Will we find aliens first or will they find us?

[Renew Deal]

I mean one side revealing themselves to the other.

I'm talking about intelligent life. Not just microbes and amoebas.

30 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	We will find them first
	3 (10%)
	They will find us first
	18 (60%)
	Humans are the only intelligent life in the universe.
	2 (7%)
	Not sure
	0 (0%)
	Other
	7 (23%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Rex]

1. They already found us.

Not listed of course.

[Renew Deal]

4. It's possible

But I'm wondering who is going to make themselves known.

I think we're more likely to have the War of the Worlds/Independence Day/Battleship scenario than the District 9 scenario.

[Rex]

7. I was worried I should have put in the sarcasm emo.

Thanks for not taking it the wrong way. I agree with you, if humankind is any indication of what might be out there, then there are galactic wars going on in a galaxy far far away.

Hopefully not in this one, that would suck if the Empire came to our world now. We would be fuckered.

[bobalew]

158. Please. take a look at ANY major religion;

Last edited Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:02 PM - Edit history (1)

And then tell me we haven't ALREADY been re-booted, or have had our software screwed with by some superior influence...

[Ex Lurker]

90. This. They are among us. Observing. NT

[Rex]

96. But to what end?

I always wonder what the endgame is for those observing us. What could they possibly want with such a primitive biped?

[RKP5637]

108. Perhaps they view us as a SNL skit. I really can't imagine an advanced species having interest

in the multitude of dumb shits on earth!

[Rex]

114. SO we are the "ouch my balls" reality TV of the galaxy?

That sounds too funny...in that it is probably true!

NEXT: Watch the earthlings blow up more stuff and then rebuild it a few mekklars later!

[Scootaloo]

152. Really?

Because humans have shown quote a lot of interest in the other creatures on earth, even while usually considering them "lesser intelligences."

I can't imagine that another species, intelligent and curious enough to take into the stars, would simply dismiss our civilization so thoroughly. Not because we're impressive by their standards, but because we're here. I imagine that life and even civilizations are pretty common in our galaxy... but they're not so close together that neighbors can be really picky about who they interact with.

[RKP5637]

162. Time will tell, it could be interesting if they did. I do have to agree with what Stephen Hawking

says, that we have no idea what we might be dealing with. It could also be they might observe us, but not interact with us.

[Scootaloo]

163. I find Hawking's fear of alien contact a little silly

He's basing his argument on the way more technologically advanced societies on earth have tended to treat less advanced ones. Sure,that happened, but Hawking misses the why - resources, whether material like gold, wood, or oil, or ideological like souls or prestige.

A genuinely spacefaring civilization has the technology and scope to gather near-infinite material resources without ever interacting with another civilization. Why on earth (heh) would such a technologically-advanced society bother fighting us for our world, when the can just plunk it down on Mars and get whatever they need from there without a fight?

I suppose there's the possibility of blind-traveling colony ships, some distant civilization going "oh look, a habitable world" and just firing boats full of their people at us on that basis alone, sight unseen. Sort of like the core plot of Interstellar. Such a scenario doesn't seem terribly dangerous - the occupants would be greatly outnumbered, light years (and frankly, hundreds of generations) removed from their base, and the high odds of biological incompatibility means neither side has much to worry about from disease... At least until one side or the other's microbes make the inter-species jump, in which case the population with the slow microbes loses.

[RKP5637]

167. Interesting!!! Sadly, I doubt either of us will ever see anything happen in our lives, I guess. n/t

[Scootaloo]

170. I'm young enough to look forward to inheriting a Mad Max wasteland

So while talk of spacefaring cultures is a nice intellectual diversion in the moment... Yeah, not really heavily invested...

[RKP5637]

172. Yep! n/t

[RKP5637]

177. I sincerely wish you the best of luck. I think you have been left a real mess. Many of us did not

want it this way at all, but we seem overpowered over the years. Hopefully it will get better. The 2016 elections should be very telling. Many politicians today are mad women/men. It's literally become quite a circus. I don't know what more I can say, but do know that many care very much!

The intellectual diversion in the moment is fun and a relief, but we have a mess at hand.

[Glassunion]

109. Science... It's all part of Observation and Research.

Imagine that you could travel to any time in our history to observe our even more primitive past. It would in all likelihood be a very enlightening experience in observing our early human behavior.

[Rex]

111. True, but by that token wouldn't the alien species want to go back to their past

why study ours?

In some ways I can see what you mean, a cosmic anthropologist lands here to study primates. A fairly new species discovered at the edge of the galaxy.

[Glassunion]

115. That is basically what I was getting at.

They are observing us, a more primitive culture than their own. In all likelihood, they have (as a culture) gone through most of the same evolution that we have, and continue to go through before they arrived at an advanced state.

It would be equatable to being able to travel into the past to learn more of where we are today based on our own human development.

I cannot imagine any advanced society that would not go through similar evolution as our own. They would evolve from microbes, into self-aware beings, and eventually into a much more advanced life form than our own. However, along their own history, they will have waged war, fought for resources, experienced greed, selfish power... Heck I'm sure they have sexism, racism, etc... in their past as well. Observing us, all along the way would, in all likelihood, give them a first-hand observation in the probabilities of their own evolution.

[Rex]

116. That is fascinating, in that it could give them clues as to why they are like they are today.

As in when we look as far back in time as we can with our telescopes, to understand the early universe and why we are here and how we got here.

I love stuff like this and I wonder if we are wrong to assume that just because a species grows in knowledge, it naturally becomes more altruistic. I think a cataclysm can happen at a certain point in any species evolution that could lead down another path - one more like the borg.

THAT would be something to study!

[hifiguy]

144. It could be that we are both plentiful and tasty to them.

Or might serve them as lab rats serve us.

[Rex]

145. Hehe...

TO SERVE MAN! Would you like breadsticks with your side of human?

[hifiguy]

148. Careful eating the hippies, man...

[Rex]

150. Bring me the horn from the human known as Fry!

The lower horn!

[hifiguy]

154. Couldn't find a short clip of that.

It was my first thought, too.

[skepticscott]

98. The Republican debates

are the best proof imaginable of that.

[hifiguy]

146. Yep. Lizard people. No bout adoubt it.

And then there's the gone but not forgotten Spawn of Satan himself:

[LiberalArkie]

156. I agree, they were on CNBC TV Wednesday night.

[TheSarcastinator]

165. David Icke is right!

We are food for shapeshifting lizard people from beyond the moon.

[KamaAina]

173. No, we already found them.

I saw some people doing an autopsy of one on teevee years ago.

