If there's one thing that will drive me away from living in this country, it's the pathological

[Fast Walker 52]

obsession over guns. I'm so very sick of this debate.

If we can't enact some reasonable gun laws in the next few years, I'm seriously going to look to move.

I say this as someone who has resisted the move away sentiment, and have really wanted to work within the system. But this argument frustrates me like no other.

[whathehell]

1. My spouse and I feel the same way.

We're close to retirement, and we're sick of this shit...When you can't even go to an office party or

a movie theater without looking over your shoulder, it's time to go.

[lancer78]

31. I do it

All the time. Fear is the most powerfull weapon of the terrorists

[whathehell]

39. You do what?

[G_j]

2. Agreed..

insanity, and it just gets worse

[merrily]

3. I've been daydreaming about re-locating to a country whose foreign policies haven't resulted in so

many people from other nations being eager to annihilate me and mine.

[meaculpa2011]

4. Where...

will you move?

Every time I consider a move the question of "where" puts those thoughts to rest.

[whathehell]

5. Are you challenging the idea or just looking for places to move?

Just wondering.

[meaculpa2011]

7. We have looked into relocating...

and we have traveled extensively throughout the world.

I have family in Italy. Very nice to visit but I would not want to live there, or anywhere in Europe. Too crowded. I'm a lifelong New Yorker, but it's nowhere near as crowded as small towns in Italy. My cousins live a beautiful town of 20,000 people near the Adriatic and they live one on top of the other. I lived in London many years ago. Much more crowded than Manhattan.

I love Latin America, but if you're concerned about gun violence it's not for you. I don't want to live in a gated fortress for safety's sake.

Costa Rica is a popular destination for American retirees. The homicide rate is off the charts.

We're looking to escape the crowds of NYC, but when we weigh the pros and cons the advantages win out.

[whathehell]

11. Your biggest misgiving seems to be "crowds"...Mine is random violence,

insane gun laws, and wide open access to guns. To each his own.

BTW, when it comes to Costa Rica (a country that, unlike our own, is marked as a very LOW risk for terrorist violence)

you may want to view the homicide rate in light of certain facts like these:

The murder rate for the capital city of San Jose, Costa Rica in 2005 was 9.2 - the murder rate in the US capital Washington DC at 35.40 is nearly four times higher than San Jose, Costa Rica...

[meaculpa2011]

12. Any major decision is based on a variety...

of criteria. I wouldn't relocate to D.C. either.

The homicide rate in NYC this year is 4 per 100,000 and it's 10 in Costa Rica. Twenty five years ago the rate in NYC was 30.

The chance of random violence here is still fairly remote, and I'm speaking as someone who had a gun stuck in my ribs on a bright sunny afternoon on the streets of NY. Did I care whether the young gentleman with the revolver was on a terrorist watch list?

[whathehell]

40. I am a 3 time victim of crime, one violent

and 2 home invasion- near violent. I can assure you that I'm as familiar with it as you.

I am more concerned with domestic mass shootings as I am with terror strikes. My decision to leave, btw, should I make it, would be based as much on a principaled anger as on personal fear.

[EX500rider]

47. I love Costa Rica, lived there 5 years...

....but the homicide is over 2 times worse then the US rate:

US 3.8 per 100,000
CR 8.5 per 100,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[whathehell]

55. Is that why you left?

[EX500rider]

56. No, the low level crime of theft was much more bothersome...

....and the low level corruption amoung local police hitting you up for bribes.

[whathehell]

58. So most of the crime was "low level" and non-violent

Works for me.

[treestar]

10. American assume it will be easy

but it may not be, as they may well not be eligible. Unless they have a lot of money. There are some countries with retirement visas. If you're not going to work there, but live there and spend your money, they are OK with that!

[Fast Walker 52]

16. right now, Australia or England seem attractive

but not sure how realistic it is.

Maybe for retirement, which is a ways away

[meaculpa2011]

18. I lived in London many years ago...

and it was horrendously expensive, even compared with NY. I don't know how it is now, but I don't imagine it's much better.

Life in the countryside was less hectic, but still very expensive.

I was in Cairns, Australia for a bit and it was D-U-L-L. I may have to spend a few months there on business ext year and I don't look forward to it. Melbourne is wall-to-wall sprawl.

It's a big, beautiful world with plenty of great places to live.

[Squinch]

20. Cairns is dull? You have to be kidding!

[meaculpa2011]

37. I don't dive, I don't bungee jump and I don't raise sheep. n/t

[librechik]

46. Australia needs skilled workers in a big way--in every category

They need to build more housing and everything need an update. It takes a year to get a plumber, there aren't enough. Technical skills are much desired.

