German Sexual Assaults Lead To ‘I Told You So’ Claims On Muslim Immigrants In U.S.

[Purveyor]

American conservatives are claiming a "we told you so" moment.

From Republican front-runner Donald Trump to evangelical Franklin Graham, many on the political right are pointing to the shocking wave of sexual assaults in Germany as a justification of their concerns of Muslim immigration.

It's now clear that what police first described as a "relaxed atmosphere" in Cologne, Germany, on New Year's Eve was anything but: Of the more than 500 criminal complaints related to incidents near the city's main train station that night, roughly 40 percent include allegations of sexual assault, including at least two rapes. A police report cited by the BBC described the assailants — small groups of men broken out from an estimated 1,000-man crowd — as "almost exclusively" North African or Arab.

To conservatives, the depraved assaults confirmed their fears.

"What's going on in Germany is unthinkable," Donald Trump said at an Iowa rally over the weekend, when he linked the incidents abroad to "radical Islamic terrorism."

MORE...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/11/german-sexual-assaults-lead-to-i-told-you-so-claims-on-muslim-immigrants/

[philosslayer]

1. Did you expect anything different?

Islamophobes don't need much of an excuse to show their hatred.

[smirkymonkey]

4. Obviously, you are not female. We don't need this kind of harrassment here.

You obviously don't care about how this affects women. What is the difference between being prejudiced upon race or sex? You are just choosing one over the other.

[ericson00]

110. not to mention, Islam is not a race

this idiotic idea that it is, is toxic.

[smirkymonkey]

113. No, but some people here think they are. However they do have a certain

common set of cultural/religious values. And they are fairly uniform. They almost all subscribe to the idea the Sharia law should be the law of the land. That is a problem in my book.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. You consider mass, mob sexual assault to be "not much of an excuse"?

[Democat]

11. Rape is no big deal?

I always thought DU members took rape pretty seriously, but a few don't see any big deal in this case?

[Coventina]

18. I guess being a women = "Islamophobe" in your world.

[840high]

79. Post after post on

this topic you don't seem upset that women were assaulted.

[philosslayer]

83. I have skin in this game, do you?

I have a daughter who lives in Germany. I can assure you that I find this situation as upsetting as anyone on this board.

That being said, the prevailing wisdom seems to have switched from bringing those responsible to justice to a blanket condemnation of migrants and a shout increasing in volume that "those dirty migrants are responsible for this!". Tarring an entire group based on the actions of a tiny minority is racism, pure and simple.

See below. THAT is the result of this type of attitude.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395246/Hundreds-far-right-protesters-rampage-German-town-Leipzig-destroying-ethnic-restaurants-takeaways-latest-anti-migrant-demonstrations.html

[840high]

92. dailymail....

Girl, 17, is 'raped' and her 14-year-old sister is sexually assaulted as she tried to save her when group of Syrian migrants surrounded them at German public swimming pool

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395924/Girl-17-raped-14-year-old-sister-sexually-assaulted-tried-save-group-Syrian-migrants-surrounded-German-public-swimming-pool.html#ixzz3x45yZ99O
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Lizzie Poppet]

112. Neither do misogynists.

I'm just saying...

[plus5mace]

2. Yeah, they were right. This has been a devastating turn of events.

Muslims get a free pass to rape women in Europe because the government is too PC to stop them. It's like something in a right wing comic book. If I read it as fiction, I'd say it wasn't a credible story line, yet here is the chiefs of police in two large cities saying that they covered up crimes to avoid creating anti-immigrant sentiment. The whole Bernie vs Hillary show won't mean anything if the public thinks we care more about not causing offense than about protecting them.

[smirkymonkey]

3. Yes, and as usual the rape apologists will be out in full force with their charges of

"islamaphobia". If the shoe fits...

[leftynyc]

14. Like the very first post

on this story.

[pampango]

8. Liberals are too "politically correct" to stop them? Who does that sound like?

Muslims get a free pass to rape women in Europe because the government is too PC to stop them.

Acting and sounding like Marine Le Pen or Geert Wilders is not the answer. All Muslims are not bad people. They do not get a 'free pass' to rape women in Europe', regardless of what the far-right claims. The vast majority of them are good people as is true with any ethnic or racial group.

The whole Bernie vs Hillary show won't mean anything if the public thinks we care more about not causing offense than about protecting them.

The Donald, Cruz and the other republicans are all about protecting us from evil Muslims (and Mexicans and gay marriage and China and Japan, etc.). If 'protection' from all the evil Muslims is what you are looking for, there is a party for that. The GOP will keep them all out of the US under the assumption that they are all bad. Should we start to act like republicans (condemn 'political correctness', create and cater to fear) in order to win the next election?