[Rex]

174. Well you know what FDR said about TVEEs and the Internets!

They couldn't show it, if it was not God's truth!

[Skittles]

180. they know we are here and want nothing to do with us?

[Duckhunter935]

2. They have already found us

[onehandle]

3. Other. First off, interstellar travel is so resource intensive, that it would be a waste.

Secondly, we will not survive to get off this rock.

[Renew Deal]

5. Now it is

But that may change in the next 1000 years.

[longship]

16. Well, my good friend, the rocket equation is not likely to be overthrown any time soon.

If ever.

The reason why we don't have Klaatu and Gort landing at the Ellipse in Washington, DC is because interstellar travel is fucking expensive in time and energy.

And I would hope that people would not be hoping on warp drives because everybody knows that warp drives are merely a method to bring the plot of a story beyond the next commercial. Nothing more. It is somewhat more elegant than a hard cut.

All the physics we know -- much of this is basic physics, not likely to ever be overthrown by anybody anywhere -- says that interstellar travel is so difficult and resource expensive that it is likely that nobody in the galaxy is doing it. The laws of the universe protect everybody. The distances are just too fucking large.

Now unoccupied robotic space craft might be a different matter. After all we have five of them leaving our solar system right now, two Pioneers, two Voyagers, and the New Horizons craft.

If we find evidence for extraterrestrial life outside the solar system, it will be most likely be a probe, not life as we would recognize it. No Klaatu. But maybe Gort.

As always, my best to you.

[Logical]

27. I doubt it is possible to ever visit other galaxy's. nt

[longship]

32. Yup! And interstellar travel too.

The time/distances are just too far.

The closest star is over four light years. Our galaxy is about 100,000 light years in diameter. Even if life is common -- no reason to doubt that -- the distance between stars with life nearby is likely huge.

[Logical]

36. Maybe worm holes are real! :-) nt

[hifiguy]

175. Or possibly the Alcubierre warp drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

[MillennialDem]

62. You're thinking about it the wrong way - I don't know if humans will ever

conquer fast (> 0.5c or even warp drives/worm holes) interstellar travel, but we will conquer death from disease and aging relatively soon (certainly in the next 1,000 years, barring a dark age).

A human that lives for millions of years? Then 0.2c slow interstellar travel with nuclear pulse propulsion (existing technology) = no problem.

[Deadshot]

70. It's too bad we won't be able to conquer death in our lifetime.

[MillennialDem]

72. Might for me. I'm 35 and have good longevity genes (most grand and great grandparents living into

their mid-late 90s).

What can happen in 60 years in medicine (1955 vs today) is pretty nuts.

But yeah, likely not :/

[Hassin Bin Sober]

81. We don't have to totally concour death for it to benefit you.

Maybe a 30 year expansion to longevity and then maybe another 50. And next thing you know....

[MillennialDem]

83. Yeah, that's true.

[Xithras]

102. Not only that....

But in the last few decades neuroscience has revealed that the the human perception of time is subjective and we've already narrowed down the parts of the brain that are responsible for it. By the time we master death, we'll have time perception down pat.

Which means: If humans have lives measured in millions of years, and a ship full of them set off on a 0.02C spaceflight to another planet that will take 100,000 years, it's possible that the crews perception of time can be sufficiently altered so that the flight only appears to take a few decades/years/months/days (we obviously don't know what the limits are). Time itself would continue to move at a speed relative to the velocity and destination of the spacecraft, but the perception of time could be so radically altered that the crew simply won't perceive it.

[krispos42]

31. The rocket equation...

...you simply need higher energy density and higher exhaust velocity. Something with nuclear fusion, perhaps, assuming we ever get that up and running.


I find the concept expressed in "The Songs of Distant Earth" very plausible. A genetically-sustainable selection of human embryos, the medical equipment to bring them to term, and a few human-like androids to raise the first generation of colonists to adulthood (after arriving at a new planet) is much more viable than sending people out in frozen sleep, or multi-generational sublight starships.

[longship]

33. Or just send the middle managers, hair dressers, and telephone sanitizers.

(Warning: SciFi reference.)

[krispos42]

40. I'll volunteer to smash the bottle of champagne on the bow of...

...ship "B".

:-D

[AlbertCat]

52. Or just send the middle managers, hair dressers, and telephone sanitizers.

Uh oh... ship"B"

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. But we know the fate that befell the Gulgafrinshans.

We should not repeat their tragic mistake.

Telephone sanitizers are people too.

[quickesst]

56. Or this one

Started rereading my old sci-fi collection recently.

Voyage From Yesteryear
James P Hogan

"The story opens early in the 21st century, as an automated space probe is being prepared for a mission to explore habitable exoplanets in the Alpha Centauri system. However, Earth appears destined for a global war which the probe designers fear that humanity may not survive. It appears that the only chance for the human species is to reestablish itself far away from the conflict but there is no time left for a manned expedition to escape Earth. The team, led by Henry B. Congreve, change their mission priority and quickly modify the design to carry several hundred sets of electronically coded human genetic data. Also included in this mission of embryo space colonization is a databank of human knowledge, robots to convert the data into genetic material, care for the children and construct habitats when the destination is reached and a number of artificial wombs. The probe's designers name it the Kuan-Yin after the bodhisattva of childbirth and compassion."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyage_from_Yesteryear

[MillennialDem]

64. Nuclear pulse is available now, if fusion doesn't pan out.

[ZX86]

41. While I am a big fan of science.

Definitive statements of what is possible and not possible is just ludicrous. Science doesn't know it's ass from a hole in ground concerning things like what's going on inside black holes, dark matter, dark energy, quantum entanglement, origins of the big bang, etc.

One doesn't have to go very far back in history to find ridiculous statements from leading scientists of their day claiming all sorts of nonsense of what is possible and not possible. Newton was an alchemist for chrissakes.

[Travis_0004]

46. Agreed

We will never need more than 640k of ram-Bill gates.

Ok, so bill gates didn't actually say it, even though its attributed to him, but that shows the thinking just 30 years ago.

Imagine a civilization with a billion years on us.

[ZX86]

50. You don't have to go a billion years.

Just a couple hundred years would do. A genius like Da Vinci couldn't reverse engineer an Iphone given all the resources of Europe.

[RKP5637]

112. Yep!!! Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[forsaken mortal]

71. Thinking too linearly

There are other possibilities for travelling around the cosmos that don't entail the primitive technology of shooting gasses out of a nozzle. Look up technology like the Alcubierre drive for instance. Sure, it's all far far in the future, but rockets might look to our distant descendants the way stone wheels look to us.

[3catwoman3]

79. Maybe we can learn to...

...tesser, the preferred method of interplanetary travel in one of my favorite childhood books, A Wrinkle In Time.

