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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTough Words From Judge as She Sends Abuse Victim to Jail
On July 30, when the video was taken, the mother of a 1-year-old child appeared before Judge Jerri Collins in a Seminole County courtroom for a contempt of court hearing.
"Your honor, I'm very sorry for not attending the last one," she said through tears. "I've been dealing with depression and just a lot personally since this happened. My anxiety is like, this is everyday for me."
According to court documents, the victim was holding her child inside a Florida residence April 2 when the child's father allegedly choked her and grabbed a kitchen knife. He was arrested. In a statement, the State Attorney's Office said the man accused in the case had a prior domestic violence battery conviction.
https://gma.yahoo.com/tough-words-judge-she-sends-abuse-victim-jail-224935276--abc-news-topstories.html
O M F'n G!!
LAGC
(5,330 posts)It is very common in domestic violence cases for the battered party to get cold feet and/or want to drop charges. Especially if the abuser's family starts harassing the victim and blaming her for the abuser's violence.
It's a vicious cycle, and the only way to stop it is to send a strong message to the abuser that resorting to violence against your spouse is NOT okay under ANY circumstances.
How else are you going to compel the battered victim to appear in court and testify against their abuser if not by threat of contempt of court if they don't show??
sarisataka
(18,197 posts)but I completely disagree with re-victimizing the victim.
LAGC
(5,330 posts)By attempting to impede the course of justice, she is only paving the way for future acts of violence against her.
In many cases, when an abuser gets off and escapes justice, they only escalate the violence, sometimes resulting in serious injury or even death later on.
That is why, even though the victim may have originally pressed charges, it is the STATE that takes up the mantle and claims jurisdiction over the charges, the victim has no say any more. Only the STATE can drop charges at that point.
This is for the protection of the victim AND the protection of society from a violent criminal who needs to be locked up and taught a lesson for his despicable behavior.
This is also why mandatory restraining orders (no-contact orders) are issued as well.
Docreed2003
(16,817 posts)The data suggested that a victim of domestic violence would return to their abuser approx 15 times before they left for good or were killed. This woman deserves all the time in the world to deal with her situation and deserves empathy from the judicial system, not some cut and dry stance. This is dispicable and it makes the victim into a victim all over again
Orrex
(63,083 posts)I am absolutely sympathetic to the victim in these cases. Domestic abuse is abuse, and an abuser shoud be tried and, found guilty, should serve very long jail time.
But he has to stand trial. If a subpoenaed key witness doesn't show up to testify, then the entire process is undermined, and the abuser could be turned loose to abuse again.
Defying a subpoena, absent a compelling reason to do so, necessarily has serious consequences.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I dont think she should be put in jail, just move the court case along without her. If there is insufficient evidence without her testimony that means dropping the charges.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)You might want to educate yourself about relationship violence.
(BTW, restraining orders are singularly ineffective, and can result in more deadly violence against survivors.)
avebury
(10,946 posts)consequence of not helping the legal system lock up her abusive husband. But in this case, there is another potential victim, the child. Safety of a young child has to be of prime concern because if the mother is not willing to do everything possible to safeguard her child somebody else has to step in to make sure the child is safe. She was holding the child at the time of the abuse.
There is a real possibility that the husband may use threats to the child to bring his wife into line and there are cases where a parent has killed his/her children to make sure that if he/she can't have the children the other parent won't have them either.
If the mother intentionally walks back to an abusive situation then the child should be removed from the home. As an adult she has the legal right to be stupid, however, she does not have a moral or legal right to be stupid if she is risking the safety of her child at the same time. At that point she is acting with gross negligence as a parent. A rational person would realize that the child could be in danger and she would be acting in a manner that could be endangering the welfare of her child.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)No better place for the child to be than with grandparents.
avebury
(10,946 posts)If the Dad/Husband is on the loose. If he gets .as enough he might go after the in-laws. Mass family shootings are not that uncommon. I am glad they took the child but perhaps they should have required that the daughter help authorities lock up her husband. I wonder if any of them filed for a VPO (not that it will do much good against an a determined angry violent person).
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)niyad
(112,424 posts)dementia? no better place?? your worldview is, alas, all too familiar to us here.
avebury
(10,946 posts)with the law could be very capable of getting a gun (if he doesn't already own one) and committing mass murder against the in-laws, wife and child. Incidents like that are not that uncommon.
niyad
(112,424 posts)RichGirl
(4,119 posts)So she can stop being a victim. The only way to stop abuse is for victims to make sure that abuser pays for his crime. She let him go free to abuse someone else.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)And not to punish victims who are unable to testify for different reasons. Not all of us are able to go into a courtroom and face our abuser in the flesh. Now you want to throw victims in jail for that? She did not let him go free to abuse someone else, it is not her responsibility, it is wholly the abuser's responsibility, no one else's. Shame on you, you are part of the problem, not the solution.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)Democat
(11,617 posts)Because she was abused doesn't mean she no longer has any responsibility to protect her child from an abuser.
