Gallup poll: after Trump attacks Muslims, his support among Democrats INCREASES

[pnwmom]

This is frightening.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-anti-muslim-rhetoric-winning-220900448.html

A new Gallup poll shows that Trump’s image among all Americans has trended up, not down, after he touched off an international uproar with his comments Dec. 7 proposing to bar all Muslims other than U.S. citizens from entering the country.

SNIP

Among Republicans and GOP-leaning independents, support for Trump does appear to have taken a slight hit, which suggests that some within the party were troubled by his intemperate remarks. But Democrats actually appear slightly more positive about the GOP frontrunner.

Trump’s net favorability rating among Republicans and GOP-leaning independents edged down by seven percentage, according to Gallup. At the same time his net favorable rating rose by 10 points among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents.

In the poll, Gallup interviewed 1,927 people Nov. 23 through Dec. 7 and 1,250 adults Dec. 8 through 16.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Some Democrats are bigots, too.

[emulatorloo]

2. Sad, but true.

[closeupready]

6. If DU is a reliable indicator, yes.

Most people on DU aren't, I think, just to be clear. But just as you say some Democrats are bigots, I think there are "some" here on DU - some who are sadly members of longstanding, men, women, no real boundaries - who definitely are bigoted, and it shows. (The low post count bigots who are loud and angry from the get-go, are those whom I dismiss as malicious intruders, so I don't mean them, since they obviously aren't liberals or even Democrats. Maybe the George Wallace or Robert Byrd type?)

But hey, nobody's perfect, I'm not going to run around pointing fingers, but yeah, the general point is a valid one.

[DrDan]

48. we definitely have some here who are bigoted relative to age and regions

[etherealtruth]

47. A very sad truth n/t

[still_one]

3. and the media critisizes Hillary for being to "harsh" to the Donald on his hate speech.

[spanone]

4. with the exposure the media is giving this clown, he'll be president before the election

the media loves the fascist

[tavernier]

7. On a silver platter!

Doesn't matter which network I turn to, trump is on it 24/7. If he wins it will be because the media didn't allow anyone else's face to be shown during the entire process.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. there is a reason why I have taken Trump VERY SERIOIUSLY from word go

I expect him to get the nomination. Today MSNBC joined me.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

8. nadin, did you see my post earlier?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251934761

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Yup and it is brilliant analysis

but part of this is what Trump is activating.

[davidn3600]

9. Well according to most of the so-called experts on this forum....

....Hillary has the election in the bag. And the GOP is falling apart.

So we have nothing to worry about!

[pnwmom]

10. The vast majority on this board are Bernie supporters and they think he'll win.

So I don't know what you're talking about.

[Fumesucker]

33. Yeah but BernieBros are amateurs, clickety clickety don't you know

The real pros don't need to engage in that sort of foolishness.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I do not play those stupid games people play here

I know what Trump is activating... and I know exactly what he is doing. And to be honest, it should scare anybody with brain cells to rub.

Most political analysts in the US have not studied either Hitler's or Stalin's rise to power. Early on, El Duce came to mind by the way... and the mannerisms are quite mussolini like. These days, it is a nice combo of Adolph and my friend Franco. Given that apparently Trump at the very least studied Hitler's speeches...

the 4th grade linguistic prowess is also quite on purpose and hits how media produces material. It is quite honestly extremely effective.

As I said, people should start taking him quite seriously.

[Ichingcarpenter]

38. I said very early he's a great showman as his TV show displayed

and knows how to play the audience and the media. I called him out early on his fascists demigod appeal to this nation before the pundits caught on.

My imaginary debate...... Trump, Hillary and Sanders

Trump pushes his republican opponents' buttons and does it very well
It would be interesting to see how our democrats handled him.

yeah......... I take him seriously but Cruz frightens me more but I don't see him as much of a threat than Trump.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. We have run a few pieces at RSD on this theme

and finally we came out and said it. Trump is a fascist.

As to Cruz scaring you more... I give trump good odds of winning the nomination and have for over two months. The Clinton Campaign has hinted that they would rather run against Trump... this is quite frankly a careful what you wish for. The fact that people from all political stripes are going YEAH GIVE ME SOME TRUMP... I am not ready to say it yet, but he might have a chance in the general as well. I need a little more data to go there.