[longship]

84. Well, the responses to the Alcubierre drive suggestion...

...were telling. Ridicule does not begin to describe it.

And the highest density propellant is likely matter/anti-matter annihilation. Good luck with that one. It might help bring on an Angels and Demons scenerio. However, one must also be practical and realize that the rocket equation is a real thing. Interstellar travel is a real problem. One that is not likely to be solved because dreaming about physics shattering advances -- I call them Star Trek wet dreams -- are not going to do it.

Nevertheless, this stuff is still fun to discuss.

Hey! Is that a fairy cake?

My best to you.

[Rex]

126. No no...everything must be referenced through rockets!

The idea that an advanced species would get here using rockets is laughable. Just like us humans to believe our way is the only way.


Might as well go back to thinking the Sun is the center etc..

[onehandle]

78. Right. There are billions of star systems, billions of years ahead of us.

And yet no evidence of an approach, much less communications.

Star Wars, Trek, etc are fun fantasies, but that's exactly what they are. Fantasies.

[Shankapotomus]

85. From our point of view, it's expensive

But perhaps if you're extraterrestrials on a planet 4-8 times as large as earth and with vastly more resources, it's not.

[longship]

86. Well, that's another matter altogether.

And if you consider a planet that large, than it would kind of be like our ice giants, Uranus and Neptune. One could put such a planet in a Goldilocks orbit, but the question remains, would it have life which could build a technology?

The correct answer of course is that we just do not know.

However, the rocket equation is based on simple and, as far as anybody can tell, universal principals. It really takes a 35 story rocket to launch three dudes to the moon. Yes, it would be a lot smaller if the Saturn V had used matter/anti-matter annihilation. But it would still have had to obey the rocket equation. And that is as best as this universe apparently allows.

I mean, beyond Star Trek wet dreams and fairy cake.

[Shankapotomus]

87. Well, if we're looking for

a large supply of energy to propell us toward a nearby star, we have a giant ball of immense energy right in our own solar system. Our sun. All we need to do is figure out how to channel just a percentage of its energy into shoving a ship in the direction of the next nearest star.

[longship]

89. Light sail!

Not so sure of its practicality. Of course, once ones going, ones going. That can take one far. The problem is to stop going when one achieves ones destination. Light sails have that problem. Yup! They do.

The problem in this case is not so much going there as it is stop going there. Consider New Horizons. It did not orbit Pluto because it could not stop going there. Where? Out there someplace.

My best to you.

[Rex]

94. From a human POV, that sounds about right and is the only mindset we can imagine.

However from an alien POV, one maybe millions of years more advanced than ours...that might sound so silly that Gort is snorting hard through his intakes! "Simple bipeds and their fixation with light". Snort snort snort.

We don't know enough yet to make bold claims imo. We can follow the science, that is all we have besides our imagination.

[longship]

100. Well, the universe is governed by universal laws.

One does not have the right to just make shit up for a mere plot device when one is acting in the real universe. Then one has to deal with actual physics, which to all existing evidence applies everywhere.

Nevertheless, people still make shit up, mostly for amusement, sometimes for an agenda. I prefer the former to the latter because I like amusing excursions, not so much blinkered ignorance.

The universe seems to obey certain rules. Conservation laws, symmetry, etc. Newton and Einstein did not become famous for nothing. They became famous because of their formulations of how the universe works. Now here on this forum we have people posting that they were wrong.

I say, prove it! (You'd win a Nobel Prize.) Otherwise I am going to ridicule it. Sorry, no warp drives in this universe, no matter how much one likes Star Trek. (And I do!)

[Rex]

101. Yet the way you type it, they seem set in stone and you know that is not true.

The laws change as we learn more about the Universe. I find it interesting that you do not know that Einstein lost his bet and WAS wrong...

You can pretend we live in a static universe, but modern science will disagree with you. You should know that.


"The universe seems to obey certain rules." And we know them all now? Seems we do?

We don't, not by a long shot.

[longship]

104. The universe is what it is.

Physics is the study of what that might be. So yes, it is kind of set in stone. And science is to find that out.

I would love to live in a universe with warp drives, however that would upset some very primary basic principles that we already take as demonstrably true. So to anybody who claims to have such a stellar drive I would say, "publish or perish". Put your damned cards on the table. If it can survive peer review and replication, you may win the Nobel. If not, you are likely wasting everybody's time.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

That's how things work in a field where one does not just get to make shit up.

[Rex]

106. You must not like theoretical science much.

Never made a single claim about anything of sci-fi nature, you will have to show me where I did that. Just that my pet peeve is arrogant people that believe we know everything now. Wrong.

Also we are talking about some other species with a far more advanced knowledge of the universe than we have, does that bother you? If so, then we are wasting our time having a discussion.

[longship]

110. Well, that would be a straw man.

I never wrote that we know everything, and you know that. What I wrote was that there are certain universal principles which demonstrably apply throughout the universe. Now maybe I did not make that very clear. That would be my bad. I apologize if I did that.

However, anybody who stakes a claim that violates the basic principles of what we do know about the universe -- including Newton, Einstein, conservation laws, rocket equation, etc. -- had better have their shit together. Just making shit up isn't going to do it.

So I stand by my posts. In spite of the fact that warp drives would be really cool, they seem to violate the basic science which tells us how the universe works.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If one claims to be holding a warp drive in ones hand, either show it or fold it. The hand has been called. Oopsy! No negative energy. (What does that even mean?) That means no warp drives there.

[Rex]

113. Sorry did not mean you in particular.

But I've heard a certainty in some that borders on arrogance. People made shit up until they knew better. The Sun was the center of the universe, then the Earth was, etc.. Making shit up is great, I have no idea why you keep harping on warp drives...but go on with your bad self. Your fixation with distance and velocity seems to be a hang up for you.

We are not talking about US...you seem to be unable to dislodge yourself from our reality. So have a good one! I will go and discuss this with people that have a creative brain and also like to talk about science. One without the other is self defeating.

[longship]

119. Creativity in science does not mean making shit up.

Science fiction is not science. With the former one gets to make shit up, in the latter, not.

Like warp drives, which likely do not exist, just like the mysterious negative energy substance on which it depends. Might as well fucking call it dilithium crystals, which also do not exist.

In science one does not get to make shit up. That is how science is different. Again, the warp drive claim does not stand up.

I am done here.

My best to you.

[Rex]

120. Who cares about warp drives? Geez is that all you got?

YES it DOES mean making shit up and then testing the theory to see if you are right! Wow, yeah we are done here...your understanding of the process seems lacking so it is a waste of time now.