What is more important, her feelings or stopping an abuser from abusing again?
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Judging by the numbers of mothers in jail for being abused alongside their children with far harsher sentences than the men who abused both women and children, I mean. It is clear that being abused is a worse crime than abusing. Congratulations, attitudes like yours are what sustains that view. I hope you are proud of yourself.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Yes, generally speaking, a mother has the responsibility of protecting her child. But in this instance, you're putting the main burden of blame on the wrong person.
And it's not just about "feelings." She may have believed, with some justification, that testifying would put her and/or her child in even greater danger.
niyad
(112,424 posts)RichGirl
(4,119 posts)I've known women who crave sympathy...even become addicted to it.* Nothing better than having people who care about you. But it can only be a stepping stone to standing on your own two feet and caring about yourself enough to stay away from losers.
*different but similar...munchhausen (sp) disease where people hurt themselves or fake illness just for the sympathy and care they get in the hospital.
niyad
(112,424 posts)and utterly clueless.
it appears that you have absolutely no concept of what domestic abuse survivors experience. and I am incredibly sorry for anybody in your world who is one.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)Someone who's never been abused and apparently can't feel empathy for those who have.
Not jailing abuse victims is "coddling" them? They're just sympathy whores? (Yeah, I know you're thinking it. It's been said too many times to my face to think otherwise.)
Fuck you. I have no patience for this shit. I'll take a hide for this. Fuck you.
You are one of the reasons abuse victims don't speak up. You are one of the reasons. You are the goddamn problem.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)You are crassly ignorant about relationship violence. It would behoove you to do some research before you weigh in on a subject about which you know NOTHING.
Buh-BYE!
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Particularly when they threaten you with further harm (or death) and have the means to carry it out.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)Why don't they drag her sorry, worthless ass down to the airport, stick her in a Boing 747-800 and tell her to fly to Australia?
"I..I can't..I don't have the skills"
"Well, you better GET the skills mighty fast 'cause you and your child are depending on you having the skills"
FUCK..OK, I'm being silly but I don't care,..
niyad
(112,424 posts)kcr
(15,300 posts)And if our justice system has no other way that has to change.
yardwork
(61,408 posts)Can we protect the targets of abuse from murder when they try to leave? Can you?
How does jailing a victim further the likelihood that other victims will report abuse?
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)Anyone who has been abused needs to stand firm and make sure the abuser is in jail. That is the only way. No one can do it for them.
Changing the laws to make it easier to jail an abuser could skew it the other way so that a vengeful woman could falsely accuse someone just to put him in jail.
Women aren't always right/good and men aren't always wrong/bad.
yardwork
(61,408 posts)It's easy to say what people "should" do.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)Laws are shoulds. As in "if you don't want to go to jail, here's what you SHOULD do.
I have never been abused. But the issue needs both sides. A former abuse victim can express their view based on the experience and emotion. Those who haven't been abused can see another side of it that isn't clouded with emotion and memories, that may be more rational and practical. Both are needed to make good laws.
Orrex
(63,083 posts)However, what this particular victim was legally required to do was testify in court.
I'm not being glib about this. I would be happy to see convicted abusers jailed for life. But there is a legal process that must be followed, and it frankly supersedes the abuse suffered by any one victim.
I know that confronting the abuser is horrible. I know that submitting to the defense's cross-examination is a demoralizing and dehumanizing humiliation. Without elaborating, let me say only that I get it.
But if the victim's failure to testify will result in the abuser going free, then how will the victim feel the next time he beats another innocent victim, or worse?
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)I categorically reject that. It isn't a victim's responsibility to make sure an abuser doesn't abuse either her or others. That is the abuser's responsibility. Gosh, attitudes like yours is part of the reason why so few survivors actually report their abuse, because when the abuse makes it impossible for them to go to court and sit in the same room as their abuser, you would throw them in jail. You are part of the problem, and you should be ashamed of it.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)to abusers is to change the laws so that the STATE brings charges against the abuser, and the burden of PROOF is on the prosecuting attorneys, NOT abused spouses.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)sub.theory
(652 posts)Her story is completely believable to anyone with even an hour of experience with domestic violence victims. The judge is an asshole.
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)The judge should be held in contempt.
avebury
(10,946 posts)then the safety of her child (who was in her arms at the time of the attack)?
