. I believe in the near future, there will be no place for organized religion in our lives.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,082 posts)
66. A PBS series on the history of Popes would be quite educatiinal.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 08:18 PM
Oct 2015

My problem with ending religion is what would replace it. Vacuums are scary.

Beartracks

(12,797 posts)
61. And the Pope's a Jesuit, perhaps the most liberal order within the Church.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 05:28 PM
Oct 2015

They've made their mark throughout history as educators and thinkers.

I've never heard of Norbertines, although I am familiar with Franciscans and Benedictines.

=======================

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
53. And your efforts to demean religious DUers aren't.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 09:15 AM
Oct 2015

Respecting people based on their religion preference or lack thereof is a democratic principle held in the USA since 1776.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
57. Tell us, SidDithers of DU: Is Naomi Klein still a bit of a drinker?
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 11:13 AM
Oct 2015

You seem to specialize in such things.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022146890#post82

Self-delete if you want, I'll post the screen capture.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
58. Promoting Pope Photo-Op fits right in with your history...
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 11:41 AM
Oct 2015

of promoting the writings of other bigots, racists and homophobes, such as Paul Craig Roberts, Wayne Madsen, Christopher Bollyn, Israel Shamir and others. Bigoted Pope Franky fits nicely in with that group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4504297
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6057873
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023454166

You seem to specialize in such things.

Sid

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
24. I knew she was lying
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:21 PM
Oct 2015

Lying on the Pope isn't cool Kim. Both of her parents are Catholic, so I think she at one was too. I think she either didn't receive the sacrament of marriage (IRONIC) or she did
and didn't get her marriage annulled. Either way she had some kind of falling out with the RCC.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
46. She's on her fourth marriage now, but in her view the slate was wiped clean
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 09:04 PM
Oct 2015

a few years ago when she finally became a Christian.

Because in her Church's view, a Catholic isn't a Christian.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
55. Of course she thinks that
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 09:35 AM
Oct 2015

Why in the world would she even care to meet the Pope? Doesn't that faction think he is the antichrist?

Orrex

(63,172 posts)
25. That's a good point, but...
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:25 PM
Oct 2015

I believe that, in procedural terms, taking a translator to a private meeting is still considered a private meeting. The translator is ceremonially transparent, serving as an extension of the office rather than as a third party in the discussion.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
45. The lawyer specifically said that no one else was in the room besides photographers and
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 09:02 PM
Oct 2015

security people.

A translator might be "ceremonially transparent" but is just as much of a human presence as a photographer or a guard.

And without a translator, there really couldn't have been any serious discussion between these two, since they didn't share a common language.

http://www.nytimes.com/video/world/100000003953789/both-sides-of-popes-meeting-with-davis.html?playlistId=1194811622182&region=video-grid&version=video-grid-thumbnail&contentCollection=Times+Video&contentPlacement=3&module=recent-videos&action=click&pgType=Multimedia&eventName=video-grid-click

Orrex

(63,172 posts)
49. Is this the same lawyer...
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 10:33 PM
Oct 2015

who also said that she had a right to refuse to do her job without suffering any consequences?

If so, then I'm not sure that his statements on this matter can be taken at face value.


Beyond that, why would Frankie meet with her at all? To what possible end? Do you really suppose that The Holy Father, leader of the Catholic Church worldwide and head of a sovereign state, really has to take meetings with anyone he doesn't wish to meet?

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
51. I don't know if it's that lawyer. But he IS the lawyer who put out a fraudulent photo
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 11:14 PM
Oct 2015

of thousands of people praying in South America, and claimed they were praying for Kim Davis. (They weren't. It was an old photo.) So he has already been proven to be a liar.

I believe the Vatican spokesman who said that she didn't actually have a private audience with the Pope; that she was part of a group of people who were brought in for quick greetings, nothing more.

Most of the accounts that seem reliable say that the Papal Nuncio, who is very conservative , invited her. Which makes sense because it was in his residence that she claims to have had her meeting.

The Pope doesn't micromanage every meeting in every country that he visits. The Bishops are responsible for selecting people in their area they think he should meet -- for example, possible donators.

Whoever put Kim Davis on a list screwed up, and interfered with everything the Pope was trying to do with his visit. He was deliberately, consistently, trying to stay out of US culture wars. So why would he choose to give her a boost at the end -- that she could use to promote herself?

If he HAD wanted to advocate for her, why didn't he do it during the numerous public occasions that were available to him? It just makes no sense.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
54. +1000
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 09:20 AM
Oct 2015
God, I just wish that horrid woman would go away forever. She becomes more and more disgusting with each news flash.

onethatcares

(16,161 posts)
30. why would the Pope concern
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:39 PM
Oct 2015

himself with someone so trivial? He should have met with the Duck Dynasty folks to really get things going in that direction, hell, Phil Robertson speaks Latin in some weird way so a translator would not have been needed.

Thespian2

(2,741 posts)
34. K & R!!!
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:57 PM
Oct 2015

This person has already passed her sell-by date...

Appears to have found a way to extract money from far right pinheads who support her and her lies...

I seriously doubt that she has any belief in Christianity...Common, ordinary liar...

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
36. Fiorina/Davis 2016
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 08:07 PM
Oct 2015

They are both consummate liars, and the GOTP loves liars unless of course it's a Democrat.

BarackTheVote

(938 posts)
60. Exactly.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:26 PM
Oct 2015

If there were photographers present at this supposed secret meeting, then where are the pictures of Kim with the Pope? The only photos I can find related to the visit are ones of Kim and her husband in a waiting room, and pictures of the Rosaries they were given, which were given to everyone at the meet-and-greet that the Vatican says she was part of (which she was supposedly invited to by the Archbishop of D.C., not the Pontiff). It's not just me--according to Snopes, no photos or audio from the event have been released, and you'd think the Liberty Council and RW media outlets would be parading that sh*t around 24/7 to prove their case by now, if such evidence existed.

It reeks to heaven.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
65. I am always amazed that some here think the M$M is in the business of news.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 08:07 PM
Oct 2015

I guess they are so overwhelmed by the eye-candy-bullshit on TV, that they miss the fact that the M$M gave up real news decades ago. The owners of the M$M ordered more money/ratings by become Reality TV infotainment channels.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
64. Who you gonna believe? The head of a 2000 year old religion or some American bred fundie?
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 08:04 PM
Oct 2015

Tough call imo. I think it is PATHETIC that the M$M makes this into a big story! Sad.

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