Good day.

[zipplewrath]

157. We know them all yet

It is governed by "laws" but we don't know them all yet. A lot of smart people are working on Grand Unified Theorems, but they don't have one yet. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that this will modify the rocket equation.

The real problem is exactly what you allude, almost regardless of what concept anyone can dream up, it always implies tremendous kinds of energy. Really, on the level of a black hole. That's ALOT of energy. I'm not one to suggest that it is impossible, but I do suggest that its going to be a REALLY long time before we get anywhere close to that.

[Oneironaut]

121. We would need stable wormholes

That in itself would be a mammoth task. Otherwise, you can't go at or over the speed of light (we think).

[longship]

123. Yup! That is my reading of the universe as well.

Unlike some folks here who apparently think that one can just make shit up and the universe will align itself with ones shit. Like warp drives, and other Star Trek/Wars wet dreams. Might as well dream up Jar-Jar for all the good it will do.

Thank you for responding.

[Oneironaut]

129. Yw. If you used a warp drive that brought you even very close

to the speed of light, you would also get nowhere in terms of the massive size of the observable universe.

Speaking of the Milky Way alone, it is 100,000 light years across! Alpha Centauri, the closest star even to our sun, is 4.367 light years away. That would be a long nap for a traveler!

[longship]

137. Don't forget time dilation.

Even if one could approach the speed of light in a space craft, one would travel also into the future. What good is going to the other side of the galaxy and back when you've aged years and the Earth has aged many thousands of centuries? Hell, humans might even be extinct! I guess one could take along a woman and try a reboot when one returns. Too bad one doesn't have a breeding population.

I suggest one populates the craft with middle managers, hairdressers, and telephone sanitizers. That way things will be well organized, everybody will be well coiffed and all the telephones will be clean, whenever we get around to reinvent them.

[Oneironaut]

139. True. That would be hilariously pointless.

It's like, "I'm back! Wait, where's the earth? Why is the sun so big?" Lol

[Rex]

124. We think.

Yet some of us pretend to know everything and get mad when you bring up anything that is outside THEIR box.

[Fumesucker]

138. If you have the resources of an entire solar system things start to look different

Take a couple or a dozen minor planets and make them into a laser and solar power plant, your probe is a light sail propelled by the laser. You don't have to carry propellant or provide energy onboard, both thrust and power on board come from the laser back in solar orbit.

If we ever get to the point of sending out interstellar probes we'll have quite a good idea of what's there before we start, remote sensing technology is growing by quantum leaps and space based instruments can be arbitrarily large and have arbitrarily fine resolution.

Not to mention that sending human bodies over interstellar distances is ludicrous, biological carbon based life requires ridiculously stringent environmental constraints lest it become inadvertently inert. Much better to send downloaded or even artificial personalities in some considerably less perishable and bulky form.

[longship]

142. Yes, but there's still the problem of huge distances.

And in spite of some folks' Star Trek wet dreams, that is not going to change. What good is communication with a robotic probe that is light years away? Maybe many light years away, presuming one could even do that.

That is the answer to the Fermi paradox. Interstellar travel is a real bitch! And communication with an interstellar craft is near impossible. Then, there's time dilation if one is traveling a significant fraction of the speed of light, even if that is possible.

Myself, I prefer mathematician Ian Stewart's and biologist Jack Cohen's answer to the Fermi paradox. Nobody is transmitting because everybody is listening. There are no signals because they are all waiting for a signal. Kind of makes some silly sense.



BTW, Stewart and Cohen have collaborated on some science and science fiction works. I like how they think.

[Fumesucker]

155. Distance is immaterial to immortal beings who can manipulate their sense of time at will

I'm not talking about sending a robot probe, I'm talking about going as a virtual personality.

Something along the lines of what happens in "Accelerando"

http://www.amazon.com/Accelerando-Singularity-Charles-Stross/dp/0441014151

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando.html

One of the best things I've read in a long time is Peter Watts's "Blindsight", depressing as all get out but a riveting read with some ideas I have not encountered before.

http://www.amazon.com/Blindsight-Peter-Watts/dp/0765319640

http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

[Glassunion]

149. True. In our current stage of understanding the universe, that makes sense.

However, in the future we only stand to learn more about our universe and the laws that govern it. Perhaps, several centuries from now, we will find a way to manipulate space/time without violating those most basic of laws. The galaxy may one day end up a much smaller place than we see it now.

A century ago it would take me well over a month to travel to Chicago. Today, it would take me about 2 1/2 hours. The world was much bigger back in those days.

[longship]

153. Well, relativity kind of puts any such advancements aside.

There likely will be no warp drives, nor even close to light speed drives (rocket equation).

This is apparently how the universe works. And no matter how many centuries of advancements happen, those principles will very likely stand.

Science is a very conservative methodology. Einstein not so much replaced Newton as he added to Newton. That is why we still use Newton, not Einstein, to land probes on distant planets. General relativity is more accurate, but Newton got it right and is accurate enough to land on Saturn's moon Titan.

This idea that new scientific theories wholly replace old ones is hogwash. That is not how science works.

My regards.

[Glassunion]

160. I don't know where you got the idea that I was implying that new scientific

theories would wholly replace old ones. I never stated nor implied it. In fact I quite clearly stated "without violating those most basic of laws". The laws of the physical universe are immutable, and will not change. I would never state the opposite.

What I am stating is: Who are we to say that there will never be another scientist who will further add to the basic principals? Science and the study of physics has not reached its ceiling. It did not stop with Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Bohr, Hawking, etc, and I do not see it stopping any time, ever. The study of physics continues today, and the tools that science has at its disposal are far greater than any others to date. With these tools, we can record and observe our physical universe at a pace far greater than we could in all of the centuries leading up to our industrial revolution. This has accelerated our understanding of physics, but not once has it re-written it. I feel we will continue to learn and grow our understanding of the immutable physics of the universe. And one day we may be able to use that understanding for interstellar travel.

[Rex]

161. Sadly for some it stopped with Einstein.

They are stuck in another time period.

[longship]

166. Interstellar travel. That's the thing here.

First, the distances are huge. The galaxy is really, really big. And the distances between stars is really, really large. So I have that going for me in this discussion.

Add the fact that to think about interstellar travel one must consider high velocities, otherwise it is a complete non-starter. Oh! And then we have to start considering time dilation and what the fuck one would do about the atoms impinging on a spacecraft traveling any significant fraction of light speed. Of course, that means shielding, which means more mass. And... We are back to that nasty old rocket equation again, which is where I believe we started.

Sorry! Your case, whatever it is, does not stand.

