does anybody know what ole benny boy's morbidity and mortality rates as a surgeon were?

[niyad]

[Faux pas]

1. I can't imagine any

survived! Good question niyad!

[niyad]

2. the man seems awfully fond of bullet-riddled, dead bodies--makes one wonder.

[Ms. Yertle]

18. Ever had a sick kid??

Did you make sure the doc's political views lined up with yours?

Dr. Carson, by all accounts, was a good surgeon. Probably there were a lot of patients who didn't make it, because of the nature of his specialty.

There were probably many, many more who did survive and whose parents are grateful for his skills, regardless of his politics.

[840high]

29. ....x10+

[Squinch]

31. You say "by all accounts." Which accounts are those? I haven't seen any such accounts that

were based on any actual information.

There is nothing wrong with someone asking this question.

[Ms. Yertle]

33. Um, he separated

twins joined at the head. And they both lived. How easy do you think that is.

His surgical skills (and judgment) have nothing whatsoever to do with his qualifications to be president.

And asking that question implies, "Let's take him down for that, too!!!!" Low blow, distraction, and totally irrelevant.

[Squinch]

36. Asking the question implies that a person is curious about the answer. It is relevant for those who

are curious about the answer.

Carson's success in that operation is great, but there is nothing wrong with wanting to know what his record is. In the past I worked with children who were patients of another surgeon who has done a successful twin separation, but this surgeon actually did not have a good overall record and often made bad decisions.

Donald Trump has performed difficult tasks in the course of his work too. Are we not allowed to look at his record because some of his work tasks were very difficult?

If he is running for president, Carson's professional record is relevant, and there is no reason it needs to be considered sacrosanct.

[Ms. Yertle]

38. So, nothing's off the table?

Sanders' arguably misogynistic writings?

Clinton laughing about getting a child molester acquitted?

If everything is fair game, we're all screwed because there is no perfect candidate.

[Squinch]

39. Work experience is not off the table. And since you have referenced these two issues for

Sanders and Clinton, it would seem that those issues have been talked about and referenced and hashed around, and have not been off the table.

Why should Carson get a pass?

Why should Carson's work experience, which is the only practical information we have about his decision-making ability, be off the table?

[Skittles]

43. he gets a pass by people who love his sorry ass

oh yes

[Squinch]

44. For some, I think it's the "don't question the doctor" mentality. Which always

makes me nuts because we've all met doctors who were awful, and we've all heard about lots of incidents of doctor assholery.

But yeah. Some just love some Carson ass.

What's amazing is that our own candidates are regularly reamed here, but a Republican candidate is being called off limits. Crazy days at DU.

[Skittles]

45. trolls

yup

[Skittles]

42. LOL

no need for xray glasses to see through YOU

[valerief]

56. At least we know who to put on Ignore. nt

[Punkingal]

79. Nothing has been off the table since they decided to impeach Bill Clinton over sex...

Remember?

[KamaAina]

32. St. Raygun did.

After he was shot, he is said to have quipped to his doctors, "I hope you're all Republicans."

[Ms. Yertle]

34. Do you understand

the meaning of the word "quip?"

[KamaAina]

35. Of course.

I am not seriously suggesting that he meant that. Your post brought that incident to mind, is all.

[Skittles]

41. he sounds like a fucking idiot

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. I know we're supposed to hate Carson; but, as you say ...

his politics are unrelated to his medical abilities ... and his medical abilities are unrelated to his politics.

[cwydro]

65. Thank you for a sensible response. eom

[1StrongBlackMan]

66. But that said ...

My current occupation has me working with Medical doctors, working outside their professional skill set, i.e., doctors working in administrative capacities ... and it is the source of much frustration. I am finding medical doctors, particularly surgeons, are virtually incapable of seeing their own personal skill deficits ... they are utterly convinced of their god-status; which, probably, accounts for they surgical greatness; but, makes them horrible administrators.

[cwydro]

67. I completely agree with you there.

I've known doctors socially, and also as a patient because I'm rather accident-prone lol.

Too many have the god-complex. I can usually tell in 5 minutes if they are that type or not. Especially if I'm the patient.

I'm obviously not a fan of Carson as a presidential candidate, but I didn't like the OP impugning his surgical skills.

I didn't like the "boy" reference either, although I realize it may have not been meant in that way.

[Punkingal]

74. I think how he treated people is relevant....

How did he treat those who worked for him? Was he compassionate and caring to patients, or just a skilled surgeon? Those things are relevant to me in someone who wants to run my country. From his statements, it sounds like he is short on empathy and compassion, which in my mind a leader needs.

[Ms. Yertle]

75. Which has exactly

jack shit to do with his m & m.

[Punkingal]

78. I don't give a shit about his M & M either...

I just wonder what kind of person he is, and so far he seems like a heartless snobby prick. And I also wonder why you are defending him so strenuously here.

[Ms. Yertle]

84. The subject of the OP

was his m & m, not his character.

And I'm not defending him as a candidate or as a human being, but as a surgeon.

I was in the neighborhood of Children's Hospital in Detroit last summer and saw a sign for the Benjamin Carson School of Science and Medicine, and realized what a hero he must be locally. Underprivileged young person who rose to the pinnacle of a respected profession.

