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Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:57 PM

12 reasons it would be crazy not to vote for the Democratic Presidential nominee in Nov:

Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Obamacare/health care
Climate change
Black lives matter
Women’s rights,
including right to control their own bodies
LGBT rights
Voting and civil rights
Prison reform
Union rights
Immigration reform

Someone has already mentioned Supreme Court nominations should be on the list. Anything else?

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Reply 12 reasons it would be crazy not to vote for the Democratic Presidential nominee in Nov: (Original post)
pnwmom Nov 2015 OP
Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2015 #1
pnwmom Nov 2015 #2
world wide wally Nov 2015 #3
pampango Nov 2015 #4
Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #5
Bottoms_Up Nov 2015 #6
pnwmom Nov 2015 #8
Bottoms_Up Nov 2015 #10
0rganism Nov 2015 #7
ileus Nov 2015 #9
0rganism Nov 2015 #11
pnwmom Nov 2015 #13
ileus Nov 2015 #25
pnwmom Nov 2015 #30
KaryninMiami Nov 2015 #29
davidn3600 Nov 2015 #16
MBS Nov 2015 #12
jeff47 Nov 2015 #14
joeybee12 Nov 2015 #15
Martin Eden Nov 2015 #17
jeff47 Nov 2015 #18
pnwmom Nov 2015 #19
jeff47 Nov 2015 #20
pnwmom Nov 2015 #21
jeff47 Nov 2015 #22
pnwmom Nov 2015 #23
jeff47 Nov 2015 #24
Gothmog Nov 2015 #26
Android3.14 Nov 2015 #27
cantbeserious Nov 2015 #28
pnwmom Nov 2015 #31
hifiguy Nov 2015 #34
pnwmom Nov 2015 #35
hifiguy Nov 2015 #38
Romulox Nov 2015 #32
cantbeserious Nov 2015 #37
hifiguy Nov 2015 #33
Vinca Nov 2015 #36

Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:59 PM

1. No Supreme Court nominations? Or is that implied by some of the other items?

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Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:00 PM

2. Thanks for the addition! I knew there would be more .

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:01 PM

3. No "guaranteed" war

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:13 PM

4. I thought you were going to show a picture of the republican candidates.

Oh, and both parties are the same!

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:14 PM

5. Good list, all very important to voters, it will be left to them to respond.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:21 PM

6. Ultimately, SCOTS nomination is why I'm leaning Bernie in the elections...

 

Lets face it... the next President will likely choose 2-3 (or more!) Justices. Short of championing a new Constitutional Amendment, one of the longest lasting impact any president can leave on the course of the country is the SC Justices they seat. Now while Hillary or Bernie (or a toaster oven, for that matter) is going to be a far safer choice than neo-crazies to lead our nation... for me, I look at it and say to myself, "Do you want Hillary or Bernie choosing the core of Government branch that allegedly protects our freedoms?"

And at the end of the day, while neither candidates' history is impeccable, Bernie's history is simply better in almost every way when it comes to fighting for personal freedoms and not rolling over for corporate interests or pandering to the 1%. He was into taking the right stance on issues before the issue was popular... before some poll said the tide was turning. THAT'S who I want seating the next generation's SC Justices.

For me, the Supreme Court nominations are singularly enough of a reason to consider no other candidate.
The fact that he might get some good shit done while in office is just icing on the cake.

Edit: This is not to say I would or wouldn't be alright with HRC getting the nomination or to speak against her in any way. We've all got to go do our duty and vote for the lesser of two evils in the national election, if need be.

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Response to Bottoms_Up (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:40 PM

8. Bernie will be just as limited as Hillary based on the fact that any nominee

will need 60 votes in the Senate. That means any nominee will have to have some Rethug votes. Good luck on that, with a Bernie-style progressive.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:52 PM

10. I agree that Hillary would have easier time of getting her top choices through a red senate.

 

For whatever that's worth.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:30 PM

7. how about "single party Republican rule"?

that's some pretty scary shit right there. worse than seeing one of those gasbags win the presidency would be seeing their entire agenda get rubber-stamped by the vicious sacks of shit who run congress.

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:49 PM

9. We've neutered the repukes...

They're never going to effectively govern again.

