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Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:18 AM

Daughter discovers her fiance is conservative

My oldest daughter was shocked to find that her fiance did not think much of Bernie. She went on to tell me he did not agree with a higher minimum wage and that most people on welfare were lazy.

Needless to say I was not surprised. I had already determined his opinion on these things from his prior conversations with me. I told her that if she wants the relationship to last she needs to hold her tongue regarding politics and to tell him to also not discuss this with her. I am not sure what other answer I could give. I gave up trying to convince others about their political beliefs a while ago (I am basically the only liberal/moderate in my department at work - my one move to try to convince someone else did not go well).

It is not my life, and her fiance has lots of admirable qualities, but I would not be broken up if it ultimately did not work out. I am afraid that he will always assume that my daughter will subsume her career to his.

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Arrow 63 replies Author Time Post
Reply Daughter discovers her fiance is conservative (Original post)
exboyfil Dec 2015 OP
Scuba Dec 2015 #1
FSogol Dec 2015 #2
ViseGrip Dec 2015 #3
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2015 #55
TipTok Dec 2015 #12
Scuba Dec 2015 #13
Arugula Latte Dec 2015 #32
onecaliberal Dec 2015 #33
vaberella Dec 2015 #50
darkangel218 Dec 2015 #4
Turbineguy Dec 2015 #8
Brickbat Dec 2015 #5
exboyfil Dec 2015 #9
DebbieCDC Dec 2015 #35
Fla Dem Dec 2015 #40
MohRokTah Dec 2015 #6
arely staircase Dec 2015 #25
HughBeaumont Dec 2015 #29
rainy Dec 2015 #7
exboyfil Dec 2015 #11
JudyM Dec 2015 #26
exboyfil Dec 2015 #31
JudyM Dec 2015 #45
Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #10
Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2015 #14
saturnsring Dec 2015 #15
exboyfil Dec 2015 #21
panader0 Dec 2015 #16
lostnfound Dec 2015 #17
WhiteTara Dec 2015 #28
karynnj Dec 2015 #18
bigwillq Dec 2015 #19
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #20
Matariki Dec 2015 #22
Hekate Dec 2015 #27
itcfish Dec 2015 #38
Hekate Dec 2015 #23
jwirr Dec 2015 #24
HughBeaumont Dec 2015 #30
malaise Dec 2015 #34
itcfish Dec 2015 #36
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #37
lunatica Dec 2015 #39
Kath1 Dec 2015 #60
Inkfreak Dec 2015 #41
trueblue2007 Dec 2015 #42
GreenPartyVoter Dec 2015 #43
LeftyMom Dec 2015 #44
lindysalsagal Dec 2015 #46
GreenEyedLefty Dec 2015 #47
L. Coyote Dec 2015 #48
vaberella Dec 2015 #53
Skittles Dec 2015 #49
Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #51
vaberella Dec 2015 #52
exboyfil Dec 2015 #54
vaberella Dec 2015 #57
Laffy Kat Dec 2015 #56
tularetom Dec 2015 #58
BillZBubb Dec 2015 #59
pnwmom Dec 2015 #61
totodeinhere Dec 2015 #62
PowerToThePeople Dec 2015 #63

Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:20 AM

1. In my small experience, common values are necessary for a successful relationship.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:24 AM

2. I agree. In a few years she'll be squirming while he's trying to get a busboy or waiter fired.

There are other fish in the sea.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:26 AM

3. Ditto, this WILL NOT WORK. tell her to wait!

 

Then the daughter needs to get him into some extra curricular civic activities, and maybe he'll change his beliefs. this worked with my niece.

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Response to ViseGrip (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:26 PM

55. Doubt that would help... better she found out now and can find a better match.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:54 AM

12. Not all of them though...

 

How incredibly tedious....

Why not just clone yourself and marry that?

You love peanut butter and jelly cut into triangles with no crusts?! Me too!!

Ugh...