To see him referred to as "boy" and his record as a surgeon questioned is sickening. It must be like a slap in the face to anyone who has aspired to follow his example.

[REP]

82. Do I make sure my surgeon isn't a fucking moron? You're damn straight I do.

[840high]

58. Then you don't know anything

about him.

[zappaman]

3. That's an excellent question.

I'd love to know!

[AngryAmish]

4. In a long enough time frame, mortality rate is 100%

[sharp_stick]

5. Well he dealt

with some of the most challenging pediatric neurology cases in the country so I'm sure it was higher than most.

Make no mistake, the guy was a fantastic neurosurgeon. That makes his moronic foray into politics all the more unsettling and just goes to show that just because your're smart it doesn't mean you're intelligent.

[COLGATE4]

9. His problem isn't a lack of intelligence. It's because he has

dedicated his intellectual gifts to one very circumscribed area, in which he excels. He seems to be suffering from a phenomenon very common to many surgeons - the belief that because he's good and smart at one thing he's smart about all other things (a.k.a. arrogance).

[sharp_stick]

13. Absolutely Right n/t

[WillowTree]

6. He didn't become Chief of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins by being a screw-up.

Just sayin'.

[GeorgeGist]

7. Well since he was the only Pediatric Neurosurgeon there at the time ...

it's not really as big a deal as he'd have you believe.

[WillowTree]

10. Yeah, 'cause Johns Hopkins is the medical equivalent of a one-horse town.

It isn't as if they're not in a position to recruit from a selection of the very best in the nation or anything.

I know, it doesn't fit your dialog. I'll leave you to your fun now.

[Squinch]

40. Carly Fiorina was the CEO of Hewlett Packard. They have a big pool to recruit from too, and

I bet none of us have any trouble thinking she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. And none of us seems to feel we need to turn our eyes away from her professional experience because it is somehow impolite to question it.

Why is it different for Carson?

[Chan790]

8. No, but I am familiar with his work from when I lived in Baltimore.

Both tend to be high for neurosurgeons generally (we know less about brains than most parts of the body and surgery in that area is more delicate work than most surgery)...and he specialized in very high-risk procedures such as radical hemispherectomy (removal of an entire brain lobe...often used to treat certain severe seizure disorders) and separating twins conjoined at the head. It's not really much of a matter of debate that he is an exceptional surgeon though.

He's just "blessed" with those other traits common of surgeons: hubris, hyper-ego and feeling that his finely-tuned area of expertise makes him smarter than in other subject areas than experts in those fields. Doctors in general don't make great politicians; I would expect surgeons to be worse even.

[Ms. Yertle]

11. What an ugly thing to speculate about.

By all accounts he was a very good pediatric neurosurgeon. I'm sure there are hundreds of parents who don't give a rat's ass about his politics, and are just grateful he was available to save their children's lives.

In addition, he has a very compelling lifestory, and is a great role model for anyone who thinks they have no chance of escaping the life they were born into.

Can't we disagree with someone politically without looking to trash their entire life?????? Sheeesh.

[niyad]

12. he's doing a good job of that all by himself.

[snooper2]

15. Maybe, but when he talks he just doesn't seem very bright so it is pretty curious

I know a really good engineer in telecom, knows his shit-

But, he actually believes the Earth is 6000 fucking years old. Somebody should do a study

[Matariki]

26. +1

Shameful OP

[Frank Cannon]

68. No kidding. This thread is ridiculous.

He was undoubtedly a highly competent doctor and very distinguished in his field. Somewhere along the way, he discovered fundamental religion and lost his fucking mind. Competent people go nuts all the time. Look at Randy Quaid, for example. And just because you're highly skilled in your field doesn't mean you're cut out for working in public policy. Most people aren't.

[Skittles]

77. the man is a nutcase

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/ben-carson-debt-ceiling-marketplace/

[Deadshot]

14. I don't think that belongs in politics.

He didn't get to be head of pediatric surgery by being a dumbass. I'm sure he was a great surgeon.

He just sucks at everything else.

[niyad]

16. nobody said he was a dumbass as a surgeon--but he sure qualifies as one in every other area.

[Ms. Yertle]

17. But

you're the one who asked about his morbidity and mortality rates. If you don't think he was a dumbass as a surgeon, why ask?

[niyad]

19. because I am curious about it, that's why. is there some reason I shouldn't ask? it is the same

question I would ask about any doctor, any surgeon.

[Ms. Yertle]

20. Okay

I just don't think I would ask, care, or even be curious about any retired doc's m & m rates. Actually, I don't think I would care about any doc's m & m unless I, or someone I care about, was going to be treated by him/her.

[niyad]

21. you have your levels of curiosity, and I have mine.

[Matariki]

24. Asking that question has implicit meaning

denying your intent and passive-aggressively attacking someone who points it out is sneaky and dishonest.

[niyad]

25. fascinating projections there.

[Matariki]

27. Yeah right. Your question is just innocent curiosity.

[niyad]

47. there actually IS such a thing, you know. as I said, projection is so much fun.