Oh yeah, I will walk though glass, hell fire, and ice to vote against him... but Hitler won legally. Notice, this is not necessarily voting for the person running against, him, it will truly be a vote against Trump. The dems could run a desk lamp at that point, desk lamp get my vote.

But those appellations about low energy, and stupid, and how he is das fuehrer, are classic from both Mussolini and Hitler playbook. As I said, he is starting to pepper in some Franco in the mix. And yes, he will go after the media and if people believe we do not have a free media now, just wait.

[busterbrown]

18. So you are saying?

Bernie will save the day?

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Nah, think the divide is college education

and blue collar vs white collar.

It is the same reason college educated Republicans hate Trump's guts. His base is exactly the blue collar, scared, white voters who see the end of a world coming and quite frankly they are not happy; and yes, some are indeed bigots. (After all Trump has gotten the endorsement of the KKK and those fine folks at a site that cannot and should not be mentioned in polite company)

[pnwmom]

17. Doubtful, since many of the same people are NRA nuts. n/t

[loyalsister]

19. There are plenty of people who are not NRA nuts

but are still extremely hawkish. One is running for the Democratic nomination. Regime change! WAR WAR WAR!- As long as someone else does the grunt work.

[pnwmom]

21. She is definitely not "extremely hawkish" except to the extreme pacifists. She and Kerry and Biden

all voted to allow Bush to support the UN resolutions -- not to go into Iraq even though he never found WMD's. And Sen. Kennedy said they had all been deceived by false information given to them by the Bush administration -- except for members of the Armed Services Committee (like Kennedy) who knew the information was false because of their access to classified reports, but weren't allowed to share their knowledge.

[loyalsister]

22. If she really isn't hawkish

I wonder why she's the one who constantly invokes war and terrorism and her experience that informs her ideas about regime change, etc. Remember the 3 am phone call ad? Was she alluding to an airplane crash or something urgently national security related?

I would have some respect for her if she acted like she learned some lessons from the havok we wreaked by going into Iraq, but she wants to blame Obama for ISIS. No. It's on her and every single senator who supported the IWR.

[840high]

24. ...^ that

[pnwmom]

25. She isn't blaming Obama for ISIS. She regrets her decision to vote for the IWR -- even though Bush

would have gone in regardless -- and she recognizes that Iraq's breakup was the cause of the power vacuum that led to ISIS.

[loyalsister]

31. Really?

She wanted to arm the Syrian rebels. She mentions it pretty frequently suggesting that if we had done what she recommended, there would be no ISIS.

[pnwmom]

35. Bernie isn't against arming the Syrian rebels. He says we should help

Muslims, whose boots will be on the ground, DESTROY ISIS.

He also had the extremely misguided idea of including Iranians among those boots -- which Hillary correctly pointed out would be pouring gasoline on the fire. The Iranians are longtime enemies of the Syrians. No one familiar with the history of the region would EVER advocate that.

[Renew Deal]

51. That is by far the craziest thing Sanders has said.

Very dangerous to call for sectarian war in the Middle East.

[Jesus Malverde]

52. Her record can be summed up in one word.

Libya.... a disaster of epic perportions.

[closeupready]

69. Yes. Thank you.

[Renew Deal]

50. You know Sanders supported regime change in Libya and wants the Middle East to fight their war

Sanders is calling for a sectarian war fought in the Middle East by the "people in the region". That's exactly what you described.

You should find out what your candidate supports.

[Yorktown]

15. Hillary will win, but Trump is mining a real anxiety over Islam

Yes, demagogues like Trump are potentially dangerous.

But so is the pretense that organizations like CAIR are poor, innocent victims of hate speech.

Grammatically relevant islamophobia, concern over Islam, is legitimate.

[loyalsister]

20. Hillary took a page out of his book during Saturday's debate

She didn't say local bar or restaurant. She specifically said mosque and alluded to the clock incident by mentioning teachers.

"well, if we can't know what someone is planning, we are going to have to rely on the neighbor or, you know, the member of the mosque or the teacher, somebody to see something."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/19/3rd-democratic-debate-transcript-annotated-who-said-what-and-what-it-meant/

[pnwmom]

23. Give me a break. She said teacher because we'd JUST had a fake bomb threat,

purportedly coming from "jihadists," involving major school districts in New York and California.

[Yorktown]

27. Why do you put "jihadists" in quotation marks?

Does it imply such people do not exist?

