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Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:03 AM

stop apologizing, white people on du

it's turning my stomach.

As an American am I going to apologize bec. the US drops bombs on Afghanis?
As a Jew am I going to apologize for Jews who kill Palestinian babies?
As a white person am I going to apologize for white assholes who burn Black churches?
as an American of European ancestry am I going to apologize to Native people for the genocide?
as a hetero am I going to apologize for the trans people - esp trans people of color - who are killed?
as an American am I going to apologize to the whole Earth for the Ann Coulters?

What the fuck good does that do?
except make me feel like I'm a "good white person"
can you say 'syncophant"?!

Shit if I apologize for all the things in the all world throughout time, people of my ethnic background did to others, I wouldn't have time to take a breath.

I'd much rather put my body where my mouth is:

join people who are protecting a mosque or a Black church.
join or create a demo protesting US policy of bombing Afghani civilians.
educate other people who look like me.
write letters to the newspaper protesting racist acts
Join Black Lives Matter.

Fuck there are a million things you can do - people who apologize just want to be let off the hook.
I don't want to be let off the hook.
I should be held responsible and accountable.
I will apologize that I haven't done enough, that my own actions are small and ineffective.
But I won't take responsibility for all the actions/words of people who look like me.

Shit if some male apologized to me for the war on women, or for rape.
I would say, "Don't apologize. Protect women when they go to Planned Parenthood"
"Create a program to stop men from raping."

The apologizing I see on du is making me sick.
Talk about hollow words.
talk about making yourself feel good because in reality you do NOTHING.

56 replies, 3930 views

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Arrow 56 replies Author Time Post
Reply stop apologizing, white people on du (Original post)
ellenrr Nov 2015 OP
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #1
ellenrr Nov 2015 #2
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #11
pintobean Nov 2015 #5
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #13
kcr Nov 2015 #14
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #15
kcr Nov 2015 #16
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #18
kcr Nov 2015 #19
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #20
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #34
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #39
JI7 Nov 2015 #55
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #3
ellenrr Nov 2015 #4
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #6
JustAnotherGen Nov 2015 #12
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #17
marble falls Nov 2015 #24
LuvNewcastle Nov 2015 #7
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2015 #8
deutsey Nov 2015 #9
annabanana Nov 2015 #51
Demit Nov 2015 #10
sammythecat Nov 2015 #56
rug Nov 2015 #21
demmiblue Nov 2015 #22
rjsquirrel Nov 2015 #23
ileus Nov 2015 #25
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2015 #26
Ghost in the Machine Nov 2015 #37
NonMetro Nov 2015 #27
sulphurdunn Nov 2015 #28
tularetom Nov 2015 #29
LineReply I
ryan_cats Nov 2015 #30
giftedgirl77 Nov 2015 #31
ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2015 #43
giftedgirl77 Nov 2015 #45
ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2015 #46
Lizzie Poppet Nov 2015 #32
ChiciB1 Nov 2015 #33
DustyJoe Nov 2015 #35
treestar Nov 2015 #36
Generic Other Nov 2015 #38
lumberjack_jeff Nov 2015 #40
LeftyMom Nov 2015 #41
pintobean Nov 2015 #48
jwirr Nov 2015 #42
Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #44
valerief Nov 2015 #47
Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #49
Iggo Nov 2015 #50
SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #52
RandySF Nov 2015 #53
betsuni Nov 2015 #54

Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:08 AM

1. To be honest, I'm scratching my head at your point...

 

And as to any need for it.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:11 AM

2. to be honest, you must scratch your head

at 100's of posts on du in which people express themself.

you must be going bald!!

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:28 AM

11. While you are correct about me scratching my head...

 

At posts on du, I'm doing ok in the hair dept. I really wasn't taking a shot at you. I just don't see the importance of a major part of your point.

I'm not going to take issue with anyone wanting to apologize it today's climate with respect to racial issues. I find recognition in that area is often a good way to start an honest conversation.