My son lives in Australia and is trying to get a citizenship going--He has had many more opportunities in his field (programming) there than here at home.

[jeff47]

51. If it's for retirement, you will need A LOT of money.

They don't just let anyone in. Massively oversimplified, they have to get something out of you moving there.

If you're young, they'll get decades of taxes.
If you're rich, they'll get lots of taxes in a short time.
If you've got someone unique or otherwise in-demand skills, they'll benefit from you bringing those skills.

You'll need to research the immigration programs for each country you're considering.

[RKP5637]

6. Yep, same here! In fact, I'm fed up with hearing about guns and religion. For both, for some,

it's an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder IMO. If I had the means, I would be looking for other places to live. The 2016 elections will be very revealing. If this country swings full republican IMO it's going to be a dreadful place to live. Yep, there are far worse places, but this country could be doing far better.

[ryan_cats]

8. Much

Much as I think Mother Theresa didn't really want to end poverty, I don't think you really want to end gun ownership.
Else how would you maintain a pretense at a virtue you have not earned?

If gun ownership ended tomorrow, would you feel fulfilled and self actualized, of course not, you need a cause and any cause will do, would it not?

[Squinch]

22. Stupid post of the day award goes to yours.

[laundry_queen]

54. That one may go up for the week or month award at least. nt

[Squinch]

57. The sad thing is his friends are running around, and they all read the same talking points.

So I hate to commit, even though I can't imagine stupider. But I am always amazed by some of our DU brethren.

[Fast Walker 52]

23. hmmm, I never said anything about ending gun ownership

I simply hate that we can't even enact simple measures like UBC, and so forth.

I hate that people in this country stock up on guns and ammo whenever there is a mass shooting. I hate the fucking paranoia that gun ownership seem to bring in this country.

[CTyankee]

9. Not much I can do about the guns here now, but one thing I can do is NOT put up with

DUers who presumbably with a straight face defend their guns against sensible restrictions and swearing they are progressive Democrats.

I won't let that go easily, I will tell you...anyone who says that to me will get "I don't believe you" from me. And I mean it.

[Nitram]

13. I've lived all over the world and I chose to come back to the US to live (Charlottesville Virginia).

I can assure you, you will have to put up with things you don't like wherever you go. Right wingers are just as obnoxious in every country I've ever been to. Endemic corruption is worse than gun violence, in my experience, and it will affect you daily if you live in countries where corruption is part of the system. Every Latin American nation has gun issues, regardless of what laws are on the books. Remember, there is an enormous difference between living in a country and just visiting on vacation. I'd suggest moving to a community in the US where the record of gun violence is very low. Where I live, ownership of guns is high, but there is a very, very low incidence of gun violence.

[Fast Walker 52]

14. thanks... yeah, still annoying as hell though

[Fast Walker 52]

15. Americans stock up on guns and ammo after latest shooting- yeehaw!

http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/news/nation_world&id=360791811

[olddots]

17. America is in it's adolescence

hopedully it will grow up but in the meantime there are countries that have become more grown up because they decided to still value education above materialism .

[Lizzie Poppet]

19. Are you considering this because you feel endangered...

...or because you find it makes the atmosphere of the nation intolerable? If the latter, then I understand (although I don't agree). Living somewhere that just feels wrong does nothing good for a person.

If the former, however, you might want to consider that your actual probability of being shot is really, really low (unless you're making some really bad life decisions). Violent crime has been dropping steadily for decades. Things are still messed up,...but despite media inundation with "fear, fear, FEAR 25/7," they're getting better.

[Fast Walker 52]

24. Thanks... it's more the latter

I live in a safe area and don't feel threatened. But yeah, it's really the political atmosphere.

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. I understand.

It's crossed my mind more than once...but I'm not sure where to go. =/

[Skittles]

21. I'd never let gun humping cowards run me from my own country

stay and fight the bastards

[BeyondGeography]

26. They think the right to their pathetic hobby ranks with a woman's right to choose or gay rights

It would be funny if it weren't so fucked up and destructive.

[mnhtnbb]

27. We made the decision to find an 'escape' after Bushie boy took the election in 2004.

Considered a lot of places, but we were nearing retirement. Canada was out for that reason
and so were most European countries (too expensive and no family connections). We looked
seriously at Belize and ended up buying in to a development in Panama (Bocas del Toro area) being
built by Americans. Talk about disaster. The thing turned into a financial nightmare--but eventually
the investors got together to salvage the place. We were very lucky--after going through all
the paperwork and getting our permanent resident visas--to eventually get our money back,
but we had to wait several years. The development has been up and running now for several
years and is beautiful. Bocas has gotten a lot of attention in the last few years.