I sincerely apologize for being impolite and I thank you for your response. However, I must reject it, mainly due to what basic science says. This stuff is physics 101.

My best to you.

[Glassunion]

168. Goldfish in a bowl.

How fast can the goldfish swim? Do you even think think that the goldfish is aware of the bowl he is in? If the fish were smart, he'd realize that the entire universe is not water that he is swimming in, and that it takes far less energy to travel above the water's surface. So the fish should simply create an airship, fill it with water and travel above the surface.

The question in relation to that is how smart are we as humans? Now water is quite a dense medium in which to travel through. Air, is much less dense, and the near perfect vacuum of space is much less dense than air. Is there another surface we don't see, or have yet to discover? Have we discovered everything? No... Far from it. Are we the fish existing in our own aquarium unaware of the zoo above the surface?

[longship]

169. Huh? nt

[Glassunion]

179. 98 to 99%

That's the percentage of genetic material we identically share with our closest relative primates. Are they intelligent? No not really. The best of them can muster what? Some sign language... An expression of basic emotions. That's cool I guess. But I've met toddlers who can do the same.

The only genetic difference that separates us is that 1 to 2%. There is something in that small percentage that industrialized the world, put humans on the moon, have launched probes who are just starting their journey outside of our solar system. 1 to 2% gave us global communications, vaccines for deadly diseases, and chocolate. That's it... Just a 2% difference. Hell I share about 90% of my genetic material with my cat, and 50% with a piece of fruit.

Now the most "amazing" thing that that primate can do, the vast majority of all of humanity can do before their second birthday. Now imagine if there was a species that had another genetic difference in the same direction that we are from chimps? How would they see us? We could put our best and brightest in front of them... I'm thinking Hawking... A person who can perform the most complicated of equations in his mind alone. This genetic superior would look at our most brilliant of abilities and say "oh look... How cute. My little Billy did the same thing. Look, here is his interpretation of quantum mechanics stuck on the fridge".

Imagine a civilization of people, only separated by a fractional difference in genetic material from ourselves. But a figurative chasm of evolution creating that difference. Where children can do advanced physics as easy as our children can use simple tools or construct a Lincoln Log cabin. Where string theory, or quantum mechanics are a native ability, like language.

What do you think a being like that would be capable of? I think they'd be capable of concepts that we can barely imagine, let alone perform. They could possibly have such a deeper understanding of physics that interstellar or even inter galactic travel could be possible, timely, and even not so energy intensive. They may be skipping along the surface of the water, while we are stuck down here not even aware that there is a surface at all.

[Rex]

171. See? Stuck in another time period.

He has no idea what you are talking about, of course I do...I watched that lecture.

[Glassunion]

181. Indeed

[B Calm]

6. Who's to say, maybe we're from another planet.

[Rex]

9. With close to 7 billion people that we know of, it makes me wonder

if some of us have been here for a long time and are from another planet. How would the natives know? A race that can match our natural evolution with advanced technology.

Never have a clue.

[fadedrose]

17. Our creators were...we were built here .... nt

[Kilgore]

38. I know my next door neighbor has to be!!

It would explain a lot.

[Rond Vidar]

8. I find it far more likely that we'll find evidence of an extraterrestrial civilization than that one

will visit us.

The technological hurdles to interstellar travel are rather daunting.

[Renew Deal]

10. That makes sense

I wonder how long it will take to get high quality cameras far enough away to spot something.

[Rond Vidar]

11. It's unlikely we'll spot them through visual evidence. Radio emissions are much easier to detect.

[JonathanRackham]

12. Always thought they'd avoid us.

Sit back and watch our species exterminate itself.

[Renew Deal]

13. That will take patience.

[fadedrose]

14. The aliens seeded the planet

and created humans, along with other experimental creatures whose skeletons bewilder scientists. There are still aliens residing inside the earth and on the moon.

There are probably real aliens who might do us harm, and nobody knows when that will happen.

When scientists study space and the other planets, they become more curious as to how we got here...this beautiful green and blue planet with wonderful animal life, precious metals, and varieties of plants and trees we haven't even discovered all yet.

We are no accident.

[LuvNewcastle]

34. "We are no accident."

I agree. We don't know much about our history now, but I think we'll find out a lot more as we explore new areas of the planet. I am just as interested in archaeology and anthropology as I am in cosmology. We're seeing fascinating discoveries all the time. If we could cooperate rather than fight all the time, there's so much more we could learn.

[tkmorris]

51. Who did this to you?

[fadedrose]

59. I am not a solid believer in anything I said

But I do think a lot about it. What I like best is stuff like astronauts and people who have seen them - pilots, etc.

We've had presidents who have seen them. Astronauts have seen them on the moon, spaceships have been seen on the dark side.

There are things on the earth over 10,000 years old built by man or whatever. The bible was written somewhere around 500 bc, but the creation stories are similar to the Sumerian writings written long long before that. There are explanations for Sodom and Gomorrah that differ from the bible = nuclear blasts, etc.

There is so much to learn and know but people have an attitude that if you don't seen on on the WH Lawn, they don't exist. When I was about 12 and a little older, ufos flew over DC, pictures were in the paper.. I know pilots who have seen them.

It's a lot to think about and kind of satisfaction everytime I see a new ruins discovered - in the Mideast, South America, and hear about Native American origins of man. There are observatories built at ruins where things are shown that were centuries ahead of their time...If you don't feel the excitement of thinking stuff that is not what you learned in school, I feel very sorry for you.

Cave drawings of what looks like space ships, even old religious paintings show what looks like ufos...

And most of all, in my case, an agnostic, I feel there is a God wish in every person, but it's more like a search for origin.

Clinton tried to get the CIA to tell him about them, and claims they didn't tell him anything. Podesta is deep into them and has a forward in a UFO book written by Leslie Kearns. So does Miles O'B O'Brien have an interest and also has a forward in a book or 2. There is so much out there and it is all a lot more interesting than the Kardashians.....H2 has some interesting creatures on now - carvings on walls and tombs - human figures with birds' heads..
Thousands of years old. The caliph that ISIS wants is the cradle of civilization. People so intelligent they invented our number system. Did they have help - from somewhere...

I don't know or am sure of anything, but I derive a lot of pleasure from learning and trying to piece together all this stuff.

I will probably delete this for obvious reasons...

[wheniwasincongress]

77. I saw your critical thinking flying around in a spaceship with aliens

an astronaut saw it too so it's definitely real, you know astronauts can't possibly see things incorrectly or lie or hallucinate.