[pnwmom]

29. Because the bomb threat was FAKE!!!

There were no "jihadists" actually about to bomb schools in NY and CA.

[Yorktown]

43. And?

If there's a terror alert about RW fundamentalists,

I wouldn't put quotation marks to RW fundamentalists either.

Or to RW Christian fundamentalists.

[pnwmom]

44. You wouldn't, I would. Big deal. n/t

[loyalsister]

32. Riiiight

And the fact that it was a teacher who calling the police about a kid with a clock doesn't resemble her remark at all. Or it's just a coincidence because of the other incident.

I didn't used to think so, but she has convinced me that she's as much of a bigot as Trump or any of his followers. She proved it time and again in 2008, shows complete disregard for the people involved with Black Lives Matter, and now she's stoking in Islamaphobia.

[pnwmom]

34. The incident with the fake school bomb threats in NY and CA involved 700,000 in CA alone,

and had happened FOUR DAYS before the debate.

It is far more likely that was on her busy mind than a story about a single kid in Texas whose clock was mis-identified as a bomb THREE MONTHS AGO.

Get real.

[loyalsister]

37. If she is so vacuous that she forgot

She is either culturally incompetent considers it negligable, or just doesn't care about the hatred she enables pretty regularly. Proud to be an enemy of "the Iranians" who but Islamaphobic bigots would not recognize the problem with such a statement.

[pnwmom]

41. 700,000 thousand SCHOOL KIDS in Los Angeles had just been threatened

by so-called jihadists on December 15th. That was the obvious reason for her to mention TEACHERS in her statement on the 19th.

And that is something that obviously slipped your mind completely when you jumped all the way back in time to an isolated incident three months earlier, forgetting about what had just happened days before.

For Hillary, her statement is highly unlikely to be connected to the incident with a single boy three months earlier -- no matter how much you insist it must be.

It was just a very reasonable and calm statement in light of what had happened on December 15. Involving schools. And teachers. And hundreds of thousands of threatened kids.

She is ANYTHING BUT AN ISLAMAPHOBE.

[burrowowl]

16. Say WHAT!!!!

OMG!

[RandySF]

26. I heard an NPR report about some Sanders supporters who agreed with him.

[KingCharlemagne]

55. that would be national pentagon radio, correct? - nt

[Kalidurga]

28. What do you expect there are a lot of people who believe in the young earth myth

4% believe lizard people are running our government. A brain surgeon says grain was stored in pyramids. And when you tell 2Aers that 30,000 people die from gun violence they say nuh uh 20,000 of those people were suicides.

So, this is not even a little of a shock to me. I have seen my fair share of conservative democrats, neocons, and people who love the status quo.

[frizzled]

30. When the Left don't want to call Islam out for being regressive and violent, what do you expect?

There is some truth to the rightwing criticism that leftwingers treat Muslims with kid gloves.

If these people were Christian we'd have no trouble saying their treatment of women and religious fundamentalism wasn't acceptable in the modern world.

Principled atheists and anti-theists are in a difficult bind, when the Left seems to coddle Islam and the Right hates it for all the wrong reasons.

[cpwm17]

39. So it is the liberals' and the Muslims' fault for Trump's popularity

and not American bigots and war-mongers? Yea, I'm sure Americans are really so concerned about woman in the Muslim world, such that it should be a major concern in US elections.

Who are the violent ones? US foreign policy proves who most supports violence in this world, and it is reflected in who values human life the least:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/157067/views-violence.aspx

While the majority of world citizens agree that military attacks targeting civilians are never justified, a decade after 9/11, there is a wide range in the level of support for this view. A clear majority in Asia and MENA (Middle East and North Africa) find military attacks against civilians unacceptable. This is not surprising considering the acute conflicts raging in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and other parts of the Middle East.

In contrast, regionally, residents of the U.S. and Canada are most likely to say that military attacks against civilians are sometimes justified. Americans are the most likely population in the world (49%) to believe military attacks targeting civilians is sometimes justified, followed by residents of Haiti and Israel (43%).

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[frizzled]

40. You mean the same liberals who love to bomb and drone the Muslim world?

I'm not sure what the distinction is between liberals and warmongers.

