Gun shop found liable in shooting of two Milwaukee police officers

[workinclasszero]

Gun shop found liable in shooting of two Milwaukee police officers

CBS NEWS October 13, 2015, 6:39 PM

MILWAUKEE -- Two police officers who were shot and seriously wounded have won their lawsuit against a gun store that sold the weapon used against them.

The jury awarded Bryan Norberg $1.5 million and Graham Kunisch $3.5 million, reports CBS affiliate WDJT.

CBS News' Adriana Diaz reports that in 2009, Officers Graham Kunish and Bryan Norberg approached 18-year-old Julius Burton for riding his bike on the sidewalk. A struggle ensued. Burton pulled out a gun and shot both officers in the face.

Surveillance video shows Burton with a friend at the Badger Gun store a month before the shooting. He paid the friend $40 to buy a gun for him because he was underage. Store Clerk, Donald Flora, appears to help the friend fill out the paperwork, Diaz reports. Flora told jurors he was unaware of an illegal sale known as a "straw purchase."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-shop-found-liable-in-shooting-of-two-milwaukee-police-officers/

[GGJohn]

1. Good!!

Now if only they would criminally prosecute these straw buyers and firearms stores that knowingly facilitate these straw purchases.

[Lizzie Poppet]

4. In this particular case...

In this particular case, I remember reading that the straw purchaser got two years in the joint. Works for me...

[GGJohn]

5. Good, hopefully the clerk was terminated. eom.

[AgingAmerican]

2. Illegal sale = legitimate lawsuit

nt

[Duckhunter935]

3. As I said in the other times this has been posted

Good, proves they are not above the law when it is proven. Unlike what a lot of people mistakenly believe.

[msongs]

6. meanwhile police murder people with impunity and no liability w/their legal guns nt

[Hoyt]

7. Now we need laws to prosecute individuals too cheap/uncaring to sell their gunz through an FFL

to ensure proper background checks are performed. Also, close gun show loophole that allows a "casual" gun trafficker to set up a booth at a gun show, drape a confederate flag on the table to attract Yahoos, and sell away without background checks.

There are simpler ways to do it, but the NRA and gun owners will whine about their rights to traffic guns.

[GGJohn]

11. ....

Also, close gun show loophole that allows a "casual" gun trafficker to set up a booth at a gun show, drape a confederate flag on the table to attract Yahoos, and sell away without background checks.

You ever been to a firearm show Hoyt?
Local police and ATF agents are there looking for just that sort of activity.
Anyone who sets up a booth has to have a permit from the venue owner and if someone is selling more than 1 or 2 firearms, they're going to get a visit from LEO demanding to see their FFL.

There are simpler ways to do it, but the NRA and gun owners will whine about their rights to traffic guns.

Pure unadulterated BS.

[Hoyt]

15. Been to many if them GG. That's where it became apparent most gun fanciers are racists.

A person who is not in the regular business of selling guns can rent a table and sell guns without a background check under federal and most states laws. That's a fact. Many gun Yahoos sell them in the parking lot as well.

[GGJohn]

23. And I'm telling you you're wrong if you think that someone can set up a table

and sell more than 1 or 2 firearms without getting the attention of LEO at the venue.
Local LE and ATF look for just such activity and will come down hard on them.

Been to many if them GG. That's where it became apparent most gun fanciers are racists.

I'm calling bullshit on that, I've been to hundreds of firearm shows across the Southwest, and while there are a few racists, most are just your every day normal citizens looking for a good deal on not just firearms, but ammo, collectibles, antiques, paraphernalia, etc.

I highly doubt you've been to lots of firearm shows, maybe a couple, but certainly not a lot.

[Hoyt]

25. Gun shows loik luje a Bundy Ranch homecoming party.

The law allows those not in the "regular business" of selling guns, to rent a table and sell without background checks. Look it up. How do you transfer your gunz?

[GGJohn]

26. "Gun shows loik luje a Bundy Ranch homecoming party."

Again, bullshit, most folks at firearm shows look just like ordinary every day citizens, so stop with the bigoted bullshit.

The law allows for a very limited number of firearms to be sold at one time without an FFL, if someone sets up a table at a firearms show and starts selling firearms without an FFL, that person is going to attract unwanted attention from local LE or the ATF.

How I transfer my firearms is none of your business.

[workinclasszero]

35. Yup right out of the trunk of their car

I can see you have been to gun shows.

[GGJohn]

36. I've been to hundres of firearm shows,

I've never once seen anything like that happening.

[workinclasszero]

40. I've only been to a few

And I saw that and the racist garbage, anti government militia stuff, prepper stuff, manuals on gorilla tactics etc.

[GGJohn]

43. Sure, there's some that push that crap,

but for the most part, it's about firearms, ammo, collectibles, antiques, etc.
As I said, I've been to hundreds of firearms shows and most patrons are just your ordinary citizen.
I have yet to see anyone selling a firearm out of the trunk of their car in the parking lot, most venue owners won't allow that to happen on their property.

[Snobblevitch]

44. The closest I've seen to that is when somebody walks around with a rifle or shotgun

over their shoulder with a price or asking for a trade.

[GGJohn]

45. Exactly!!!

That's all I've ever seen also.

[pipoman]

12. First you have to make a law requiring people to sell through an FFL

Which won't happen just like it hasn't for the last 20 years. . Oh, and the whole "gun show loophole" diatribe is redundant to your first ridiculous dream and won't happen for the same reasons...now what? More incessant yammering about the same I'm sure....

[Hoyt]

16. It should happen. Guns should not be transferred without a background check by a FFL.

Responsible gun owners, assuming there are such things, would not sell a gun without a background check.

