Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:34 PM Oct 2015

Semi-serious question: Does the Speaker even have to be a U.S. citizen?

I made an offhand remark about Manny Pacquiao being the "fighter" they're looking for here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027263398

Then it hit me: Why not? I don't read anything here that would prevent it.

Article. I....

Section. 2....

The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.


So now that we've opened the race up to the rest of the world, who else? Pooty-Poot? Harper, who will likely be unemployed as of next week?
32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Semi-serious question: Does the Speaker even have to be a U.S. citizen? (Original Post) KamaAina Oct 2015 OP
Pooty for sure, really.....LOL haikugal Oct 2015 #1
From the rules for the House of Representatives: guillaumeb Oct 2015 #2
Also, the Speaker could not ascend to the level of President, as defined in the Constitution. nt TheBlackAdder Oct 2015 #3
Under point 15, former members (think Newt) would qualify. KamaAina Oct 2015 #6
A newt is a cold blooded lizard. I thought I should mention that. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #7
While I appreciate the point, I feel I must call you up on your herpetology. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2015 #31
And I appreciate the correction. At least I got the cold blooded part correct. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #32
Under #5 anybody elected Speaker would automatically be qualified under virtue... Chan790 Oct 2015 #28
(5) says "Elected officers" though. NYC Liberal Oct 2015 #20
Yes it does. So that would seem to rule out a non-member. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #21
Speaker is an elected officer though. NYC Liberal Oct 2015 #24
"Elected officers" in this case means "elected to be an officer of the House by the members." Chan790 Oct 2015 #29
The Speaker by definition is a Member. former9thward Oct 2015 #23
We need someone who could back our foreign interests, experienced with power HereSince1628 Oct 2015 #4
I would think legally yes Travis_0004 Oct 2015 #5
So, win-win for Ted Cruz? brooklynite Oct 2015 #8
Sadly his mother was American MosheFeingold Oct 2015 #10
No for the job, yes for the pay. MosheFeingold Oct 2015 #9
American Samoans are U.S. nationals, not citizens. KamaAina Oct 2015 #11
As far as I'm aware of, they are the only U.S. Nationals as well... Humanist_Activist Oct 2015 #13
And yet Puerto Rico holds primaries! KamaAina Oct 2015 #17
Same with Guam too, and they both send delegates to the conventions for both parties... Humanist_Activist Oct 2015 #22
And before '95 they could (and did) vote in the Committee of the Whole Recursion Oct 2015 #27
Probably them MosheFeingold Oct 2015 #30
Just like the Constitution doesn't specify that the Speaker must be a member of the House PoliticAverse Oct 2015 #12
Amazing that it's possible for an unelected official to KatyMan Oct 2015 #14
Note that if the Speaker chosen doesn't meet the requirements to be President... PoliticAverse Oct 2015 #15
Hey, no thinking things through! :) KatyMan Oct 2015 #16
Yes, when Madeline Albright was SoS she would have been skipped in the presidential succession, Nye Bevan Oct 2015 #18
Excellent actual example. PoliticAverse Oct 2015 #19
Kissinger as well Recursion Oct 2015 #26
By law the Speaker must be eligible for employment in the US Recursion Oct 2015 #25

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
2. From the rules for the House of Representatives:
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:44 PM
Oct 2015

According to the rules of the House (Rule 4, Section 1), only the following people are actually allowed to enter the hall:

1.(a) Only the following persons shall be admitted to the Hall of the House or rooms leading thereto: (1) Members of Congress, Members- elect, and contestants in election cases during the pendency of their cases on the floor. (2) The Delegates and the Resident Commissioner. (3) The President and Vice President of the United States and their private secretaries. (4) Justices of the Supreme Court. (5) Elected officers and minority employees nominated as elected officers of the House. (6) The Parliamentarian. (7) Staff of committees when business from their committee is under consideration, and staff of the respective party leaderships when so assigned with the approval of the Speaker. (8) Not more than one person from the staff of a Member, Delegate, or Resident Commissioner when that Member, Delegate, or Resident Commissioner has an amendment under consideration (subject to clause 5). (9) The Architect of the Capitol. (10) The Librarian of Congress and the assistant in charge of the Law Library. (11) The Secretary and Sergeant-at- Arms of the Senate. (12) Heads of departments. (13) Foreign ministers. (14) Governors of States. (15) Former Members, Delegates, and Resident Commissioners; former Parliamentarians of the House; and former elected officers and minority employees nominated as elected officers of the House (subject to clause 4). (16) One attorney to accompany a Member, Delegate, or Resident Commissioner who is the respondent in an investigation undertaken by the Committee on Ethics when a recommendation of that committee is under consideration in the House. (17) Such persons as have, by name, received the thanks of Congress. (b) The Speaker may not entertain a unanimous consent request or a motion to suspend this clause or clauses 1, 3, 4, or 5


So according to House rules, only an elected member of the House could enter to conduct business. The point could be made that: given that the House under GOP leadership conducts no actual, substantive business, there is no real need for a Speaker to enter the chamber. Most of the deals are conducted in meetings with lobbyists.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
7. A newt is a cold blooded lizard. I thought I should mention that.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:57 PM
Oct 2015

The grandfather of government shutdowns. The perfect choice for a do nothing House that has no idea how to actually govern.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
31. While I appreciate the point, I feel I must call you up on your herpetology.
Mon Oct 19, 2015, 12:24 PM
Oct 2015

Newts are aquatic amphibians of the family salamandridae; lizards are reptiles of the order squamata.