Their ideas don't resonate and even when they do, we can shout them down into inaction. Other than the SC picks, there's not one item on that list they can do anything about....even with total control.

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Response to ileus (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:57 PM

11. you're certainly more optimistic than me!

some of my memories from the W era are still fairly fresh. call me bitter if you like.

i remember how W was going to lose the 2000 election to the much more qualified and coherent Al Gore.

i remember how W was going to be an ineffective placeholder after his appointment, unable to do all but the most mundane evil in his ill-gotten time as a single-term prez who skated in on a questionable SC ruling.

and then he fucked up 9/11, got us into 2 wars, took credit for any and all counterterrorism activities, convinced the electorate that their safety was entirely in his hands, and won a second term by having his surrogates shit all over the record of a certified war hero.

we underestimate these consummate ratfuckers at our own peril.

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Response to ileus (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:23 PM

13. You're deluding yourself. They could easily steal another election. They control

the governorships and the statehouses.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:00 AM

25. I didn't say they couldn't win...I said there's nothing they can do with their power.

We got the voices on the national level and can manipulate the media, and locally we can get on social media and get them fired or threaten until they withdraw any and all "ideas".

They can vote until they're blue in the face, but we will control the message.


But.....No republican will ever be president again. They don't have the votes to win on a national election anymore.






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Response to ileus (Reply #25)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:15 PM

30. They have a 50/50 chance or better due to gerrymandering

and their abuse of voting rights.

And we do NOT control the media. That's a crazy Rethug idea.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:38 AM

29. And the voting machines

Without a landslide turnout, as we had in both of the Obama elections, we will loose. Between rigged machines and massive disenfranchisement, they will cheat and steal their way to a win. That's why turnout, regardless of which Democratic candidate is on the ballot, is crucial!

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Response to ileus (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:44 PM

16. They are winning in the states and the Congress

 

The GOP has more power in the states and the Congress than they have ever had in over 65 years.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:59 PM

12. DEFINITELY add SCOTUS nominations

Whenever I wring my hands or hold my nose about the deficiencies of one Dem candidate or another (and each of them has weaknesses, as well as strengths), I just remind myself: SCOTUS, SCOTUS, SCOTUS.
There WILL be Supreme Court vacancies in the next 4 years, and it's absolutely essential that we have a Dem president to make those nominations. A Dem senate would also be very helpful to getting those nominations approved as well.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:28 PM

14. You should add free trade agreements to your list.

But that could be a bit problematic with the story you want to tell.

Also, not blowing up large swaths of the Middle East should be on your list, but again that would be problematic.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:30 PM

15. I can think of 16...

 

Each of the current Repukes running.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:48 PM

17. I wish that were the case

It would be true if we had a national popular vote, but instead we have the anachronistic Electoral College with most states using the "winner take all" system of allocating their electoral votes.

Unfortunately, the election will be decided in a relative handful of "swing" states where the candidates of both major parties have a chance.

I live in Illinois. If there is the remotest chance of my state swinging to the R candidate, I will definitely vote for the Democratic nominee even if it's Hillary Clinton.

Otherwise, I don't have to hold my nose.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:00 PM

18. Yeah, let's look at the record on those

Social Security

Repeatedly offered up by Democrats as part of a grand bargain. For example, chained CPI.

Medicare

Cut in our most recent "must give Republicans something" budget bill. Cutting provider payments does not help with the enormous increase in providers we need as boomers retire.

Medicaid
Obamacare/health care

You mean the things Democrats are hiding from in all of their campaigns? Their unwillingness to mention these programs are surely a sign they will be fought for.

Climate change

Yes, opening the eastern seaboard and the arctic to drilling will be very helpful at advancing climate change. Oh! You wanted to stop climate change. My bad.

Black lives matter

By my count, we've got 2 excessive force federal prosecutions in the last 8 years. I likely forgot some.

How about a bill that makes assault under color of law enforcement a federal crime? That way we the feds can get involved without having to show a civil rights violation. Would also be a mechanism to create the Federal standards that both O'Malley and Sanders have talked about.

Women’s rights,
including right to control their own bodies

You mean the subject we've spent the last 40 years handing over little bits and pieces to the Republicans? Moving the ban to 20 weeks is only 6 weeks, so no big deal, right?