Both parties have had disastrous interventionist policies, which placed America at risk of terrorism. A total lack of willingness to confront the roots of that foreign policy have led to an escalating cycle of violence between America and the Muslim world. Bombing on one side, stochastic terrorism events on the other.

Let me preface the next remark by saying I don't support Trump or religious discrimination in any way. But this is the logic of his supporters.

What Trump advocates makes a kind of brutal sense. Muslims who went through immigration have attacked the United States. If Muslims had been banned from entering the country, the 9/11 attacks would not have happened. The San Bernadino attack would not have happened. The Boston Marathon attack would not have happened.

Yes, there would be other shootings. Of course almost all Muslims are peaceful, and most shootings are not done by Muslims. Nonetheless, Americans are scared of attacks by Muslims, and so the brutal logic follows. If you don't want attacks by Muslim people, don't let them into the country.

Given the political climate and inability to discuss root causes this is inevitable. And the Democrats are unable to talk about any of it at all. What Trump and the Republicans propose by discriminating against Muslims is appalling, ugly - but it is a solution. When Obama refuses to call Islamic terrorism what it is, he looks weak. The Democrats look paralyzed by political correctness!

Beautifully formatted post, by the way.

[nomorenomore08]

42. So there's a grain of truth there, but as usual, people (on the right especially) are just too damn

simpleminded to see nuance.

[cpwm17]

73. Not everybody that puts a D by their name is a liberal.

Many Democratic politicians support right-wing positions, including many who support war.

We don't have a problem in the US with too little criticism of Muslims. We have way too much, with much of the criticism being in the form of bombs. The US has been abusing Muslims for decades. Liberals understand that it is in really bad form to make blanket criticisms of groups of people, especially people that are being severely abused.

We need intelligent and peace promoting politicians that have an ability to deal with the rest of the world as equals. Over time, things will then mostly take care of themselves.

[KingCharlemagne]

56. Islamophobic, much? - nt

[frizzled]

62. Double standard, much?

Any Christian sect that acted like Islam would get a lot worse reaction from you, I'd bet.

[KingCharlemagne]

63. WTF???? - I am not the one tarring an entire religion for the

actions of a small number of its adherents. That person would be . . . you.

[frizzled]

64. I never get why people think it's unfair to do this...

It doesn't matter if a small minority from a group do something bad; what matters is whether that group's more likely to give rise to bad behavior than other groups do. Is that group more likely to give rise to bad behavior than the average? If so, it's logically valid to make the association, and possibly to say there's cause and effect.

Just as we can say rape is a male problem, even though few men are rapists, terrorism is a Muslim problem.

Having said all of that, regressive belief are emphatically not a minority position amongst Muslims. Religious literalism and backward social attitudes are the norm.

You can probably see why I'm not very popular online - I hold everyone to the same standard. I'm actually not sure if I've got more hate from the Right or the Left over the last few years, even though I'm pretty damned left wing...

[KingCharlemagne]

65. Your comments plainly demonstrate that you know very little about either the history or

the theology of Islam, hence your slavish adherence to the jejuene soft bigotry of the Bill Maher and Sam Harris variety.

[frizzled]

66. I'm speaking of the present day situation - Islam is certainly not inherently backward

It's true that at other times Christianity has been much worse. But this doesn't matter to the present day.

I'd add that both Harris and Maher are awful people, who obviously carry water for Israel in promoting hatred and suspicion of Muslims.

That does not imply that Muslims themselves cannot be criticized. I'd say that not criticizing Islam for what we'd criticize Christians for is a better example of "soft bigotry".

[FrodosPet]

77. What is your analysis of the following Quran verses and Hadiths?

Qu'ran

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.190

002.190
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

002.191
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

002.216
Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.033

005.033
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

005.038
As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.012

008.012
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

008.038
Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).

008.039
And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

008.060
Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.005

009.005
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

009.014
Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

009.029
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

009.123
O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/017-qmt.php#017.016

017.016
When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy them utterly.

Hadiths

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/052-sbt.php#004.052.177

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 179:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Turks; people with small eyes, red faces, and flat noses. Their faces will look like shields coated with leather. The Hour will not be established till you fight with people whose shoes are made of hair."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 182:
Narrated 'Ali:

When it was the day of the battle of Al-Ahzab (i.e. the clans), Allah's Apostle said, "O Allah! Fill their (i.e. the infidels') houses and graves with fire as they busied us so much that we did not perform the prayer (i.e. 'Asr) till the sun set."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256:
Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:

The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle."