[prayin4rain]

97. What's your critical thinking filled explanation of our origins? n/t

[Shankapotomus]

91. Have you ever read any non-fiction by Carl Sagan?

If not, his books will be able to dispel you of a lot of these questions. "The Demon Haunted World" would be the best place to start.

[Codeine]

69. Sigh. nt

[Curmudgeoness]

122. You forgot the sarcasm smilie. nt

[fadedrose]

147. No. Molten Core

The moon is hollow. Read "The Moon is a Spaceship," written way long time ago, (80's or so) author forgotten, available at libraries.

Recommended by some doomsday book, author forgotten, that said the world was ending soon. Since then it's ended many many times. Most notably in 2012, when the Incas calendar ended, and a month ago when we had 2 full moons.

See what I mean? You can't believe anything you read or hear on TV, but it is more fun to think about than politics, movie stars, which come and go, and global warming, which is a real threat.

[krispos42]

15. Some astrophysicists make the argument that...

...given the age of our star, the age of the universe, and the size of our galaxy, they should have been here millions if not billions of years ago. The lack of contact (and our very existence as a free and independent species) would seem to indicate that we're alone in the galaxy.

The book was persuasive, at least.

[Yupster]

24. My guess is we find then first, and they are

primitive life forms like bacteria or amoebas.

[krispos42]

26. And then we keep them from evolving into an advanced life-form.

See how that works?

[Avalux]

18. They ARE us. We just haven't figure it out yet. n/t

[Initech]

19. Donald Trump has to be an alien, there's no other explanation!

[roamer65]

20. I tend to believe we are under quarantine.

We are a violent species, not even able to show empathy to our own kind. For us to come into contact with other less developed, but benevolent species would be a disaster.

I think our solar system is a "no go" region and our tinkering with nuclear weapons would be a real big red flag.

[2naSalit]

80. Now that makes sense.

And perhaps we came here in nonphysical form and "borrowed" DNA from resident species to build our physical forms in order to make use of the biospheric elements... a concept that was offered during a recent night watching the sky among some friends and myself.

Or maybe we are being watched/monitored and since most of the population can't see due to light pollution, they just can't imagine that there could be such a thing..

I live in a place where light pollution does not exist and there are some nights when I go out to look at the sky I see a variety of objects, there are things out there moving about that don't appear to be made on this planet. In this area we can usually see satellites and the ISS... but then there are those other things thtat aren't in that category and couldn't be by looking at their behavior in motion.

I saw several of those "things" during the recent lunar eclipse, and I was not alone but with very intelligent humans who were intrigued by what we were seeing. It was so dark during the eclipse that the milky way was reflected on the lake below as we watched the sky on a high butte. Some of those flying things were moving way too fast across the sky and not always in a straight trajectory-like right angles and were only visible with binos, which we all had, a couple were visible without binos... but we all saw them and talked about them for a long while.

There are other things/beings out there and I think it's arrogant and foolish to think we are the only form of intelligent life.

There is a certain "set of beliefs" that are used to control how we think and interact on this planet and variance from that "set" is usually dealt with via swift ridicule and condemnation, sad but that's what we do. Open mindedness on this subject isn't one of our strong suits.

[RKP5637]

117. Well, as some have said ...

We are a failed extraterrestrial experiment.

I have a hard time not agreeing.

If one sits back and looks at what goes on, it's a total WTF. A species on a tiny spinning ball of dirt deploying enormous resources to exterminate each other and most other living things, and also earth. And filled with cheating, greed and often an overwhelming desire to F over everyone/anything together with an enormous lack of cooperation, that relishes competitive destructive behavior.

It's really hard to conclude otherwise ...

[Paulie]

21. We will find them in the end...

[hunter]

22. They are all over the place. We're simply to dim witted to notice.

Heck, we don't even know what the Orcas are talking about, and we have more in common with them than we do any "space aliens."

[alphafemale]

23. They found us terminally useless and moved on.

meh

[BlueJazz]

43. Actually, your answer is logically the best. Any species with the high-intelligence to travel the..

... immense distances and has also not destroyed themselves would give us (maybe) a passing glance, move on, and then think about what they're having for supper...

[alphafemale]

47. Thankfully we do not taste good.

Or something.

[BlueJazz]

53. They probably didn't want to take the chance they'd catch something.

[forsaken mortal]

68. Not Necessarily

There are scientists who enthralled with studying ants and bacteria. There could be a scientist among our hypothetical alien visitors who see us and study us in much the same way.

[alphafemale]

74. Ants are interesting. nt

[BlueJazz]

76. No..I doubt that very seriously ( ew era ton essopsus ot klat tuoba taht !)

[longship]

25. Given the fact that we are in our technological childhood...

I would go with "they will discover us first".

After all, all one needs to do is see Earth's oxygen rich atmosphere to know that there is life here. And that has been true for hundreds of millions of years, radio emissions only about 100 years. Sorry galaxy, no Shadow radio broadcasts for you. Not for a long while.

So just as we are only now building telescopes that can detect the compositions of the atmospheres of extra terrestrial planets that we have only first discovered less than two decades ago, there may be other life within our galaxy that may be observing us. But they are not likely to be listening to our radio broadcasts -- which barely get beyond 100 light years. But our atmosphere alone would flag our planet as one of interest, and that would have been detectable for hundreds of millions of years, and one can substitute light years there, too.

[Kalidurga]

28. Given how young our universe is compared to the others...

Not sure why we call it a universe...but anyway. If time is infinite in both directions it stands to reason other universes existed or currently existed. There is no telling how many of them there are, we can't see out of our ant farm so to speak. So, I think in terms of infinity that it is very possible that they have came and saw and went, leaving no trace never to return cuz worm holes aren't a real thing. OTOH I can't see what would motivate aliens to visit in the first place unless it's just to see new things. As some have said it would be very labor intensive, very expensive, and any aliens traveling here would be unlikely to ever see their family and friends again.

[6chars]

29. They will come here to serve Man

How cool will that be?

[Kilgore]

37. Well Played

[Art_from_Ark]

42. Well, I for one won't be lining up for a rocket trip

to Their Planet

[H2O Man]

30. Yes.

[Kilgore]

35. Obvious simple answer, they just want to Serve Man

[ZX86]

39. They're already here.

They chose not to interact with us. People watch too much sci-fi. Beings that have mastered interstellar travel have no reason to be our friends, engage in trade, or go to war with us. No more than we want to be friends with squirrels in the forest. What are we going to do? Trade our supercollider technology with them in exchange for some berries and twigs?

They are here because this is a planet that supports life. We are at best a protected species to them. Of little interest outside scientific curiosity. Just another primitive lifeform on a planet that supports life.

