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Sun Jan 10, 2016, 09:44 AM

BBC4 - Fascinating talk with Scott Atran about ISIS as revolution - Sobering

Talk is about 5 minutes on The World This Weekend - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06vjjmz - Listen at the 21 minute mark to hear Scott Atran, a research fellow who has interviewed many terrorist sympathizers who believes we are underestimating the strength of this movement - we have "miles and miles of grief to go." (News segment right before was about anniversary of Charlie Hedbo attack.)




http://artisresearch.com/scott-atran/

Scott Atran is Senior Research Fellow, Harris Manchester College, University of Oxford and Co-Founder, Centre for the Resolution of Intractable Conflict at Oxford. He is tenured as Research Director in Anthropology at France’s National Center for Scientific Research, Institut Jean Nicod-Ecole Normale Supérieure, in Paris. He also holds positions as Presidential Scholar, John Jay College of Criminal Justice, New York; and Visiting Prof., Psychology and Public Policy, Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

Scott has experimented extensively on the ways scientists and ordinary people categorize and reason about nature, on the cognitive and evolutionary psychology of religion, and on the limits of rational choice in political and cultural conflict. He often briefs members of government on the The Devoted Actor versus the Rational Actor in Managing World Conflict, on the Comparative Anatomy and Evolution of Global Network Terrorism, and on Pathways to and from Violent Extremism. He has been engaged in conflict negotiations in the Middle East, and in the establishment of indigenously managed forest reserves for Native American peoples.

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Reply BBC4 - Fascinating talk with Scott Atran about ISIS as revolution - Sobering (Original post)
TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 OP
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #1
TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 #2
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #3
TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 #4
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #5
Mika Jan 2016 #6
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #7

Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 10:33 AM

1. the reality

is that we both overestimate and underestimate them.

They pose VERY little threat to our well-being in the west. They have very little chance of winning any wars against western military either.

BUT

They do pose a threat in destabilized countries that the West has no patience for/interest in...

the West has proven and continues to prove that it genuinely doesn't care about people for altruistic reasons... ISIS - and many revolutionary terrorists groups give people a sense that either they are cared about personally OR that by joining they can take back control from an uncaring elite...

Look at what's going on in Yemen now... why wouldn't a Yemini who is watching his family starve to death at the hands of the West and Saudi Arabia NOT want to fight or punish their oppressors...?

But in the West we mostly are kept in the dark about these sorts of crimes, and so are befuddled by the allure of ISIS, etc.

Until we address our foreign policy, we can't ever hope to stop ISIS and other ISIS like groups.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 10:39 AM

2. Totally agree.

But in relation to Europe, I don't think they can win, but they can certainly cause disruption for years to come if the revolutionary fervor takes hold of every a few thousand. After all, according to this man, IS has numerous sympathizers in Europe.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 10:45 AM

3. yeah

but it's just that: disruption... which isn't fatal...

the main problem won't be ISIS, but people overreacting TO ISIS, which could lead to nationalism and the rise of right-wing extremism...

But ISIS.. meh... it would take 100 attacks as deadly as 9/11 to kill as many people as obesity kills every year in America...

So...hard to really be afraid of of these guys... no matter how desperately politicians and the media try...

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 11:12 AM

4. People don't see it that way

When my kid eats a bag of chips, I don't look at her as going down the road to death.

On the other hand, were I in Germany, I might not be so excited to let my sixteen year old daughter head downtown for a night with friends. And I would be mighty pissed that my daughter had to pay that price .

That's not right-wing extremism. That's just human nature, and if the left doesn't soon figure that out, we are toast.

No one should be forced to partake in their own cultural genocide with their mouths shut for fear of being called a right winger or a nazi.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 11:21 AM

5. Have you been to Germany recently?

The Germans are not nearly as scared of terrorism as Americans. It's not even close.

There's no real cultural genocide either. That's more fear mongering.

I live in Europe and have spent plenty of time in Germany. The people there - even the right-wingers - are a lot less scared than Americans.

Living in perpetual fear is very much an American thing.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 01:02 PM

6. I just got back from Germany. People are worried about the mass migration.

 

Pretty much every public transportation mode is seriously crowded with Islamic refugees... I was shocked quite honestly at how many were men in their 20's & 30's. Pretty much every German I interacted with is disconcerted about the potential outcomes from so many unemployed men with little to do but be upset at their condition.




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Response to Mika (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 01:09 PM

7. I spent a month there a few weeks back

People are concerned but they aren't scared.

I didn't run into a single person scared of terrorism or unwilling to go out due to it. Christmas markets were jammed!

The main thing I heard was people concerned about the economy. And that mainly was about the car emission stuff and Brand Germany being damaged. Not about migrants taking jobs like you'd hear in America.

I'm sure there's polls to check.

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