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Response to TipTok (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:56 AM

13. Values are not the same as tastes, interest and such.

 

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Response to TipTok (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:08 PM

32. I agree with Scuba.

 

Politics gets to the heart of your core values and world view. That's a lot more important than trivial things like PBandJ preferences.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:47 PM

33. Yes, differing core values is a huge obstacle in marriage.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:02 PM

50. I agree. But, my parents are on opposite ends of the fence and rarely to never discussed politics.

n/t

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:26 AM

4. The bad part is that RW views go beyond just "discussing" politics.

 

They seep into everyday life. I could never do it again. (Have been in a r/s with someone like that).

It is in the end your daughter's decision what she wants to do, but I don't see how is going to work, especially if your daughter is passionate about changing the country for the better.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:35 AM

8. True that.

It's more of a religion than a political point of view. It seems to require two years of brainwashing by Fox News/RW Hate Radio. So there is always hope.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:27 AM

5. This didn't come up before they got engaged? Oof.

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:41 AM

9. Good point

A good part of their time in their relationship has been spent studying for the same classes (they are both senior mechanical engineering students). He is the first person she has ever dated (kind of like me in that regard - I only had a few dates before meeting my wife and never went out more than twice with the same girl/woman). He has many good qualities (smart, hard working, gentle, handsome, and kind). They have a common interest in dogs (her passion) and television shows. They seem to talk all the time (nightly Skype sessions over the breaks). They live in the same dorm in college. I don't know what they talk about though - that is not my business.

They will have known each other at least 2 1/2 years before they get married. Their progress is actually slower than mine with my wife (met her in April, engaged in September, married her the following August). My wife was 20 and I was 23 when we got married. My daughter will be 20 (perhaps 21) and he will be 22 or 23.

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:15 PM

35. That was my first thought

Politics hasn't come up before?

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:40 PM

40. My thought exactly. How do you get so close to each other that that you becoame engaged

and never discuss politics. Heck just discussing current events should have given her a clue. She, I guess would express a progressive POV and he a conservative.

Also agree with poster who opined that a good relationship should have shared convictions.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:31 AM

6. In my experience in these cases, more times than not the female converts to conservatism.

 

Sad, but it's been my observation this is what happens.

For your daughter's sake, I'm hopeful this will not be the case in this relationship.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:33 PM

25. My female cousin married a winger. (libertarian type)

For a while she just played up the overlaps on the liberal/libertarian venn diagram now she thinks abolishing the Fed I s the most pressing issue, Obamacare is evil and the 2nd amendment is under attack.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:53 PM

29. YUP.

Seen this sort of thing happen twice with people I know.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:35 AM

7. My husband was a Rush fan when I met him but we never discussed politics.

After living with me for a few years and hearing me make since when arguing with the TV ha ha he is now a raving democrat! I think he really was deep down a democrat but had fallen into the am talk radio brain washing of the time. I'm just thinking the finance could be swayed by the truth

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Response to rainy (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:48 AM

11. I hate to admit it but I was a Limbaugh

fan for a few years before I changed my political stripes (the 2000 election and the Iraqi War changed me).

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:42 PM

26. What about the 2000 election did you find compelling enough to change your stripes? Nt

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Response to JudyM (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:06 PM

31. Jeb and the Florida fix

but it took the invasion of Iraq to push me over the edge.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:12 PM

45. It's cool that instead of just resigning to be a disaffected Republican you switched teams entirely

and are an active dem. I wonder why there aren't a lot more people doing the same. But anyway, welcome...

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:44 AM

10. How long have they known each other?

It seems to me sorts of disscussions should have come up before they chose to get engaged.

I remember getting in political conversations with every single girl I dated, well, after high school anyway. We did not always agree on politics, but it was never the reason we did not keep a relationship going.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 12:01 PM

14. I don't think it will work.

I was married to a guy who actually told me, "Women vote for the best-looking candidate. That's the only reason they voted for Kennedy. They don't know about the issues." We were divorced by the time Bill Clinton was running.

He was convinced that was the only reason Harding, FDR, and Kennedy got elected. Because women could vote as of 1920.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 12:20 PM

15. how does he feel about her body her choice, women working ?

