AP: gun shop must pay cops $6M wounded by gun bought at store

[NightWatcher]

@AP: BREAKING: Jury: Gun shop must pay nearly $6M to Milwaukee cops seriously wounded by gun bought at store.

This might be a very big deal if victims can now sue gun shops where weapons were bought that did them harm.

More details as they become available.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-milwaukee-gun-shop-ruling-20151013-story.html

The ruling came in a negligence lawsuit that the officers filed against the owners and operators of Badger Guns. The suit alleged the shop allowed an illegal sale despite several warning signs that should have prompted a store clerk to stop the transaction and know the gun was being sold to a "straw buyer," or someone who was buying the gun for someone who couldn't legally do so.

Jurors sided with the officers, ruling that the store was negligent in selling the gun.

[randys1]

1. MAtters if it is a product malfunction, but law protects corps who make

products for the sole purpose of killing.

Not just misfire but any product malfunction.

Common sense dictates that ANY time a human is killed with ANY gun, the manufacturer should be sued.

[NightWatcher]

2. Apparently the cops argued the store should've known better than sell to a straw buyer

This will make store check out the buyers better than they have been.

[randys1]

5. That is huge, then.

[Lurks Often]

6. That's not common sense, that's nonsense

[randys1]

7. Says the gun culture person.

[Lurks Often]

8. Says the gun control extremist

Here is the applicable law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-105

Maybe you should read it

[randys1]

9. Yeah, like the Heller decision? LOL

I wouldnt hold the retailer responsible anyway, only the manufacturer.

[Lurks Often]

12. You will never be in a position to make that decision, so keep dreaming

[randys1]

14. Your gun culture scares the holy hell out of me and tens of millions of adults

[Lurks Often]

18. Awful lot of fear about something so unlikely to happen to you

[Duckhunter935]

22. The store was a fault

And going guilty. They sued the right party, not the firearms manufacturer.

[Lurks Often]

3. Only if you can prove negligence

Here is the applicable law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-105; under 7903 "Definitions"

If the lawyers can prove that a gun store knowingly sold the gun to a straw buyer or was in some other way negligent or broke the law in the sale of this firearm, then they can indeed be sued.

And if the lawyers can prove negligence, then gun store should lose it's FFL and be fined for all actual damages suffered by the plaintiff as well as large punitive fines and face criminal charges if applicable.

[NightWatcher]

10. I've known of shops that would sell it to a clerk who would sell it to a customer

for cash if they knew the person would have problems legally purchasing it.

If it keeps a few guns out of the wrong hands it's a win.

[Lurks Often]

15. I hope you called ATF or the state police, because that is a straw purchase

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. Anyone who knows about this practice and DOESN'T notify the authorities should be charged.

Charged and incarcerated.

Every gun dealer who participates in this kind of illegal activity should be put out of business, have their assets seized, and put away for a long time.

[Lurks Often]

27. Agreed, except possibly incarceration

I'm a bit mixed on incarceration, I'd much rather see prison space occupied by violent offenders and gun dealer's slapped with enormous fines in addition to the criminal charges.

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. How about some kind of strenuous community service penalty then.

I support punishment for any and all persons involved with and/or possessing firearms illegally or illegally possessing firearms.

I'd also support charging those who sell weapons illegally with whatever crime the person possessing that weapon commits.

[Lurks Often]

30. Definitely agree with the first

As to the second, not so much, unless it can be proven that the person who provided the firearm KNEW what the criminal is going to do with it. That's a legal slippery slope I don't think we want the country to go down. As much as I want to see them punished, the potential legal precedents could carry over to other areas we don't want to see those legal precedents applied to.

[Duckhunter935]

24. Did you report the straw sale to the ATF

Or any authorities?

[NightWatcher]

26. (No, I didn't) it was in the 90's in South Georgia

Cops hung out at the place. At the time it just sounded like a way to dodge a paperwork hassle.

I was in a very different place at that time in life and didn't think anything of it. Plus I was young and this was before the web. A call to the police would've been laughed at.

[gratuitous]

13. Apparently the plaintiffs did prove negligence

Otherwise, the jury wouldn't have found in plaintiff's favor. In fact, if the plaintiffs hadn't proved negligence, the judge would have directed the jury to render its verdict in the defendant gun shop's favor, since the necessary element of negligence was not proven by plaintiffs.

I understand the gun shop in question is notorious for selling weapons that are subsequently used in the commission of felonies, something on the order of nearly 500 versus 36 for all other outlets in Wisconsin. That sounds pretty negligent; or that the folks interested in getting a "clean" gun know which store to go to because the salespeople aren't too inquisitive about what's going to happen to the weapon once it goes out the door.

[Lurks Often]

16. They proved it to a jury's satisfaction

which is fine with me.

The other question is why the ATF or stae of local law enforcement agencies in Wisconsin didn't do more to shut the place down.

[tularetom]

4. Only cops can sue

The rest of us are fucked

[stone space]

11. asdf

[Lizzie Poppet]

29. Hey, we agree on a gun issue!

It looks like those assclowns were genuinely negligent in allowing that straw purchase. They're getting what they deserve.

I note from the article that the guy who made the straw purchase got two years, as well. That's excellent, given that straw purchase have been showed by recent research to be one of the major sources of firearms to criminals.

[pintobean]

17. Excellent!

[hack89]

19. It is not that straight forward

they presented physical evidence that made it clear that it was a possible straw purchase. The argument was that it was so obvious that the salesman should have caught it.

Straw purchases are usually very hard to detect. So suing gun stores may not become that common.

The good thing from this is that all gun stores will pay closer attention to their buyers so it may stop some straw purchases.

[NightWatcher]

20. I've seen straw purchases where guys would take their gf in the store to make the buy next to them

because they couldn't do it themselves.

Maybe it's just a rural Georgia thing where I've seen it, but I bet this goes down all over the place.

[hack89]

23. And hopefully now the salesmen will be paying attention. tn

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Illegal sale? Excellent judgment by the jurors then.

I'm totally good with it.