British grandfather Karl Andree faces 350 lashes in Saudi Arabia over 'home-brewed alcohol'

[flamingdem]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/karl-andree-saudi-arabia-to-punish-british-grandfather-and-cancer-survivor-with-350-lashes-a6691676.html

* Our charming Saudi allies strike again

The family of a grandfather who has been sentenced to 350 lashes by the authorities in Saudi Arabia has urged the Government to intervene, amid fears the punishment would kill him.

Karl Andree, a 74-year-old cancer survivor, was jailed for 12 months after he was allegedly caught with homemade alcohol, which is illegal in the highly conservative nation.

He was arrested in the port city of Jeddah in August 2014 after police allegedly discovered bottles of hooch, The Sun reported.

Mr Andree has already served a year in prison but his family say Saudi authorities plan to deliver the punishment after he finishes his custodial term.

Mr Andree, who works in the oil industry, has lived in the Middle East for 25 years.

[LuvNewcastle]

1. That's disgusting.

I hope he doesn't have to die for his liquor. It's absolutely wrong what's being done to him, but he did know the rules when he decided to work in that shithole. You'd think a year in jail would be satisfy royal family, though. I guess they have to keep up appearances. After all, if they let drinking, cancer-surviving grandfathers live, women might start going out in public without a tent around them.

[Fumesucker]

2. Only a year for manufacturing illegal dangerous drugs?

Playing the devil's advocate here but you can get way more time than that for manufacturing illegal drugs in America, even ones a good bit less dangerous than alcohol.

[CBGLuthier]

4. Yeah but when your sentence is over you don't get beaten to death.

America is a hellhole but the saudis are fucking barbarians.

[Fumesucker]

7. Oh, no doubt about that

The kind of sentence often handed out for drug manufacturing in the US would have him die in prison though.

Mandatory minimums could put him away for effectively life.

[LuvNewcastle]

6. I meant the death sentence, which it

essentially is, at his age and health. I agree with you about how terrible our drug laws are. Penalties should be much less severe across the board, and there should be a sobering investment in drug treatment for offenders. But Saudi Arabia just makes me want to puke. The way they treat everybody except straight Muslim men is vile. Every time I hear of them chopping off another person's head or beating women, I curse that regime they have. And we have prominent political families who think of them as brothers.

[Fumesucker]

8. Yeah, whipping someone to death is barbaric, absolutely.

A mandatory minimum for drug manufacturing would have him die in prison quite likely, I'm not sure that's as much less barbaric then we would like to think.

How would we make the penalties for alcohol possession and use "much less severe" in the USA?

[LuvNewcastle]

13. I agree that the penalty for drug manufacturing

should be severely reduced. Like maybe shave that down to about a year, with a lot of money for drug addiction counseling in prison. Alcohol possession by minors shouldn't be so strictly enforced, I don't think, unless they're driving. Really, I'm not in favor of many restrictions on alcohol possession. If someone is routinely picked up for vagrancy while drunk or if someone is driving drunk, they should get counseling and maybe hospitalization if necessary. Maybe some jail time for DUI, depending on frequency.

[Fumesucker]

16. You are talking about intoxication, that's a different matter

How do we cut the penalties for an adult who just consumes an alcoholic beverage and does not become intoxicated and drive or otherwise cause a problem?

[LuvNewcastle]

19. Okay, Fumesucker, what do you mean?

Are there penalties for that which I'm not aware of? Are you talking about drinking at work? I'm not angry with you or anything, I just don't get your meaning.

[Fumesucker]

21. Culturally alcohol is accepted but it's actually one of the more dangerous recreational substances

For instance alcohol is mood altering in a negative way for a substantial fraction of the population, it's explicit in the language actually, mean drunk, barroom brawl, don't listen to him it's the liquor talking and so on.

People die from acute alcohol poisoning, it's addictive and bad for the health. Alcohol is a pretty shitty drug and yet it's quite legal for adults as long as they don't cause other problems while using it.

Why should it be different for other drugs?

[LuvNewcastle]

23. I really don't think it should, except

in certain circumstances. The only reason I would treat, say, a meth lab differently from a still is that the meth lab is so toxic. As far as possession and use are concerned, it really shouldn't be an issue unless there is an overdose or something, which would also apply to alcohol. The real issue is sale and distribution, and I'm frankly not sure what is the best way to regulate that for drugs or alcohol.

[Bluenorthwest]

32. So let's do this one: Saudis lash then execute people for being gay. How is that just like the US?

You tell me.

[Ilsa]

26. Whenever I hear of a close encounter with

a large meteor, I can't help but wish it would plow in to SA and blow that regime to Hell, with no chance of anyone from within with their disgusting values surviving.

I know, I'm a horrible person, but they are truly barbaric people.

[Fast Walker 52]

29. yep, it's sickening

I can barely even process just how horrible they are.

[get the red out]

11. Royals

The Royal family probably gets a cut of the drug business, just speculating.

[joshcryer]

12. Drug related offenses there = execution.

Which make up most of the causes for execution in that country: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/08/the-death-penalty-in-saudi-arabia-facts-and-figures/

In the US if you're caught with a still (for hard liquor) you'll get it taken away and a slap on the wrist*: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91768&page=1

Homebrew beer is legal and you can do it easily, even buy kits online.

Hard to be a devils advocate on this one.