[Lizzie Poppet]

18. That's the law here in Oregon.

I worked on the campaign to pass that law, too. Yep, me: a gun owner.

[pipoman]

19. Yeah, can't be done without enabling statutory access to NICS.

Ask Colorado.

[Hoyt]

21. Use an FFL. Private individuals should not be making background checks.

If you are too cheap to pay the $35 or so that an FFL charges, you shouldn't be selling guns.

[pipoman]

24. Haven't been following? Colorado dealers are refusing to do them

because they are not compelled to do them legally. That could be fixed but nobody really cares.

[Hoyt]

30. Just more evidence the gun culture is not responsible, and doesn't xare about the harm

the guns the acquired or sell do in our society. Callous people should not own or traffic in gunz.

[pipoman]

31. No, it's evidence that gun controllers don't really give a shit.

It would be a simple regulatory change at the federal level...probably could be done through exectutive order, but again your big gun control buddies don't want to enable a solution.

[Hoyt]

41. Problem is, private citizens would not keep proper paperwork, would not be accountable like an

Last edited Sun Oct 18, 2015, 05:41 PM - Edit history (1)

FFL, could do a background check on anyone with a SSN (wouldn't find exactly what they did, but would know if they did something putting them on no buy list), etc.

[pipoman]

46. What do you think I'm talking about?

FFL dealers do not have to do private transfer checks and many choose not to do them. If the regulations for licensure required them to conduct private sale checks for a set fee it would make it possible for states to require the NICS checks.

[GGJohn]

32. More nonsense from you.

I'm part and parcel of the firearm culture and I deeply care about the harm firearms used negligently or criminally do, but I won't take responsibility for what someone else does.

Callous people should not own or traffic in gunz.

WTF does that even mean?

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. It won't happen at the federal level, but several states have already done so.

Mine's one of them (Oregon). At the federal level, of course, it runs afoul of the prohibition of federal regulation of intrastate commerce. But nothing stops states from instituting universal background checks...

The "gun show loophole" is mostly a myth, but it is possible for a non-dealer to sell to someone w/ no BGC. I have no problem with either a state choosing to go to universal checks or with lowering the number of transactions a person can make before they have to get an FFL.

[pipoman]

33. FFLs are not required to do background checks and that is a problem

If they choose not to. Colorado is currently having this problem. Dealers are refusing, stalling, and overcharging for checks making Colorado's law unenforceable and likely to be overturned.

A regulatory change at the federal level requiring FFLs to do private sale transfers for a reasonable price, in a timely manner would solve the problem. This would probably force a NICS budget increase too...

[Lizzie Poppet]

34. Threw me there for a second...

...but I realized you were talking about FFLs doing checks for transactions they're not making themselves...for two private parties, that is. I don't know if our law here in Oregon requires the FFLs to do them (or if such a law is constitutional), but I haven't heard anything here about dealers refusing. Most seem to like the easy $25-$35. A little mom-and-pop gun shop I frequent even advertises the service, but that's mostly for online sales. He looks to find people buying from some online dealer like Bud's, and charges $30 to receive the gun and run the check. It's a small family business, so I suspect an extra thirty bucks in the till a few times a week is appreciated.

[pipoman]

47. Yes, my last post was a little ambiguous..ffls are not required to do checks on private transfers..

If Oregon has state licensure of gun shops in addition to ffl requirement maybe it is a condition of the state license that the dealer conduct checks upob request? It will probably be more difficult in larger stores? I just read about the Colorado law current challenge based on dealers refusing.

[Snobblevitch]

8. This store is notorious for straw purchses.

This was a civil case. Is there a criminal case to put these guys in prison?

[Lizzie Poppet]

10. That's a huge issue.

The laws needed to prosecute those who knowingly facilitate a straw purchase have been in place for decades...but enforcement is rare. This needs to change, given that straw purchases have been shown to be an important vector for firearms into the hands of criminals.

[pipoman]

9. That pretty much blows the shit out of the claims that

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act that Bernie supported eliminated lawsuits against gun stores, eh?

[GGJohn]

13. Oh, I'm sure there will be someone along shortly to lecture you on how wrong you

are about the PLCAA.

[pipoman]

14. I've read it unlike anyone who believes it makes

Lawsuits against gun stores or manufacturerers impossible....

[GGJohn]

17. I have also,

and there is one in particular that will argue that the PLCAA gives blanket immunity to manufacturers, distributors, and firearm store owners.
This person will even tell you that the 6 exemptions aren't really exemptions.

[Duckhunter935]

27. The regulars are noticeably quiet

On this, lol

[GGJohn]

28. Yeah, noticed that too. eom.

[Snobblevitch]

20. This is about an illegal sale of firearms.

It is illegal for an FFL holder to knowingly sell guns to a straw purchaser. This has nothing to do with the PLCAA.

[GGJohn]

29. That's one of the exemptions under the PLCAA. eom.

[Snobblevitch]

37. Weren't straw purchases illegal

prior to the PLCAA?

[GGJohn]

39. Yes, but when the PLCAA was drafted,

this was an exemption of immunity for FFL dealers, IOW, the PLCAA doesn't protect a firearm store owner if they should have known that the sale was a straw sale.

[Snobblevitch]

42. So nothing changed.

I am not talking about immunity for FFLs. I'm referring to illegal sales, which has nothing to do with PLCAA.

[pipoman]

38. Exactly...big gun control have been attacking Bernie for his support

Proclaiming it makes liability suits against gun stores/makers impossible. This case is proof those who state these lies are wrong or liars.