LGBT rights

Our politicians have primarily sat on their ass and let the courts do the work. DOMA was ended by a court ruling, and then later repealed in a showy flourish. "Gay marriage" was left up to the courts.

Most of our politicians have shown extremely little bravery on this.

Voting and civil rights

Yeah, look at all those times the feds shut down voter ID laws!!

Prison reform

Uh...forgetting who helped put us in the place where we need prison reform?

Union rights

Repeals of "right-to-work" laws: 0 or 1 (I forget if we managed to succeed once)

Immigration reform

Who massively increased the rate of deportations to appease the Republicans in search of yet another grand bargain?

Someone has already mentioned Supreme Court nominations should be on the list.

Yeah, no way Democrats would help an ultra-conservative, serial abuser of women get on the SCOTUS!! After all, you just said we were the party about women's rights!

There's a reason a lot of people are no longer buying the story from our party. Shouting it louder will not change their mind. We need better Democrats or the trend of people throwing their hands in the air and giving up will continue.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:03 PM

19. We wouldn't have Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid if it were up to the Rethugs.

If it were up to them we wouldn't have LGBT rights and abortions would be illegal again.

You are delusional if you think there's no difference between the parties.

But I'm a woman, so I'll keep "shouting" -- that's what we women do, according to some of you men.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:09 PM

20. If we had the party that passed those, I would have no complaints.

But that party has been gone for 40 years now.

You are delusional if you think there's no difference between the parties.

Delusional is ignoring the last 40 years, instead substituting 75 years ago.

Oh, and I'll just ignore your sexist ad-hominem.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:11 PM

21. NO ONE in the current Democratic party has been pushing to end any of those programs.

But many Rethugs have.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:28 PM

22. Our party has been pushing for cuts in those programs as outlined above.

If we were still FDR's party, we would be doing far better. But we stopped being FDR's party and became Reagan's party when the Republicans wandered into insanity.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:46 PM

23. I don't support any cuts but that doesn't mean I can't see the vast gulf between

the Democrats and the Rethugs on this issue.


And the huge gulf between the Dems and Reagan on anything.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:49 PM

24. And if you were the only voter, that would be enough.

But you aren't. And you have to begin to understand why those that don't bother are not bothering if you want to fix it.

"Not at bad" works for you. Not them. They are disgusted because there is no "good". There is only "not as bad" and "bad".

We need to start giving them "good". Instead, we're poised to give them "not as bad", yet again.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:02 AM

26. The control of the SCOTUS for the next generation is also an important issue

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:07 AM

27. Then the DNC/DLC better start playing fair

 

If HRC goes into the GE, we will have handed the GOP and the 1% exactly what they want.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:33 AM

28. Riddle Me This - Why Does One Have To Forever Vote For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:16 PM

31. Because otherwise it's letting the worst team win without even putting up a fight.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #31)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:25 PM

34. The end result of which is that things continue getting worse

 

and worse, albeit just a wee bit more slowly.



I have had been forced to take bites out of that shit sandwich for a lifetime. No more.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #34)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 06:16 PM

35. Yeah, that was Ralph Nader's theory. Hit bottom and then things will get better.

What an idiotic idea. You'd think we'd have learned that by now.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #35)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 07:58 PM

38. Whatever.

 

My state is as reliably blue as the sky (gone repub once since 1956 and that was the Nixon landslide of 1972) and I intend to make damned sure I vote my conscience and not for the nominally lesser of two decided evils.

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:18 PM

32. Because that way the Corporations win regardless. Duh! nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #32)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 07:06 PM

37. Yes Agreed - What Would The World Come To Should - Honesty - Integrity - Sincerity - Prevail

eom

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:23 PM

33. Given the Electoral College

 

I think that depends entirely on your particular state.

A person in a solidly red state like Utah, or a solidly blue one like my own (My state has gone Repub in presidential elections once, and only once, since 1956, and that was the Nixon landslide of 1972) has the wonderful, delicious luxury of voting in line with his or her conscience and NOT voting for an objectionable candidate at the top of the ticket, secure in the knowledge that they will not play any part in swinging the election while still voting for downticket non-DINO candidates who have earned that vote.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 06:30 PM

36. I thought you were just going to list some of the candidates on the other side.

More than a handful are batsh*t crazy.

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