One of the first things the media does these days after a POC is shot is to try and find an unflattering image of said person. Note, this does not happen when a good young white person is shot. One reason is to make whites feel better over all about the injustice. It is about all whites, not just some. Granted, not all buy the bait. That still doesn't account for intention. Second, it as if they want the black community to apologize for the actions of a member of their community and to admit it's acceptable on face value. That is the apology whites are trying to force on POC, along with other reasons.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:17 AM

5. I scratch my head when I see people apologizing for me.

 

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Response to pintobean (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:32 AM

13. People speak for other people when they shouldn't every day.

 

Here on du and irl. It's such a common occurrence that I couldn't pick this issue and say I'm left scratching my head because someone spoke for more than themselves. It can truly be found all over the front page of du. Extremely common things don't seem to leave me scratching my head.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #13)


Response to kcr (Reply #14)


Response to NCTraveler (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:40 AM

16. Oops, I don't think I meant to reply to you

Sorry about that. I meant to reply to someone else. ETA yes, I meant the reply for pintobean, who I think I thought was the OP

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Response to kcr (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:48 AM

18. Thank you.

 

I self deleted my post. My hands aren't completely clean on this site as I have goaded people. But I spent damn near the whole day a couple of days ago fighting against claims of impropriety by Sanders. I have done the same with Clinton even more so. Kind of makes sense since she is who I'm supporting in the primaries. In some of those I do speak for others but always include myself. Speaking for others is something I'm trying to get better at when discussing groups.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:54 AM

19. Mine neither. And, I should know better than to try to post at 7:30 in the morning on Sunday



I just deleted mine too, because derp

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Response to kcr (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:57 AM

20. I hope you have risen to the same morning I have.

 

It's amazing outside. One of those days that reminds me why I love Florida.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 10:46 AM

34. The point APPEARS to be "don't talk, DO"

 

But the point also appears to have been put through a cuisinart a few times.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #34)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 11:38 AM

39. People underestimate the power of the spoken word. Nt

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #34)

Mon Nov 2, 2015, 12:43 AM

55. edit

i may be thinking of someone else

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:11 AM

3. Well, how nice for you.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:13 AM

4. what is this? a weak attempt at sarcasm?

sarcasm is the refuge of the weak-minded.

why don't you address the point?

do you see apologizing as a very effective political strategy?

Do you think unions got the strength they have (very little at the moment unfortunately) by apologizing to people?

"Oh, shopper, I am sorry my boycott of Walmart's inconveniences you"

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:17 AM

6. There's no need to address that many logical fallacies

It's a pretty large straw man though, nice job.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:32 AM

12. Well said

I'm still stuck on "Jews" as opposed to Israelis.

Last time I checked no one in my mom's paternal heritage has been running around dropping bombs on Palestinians. It just - it hasn't happened.

I'll say what many of our Jewish DUers won't say - because I've gotten enough pm's from friends and foes at DU alike thanking me for speaking up in writing.


I won't tolerate "the Jews" type language.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:45 AM

17. Yes, the OP hit a rich vein of...

interesting word choices. It seems early in the morning to be this done in by feelings, feelings that lead to careless and incorrect characterization of others.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 08:33 AM

24. "the" attached to any class of people makes me suspicious immediately.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:17 AM

7. About the only time apologies make a difference

to me is when I get one from someone who is close. Otherwise, I don't expect too much out of people. People often apologize for trivial things, which makes apologies seem trite.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:21 AM

8. Did I miss some weird OP?

I don't see 'white people' or anyone else spamming DU with 'apologies'. Where are you seeing them?

I never apologize for anything I didn't personally do. It's nonsensical.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:24 AM

9. There are so many these days, it's impossible to keep up n/t

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Response to deutsey (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:16 PM

51. lol. . . .n/t

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:24 AM

10. You apparently have never felt the effect of being apologized to sincerely.

 

When you see in someone's eyes, and hear in someone's voice, that they really do feel contrite, or that they regret what their actions have done to you, it can be quite mollifying, even healing.