[LisaL]

9. As far as I can tell there haven't been any actual arrests in these numerous attacks.

Does that not qualify as "free pass?"

[pampango]

13. If it were true, it would be evidence of the dreaded liberal "PC free pass" that Trump touts.

Thirty-one people, most of them North African or Middle Eastern countries, have been charged in the attacks. Of those, 18 have been identified as asylum-seekers.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/09/europe/germany-new-year-violence/

[get the red out]

43. This

The less anyone makes of this, the more it helps the right, which helps no one.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

84. Even a broken clock is right

twice a day.

[Jim Beard]

6. Merkel admits there is a problem, just too many, too fast

[link:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3394896/Merkel-admits-Europe-lost-control-refugee-crisis.html|Under fire Merkel admits Europe has 'lost control' of the refugee crisis as thousands of demonstrators take to the streets of Germany shouting 'take your Muslims with you' after sex attack crisis

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3394896/Merkel-admits-Europe-lost-control-refugee-crisis.html#ixzz3x0SKsGgt
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
]

German Chancellor admitted Europe is 'vulnerable' and said countries do not have control of the situation
Angela Merkel also said the euro was 'directly linked' to freedom of movement in Europe and if countries do not allow their borders to be crossed without much difficulty, the European single market would 'suffer acutely'
Thousands of people took to the streets of the German city of Leipzig to protest against the influx of refugees
Protesters chanted 'Resistance!' and 'Deport them!' and some had signs which read 'Refugees not welcome!'


k

[Quantess]

7. I told you so, too.

I am not surprised at all by the turn of events.

[LisaL]

10. It's kind of obvious.

You let that many people into the country (from a completely different culture, no less), you are bound to have problems.

[frizzled]

25. It's not obvious if you aren't allowed to single out problematic cultures.

The events of the last few weeks lend a great deal of support to the right-wing thesis that political correctness over policing migrant cultures properly is hindering public safety.

[leftynyc]

60. And what would be your argument

that they are wrong.

[840high]

81. I'm not right wing and I

don't care for PC in this matter.

[Democat]

12. Eventually the left will be forced to face reality

In Europe and America.

[sufrommich]

15. Probably not until Europe takes a hard turn to the right.

Which is most likely coming soon.

[Democat]

16. Hopefully America won't make the same mistake

Imagine life under President Trump.

[jonno99]

62. I don't know why the RW gets to own the language on this. There is nothing wrong with

those on the left supporting sensible immigration policies. To do otherwise leaves a vacuum of ideas - to be filled with those from the likes of Trump.

[pampango]

17. You don't often hear liberals say

"the left will be forced to face reality" and adopt the attitudes and policies of the right.

[The2ndWheel]

19. Unfortunately, and what makes everything so difficult

is that there isn't a true reality out there somewhere. Every person or side thinks they or it sees the correct reality. It's all subjective. Which is itself a subjective statement, which means there might be a one true reality. We really can't know. Again with the subjectivity.

With the amount of time that human beings have been around, if all of us can't agree on everything by now, we most likely never will. Damn, did it again.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

20. Is that all that is? Fear of the RW? If the RW comes out against mass, mob sexual assault

good Progressives have to make excuses and actively ignore mass, mob sexual assault?

That's not principled. That's debased political partisan hackery and that is very un-Progressive.

[pampango]

21. Hardly. The RW has been anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim for a long time, not pro-women's rights.

RW'ers use these assaults to whip up more anti-immigrant, anti-refugee sentiment by stereotyping all as the same as the criminal element within them. Trump, Le Pen, Wilders and other RW'ers will seek to ban all Muslims and send home all the refugees who have been admitted.

good Progressives have to make excuses and actively ignore mass, mob sexual assault?

No. To use Trump's favorite term of derision, we do not have to be so "politically correct" that we ignore mob sexual assault - whether is by immigrants, refugees, Muslims, Mexicans, Blacks or good ol' native-born white folks.

Progressives should support the enforcement of laws that protect all of us, without joining in RW hysteria about Muslims and immigrants. German authorities should arrest and prosecute those guilty of assault and rape regardless of where they were born, what language they speak, what religion they are, etc. Then continue to promote and explain liberal policies.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. Norway is conducting anti-rape classes for its immigrants. That seems as if they're stereotyping.

[pampango]

36. As a voluntary program that is part of acculturation classes.

A voluntary five-hour programme offered nationwide involves group discussions of sex and rape, and teaches that types of violence considered ‘honourable’ in some cultures are illegal and shameful in Norway.