[840high]

59. Had you been curious you could have

googled. Attacking this man with a question like you did - STINKS.

[Matariki]

22. I don't think that's an appropriate place to attack him

You ought to focus on his right wing, screwball ideas instead.

[niyad]

23. amazingly enough, I can do both.

[backscatter712]

28. He's had a few operating-room whoopsies. Left a sponge in a patient's brain once...

http://gawker.com/report-ben-carson-once-left-a-sponge-in-a-patients-bra-1735224497

[840high]

30. Unrec for foolish

[JI7]

37. he is actually a very good surgeon and should go back to doing that and get out of politics

there are many people who are good when it comes to things like math science and the specific things they have to do .

but socially they come off as ignorant .

[840high]

46. Why are you referring to him as "boy?".

niyad
0. does anybody know what ole benny boy's morbidity and mortality rates as a surgeon were?

[niyad]

48. I refer to ALL the puke males as "boy", since their behaviour is so damned childish.

[840high]

57. You are calling a black male a "boy". By the

way I don't care if he's a "puke". His accomplishments in surgery are amazing. He has saved many, many lives.

[Yupster]

61. I'm not too thrilled about someone questioning a black man's career accomplishments

without any reason either.

[RandiFan1290]

63. K&R

for the butthurt trolls!

[cwydro]

64. So if someone called President Obama "Baracky-boy" that would be ok?

I think it's a disrespectful phrasing in the OP, and I'm usually on the same page as the OP.

I also think it's disrespectful of you to refer to DUers as "trolls". I don't alert, but maybe someone will.

[pintobean]

69. Google "benny boy"

[struggle4progress]

73. You need to think some more about what it really means to call a black man "boy"

[Jesus Malverde]

49. Years ago he saved my GFs cousin

She had some kind of tumor that went from her spine to her brain. She travelled to Baltimore and he operated on her and she's alive today.

BTW calling an adult black man "BOY" is discusting, regardless of his politics.

[niyad]

50. I call all the puke males boy, because of their childish behaviour.

[Jesus Malverde]

51. Ummm yeah, whatever

[niyad]

52. you do, of course, point out sexism and the names that women are called on this board, yes?

[Scootaloo]

53. Explain to me why you need to be held to a more permissive standard?

[Person 2713]

55. Sick

[MoveIt]

60. post was alerted

I was juror #4

On Fri Oct 9, 2015, 12:14 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

does anybody know what ole benny boy's morbidity and mortality rates as a surgeon were?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027243460

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

When did it become acceptable to call an adult African American male a boy? That is so low for DU that I can't believe that it has not been called out. His politics are awful but he does not deserve to be called a boy.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Oct 9, 2015, 12:31 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I am biracial and this isn't meant as a racial insult. This is like Donnie Boy or Teddie Boy or Bobbie Boy-a "boy's club" reference. If you think the poster is being offensive you need to ask before you alert because this is not clear cut at all.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: OP has been so informed downthread, and has had time to change or delete the OP, but apparently doesn't think it matters. It matters.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Here's an idea instead of hiding, have a discussion!
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I just don't see why the word "boy" is such a big deal, even if the post in question might be in bad taste.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I do not believe, for one minute, that reference was meant the way the alerter implies.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Yupster]

62. Yeah I bet if Jeb Bush called an African American man "boy"

we'd all think he was just harmlessly talking about a "boy's club."

[Nuclear Unicorn]

70. "boy"?

[rbrnmw]

72. Very racist to call him a boy

[mnhtnbb]

76. BS. We called Bushie boy just that all the time. Was that racist, too?

Could it be that demeaning a male--any male--by calling him a boy is fair game?

Isn't that what equal opportunity is all about?


I gotta' tell you, though, the new commercials for Super Girl make me puke. How come
it isn't Superwoman? It wasn't Superboy, was it? It was Superman.

[Nye Bevan]

83. Many called Bush "chimp", too.

And referring to an African American as a "chimp" would be just as inappropriate as referring to him as "boy".

[Squinch]

80. So let's review what we have learned in this thread:

1)We can dig deep into Hillary's and Bernie's past work experiences in the hopes of unearthing any and all errors and missteps.

2)We can be as critical and nasty as we can possibly stoop to being in our comments about Hillary's and Bernie's work experiences. Seriously kids, we can let rip about Hillary and Bernie because, if you are a reader of DU, you have learned that they are truly horrible people.

3)But questions about Ben Carson's work experience must not be asked under any circumstances. If we do ask about his work experience, we are doing it "for no reason." It is offensive to ask questions about Ben Carson's work experience. Asking questions about Ben Carson's work experience is up there with farting loudly during the quiet part of a wedding ceremony on the "socially unacceptable" scale. It's just not done, dear.

Now let us all bow our heads and back out of the room, apologizing as we go, for being curious about Ben Carson's work experience. Because this is Democratic Underground, and we're just not going to tolerate these offensive questions about Ben Carson's work experience.

[LittleBlue]

81. I disagree. We should separate his professional brilliance from his crazy politics

He is, by all accounts, a brilliant surgeon. His career shouldn't be smeared.

We have more than enough ammunition now to deal with him.