 

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Response to saturnsring (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:23 PM

21. I assume he is ok with wive's working

otherwise why would he marry an engineer. The choice question is interesting. I got to think he is absolutely against it given his faith and political beliefs.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 12:31 PM

16. I have two daughters.

The eldest is engaged to a great guy, a progressive liberal.
The youngest is dating a guy she met in college. I met him earlier this month when I attended
her graduation. We were drinking on graduation eve, me getting to know him, when I asked
suddenly "Are you a Democrat?" My GF told me to shut up, but I just looked at him.
"Yes", he said, much to my relief.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 12:43 PM

17. I don't think she should bite her tongue. She needs to know how he will treat her in the future.

The republicanism alone isn't a deal-breaker -- my best friend is one although he dislikes the current field entirely -- but will he treat her opinions and ideas respectfully even if they disagree? Much more important to find that out. She might discover he has a terrible temper over it, or mocks her. If you're gonna be married,you oughtta know how the other person acts when there's a disagreement.

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:50 PM

28. I agree. I think it's hard to believe

that she didn't know his views before the engagement; but it's still not too late to learn everything about him before she marries.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 12:55 PM

18. I have known couples still together in their 60s and 70s that are political mixed marriages

Obviously, they came of age in a far less popularized time, when Republicans and Democrats could share more values than they tend to do now. Not to mention, especially in some states, there were Republican liberals or moderates. ( Think Jacob Javitz, John Heinz, or Senator Case)

Here, it may be that his family was Republican, the people in his "communities of interest" were Republican and he has not really questioned how the values of the various Republicans matched up with his personal values. You say that he has lots of admirable qualities and your daughter loves him enough to have become engaged. This suggests that THEIR personal values are likely far closer to each others .. and likely yours ... than the current Republicans.

It may be that he has never known anyone who fell on bad times after losing a job .. or never getting a good enough one and has blindly absorbed the view of others that people who need welfare need it because they are lazy and don't work hard enough to get a reasonable job. In general, US communities defined by the people you actually interact with are mostly pretty homogeneous. If his family was comfortably middle class or better, he might never have had a friend or relative who is on welfare. For people of his age, those he knows may still be subsidized by parents, especially if they are struggling with either not getting a good enough job or other issues. What you are concerned (understandably) is callousness towards the poor might simply be lack of understanding of what they face.

When I read your post, I immediately thought of two twentysomes who lived across the street from me in NJ where we lived for about 25 years seeing them grow up as two of the nicest people you ever could meet. They were both talented, bright, articulate, and very very helpful to anyone in the neighborhood. (Including clearing a steep driveway of snow when they knew we were due to return and there was about 2 ft of snow!) Yet, the parents, great neighbors who we agreed with on many things unrelated to politics, were Republican -- as were these boys at least 3 years ago when we moved to NJ. Yet, I think ANY girls who win the love of either of those boys are lucky ... and maybe... if the Republicans continue on their path ... they will become Democrats. Even if they don't, I am certain that they will love and respect the ones they choose.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 12:58 PM

19. People believe what they believe

 

It's unlikely that either one will change each other. They have to decide if they can both live with each other's beliefs. It might happen, it might not.

I find it hard to believe that this conversation did not come up sooner.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:15 PM

20. I know there are many conservatives who on the personal level are nice enough

people and on the personal level can be tolerant and compassionate. But for a significant other - I would find rightwing nonsense hard to handle.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:23 PM

22. My nephew describes himself as a moderate conservative

He's a good person, even if I think his politics are misguided. His wife seems very progressive. They get along fabulously - it's very possible to have differing political views and still have a good relationship. My nephew pointedly won't discuss politics, so it keeps our family get-togethers from devolving into arguments. I'm hoping his wife's views have a good influence on him.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:47 PM

27. My niece married a guy like that. Lovely man, Republican because his parents were....

They had both grown up in a small coastal California city where there was diversity and her being Jewish never came up. You know: meh.

Then their jobs took them to Bakersfield, which is inland and has oil, cows, and smog. And very conservative churchy Republicans.