We are a lot closer to simians than aliens are to us on the evolutionary ladder and we never consider integrating apes into our society as equals. Why makes anyone think a highly advanced alien race would view us any differently?

[Shankapotomus]

93. I think, as we are probably

on the cusp between primitive and intelligent, aliens would find us very interesting, as we would find a living example of an Australopithecus or Neanderthal a memorizing curiosity, at the least. Of course, we would want to attempt to communicate with a Neanderthal. If just for the scientific learning opportunity alone.

[fadedrose]

44. History 2 Channel has some UFO stuff on now

It's interesting. I don't crave ufo news as much as I did long ago before I had a computer. There's a lot of stuff out there, most phony. I love politics, but when I get tired of all the bickering, I enjoy relaxing with a ufo program...

Podesta has a great interest in UFOs....I wonder if he's had contact or something....the Clintons are interested too....

[RKP5637]

127. It's very difficult to refute the evidence IMO that some really interesting, mysterious and

bizarre activity has occurred on earth. I think mankind is far from understanding what has/is going on. I also enjoy some of the stuff on History 2.

I know people make jokes about the Big Hair Guy, but really, they do touch on some interesting topics. I've always hoped in my lifetime some interesting revelations would be made, but I'm running out of time.

One day it will happen, I hope I'm here.

[Half-Century Man]

45. It is mathematical impossible for there to be no other intelligent civilizations in our galaxy

Planets are very common. Planets in the "Goldilocks zone" are being discovered all the time.
Here on this site, we have been offered links to science articles discussing multi universes and the super abundance of oxygen in some comets this week alone.
Science constantly bring to light new discoveries and so few people see the unbelievable ramifications.

As an example; Dark matter and Dark Energy
What we can perceive, everything we can see, feel, use, and we have a measure as how it effects us; is 4% of what should be there according to our measurements. 74% of what must be is Dark Energy, 21% is Dark Matters.
http://hetdex.org/dark_energy/dark_matter.php
Suspended in the vast absence of atoms that is the vacuum of space is a matrix of Dark Matter and Dark Energy structure quite like a sea sponge. All of everything is locked in that barely detectable matrix.
Between your eyes and your keyboard is greater than you thought by 95% right now. Everything you thought was you is off by 20X.
That is what Dark Matter and Dark Energy are. We don't even know what it does to us and how.

[Spider Jerusalem]

48. Nope.

We won't find them, they won't find us. Intelligent life probably exists elsewhere in the universe, but faster-than-light travel is impossible. Even if there is another intelligent species capable of spaceflight as close as Proxima Centauri, they'll never make contact because the distance is too great.

[L. Coyote]

49. Life is a property of matter.

Good luck refuting that.

[Travis_0004]

54. I think Fermi Paradox makes for interesting reading

3 possibilities

We are First
-We like to think of ourselves as special, so I can see this being a common thought. There is a concept known as the great filter, which explains the Fermi Paradox "Where is everybody?" There are 100 earth like planets for every grain of sand on every beach on earth. Think about that for a second.

The Great Filter theory says that at some point from pre-life to Type III intelligence, there’s a wall that all or nearly all attempts at life hit. There’s some stage in that long evolutionary process that is extremely unlikely or impossible for life to get beyond. That stage is The Great Filter. If we are first, then the great filter is behind us.

We're Fucked
-This concept basically says the great filter is ahead of us. It could be nuclear war, global warming, or an asteroid killing us all, but this possibility means our days are numbered. When people talk about life on mars I tend to think it would be the WORST possible news ever. And finding somewhat complex life forms is even worse. This would point to evidence that the great filter is ahead of us, and not behind us, which is not great news. (something rare should never happen twice on two planets next to each other. To find simple life on mars would suggest that life forming is common, and therefore not a great filter event.)

Civilizations are out there, and there are logical reasons we have no heard from us

-Maybe they visited in the past. Scared the shit out of a few ducks before humans even existed. Even our writing system only goes back 6,000 year. An alien visit before then would likely be lost in history. A visit after our writing system existed would likely be attributed to God, and possibly the source of some myths today.

-Maybe we are in some remote area. Keep in mind, there are still tribes on earth largely un-contacted.

-Colonization seems like a odd idea to an advanced civilization. They could build their own utopia and have no desire to explore.

-Advanced predator civilizations exist, and most civilizations are smart enough not to advertise their location.
Carl Segan said “the newest children in a strange and uncertain cosmos should listen quietly for a long time, patiently learning about the universe and comparing notes, before shouting into an unknown jungle that we do not understand.”

-An advanced predator civilization is the only superpower, and they keep everybody else in check. Its not worth their time to wipe out a primitive civilization, but once society gets advanced enough to be a threat, they wipe them out.

-There is plenty of noise, but we are not listening properly. I could walk into a skyscraper in New York, get on a walkie talkie, ask if anybody is there. When all I hear is silence, I declare the building empty. There are plenty of people in the building, but they are on cell phones.

-The government is hiding evidence. Somebody had to suggest it.

They are observing us from a distance-Prime Directive

-We are too primate to understand them. "Lets say we have an ant hill in the middle of the forest. And right next to the ant hill, they’re building a ten-lane super-highway. And the question is “Would the ants be able to understand what a ten-lane super-highway is? Would the ants be able to understand the technology and the intentions of the beings building the highway next to them?"-Micheal Kaku

---------------------------------------
I tend to believe we are the first and unique. Perhaps is human to think you are special. I think there is most certainly other life forms, but I think in this galaxy, there are no super aliens. Perhaps some equal to us, or maybe still developing fire, but I think most civilizations will kill themselves off before they reach a type 2 or 3 civilization (Type 2 or 3 refers to the Kardashev scale). I believe that if there are advanced civilizations we will be contacted first. Our radio waves have traveled about 200 light years (this is even optimistic, since 200 years ago, radio waves were not powerful, and they were not pointing up.

Take a look


Its much more likely that we would pick up radio waves from a civilization that existed thousands, or millions of years ago. Plus, given the distance, even if they find us first, if they can not travel to us, we won't even know they found us.

Let say they receive our signal from 200 years ago. Realize its coming from earth, and transmit back. It will be another 200 years before we receive it.

That said, I do agree with the others that physical travel to far distances is impossible, but I think self replicating robots will be possible in the future. If I could build a robot, to head to Mars, take 500 years, and produce two new robots using the raw materials on Mars, I could colonize the whole galaxy in under 4 million years. To us, 4 million years seems like a long time, but there are planets 4 billion years older than ours. (For reference, 3.5 billion years ago, the T-Rex was roaming the earth.)

[peace13]

55. Already here....

....residing in the House and Senate!