What a shame that you think apologies are always hollow, and/or only intended to make the apologizer feel good. That's really cynical. In fact, there are many people who think apologizing makes them look weak. I think you're wrong.

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Response to Demit (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 2, 2015, 01:44 AM

56. If someone has done me wrong

I will readily accept a sincere (key word is sincere) apology from them. I think everyone should accept sincere contrition, but why would I want an apology from their friend, or son, employer, employee, fellow DU'er, or anyone else not guilty of any wrongdoing. That's just awkward, meaningless, and nonsensical.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 08:00 AM

21. Sorry, won't do that again.

 

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 08:11 AM

22. Unrec. n/t

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 08:29 AM

23. I feel an apology is owed

 

for this whitesplaining OP.

Privilege much?

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 09:09 AM

25. Don't worry I'm not apologizing for anything.

Mainly because I play the game of life fair and square, if there's nothing to apologize for I'm sure not going to make up a reason.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 09:22 AM

26. Although, come to think of it...

As an American am I going to apologize bec. the US drops bombs on Afghanis?


If you voted for the President under whom such is taking place, then you should.

I don't apologize for anything Bush did, because I voted for other people.

But I share in the guilt for helping elect President Obama, and empowering him to murder any number of brown people in foreign countries with his expanded drone murder program. And no, it doesn't make me feel any better to apologize for that, knowing that it makes no difference to those lives destroyed or their families. Can I do anything to stop him? No.

But I can vote for a new President to replace him who WON'T go out and kill foreigners simply to show how tough he is on 'terraists'.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 11:00 AM

37. "If you voted for the President under whom such is taking place, then you should." No, I shouldn't..

#1 - I didn't vote for him in the Primaries, and he wasn't even in my list of Top 3. I knew that he was a Corporatist from the beginning.

#2 - I'd cut my hand off before I'd vote for a Republican

#3 - Sitting home and NOT voting is NOT an option, even if you have to hold your nose to vote for the Democratic Nominee. Imagine how much worse off we would be with a republican President! Granted, President Obama *has* done a lot of good things while facing tremendous odds, but I don't like his approach of dealing with the repubs... always trying to appease them. He should have pulled a "GW", and just used signing statements for Bills he didn't like. "GW" used more signing statements than ALL previous Presidents *combined* when we held the Majority of both the House and Senate.

Politics is NOT a "spectator sport", you have to get involved. MANY of us didn't get ALL of the "Hope & Change" that we voted for, but at least we got *some*...

I won't apologize for ANYTHING that I had no direct, personal participation in, or anything that I have no control over.

Peace,

Ghost

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 09:51 AM

27. You're Right. Apologies For Things Others Have done A Waste Of Time.

It's also dishonest. Why would anyone, for instance, "apologize" for things that happened hundreds of years ago? Why should anyone feel guilty enough to apologize for things other people did? Why should anyone "assume" the guilt of a whole race of people when a "whole race of people" is never guilty of anything, anyway. It's dishonest, and it makes me wonder about the motives of those who do such things.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 10:09 AM

28. Some people never apologize for anything,

 

and others apologize for everything. Most people apologize when they feel it is appropriate. There really is no norm for it and little to argue about.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 10:17 AM

29. Nothing more insincere than a mealy mouthed apology for something you didn't do

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 10:18 AM

30. I

I get it, I'll recycle.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 10:26 AM

31. After the shit that got flung around here the last 48 hours

 

A lot more than apologies should be handed out.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #31)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:09 PM

43. What did I miss? nt

 

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #43)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:52 PM

45. This thread was very eye opening & jaw dropping.

 

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #45)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:26 PM

46. Yea, I'm having to stay away from the childishness in that forum. Kinda stupid to me to be...

 

...slashing each others throats considering one of those two candidates is likely to be our nominee and lots of DUers insist on soiling them and giving the republidiots ammo to use in the general.

