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Wow, this chart today: (Original Post) kpete Dec 2015 OP
Ma'am -- put down the statistics and back away. If you cooperate, no one gets hurt. Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #1
Scary Chart Gothmog Dec 2015 #2
Another chart showing why we need more guns to protect us from people that already have guns. -none Dec 2015 #3
there's never a good chart around when you need one. Javaman Dec 2015 #4
Hate to harp on this but every time I see numbers like the above, I think of it Jarqui Dec 2015 #5
Healthcare is definitely part of the issue. SmittynMo Dec 2015 #9
"Willfully allowing 600K deaths a year" is inaccurate Jarqui Dec 2015 #15
So, monicaangela Dec 2015 #12
Yes but we can fix the health care problem leftyladyfrommo Dec 2015 #6
We Buy Them Back - Good Price Yallow Dec 2015 #8
Canada has some very reasonable regulations . leftyladyfrommo Dec 2015 #10
1. quit selling them today. nt. Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #30
k&r DesertRat Dec 2015 #7
RW is absolutely homicidal n their worship of guns. lark Dec 2015 #11
K&R Thanks! Duval Dec 2015 #13
The real frustration Saviolo Dec 2015 #14
My comment to the old argument Curmudgeoness Dec 2015 #18
Are there statistics showing "good guys with guns" stopping crimes in public? Beartracks Dec 2015 #26
Sounds about right. Initech Dec 2015 #16
Yep but let's really do triage whatthehey Dec 2015 #17
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2015 #19
Yeesh. cwydro Dec 2015 #20
k&r Liberal_in_LA Dec 2015 #21
67% of those "gun deaths" are suicides. Kang Colby Dec 2015 #22
Japan also has a . . FairWinds Dec 2015 #24
After Australia introduced strict gun control laws their suicide rate went down. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2015 #25
So gun owners are more likly to shoot themselves in the head than stop any crimes from occuring. baldguy Dec 2015 #27
gunner logic Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #29
but prayers!! marym625 Dec 2015 #23
This Problem Is Officially Too Big To Fix! Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #28

-none

(1,884 posts)
3. Another chart showing why we need more guns to protect us from people that already have guns.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 10:28 AM
Dec 2015

Something about guns causing people to be safe. A bullet filled society obviously is a safe society or some such.

Javaman

(62,435 posts)
4. there's never a good chart around when you need one.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 10:41 AM
Dec 2015

couldn't resist.

I choose dark humor to get through the insanity of our gun obsessed society.

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
5. Hate to harp on this but every time I see numbers like the above, I think of it
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:04 AM
Dec 2015

and feel like I have to chime in to try to keep some things in perspective.

In the same time period above, between 2001 and 2013, approximately 600,000 Americans died because they didn't have health care. Roughly 1 in 1000 without health care die per year.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/
Roughly 33,000 more died in 2014 and 33,000 more will die in 2015. That's roughly the population of cities like Boston, Milwaukee, Portland or Las Vegas ... a lot of people, Dead!

Hillary's tax cuts do not fix all of this. They kick the can down the road while more people in the wealthiest nation on earth, die. Bernie's Medicare for All does address this problem.

We can spend trillions on wars because a few thousand died at the hands of terrorists. But we can't solve a problem that kills every year roughly ten times all those who died of terrorism between 2001 and 2013.

Some of those firearms deaths, if someone is going to blow their head off and can't find a gun, they'll use a rope. If someone wants to kill someone and can't find a gun, they'll find another weapon. But with those 600,000, if they had health care, they wouldn't have to die.

Please think about it and keep fighting.

SmittynMo

(3,544 posts)
9. Healthcare is definitely part of the issue.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:39 AM
Dec 2015

Our health care is a disaster. Trying to fix the ACA, as Hillary wants to do, is pointless and will take decades. And it still leaves 29M without insurance. IMHO, the ACA is not health insurance. It's catastrophic insurance, where many cannot afford the deductibles. Damn near everything is applied toward the deductible first, outside of annual wellness visits.

The ONLY fix is single payer. And only one person(candidate) is talking about it. The others wont touch it.

Willfully allowing 600K deaths a year in the richest country in the world, is totally UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

When in the hell will we ever learn?

Guess who I'm voting for? Enough is enough. I'm done with SOS politics.

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
15. "Willfully allowing 600K deaths a year" is inaccurate
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:46 PM
Dec 2015

Appreciate your post but that's not accurate.

600,000 have died because of a lack of healthcare between 2001 and 2013.

It's still a disgusting big number.

Because of the ACA, deaths from lack of health insurance dropped roughly 16,000 per year. It's roughly 33,000 dying per year because of a lack of healthcare with the ACA in place.

When the Republicans keep trying to kill Obamacare without a replacement, in effect, they're voting to kill about 16,000 poor Americans per year. That really upsets me because folks like Bernie and Alan Grayson have told them. But they don't care. A good poor American is a dead American in their eyes probably because they're less likely to vote for the Republicans (who would vote for stuff that can kill them).