[LiberalElite]

57. They have already found us - and kept on going...

having enough information to answer the age-old question - is there intelligent life on Earth?

[leveymg]

58. Anyone who has ever had a premonition knows that thinking is the best way to travel.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. We'll find them... nonexistent. n/t

[Throd]

61. We first arrived on your Earth year 1967.

I think it was a Tuesday.

[spanone]

63. there was a gaggle of 'em in Boulder last night

[Deadshot]

66. A ton of energy is needed for space travel.

A spaceship will get nowhere if it travels at speeds of 1,000 mph. It'll have to go so much faster in order to cover any distance.

To put things into perspective, the speed of light travels at 186,282 miles per second, which equates to 670,616,629 miles per hour. To help you imagine the size of our solar system, it takes the sun's light 5.3 hours to reach Pluto. Pluto is about 3.67 billion miles from the sun. Remember, the sun's light is travelling at the speed of light. Imagine how long it'd take to get to Pluto going only a fraction of that velocity. And, the faster an object approaches the speed of light, the more mass the object gains. If we were to take something the size of a spaceship and attempt to reach the speed of light, we'd need a ton of energy. That kind of energy isn't readily available.

So, to answer your question, the odds of aliens traveling to Earth or for us to travel outside of the solar system is slim to none.

[beevul]

67. The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe...

The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us.

[wheniwasincongress]

75. Have you read Carl Sagan's Contact?

It muses on a lot of different human-and-aliens-meet scenarios. Such as, perhaps we are to aliens as ants are to us - we know they're there and we know about ant lives, but we don't bother trying to communicate with them because we are so much more advanced than they - ants are incapable of understanding us. Or perhaps an alien species has a lifespan that is so long, that a single word they speak takes the lifetime of a human to finish.

[2naSalit]

82. If we keep

thinking inside the box, how can we ever know what's outside of our box?

All these points about the impossibility of travel from one galaxy to another or whatever is based on what we know on this planet as in what we have discovered so far. This is similar to climate change denial, there are infinite ways to go about this albeit not many involve our current physical form and the physical world. Perhaps there are other systems of travel and communication that none dare speak of because of the possibility of offending religious sensitivities or some system of thought which requires earth-bound physical reality sans any other form of energy. If we think about it in terms of energy, of course we're talking only about energy types that we know here on this planet, it is not all visible or physical.

And then there is the possibility that there are beings from other planets already here and we just can't tell them apart from ourselves because of our unwillingness to investigate. And I suspect that our unwillingness is due to the probability that it would scare the crap out of most of us. And maybe they are the orcas and dolphins and whales.

There are so many possibilities, I would not just wave them off as nonexistent.

[hobbit709]

88. They came, took a look, and put us on a quarantine list.

[Paper Roses]

92. I agree, they were smart and left us alone. n/t

[Javaman]

95. they already found us then ran the other way. nt

[ProfessorGAC]

99. They'll Find Us First

From about 10 light years out and will get no closer. We're too savage and primitive for a space faring species to care about.

[yuiyoshida]

103. We are the Aliens and they are us...

we're all made of STAR DUST... I can't believed that rhymed.

[Scout]

105. aliens have already found us. n/t

[RKP5637]

107. Some estimates are they could be about two billion years more advanced than us.

Mankind on Earth holds itself far too important in the big scheme of things. About 100 years ago about 50% of Americans did not even have indoor toilets. Really, we on Earth cannot begin to even comprehend aliens IMO. And even remotely thinking of interstellar travel as using conventional propulsion systems is totally laughable. In essence, we are little specks of sh** in a universe beyond comprehension, and some recent theories suggest there are multiple universes to the n'th.

[Rex]

118. Thank you!

'And even remotely thinking of interstellar travel as using conventional propulsion systems is totally laughable.'

I was trying to find those words!

[Oneironaut]

125. Also, here's a humbling thought:

Our closest neighboring galaxy, Andromeda, is 2.537 million light years away (the distance light can travel in a year's time). If you traveled at the speed of light (requiring an infinite amount of energy), it would take you a whopping 2.537 million years to get there. Humans haven't even existed for a fraction of that time.

It's impossible to truly fathom the sheer size of that distance alone.

[Rex]

128. Unless you know how to bend space and time to make two points anywhere in the universe met.

Probably not possible, but who knows.

[Oneironaut]

130. Exactly. I can't claim to be an expert or even close.

I guess the real problem with creating a wormhole or traveling through space time is, once you do it, how do you make it practical? Sending a particle from one end of the universe to another would be a huge feat. Sending something large, like a single-celled organism for example, would be mind blowing. It just gets crazier from there.

[Rex]

132. Agree...the more outrageous we get, the crazier it gets.

That is a great example, one particle as opposed to a single celled creature - to a complex machine with inner and outer workings that defy human reasoning. The energy required is unimaginable...but it is fun to try!

[get the red out]

131. What kind?

Microbes or intelligent life?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

133. Maybe they already did and wisely decided to ignore us.

Or, just thought we were too primitive a species to bother with.

[Rex]

134. Or maybe we are so alien to them and them to us, that neither group even notices the other.

What if they arrived here from another dimension and still were in that dimension, along side us. Only acting and reacting to us when they decide to. If they even notice us at all.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

136. I think you may be right. Kind of like sponges studying ballerinas and vice-versa.

[DFW]

135. They're here:

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[ProfessorGAC]

141. That's Not My Picture!

I'm not arguing about whether they're here. But, you have the wrong photo.

[DFW]

151. Hold on, I have others:

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[hifiguy]

143. Given the luck the human race has had

with our own species (Chinghiz Khan, the Vandals, Viking marauders, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Republicans) we probably won't get discovered by an advanced, peaceful and intelligent species such as the Vulcans as was the case in "STNG: First Contact."

We will probably get found by a species like this guy's:



And they will find humans both tasty and easy to ranch on a large scale.

[Rex]

159. Ranch dressing, human flavor?

As long as they leave my lower horn alone.

[TheSarcastinator]

164. there is NO intelligent life in Universe

On this planet or anywhere else. I'm not being snide: what we call "intelligence" is nothing more than an evolutionary extension of fire building and tool making. It's an accident, a by-product, and causes many more problems than it solves.

[PatrickforO]

176. They've already found us. They are now waiting to see whether

we'll be able to start thinking in more than one dimension and eschew the whole zero-sum capitalist thing and begin to realize that we must value all life. This is our mission as a species and we are now in a race for our very survival. Will greed and neoliberal social Darwinism win or will we begin to make the changes that we must make to survive and thrive?

[Marrah_G]

178. I think we will find basic lifeforms in our solar system