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/019-smt.php#019.4321

Book 019, Number 4321:
It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/019-smt.php#019.4294

Book 019, Number 4294:
It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah's Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah's behest with regard to them.

[treestar]

71. I don't think you know enough about Islam

You're simply focusing in on certain Islamic people and blaming the rest of Islam for them. Though your first paragraph actually justifies bigotry, which is astounding for DU. If you had more broad knowledge of Islam, you would realize that no group is any worse than any other when it comes to "giving rise to bad behavior." The circumstances matter also. I am not a big fan of the posters who blame the US for everything, but how do we know how we'd react if another country's military was in our country? We are spared that and the resulting "bad behavior."

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. And here folks is classic propaganda at work or the success of it

it quite frankly sends chills down my back, and not good chill either.

[treestar]

70. you're equating "Muslim" with the radical jihadists

There are 1.6 billion Muslims, many in India/Indonesia and other countries, and they have nothing to do with the Middle east and the problems there.

People in Afghanistan and Pakistan become victims of the Taliban - they don't want to live that way. They have fled where they can.

Many countries with significant Muslim populations are milder in their treatment of women, etc. Not every country is Saudi Arabia.

[pampango]

79. All Muslims are not the same. All Blacks are not the same. All whites are not the same.

All Hispanics are not the same. All Christians are not the same.

the Left don't want to call Islam out for being regressive and violent ...

And 'the Left' is right not to 'call out' Islam or Blacks or Russians or Chinese or Hindus. Stereotypes are for conservatives.

Living in a multicultural world that liberals accept and conservatives reject, we know how to deal with cultural and religious differences in a nuanced way. We don't 'coddle' or 'call out' entire groups of people who belong to one religion or ethnicity or nationality or another.

[frizzled]

80. So you reject notions such as "white privilege"?

nt

[pampango]

81. Does rejecting racial and religious stereotypes mean I must reject the notion of 'white privilege'

as well?



If a liberal accepts that 'white privilege' exists, can that liberal not also reject racial and religious stereotyping?

Or is your argument that the notion of 'white privilege' generalizes about whites in the US so stereotyping all Muslims in the world is valid? Likewise, it is acceptable to stereotype all Blacks, all Catholics, all Hispanics, all gays, all Chinese - because, hey, white privilege exists?

If 'white privilege' exists, it is now safe for the racists and xenophobes of the world to stereotype at will and not be called on it? The KKK, the French National Front and Trump supporters will be happy to hear this. Most liberals will not be so happy.

[frizzled]

82. In what way is "white privilege" not a racial stereotype?

Curious, here.

Anyway, some stereotypes are statistically valid; a rational person uses all the information at their disposal.

[pampango]

83. "some stereotypes are statistically valid". And they make life a lot 'simpler' too.

a rational person uses all the information at their disposal.

A 'rational' person will stereotype groups of people because stereotypes provide information? Sounds like a conservative argument from the 1950's but whatever works for you.

And liberals who by-and-large reject racial and religious stereotypes are not being 'rational'. Conservatives who love to stereotype groups of people are the 'rational' ones? Thanks for your perspective.

[get the red out]

45. Some red states have more D than R

This doesn't mean much in elections anymore though

[Funtatlaguy]

53. Yes

In my southern state, many of our D are pretty conservative esp on social issues including race relations.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. Were you under the impression that Democrats never play the bigot? What pretentious self serving

balderdash. Yeah, Democrats established the anti gay HIV travel ban, upheld the discrimination against us in immigration on many levels and fully resisted marriage equality. Hillary Clinton, since you asked, spent 17 years yammering about how her faith demanded she yammer against LGBT while also declaring her own marriage to be a 'sacrament' which is a tad much considering the truth, ya know?

Holy shit. DU does massive love fests dedicated to clergy that says some minorities are demon lead, disordered.
Obama, he hired anti gay hate preacher Caldwell and McClurkin 'gays are vampires, they kill our children'. Then he hooked up with Hillary's old friend Rick 'they are all like pedophiles or thieves' Warren a few times, including of course the mass hate the gays ritual that was the Inaugural.

I can't even believe straights want to pretend they are not bigots when on other days they shout and scream that they have the right to openly adore anti gay clergy.