*obviously I'm talking about comparable scenarios, I know that that link talks about a big time illegal moonshiner running a big operation getting jail time but the article talks about the few people they catch every year running an illegal still.

[Fumesucker]

15. You are kind of making my point for me and I think you are smart enough to know it

[joshcryer]

17. Well I am not feeling that smart tonight.

Kids got executed for hash there a few years ago. Here we're selling it on the streets and it just brought Colorado more revenue than alcohol.

[Fumesucker]

22. Not everywhere is Colorado

There are still plenty of places getting caught with pot can ruin your life. Not even the sentence so much but that you become essentially unemployable with a drug conviction on your record.

Oh, and pot is still totally illegal on the Federal level, Obama doesn't seem to want to change it and I can't imagine Hillary actually doing anything about it either.

[joshcryer]

25. It's going to likely be in the platform, legal in 4 states.

17 states are planning (or working) to have legalization on the ballot in 2016: http://www.attn.com/stories/2754/marijuana-legalization-state-2016-election-candidate-issues

As far as "not everywhere is Colorado" it's a slap on the wrist in 11 states: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/08/18/24-7-wall-st-marijuana/31834875/

So it'll be an issue whether Clinton likes it or not. My guess is she'll just sit on her hands talk about the "experiment and taking it slow" and just wait and see what happens. Sanders has yet to come out for legalization but I expect him to. What will surprise me if Clinton comes out with anything beyond a "wait and see" attitude.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. Not everywhere is Colorado or Oregon or Washington or Alaska....

For example, Saudi Arabia will execute people for cannabis while Oregon will collect a sales tax and wish you well. Large difference. Can you tell the class what the difference is between paying an extra $5 and losing your life?

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. If he even had alcohol.

If he has lived there for 25 years he would know better than to do that.

[get the red out]

10. So I guess the brutality is justified

OK

[leftyladyfrommo]

18. No. The whole thing may have been a set up.

It happens in that part of the world.

[Fumesucker]

20. It happens in this part of the world too

This happened right down the road from me.. The only unusual thing about this case is that the cops got busted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting

Kathryn Johnston (June 26, 1914 – November 21, 2006)[1] was an elderly Atlanta, Georgia, woman who was shot by undercover police officers in her home on Neal Street in northwest Atlanta on November 21, 2006, where she had lived for 17 years. Three officers had entered her home in what was later described as a 'botched' drug raid.[2][3][4] Officers cut off burglar bars and broke down her door using a no-knock warrant.[5] Police said Johnston fired at them and they fired in response; she fired one shot out the door over the officers' heads and they fired 39 shots, five or six of which hit her.[3][6] None of the officers were injured by her gunfire, but Johnston was killed by the officers. Police injuries were later attributed to "friendly fire" from each other's weapons.[2][3][6]

One of the officers planted marijuana in Johnston's house after the shooting.[7][8] Later investigations found that the paperwork stating that drugs present at Johnston's house, which had been the basis for the raid, had been falsified.[3] The officers later admitted to having lied when they submitted cocaine as evidence claiming that they had bought it at Johnston's house.[7] Three officers were tried for manslaughter and other charges surrounding falsification and were sentenced to ten, six, and five years.[3]

[get the red out]

31. I would definitely believe that

Makes a LOT of sense.

[Fumesucker]

14. My next door neighbor is an alcoholic and a smoker, it's killing him and he knows it

At 42 he's already had a quintuple bypass, we've talked about health aspects of addiction quite a lot over the years, he's a nice guy really.

He still has a $25 a day cigarette and beer habit.

[KG]

5. so glad the u.s. doesn't partner with brutal, despotic fundamentalist regimes.

[get the red out]

9. I hate Saudi Arabia

Disgusting non-civilization that it is. If any country deserves sanctions for human rights abuses, they do!

Evil fucking country.

[Chan790]

24. I keep holding out hope that these populist revolutions in the ME will spread to Saudi Arabia.

Great, strongmen were ousted in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. It seems inevitable that Syria will have regime change, even if it is just a decentralization of power with Assad still in charge. Iran is moderating, the people seem committed to elevating the power of the Iranian Presidency at the expense of the clerical government at the same time they're choosing more Westernized Presidents.

The regime that needs to change is the one we're working like mad to prop up even as it funds and provides material support to terrorist groups like Daesh. We need to stop that support and let the House of Saud swing on the gallows they've constructed themselves. If we may know our enemies by their actions, the Saudi Royal Family have revealed themselves as exactly that. It's past time to for them to go.

[get the red out]

30. I agree

I get so disgusted at our country propping up these monsters.

[NightWatcher]

27. The Saudis are assholes, but if you are going to live there you've got to follow their laws

I love when people are surprised when the assholes act like assholes. The Saudis are evil.

[Fast Walker 52]

28. FUCK just FUCK the Saudis

These people are horrible, demented humans. Jesus.

[yuiyoshida]

34. I am going to say this again, despite the last time it was a hidden post...

Yaban'na mikai hito! Karera wa, kore made wa sapōto o ukeru niataisuru n.

translation for those who freaked out last time: Savage Barbarians! They should never get any support.

(http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014800179#post2)

There, I have had my say, at last.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

35. And the moment SA "royals" hop on planes and leave SA airspace the bottles come out

...and the hijab's, etc., come off.
Our pals.