After several years there, she discovered what it was like to be told she was going to fry in Hell and he discovered that Republicans could be batshit crazy. When Obama was elected, her whole workplace broke out the sackcloth and ashes and she and the one Muslim woman working there passed each other in the hallway and secretively indicated they were doing the happy dance inside. At some point along the way at a family gathering, he told us he was no longer a Republican.

Neither one of them is an activist in any way. They just had some experiences and in a sense grew up.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:22 PM

38. Sorry, But I had to Laugh

I pictured, a Muslim and a Jew doing a Happy Dance. LOL Only in America!

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:28 PM

23. Weeeellll, it could work. I just know that by the time 1968 was over, I knew I couldn't...

...live with a Republican spouse, but that was because I had very strong opinions of my own and had a taste for activism.

We have a couple of "mixed marriages" on our block, but the wives let their husbands do the talking.

I vote for a long engagement -- no need to hurry, you know.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:32 PM

24. Maybe most important is for her to learn what this conservative

thinks about women's issues. She already knows about two of them. If his attitude is like many conservative men today he will expect her to sit down and shut up.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:55 PM

30. Ecccccccch.

Lack of economic common sense is a deal-breaker. Lack of compassion's another. Someone else doing the thinking for you . . . deal-breaker. No one's born believing conservative narratives, they're learned.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:58 PM

34. Tell her to run now

before there are kids

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:19 PM

36. Let's not be so negative

When I married my husband he was very conservative. Little by little I made him see that nothing is just black and white and that gray does exist. He softened up a lot, but 9/11 really converted him to a flaming liberal. He said the look in Bush's face when the towers were hit and the refusal of Cheney and him going under oath for the 9/11 Commission totally changed his point of view. So there is hope.

You daughter's fiancee was probably brought up by parents who think that way so it takes a while for people to break away from those one track thoughts.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:21 PM

37. Best wishes to both of them, and you.

 

There is no set pattern as to why relationships work or not. They might be perfect together. Additionally, the people they are today aren't the people they will be in ten years. Seems both are very smart. Smart people make learning a life goal.

Best of luck and if they get married may they create an amazing union of mind, body and soul.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:25 PM

39. After being married for years I found out my husband was a racist republican

It gave me one more reason for a divorce. Although I can tolerate some republicans, I have no room whatsoever for racists in my life. I think they're disgusting low lives.

So you're daughter may find herself in my position. At which time divorce may be a blessing.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #39)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:50 PM

60. My formerly apolitical ex got brainwashed by FOX and hate radio.

Divorce was not long coming and, yes, it was (and still is) a blessing.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:41 PM

41. It doesn't matter. Love has a way of sweeping little things like politics aside.

People who think it'll matter are far to wrapped up in politics. And that's sad.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:44 PM

42. i would NEVER NEVER marry a man who was not a democrat and liberal

it is not possible to keep your mouth shut AND WOMEN SHOULD NOT HAVE TO KEEP QUIET

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:14 PM

43. I married a politically conservative evangelical. It was rough when we were younger but

but we have both mellowed out and enjoy being gobsmacked by Trump together.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:28 PM

44. The more important question is how do they handle disagreements?

My SO and I met here. So obviously we agree about a lot, but we also have pretty closely overlapping opinions on fairly obscure stuff. Learning to handle disagreements about the few things we disagree about? Not gonna lie, we're both stubborn assholes and that was and is fucking hard. Actually, I'm still working on it, he's still working on it and that's probably always going to be a struggle, not taking disagreement personally.

So my personal unsolicited advice: stop worrying about his opinions and start watching how they handle disagreeing. That'll tell you whether or not to put any non-refundable deposits down on the wedding stuff.

And specific advice about their politics: if it was a big deal it probably would have come up before. Sometimes we have to accept that other people have different priorities.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:22 PM

46. My primary concern is that he's her first relationship. I hope they give this time.

I was too young and clueless to get it right, myself. Btw- Bigots are just dumb and mean.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:44 PM

47. I was pretty clueless in a lot of ways in my early 20s.

I have always been liberal leaning but had some ideas that came off as conservative because I simply had no clue. Ugh, it's embarrassing when I stop and think about it.

