"Zero Tolerance" policies in the schools are bullshit

[bluestateguy]

Zero Tolerance does not permit a student who is being violently assaulted to defend himself; he just has to let himself get beat up, lest he be suspended. If he's lucky, maybe a teacher or administrator will be around at the right time to stop the
assault. If not, well, he just has to ride the beating out.

And we have some DUers who seem to favor that policy. Unbelievable.

To not allow a child being bullied to defend himself while being physically attacked may well be a violation of fundamental human rights.

[bluestateguy]

1. Kick

nt

[bluestateguy]

2. kick

nt

[1939]

3. I agree, but......

When the teacher or administrator arrives at the fight, then he has to try and referee as to who was at fault, who started it, who said what to who, etc..

[bluestateguy]

4. kick

nt

[LostOne4Ever]

5. K&R

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=indigo]All zero tolerance policies do is provide cover for the negative consequense of not thinking.

And that is what all zero tolerance policies do, encourage institutions to not think. They never have to think about context, about nuance, or even the consequences.

It is a policy for the brainless by the heartless![/font]

[bluestateguy]

6. kick

nt

[bluestateguy]

7. kick

nt

[Ex Lurker]

9. My children will defend themselves if necessary

We'll sort what happens next after the dust is clear and they're safe, and we'll involve the lawyers if need be. I will say that it's often not one on one any more. It used to be considered cowardly for multiple assailants to jump one victim. Not any more. So self defense is not always going to work. Movie fight scenes notwithstanding, even a trained martial artist is going to have trouble against three or more attackers.

[Snobblevitch]

10. Many years ago my oldest brother was being bullied on

the school bus on the way home in the afternoon.


My brother was big for his age (and ironically a target foy older bullies). Anyway, our dad told him to hit the bully on his nose. My brother was worried that would get him kicked off the school bus. (This was many years ago.)

Anyway, my brother finally had enough. He smacked the bully on his nose. There was blood. They were both evicted off the school bus. The next day, the school bus driver thanked my brother for what he did.

My brother waited until it was two blocks to our stop before he threw that punch. He's always been a pretty smart guy.

[haele]

11. People living under zero tolerance policies

Are either criminals or hypocrites who haven't been caught under their own policies yet.
Everyone will end up being a criminal under zero tolerance rules.

That what happens to them depends on whether or not they they hsve the means to buy their way out of being convicted is a conversation people should also be having about "zero tolerance".

People who support zero tolerance ether have more money than brains, or think the rules somehow won't apply to them or their loved ones.

Haele

[bluestateguy]

12. kick

:kick:

[bluestateguy]

13. kick

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[bluestateguy]

14. Kick

:kick:

[Initech]

15. Not only bullshit, they're completely unconstitutional.

I'm quite frankly surprised that they haven't been challenged in SCOTUS yet.

[bluestateguy]

16. And I'm surprised that this thread keeps dropping like a lead balloon

Some people here really overdo it with the pacifist bullshit.

[Initech]

20. I can guarantee that if I was a victim of one...

Or if I had a kid that was one, you can definitely bet that I'd have lawyers on the school faster than you can blink!

[backscatter712]

17. They're also racist.

Quick questions:

What groups get hit with the full penalties of zero-tolerance most often?

What groups manage to always have a blind eye turned to them when they break the rules, thus getting away scott-free?

Three guesses and the first two don't count.

So you have the classic zero-tolerance administrative shit-move: Turn a blind eye when a minority kid gets bullied, even beaten, but expel him when he finally gets sick of it and reacts even slightly against his bullies.

They make racist rule-enforcement and the school-to-prison pipeline even worse, because they remove all proportionality from the discipline process, so administrators can cower behind the rules when they have to justify why they're removing "undesirables" from their schools.

[bluestateguy]

18. Excellent points

nt

[meow2u3]

19. Zero Tolerance also punishes assault victims

even when they didn't defend themselves.

My roomie's son was suspended from school after some kid attacked him from behind. Not only did he do nothing to provoke the attack, he never even tried to fight back. To make matters worse, the kid who attacked him wasn't suspended. The excuse: he was on probation and a suspension would have put him in juvie.

It didn't help that the principal had it in for my roomie's twin sons. They got it in the neck for no reason.

[Orrex]

23. Out of curiosity...

Was your roomie's son suspended because he was accused of fighting, even though he was the victim?

I saw shit like that even in my high school days, long before Zero Tolerance was a thing. The assailant would kick or punch or push the victim, and after the fact it was claimed that it takes two to tango.

So the attacker wins twice: gets to hit the victim and gets the victim suspended

And the victim loses twice: gets hit and gets suspended for getting hit


Funny ol' world.

[meow2u3]

25. Yes he was

He had been suspended for fighting despite being attacked unprovoked.

[Orrex]

26. That's shitty.

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[NightWatcher]

21. Defend yourself then deal with the paperwork later

If my kid defends herself and gets sent home for 3 days, we'll go to Disney World in that time.

[Orrex]

22. Why would you punish your child that way?

Disney World?!? GAHHH!!!

[annabanana]

24. "Zero Tolerance" anything is ALWAYS BS

It feeds into the pernicious "good vs evil" narrative that is so dear to authoritarian hearts. It allows for no explanation, or even agreed upon definitions.

I despair of those who cannot see anything but black or white

[katsy]

27. Kick. Nt

[beevul]

28. Zero Tolerance" policies in ANYWHERE are bullshit. N/T

[bluestateguy]

29. Kick

kick

[Wounded Bear]

30. K & R...

Agree with most of the sentiment here.

Zero tolerance is cover for lazy authoritarians, and like most such policies is subject to, shall we say, mixed levels of enforcement.

[bluestateguy]

31. Kick

K

[bluestateguy]

32. Kick

nt