Last summer--after the Charleston shootings--I told my husband I wanted to go take another
look at Bonaire (off the coast of Venezuela). We have friends who've had a place there for
almost 20 years. Several years ago the relationship between Bonaire and The Netherlands changed,
and it's now possible for Americans to become full time residents. I would move there in a heartbeat
but my husband has vetoed the idea. He doesn't want to give up the features of living in a classic
university town.

We have a friend who moved to Lyon, France two years ago to marry the love of his life. He was
from Kansas City area and had gone to Lyon for a summer ed class to gain credits towards his
Master's in French (he's a teacher) and met his husband to be. After they got married, he was hired as an elementary school
teacher at an International School in Lyon. He's very, very happy.

I have another friend from college who has lived her entire adult life abroad. She and her husband
are teachers. They lived in Japan for many, many years, then went to Georgia (former Soviet Union)
and two years ago relocated to Cairo. They are approaching retirement--but I don't know where
they will retire. I'd be surprised if they come back to the US.

I really think the country is on the brink of what could become disastrous violence. Racism, hatred of immigrants and
Muslims, misogyny, fear and bigotry towards gays...it just feels like the whole thing could blow at any time. It scares
the crap out of me to think there are 360 million--give or take a few--guns in this country and millions of them are in
the hands of people who have no business owning firearms.

The other thing I've considered is that living in Hawaii might not be too bad, either. Still the US but very isolated.

[951-Riverside]

28. Absolutely

I lived many years of my life in a neighborhood where you would often hear gunshots, it is not fun and it is no way to live.

I'll be honest I don't like living in a country where at any moment anyone could blow me away for no reason. There are so many guns in the country that no one is safe anywhere, that is no way to live!

[former9thward]

29. Where are you going to move?

Do you really think other countries just let you permanently move there? You have to have a lot of money or skills they want. Good luck.

[951-Riverside]

30. I'd say figure it out and move before everybody else has the same idea

Do you really think other countries just let you permanently move there?

Yes, why wouldn't they?

Most countries (except for North Korea and the US) don't wall off their country and shun people from immigrating.

[former9thward]

32. Dream world.

Almost ever country does not want other people unless they have big money or skills. Try to move to our neighbor to the north and see what happens.

[951-Riverside]

34. American Exceptionalism at its finest. n/t

[whathehell]

41. You need skills to live here, unless you want to live

on welfare or minmum wage, so what's the difference?

[former9thward]

42. The difference is that other countries won't let you live there.

The U.S. will.

[whathehell]

43. You mean the U.S. will let you live here on minimum wage or welfare

Well, since I actually work and not for minimum.wage, that doesn't concern me much.

[former9thward]

44. Most people are not on the minimum wage or welfare.

I guess they didn't get your meme.

[whathehell]

45. So.what are you talking about regarding the need for skills to move to other countries ?

[former9thward]

48. Why is this so hard to grasp?

Other countries don't let Americans in for permanent stay unless they have a lot of money or have skills the country can use.

[whathehell]

49. LOL..There's nothing to "grasp".

You're making an assertion with nothing to back it up. Haven't you yet "grasped" that this doesn't work well at DU?

[former9thward]

50. What?

You want me to list the immigration requirements of every country in the world? Hey, you think it is so easy to emigrate, go for it. No one is stopping you....

[whathehell]

53. Never mind, loll

I doubt you know the immigration requirements for even one other country let alone all of them.

[jeff47]

52. The other country has to get something out of you moving there.

If you're young, they'll get decades of taxes.
If you're rich, they'll get taxes in a much shorter timeframe.
If you have special skills (ex, famous scientist) they'll get the benefit of those skills.

Most "first world" countries won't take everyone who applies. After all, they have things like universal healthcare, so you retiring to Canada is going to cost Canada a lot of money, with you not paying them much money.

You need to research the immigration policies of any country you are considering.

[PasadenaTrudy]

33. I'd like to leave the L.A. area

It feels like a pressure cooker here, it's so crowded. My goal is to live in Santa Fe, NM.

[Laffy Kat]

35. Me too.

Plus my sister, her husband; my two boys, we all want to leave.

[Arugula Latte]

36. Yep. If it were easy to emigrate we'd be gone.

But there are family & financial considerations and restrictions...I want to tell my kids to do their best to get the hell out.

[a la izquierda]

38. You'll eventually find me in the jungles

of Mexico.
It's my area of research, I'm learning a Mayan dialect for work, and it will be more fulfilling than my current situation.