This situation upsets and blows my mind and has for years. I'll never stop whining about it until it's corrected.

monicaangela

(1,508 posts)
12. So,
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:58 AM
Dec 2015

I suppose we need to get rid of Guns, Republicans, and Plutocrats. Guns, because they deliver the projectile that takes lives. Republicans because they continue to keep our laws so screwed up we can't regulate guns. Plutocrats because they are so greedy they find ways to capitalize on all of this suffering. This nation started off as a disaster, and apparently sense the populace is not allowed to learn from mistakes, it will ultimately end as a disaster.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,815 posts)
6. Yes but we can fix the health care problem
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:30 AM
Dec 2015

That's doable. We just need single payer system or National Health care like Canada.

But how on earth do we fix the gun problem? Even if we quit selling guns today there are still 300 million of them out on the streets and gazillions being sold on the black market.

 

Yallow

(1,926 posts)
8. We Buy Them Back - Good Price
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:35 AM
Dec 2015

5 years to turn them all in.

Nationwide.

For starters.

Only people who need to have them are exempt. Alaska, and rural, who have purchased hunting licenses for 5 years, or own a farm, can keep theirs.

Fear is not a good enough reason to keep a firearm.

lark

(22,993 posts)
11. RW is absolutely homicidal n their worship of guns.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:44 AM
Dec 2015

If this were a group that did this, we'd so be at war with them. Obviously having guns doesn't stop mass killings, there've been 2 mass murders on base where there are tons of weapons. Yet, stupid ass LIndsey Graham said the answer is to have everyone carrying guns. How stupid is that. Every day people are killing injured accidenetally with guns. The more guns, the more deaths and injuries. The answer is the opposite of what they are saying. Reduce gun ownership, don't let terrorists or people with mental issues get guns, 100% backgroun checks, no cop killing guns, no semi-automatics, can only buy 1 gun per year. This would stop the mass carnage, but congress lacks the guts. The America public is behind most of these, like 90% favor background checks for all gun sales, no cop killing bullets or semi-automatics, yet Congress won't pass anything.

Why is this? Guns are profitable and gun makers pay NRA a ton of money to stop any restrictions. Where's the fear machine on this? Media lies to protect Repugs and won't report the truth that a lot of these are caused by RW lies because they want the Repugs to take charge again. War, killing = profits to them and that's all that matters. They aren't pro-life, they are pro-profit and power. They truly don't give a damn about the babies or they'd do more to protect the live ones from being killed by guns.,

Saviolo

(3,268 posts)
14. The real frustration
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:36 PM
Dec 2015

If you show a chart like that to a RWNJ or a 2nd A worshipper, you'll get the following banal repetitive questions:

How much of that is black on black violence?
How much of that is suicide?
How much of that is in self-defence?
How much of that took place in "gun free zones?"
How much more would there be if only bad guys had guns?

Etc... etc... etc...

Information can't pierce their incredibly dense shell of bullshit. They're more interested in protecting the talking points than trying to save lives from gun violence.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
18. My comment to the old argument
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:35 PM
Dec 2015

about "black on black" crime is that since most people who kill someone will kill someone that they know. So this is not much of an argument except to show bigotry. Ask them how much of it is "white on white", because it works the same way...people that they know.

Beartracks

(12,761 posts)
26. Are there statistics showing "good guys with guns" stopping crimes in public?
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 07:09 AM
Dec 2015

Does that ever even really happen that often? I mean, often enough to make "good guys with guns" a valid argument for increasing safety and security for society at large?



The local news-talk FOX-affiliate radio always mentions when some homeowner thwarts a single robbery at his house with a firearm, but it's not like even that happens every day. Mass shootings, on the other hand -- they happen almost every day.

=======================

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
17. Yep but let's really do triage
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:44 PM
Dec 2015

Gun violence a major problem? Sure - would be nuts to gainsay.

But if we include smoking, we'd have a line that would stretch about 13 times further. And all the arguments against guns apply to cigarettes. They kill when used as designed. They kill both by self-choice and innocent people who don't choose (ETS deaths are about 6-7 times gun homicides and 80% higher than all gun deaths combined). They have far less chance of being used beneficially (to my knowledge, essentially zero chance; guns can at least provide cheap meat and self defense as well as mayhem). The argument that they are not designed to kill has been shown to be false for decades - they are intentionally designed to be addictive and contain deadly ingredients. About half as many people smoke as have guns and yet 13 times as many die due to them, making smoking 20-odd times more dangerous. Any claim to their recreational value should be treated far more dismissively than that for guns, as there are thriving IDPA and similar competitive shooting leagues and no smoking equivalents.

So do lives matter or not?

 

Kang Colby

(1,941 posts)
22. 67% of those "gun deaths" are suicides.
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 12:47 AM
Dec 2015

Japan, which essentially bans gun ownership has a much higher suicide rate. Your chart is misleading, par for the course for gun control advocates.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
24. Japan also has a . .
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 04:57 AM
Dec 2015

life expectancy FIVE YEARS more than the US.

Do you think gun violence and the related societal stress might have something to do with that? (and diet too)

Your point is nonsensical, par for the course of gun worshipers.

Veterans For Peace

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
25. After Australia introduced strict gun control laws their suicide rate went down.
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 05:00 AM
Dec 2015

The suicide-by-gun rate went down 65%; the non-firearm suicide rate did not go up by anything like a comparable amount. See here: http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback_Panel.pdf

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
27. So gun owners are more likly to shoot themselves in the head than stop any crimes from occuring.
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 07:21 AM
Dec 2015

Well, that's one way to solve the problem...

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