If you don't want to mistreat one minority, you can not wallow in dogmatic hate of another minority. That's it. It is not rocket science if one is not a hypocrite by nature and by design. 'Il Papa!!!'

[KingCharlemagne]

58. Excellent observations. I would also point out, though, that even

That paragon of racial and gender equality, the Communist Party, maintained an officially homophobic stance until, IIRC, 1976 or thereabouts. To its credit, the CP has since publicly recognized the error of its former ways and issued several public statements admitting such.

Please note that the CP always claimed to advance the cause of 'scientific socialism,' hence its public recantations on discriminatory and bigoted LGBTQ policies.

[Oneironaut]

49. Trump reminds me of Hitler and his supporters brown shirts

He's gaining power like a Fascist would: through divisive rhetoric and race-baiting.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. Many Democrats who support bigots say they don't really like the bigotry but that it does not matter

as much as other things the bigot says. This is extremely common. DU adores Francis who says LGBT are demonically influenced, that God is at war with us, that we are disordered, that his followers must fight against us. But they say they do NOT agree with the bigotry, they favor him because of other things he says, which they see as being so important that the hate mongering is just a meaningless detail which LGBT should see as loving kindness coming from a man of science. When we object to those attacks straights who love Francis say 'don't' you care about the climate'? I'm sure Trump's supporters, if asked about the bigotry would say 'don't you care about the economy?'.

Here is a thread in which the OP lectures us that the Pope's bigotry is somehow not really bad:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218174532#post61

On and on about how an anti gay activist is not really anti gay, and how we should accept that he is going to seem anti gay because that's his role in life and such:


If you don't want bigots legitimized, never legitimize a bigot. Those of you who legitimize bigots helped make Trump. So good for you. Now own your work.

[KingCharlemagne]

59. Again, spot on. Ancient history now, I suppose, but until 1964-5 the Democratic

Party WAS the party of racial bigotry and Jim Crow.

[Vinca]

57. A lady called into the Washington Journal this morning and said she had been

a Hillary supporter and was now a Trump supporter. How the hell does that happen?

[KingCharlemagne]

60. That caller NEVER supported Hillary to begin with. In true Rovian ratfucking style, she tries to

Last edited Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:58 AM - Edit history (1)

dispirit and demobilize Democratic support by claiming to have taken up w the fascists. Truth is. She was probly a fascist all along.

[pnwmom]

61. Exactly. She's saying, "Follow me, idiots."

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Read this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/controlstructurerev_print.shtml

It is a good basic summary.

We are seeing something very similar at play here, the early years.

Here is another useful link

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007671

There are also scholarly works on this. And yes I do believe her, that she was a clinton follower and now a Trump supporter. What is happening is awful familiar to those who have studied history.

Among more specialized work this one is a chill down your back book

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-rise-power-movement-1923-1933/dp/0246105178/ref=sr_1_7_twi_unk_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1450799798&sr=8-7&keywords=hitler+rise+to+power

And those that go, she never was... are blind to that history.

[edhopper]

67. Bad statistics read

First, it was a small poll sample.
Second, democrats and dem leaning independents were lumped together.
Third, his favorability rose 4%, which is within the margin of error and his unfavorable declined 5%, again, margin of error.
The total difference is what changed 10%, which is just a compound of two.
Really nothing to see here.

[GoneOffShore]

68. Pollsters and Trump's numbers - Stop freaking out.

I posted this before but it bears repeating.

So, here's something to remember when looking at his poll numbers: Trump has the support of about 30% of likely Republican primary voters; pollsters usually peg "likely voters" at a bit over 60% in the general, but assume a freakishly high primary turnout, say seventy percent; then recall that self-identified Republicans are roughly 41% of all Americans.

0.3x0.7x0.41=0.0861

That's a bit under nine percent of the country, at a very generous estimate. Now remind yourself that eight percent of Americans believe the moon landings were faked. So.....

[aksptth]

72. My opinion went up!

I view Trump more favorably every time he bashes another segment of society.

It is cheering on the impending train wreck!

I gues it could be dangerous though. What if the schmuck gets elected.... Oy!

[Johnny2X2X]

78. Wake up!!!

Fascism is at our door, Trump is a white supremacist and his followers are ready to start exterminating people. They're so afraid they're capable of genocide. Not even being over the top, this is how genocides start.

[bdwker]

84. That's weird.