If he's otherwise a good kid, I wouldn't write him off just yet. Give him some food for thought if an occasion arises. He might come around.

That's all I got.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:53 PM

48. While she follows your advice, don't you do the same. Ask him hard questions in front of her.

You know, get things out in the open before it is too late and their are grandchildren that get hurt in a breakup.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #48)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:11 PM

53. I support this advice. I know if it was me, I would take it seriously. n/t

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:54 PM

49. tell her to run

he's an asshole

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:05 PM

51. Good advice.

 

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:07 PM

52. I would say your daughter and her fiance should do those pre-marriage counseling things.

I know some churches mandate that couples do that in order to find out if they are on the same path moving forward to minimize divorce. For instance children, family expectations, jobs, and politics. It would be good for them.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #52)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:19 PM

54. Signed up for January

She is getting married in our church (actually my wife's church now since I attend services with my grandma at the Nursing Home).

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #54)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:33 PM

57. Oh good. That should help a lot.

I'm very supportive of this because of a story one of my friends had shared with me. One of her closest friends was getting married to a woman that he adored. They went to the counseling and there were a few things they didn't agree on. One of them was children. She didn't want any, and he wanted to have a family. He had hoped to change her mind later on in the marriage. She never did which led to both wasting away 5 years and he had to deal with being cuckold. Needless to say, the poor man has been disillusioned with relationships since and has been single since. I would have her go and keep in mind that he most likely won't change later. Normally that doesn't happen. If she can't handle it, then they might not be compatible.

Anyway, I think this is a great move on her part to make sure they're right for each other. As a side note, all churches should have this as a prerequisite and they should have this in City Hall too. It's such a helpful service. I wonder if this is something planned parenthood should help with too.


Lastly, I hope the best for your daughter and her future husband. I actually hope they can work it out because he truly loves her to want to spend the rest of his life with her. I also wish you all the best. I know if things do, God forbid, not work out you'll be the one picking up the pieces.

Happy Holidays,
V

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:32 PM

56. You know, my ex changed during the marriage.

He was pretty RW when we met, although he considered himself a libertarian. His ideals were rather immature and not thought-through. He also didn't do well in his arguments. Through the years he changed. He switched his affiliation to Democratic and voted for Obama. He supports Bernie now. The marriage still didn't work, but it wasn't due to the politics. My two cents.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:48 PM

58. If it would have been up to me to choose my offsprings' significant others

Neither of them would be married to their current partners. My son in law and I disagree politically probably 2/3 of the time, but he is probably my favorite hunting partner, as well as a willing helper on do it yourself projects. He's been married to my daughter since 1982.

My son married in 1996, at age 30 to a career woman after living with her for five years and although she appears overly driven and ambitious (and apolitical) to me, they seem very happy and they are doing well raising her child from a previous relationship.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:58 PM

59. For what it is worth, my experience is

that if politics are really just an afterthought to him at his stage in life, there is hope. But if there is a religious right component and/or he believes his positions are carved in stone, she should run for the hills.

The fundamental principle of what goes for conservatism these days is selfishness. Lack of compassion flows from that. It doesn't bode well for any relationship.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:02 AM

61. The problem is that a conservative political bent is often accompanied

by a mindset that could make life difficult in all sorts of areas.

For example, it could affect child-raising. One of my relatives married a conservative man who has gotten more so over the years. She didn't think it mattered because she's "not political."

But now they have a mentally ill young adult child (five suicide attempts, each worse than the last) and he's basically written his daughter off. He says he's done all he can and that's it. (And also not true -- they have lots of resources. They could pay for her full living expenses in a separate home if they wished to.)

My husband uses the word "hard" to describe this father. He's very "hard." And so I think his political views tie in with his whole approach to life -- they can't be just put in a box and taken out every November.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:02 AM

62. If they really love each other then they will find a way. And isn't there a saying that

opposites attract? I know I would love my wife no matter what her politics are.

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Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:09 AM

63. Crazy.

 

How could you get engaged to someone that you do not know that well yet?

Oh wait, I remember getting married in my early 20s, way too fast. Ya, that did not last.

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