What is to keep the husband from using the child to force his wife into line?
If she refuses to assist in the prosecution of her abusive husband it is her right to be stupid.
However, she has no right to keep a child in an unsafe environment.
The child should be removed from the house until it has been determined that the child is not at risk.
As much as it is her right to be stupid, throwing a child into the mix does change the dynamics of the situation and the child's safety must supercede the mother's feelings.
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)accomplish?
Democat
(11,617 posts)Maybe the judge is trying to save other women from the same fate?
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)A good judge would see beyond his current case.
Also judges have seen more than the average person. They have probably seen cases where men were falsely accused. They have to follow the the law as written and not let personal feelings get in the way. They at least have to hold to "innocent until proven guilty".
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)RichGirl
(4,119 posts)Coddling someone isn't helping them. Lots of people go through all kinds of shit. It doesn't exempt them from obeying laws.
Laws aren't perfect but we need them. We only see this one case. Judges see this stuff all day, everyday. Maybe this judge has seen too many people violating court orders.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)As such, she is made to feel like a piece of shit all the time.
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)is NOT JAILING her the same thing as coddling her?
WTF?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)in this thread make me want to fucking puke.
If you've never been a victim, y'all just need to STFU because you have NO fucking idea what you're talking about.
Democat
(11,617 posts)That is all.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)you've got no fucking idea what you're talking about. There are factors here about which you know nothing.
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)I can't believe what I'm reading.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)You only need to read the replies in this thread to figure out why. Assholes like these are the reason why. Not jailing an abuse survivor is coddling her, did you know that? It's absolutely nauseating, that is what it is. The same happens to rape victims, and then they are told that anyone the guy rapes after her is her fault if she doesn't report, all the while rape kits by the hundreds of thousands are stuck in warehouses, and we hear stories about cops arresting women who report rape and send kids back to be killed by rapists because they think he's a stand-up guy.
The puke-smiley is about right for this thread, that's for sure.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)This is fucking disgusting. I cannot believe the shit I read on here sometimes.
Fuck everyone here defending the idea of jailing abuse victims.
Fuck them. Fuck that idea.
What a crock of self-righteous, unempathetic, victim-hating assholery.
These people are the problem.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)"The case was poised for trial and a jury was sworn. The victim refused to attend court the day of trial, going so far as to tell the State Attorney's Office that she didn't care if she was arrested as a result of her not complying with the court's subpoena."
Sending her to jail was too much IMO.
Phentex
(16,330 posts)frustrated or not, a jail sentence is completely uncalled for.
This judge is unqualified to hear domestic violence cases. Sure, the jury can be of your peers, but the judge needs to be educated.
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)and/or depression.
Depression in and of itself can be paralyzing. Yes! Paralyzing. Add abuse to that and it's compounded.
I would have to know a hell of a lot more about her before I even begin to judge her.
It's way easy to attack her when you aren't in her position. AND I know the abuser needs to be prosecuted. I know he will probably abuse again. That doesn't make it any easier on her. It probably compounds her guilt and conflict.
So please stop quoting the law at me. The law uses 'Orders of protection' to stop abusers that are about as efficient as tissue paper. Meh!
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Just another example of zero tolerance, zero brains, zero empathy.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)And then doesn't show up for the court case so that he can be sentenced. So he can go and do it to someone else.
I have full sympathy for anyone who is abused. But they have some responsibility. They need to be treated with compassion and care...but not like children.
Personally, if it were me, putting the guy in jail would be very empowering. That's what I would want. These women in these relationships have no power. Taking the abuser to court and following through is very empowering. THAT'S what they need, not a lot of people feeling sorry for them. These women have lived lives where they had no control. They need to feel like they have control.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)We will supervise and control every moment of your life until do exactly as you are told.
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)when you haven't experienced this.
How is JAILING the victim of abuse when she fears testifying going to CONVINCE other victims to report their abuse.
People will see that you can be jailed if you don't comply with the prosecution. They will NOT report.
This is a terrible precedent.
This woman needs counseling, support (both group and family), and a system that will help her address her options here.
She does NOT need to be put in fucking jail.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)to your OP reveal a serious lack of knowledge about relationship violence, a fact that has not changed in the 41 years since the first shelter opened in the US.
I find it distressing that so many are willing to judge this survivor, while evincing an appalling lack of compassion and empathy.
Current laws addressing relationship violence are inadequate, and many are tainted by the patriarchy within which they were written. From the small amount of information I have seen, I'd say the judge needs to be educated about relationship violence.
(I've been an advocate for survivors for more than thirty years and did my graduate thesis on relationship violence. Those vilifying this survivor should bear in mind that half of all women killed by an abusive partner are killed after they leave the relationship.)