(Yes, this is totally pointless pendatry, and I apologize, but I've just watched an episode of Dr Who whose key plot point is that the vikings can use their local population of eels to generate electricity, and I am currently on the zoological inaccuracy warpath; you just got caught in the crossfire).

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
28. Under #5 anybody elected Speaker would automatically be qualified under virtue...
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 11:08 PM
Oct 2015

of their election by the membership to be an officer of the House.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
21. Yes it does. So that would seem to rule out a non-member.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:15 PM
Oct 2015

But I assume that the House can also modify its own rules.

NYC Liberal

(20,132 posts)
24. Speaker is an elected officer though.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 10:49 PM
Oct 2015

Reps aren't officers.

But yeah, you're right on that point. So either way, they could ultimately just change it.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
29. "Elected officers" in this case means "elected to be an officer of the House by the members."
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 11:09 PM
Oct 2015

So...it's anybody elected Speaker automatically.

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
23. The Speaker by definition is a Member.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 09:00 PM
Oct 2015

And is elected by the House. So someone in he OP would qualify. Also House rules can be changed at any time. If the House were going to do something as revolutionary as choosing a non-U.S. citizen they certainly would clarify the rules.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
4. We need someone who could back our foreign interests, experienced with power
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:49 PM
Oct 2015

and ramrod resolution, someone who knows how to work from the position of a conservative leadership.

Someone who is respected by the Congress and has already interviewed with Congressional leaders.

That person is Bibi, but they'd have to negotiate to get him to give up his current gig.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
5. I would think legally yes
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:52 PM
Oct 2015

The speaker of the house is not required to be a member of congress.

However, every single speaker has been a member of congress, and I doubt that will change any time soon.

You are required to be a citizen to be elected to congress and by precedent (not law) the speaker of the house is very likely to be a current house member.

So I think legally its possible, but I don't think we will ever see it happen.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
9. No for the job, yes for the pay.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:04 PM
Oct 2015

I was a staffer for a long time for lots of different Congresscritters or the House itself. And this actually happened a lot (staffers, not necessarily speaker).

You can't get into the pay system without I-9, green card, asylum etc unless stationed overseas or working as a translater. But a lot of staffers would take the job without pay.

I believe it happened with Congresscritters a couple of times. Vaguely recall someone from American Somoa (? it was a territory of some kind) getting elected who was technically not a US citizen, but had the right of residency.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
11. American Samoans are U.S. nationals, not citizens.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:05 PM
Oct 2015

Basically, they can't vote in U.S. elections. This kind of stuff used to drive our benefits person in Hawai'i nuts!

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
13. As far as I'm aware of, they are the only U.S. Nationals as well...
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:19 PM
Oct 2015

People who were born in Puerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands and Northern Mariana Islands are natural born citizens, who can even run for U.S. President if they so choose, though, ironically, unlike residents of D.C., there are no electors for their territories, so they couldn't "vote" for president at the same time they can run to be one.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
17. And yet Puerto Rico holds primaries!
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:45 PM
Oct 2015

Even though the two parties down there are not Democratic and Republican, but pro-commonwealth (tied to the Dems) and pro-statehood (tied to the repukes!!)

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
22. Same with Guam too, and they both send delegates to the conventions for both parties...
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 08:10 PM
Oct 2015

and, as far as I know, have full voting right at party conventions, something even the elected delegates sent to Congress don't have, though I think they can vote in committees.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
27. And before '95 they could (and did) vote in the Committee of the Whole
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 10:58 PM
Oct 2015

Which is a parliamentary contrivance that lets the entire House meet "as a committee" under committee rules to conduct business. So Eleanor Holmes Norton actually has voted on laws before.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
30. Probably them
Mon Oct 19, 2015, 12:08 PM
Oct 2015

My time spread from the late 1950s to 2013 so I all I am confident about is that the law changed a few times.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
12. Just like the Constitution doesn't specify that the Speaker must be a member of the House
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:12 PM
Oct 2015

it doesn't specify that the Speaker must be a citizen of the United States.

KatyMan

(4,146 posts)
14. Amazing that it's possible for an unelected official to
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:27 PM
Oct 2015

become President. Of course, it's happened before...

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
15. Note that if the Speaker chosen doesn't meet the requirements to be President...
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:32 PM
Oct 2015

specified in the Constitution the Speaker wouldn't likely be in line for Presidential
succession.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
18. Yes, when Madeline Albright was SoS she would have been skipped in the presidential succession,
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:15 PM
Oct 2015

as a non-natural-born US citizen.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
25. By law the Speaker must be eligible for employment in the US
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 10:55 PM
Oct 2015

So the Speaker must be either a citizen, a lawful permanent resident ("green card&quot , or conceivably an H1B or O1 visa holder (and my God that would be awesome...).

This wasn't true for a long time; Congress only forbade itself from hiring undocumented immigrants after the Gingrich takeover.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Semi-serious question: Do...