Taking a dump (beggin' your pardon, ma'am) in a porta-potty at an outdoor concert in the Texas summer heat is more pleasant than hanging in GD-P for more than five minutes.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 10:31 AM

32. Precisely. Apologies are empty air. Actions aren't. (nt)

 

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 10:35 AM

33. I Will Only Make One Comment About Your Post...

Then decide TODAY I'm staying away from this topsy-turvy, tit-for-tat MESS here at DU!

I'm a WHITE female who IS a LIBERAL, who IS a BOOMER, who HAS worn my HEART on my sleeve for cause after cause after since the 70's! I've been "boots on the ground," I've marched, I've worked many elections, I've read book after book after book educating myself as best I could about this country called America. Years and years of being in the trenches, money spent thinking I was able to help what I feel ails us and yet HERE WE ARE once again facing what people faced way back in the 1890's when the Robber Barons like Jay Gould did everything in his power to STOP the SOCIALIST movement of The Knights of Labor!

And ALL the rest of those Robber Barons who made ALL the decisions for the under privileged masses way back then in their massive effort to RULE this country their way! BUT, give credit to those Americans who stood up strong and said "no you won't!" They made their own progress and were willing to stand up for what they believed. Hats off to them.

Other movements over so many years have come and gone, and you know what? I FEEL we may have learned very little, because today looks so much like it did way back then. ONLY worse because this country seems to believe MILITARY might is always the answer.

I could add so much to this post, right now but just don't "feel" like it! We are on the brink of yet another election... I think a serious decision must be made and I refuse to be fooled again. Go with the status quo again, Democrat or Republican, America DESERVES what it gets!

I AGREE WITH YOU ellenrr and if that makes you feel a little better today then I'm happy to say it!

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 10:53 AM

35. apologies

Why would anyone apologize for actions of others especially way in the past that they personally had no personal action in ?
If I personally perpetuate an event that requires an apology then I will apologize. My mere existance in a group in no way
requires I apologize for actions of the group if I did not participate. I am reminded of Olive Oils father depicted in the 'Popeye'
movie with Robin Williams. A perpetual victim whose every sentence included the words 'you owe me an apology', or 'they owe
me an apology'. If I did not personally aggrieve or harm a person, group or population in any way, I owe no apology.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 10:53 AM

36. True is sort up props up the idea of stereotypes

If we are responsible for the actions of people in our group, then people can be judged by group. That allows for the opposite.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 11:02 AM

38. I apologize for y'all all the time

But since I'm only half white, white people always say I'm not white enough to speak for them. It gets me off the hook every time.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 11:59 AM

40. If I've done something to annoy you - I'm sorry

 

If I AM something that annoys you - tough.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:07 PM

41. Hey guys, be aware that if you push back at the OP she's going to send you hideous abusive PMs.

Everyone needs a hobby, I guess.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #41)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:44 PM

48. Where have I seen that accusation before?

 

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:09 PM

42. Action does speak louder than words. However to acknowledge

our participation in a wrong is still necessary to bring about change.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:20 PM

44. Walking and chewing gum at the same time is possible.

One can apologize for the actions of others in the same power bloc while also working to mitigate the damage caused by same.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:35 PM

47. Reminds me of this bit of Anthony Jeselnik. "Don't forget about me today."

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 02:50 PM

49. Phew. I did something right today. nt

 

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:09 PM

50. And while you're at it, don't pray for me either.

Waste of fucking time.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:20 PM

52. I feel no need to apologize personally,

But I do recognize white privilege exists.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 09:03 PM

53. Kick

Another example of how unhinged DU has become.

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Response to ellenrr (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 09:10 PM

54. You can't tell me what to do, you're not my real mom.

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