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Thank you.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)thank YOU! I've added three people to my IL because of their disgusting, judgmental, IGNORANT comments herein above.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)It's awful and part of the reason that victims keep it secret. They're judged endlessly, broken emotionally and physically, just trying to get through the day without an "incident". They know that change would mean that it gets worse before it gets better. And the thought of it getting worse is paralyzing. They know leaving literally puts them and/or their kids in imminent danger.
Some in this thread have no idea. None.
And it's heartbreaking.
sarisataka
(18,197 posts)and that is not easy to do.
The idea of jailing the victim of a crime is anathema to me. That many are willing to justify it is amazing and disconcerting.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I have been an advocate for survivors for quite a long time. The patriarchy sustains violence against women, and THAT needs to change first and foremost.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Certain issues bring them out in droves, I think this is the first time I've seen this one.
sarisataka
(18,197 posts)just wonder where (if) they draw a line? Rape victims? Child abuse victims?
Testify or jail... the accused have better protections.
edhopper
(33,164 posts)BTW
mercuryblues
(14,489 posts)pled no contest to the charges and got a whopping 16 days in jail for holding her at knifepoint and choking her.
Is there any wonder why she wouldn't want to testify? It is the lax sentencing abusers get. An abused woman knows this. He will get out of jail and be even angrier that "she put him there."
Abuse victims live in (sometimes paralyzing) fear as it is. The possibility of them going to prison prevents them from seeking help to begin with. It does nothing to help a victim regain their footing. It destabilizes her life even more. She has lost everything, her home her possessions. There is nothing like being thrown in jail while you are trying to rebuild your life from scratch.
The judge should have ordered counseling and/or community service.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Most likely as a plea deal, since the State's case fell apart when the victim refused to testify.
niyad
(112,424 posts)served two years. the girl's mother is serving THIRTY YEARS for "failure to protect". our system is a total woman-hating clusterfuck.
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)this is a perspective that posters who are supporting the jailing of the VICTIM are refusing to see.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Since the prosecution no longer had a case, it was probably the best they could hope for.
Democat
(11,617 posts)On one hand, you're angry because he didn't get enough time in jail. On the other hand people here are angry because she was being forced to testify. Those two things may be related.
If you are okay with this guy going free, then it's fine if she doesn't appear. If you want a long prison sentence, then she probably has to appear in court.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)Society thinks these people need to "Straighten up and see life as it is". They CAN'T. They don't have it in them.
Fuck, I'm livid about this. It's so unfair and nasty and (insert pissed off here)
niyad
(112,424 posts)Domestic Violence Survivor Jailed for Failing to Protect her Children from Abuser
(how about jailing the people in the system who failed to protest her and her children from this abuser, who is now FREE?) but, we are told, ad nauseum, ad infinitem, that there is NO war on women) May that judge, and everyone involved, receive everything they deserve.
Domestic Violence Survivor Jailed for Failing to Protect her Children from Abuser
Domestic abuse survivor Tondalo Hall has spent the last decade behind bars in a McLoud, Oklahoma prison for failing to protect her children from a violent partner.
Robert Braxton, Jr. was arrested in 2004 for breaking the ribs and femur of the couples daughter, who was 3 months old at the time. He was sentenced to 10 years in prison, but ultimately served only two.
Hall, on the other hand, is serving 30 years for not interfering when the child abuse occurred, even though she was a victim of her partners violence as well. Hall reports that Braxton had punched and choked her in the past.
Womens rights group UltraViolet has mobilized to raise awareness of Halls case, arguing that the judges ruling is unfair and punishes a survivor of domestic violence. The group spearheaded a campaign pressuring Oklahomas Pardon and Parole Board to reduce Halls sentence. The board denied Halls plea for clemency this week.
UltraViolet co-founder Shaunna Thomas said in a press release:
Survivors of domestic violence are too often criminalized rather than protected. The Oklahoma Pardon and Parole Board had the responsibility to make things right and they failed
This is not justice. Tondalos story is tragic and proves that we have a criminal justice system that would rather imprison domestic abuse survivors than get them the counseling and support they need to heal.
. . . .
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2015/09/25/domestic-violence-survivor-jailed-for-failing-to-protect-her-children-from-abuser/
niyad
(112,424 posts)F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)Ugh. I don't even have words.
niyad
(112,424 posts)is unsettling, to say the least.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)And I can't imagine any other woman coming forward now because of this...I mean, if the guy is still threatening you, essentially a few days in jail seems the leser of two evils...the judge rally did not consider the entiety of the situation.