Most European countries have avoided such integration initiatives, fearing they may stigmatise refugees as potential rapists and fuel anti-immigration rhetoric.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-teaching-refugees-about-sexual-consent-a6780536.html

When I was in the Peace Corps we took lessons in the social and sexual mores of the country we were in and learned to live by them. I suspect most Muslims will be able to do the same.

[jonno99]

51. Voluntary? Unless I hear different I'll have my doubts that potential perpetrators will take

a class and realize "oh - you mean these women don't really like our advances?!".

No, like rapists everywhere they use it as a form of power and control. And for those who "get off" on controlling others, this is not easily remedied - short of removal from society.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

53. Bank robbers need a voluntary class about not stealing.

[frizzled]

57. Some cultures don't do private property - so that might be appropriate.

In some cases.

[jonno99]

58. Yep - a class lasting about 3 to 5 ought to do it...nt

[smirkymonkey]

68. Exactly! Voluntary classes. That's like putting

a band-aid over a gaping flesh wound. It's nothing but lip service and nothing will change for the better.

It isn't that these men don't know better, it's that they don't care and they know they can get away with it without punishment. That is why they do it. They want to put uppity western women in their place and there is no authority around with the cojones to stand up to them.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

52. It still needed to be offered is the point.

There is a rape culture and it needs to be confronted without all the PC tip-toeing because the freedom and safety of women is at risk.

Failure to do so will only feed the backlash.

[pampango]

65. I think Norway would agree. The point is that not all Syrians or all Muslims are the same.

The freedom and safety of women needs to be assured without stereotyping and discriminating against entire groups of people. If you believe that avoiding stereotyping and discrimination is "PC tip-toeing", there is one candidate in particular who would probably agree with you.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

71. There is one -- and only one -- common denominator to the NYE attacks.

And this is not an isolated event. The attacks were par for the cultural course. It is a cultural issue and it has to be dealt with, without the partisan fear mongering at the expense of women.

[mwrguy]

91. American universities have the same classes for (mostly white christian) male students

'Consent 101' and the like.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

97. Are they targeting white Christian males?

[Democat]

28. You don't often hear liberals try to minimize rape gangs either

It's a shame.

[frizzled]

30. Do you think there's a change in attitudes from some on the left at present?

I'm seeing this online and in some papers, but I'm curious to know if you agree.

[Quantess]

37. I don't know what's going on in the USA, since I'm in Europe.

I have noticed a slight increase in criticism of the extremely welcoming and generous immigration policy in Sweden. You are not immediately, knee-jerk labelled, "RACIST" anymore for stating obvious truths and for taking about real incidences, like compared with 6 months ago or a couple of years ago. Shit has gotten real, and most people know it.

You asked the other person, not me, I know.

[pampango]

38. I hope never. Check post #21 at 10:22. "German authorities should arrest and prosecute those guilty

of assault and rape regardless of where they were born, what language they speak, what religion they are, etc."

If that constitutes 'minimizing rape gangs' we just have different definitions.

[frizzled]

23. There is an irreducible conflict between feminism and multiculturalism.

Must-read link here:

http://freedomfromunrealloyalties.tumblr.com/post/132847281088/from-is-multiculturalism-bad-for-women-edited#tumblr_notes

In its demand for equality for women, feminism sets itself in opposition to virtually every culture on earth.

Our ruling elites don't like to talk in terms of blunt conflicts, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

It implies that some aspects of our society are unworkable and the project of multicultural liberalism will fail, but we're under no such obligation here to pretend all is rosy.

[Quantess]

54. You have to be a woman to understand this on the raw level. I don't think you do...

Thank you though, for pointing it out! Good post!

[frizzled]

56. I'd be interested in what you think you're getting from it that I'm not.

I don't believe in "innate knowledge" that can't be explained to other people, either :^)

That being said, I freely admit I'm neither female nor any orthodoxy of feminist, though I'm sympathetic to many feminist concerns.

[Quantess]

95. Cheers!

You already implied you were not a woman. It's completely okay, there are a lot of likeable men in the world.

[Dems to Win]

63. I've long said "I'm a feminist, not a multiculturalist."

If a culture does not respect women, I don't respect that culture. (and I'm plenty willing to criticize my own culture). I believe in Universal Human Rights, with no exceptions for cultural traditions.

[get the red out]

94. THANK YOU!

One big reason I am "not a good liberal". Every culture that ever existed before the ones we see today, has come and gone, or changed. Ignorance need not be supported IMO. Universal Human Rights (that consider women human), need to come before anything else.

[Quantess]

64. We'll take it my take on "feminism"

[Marr]

24. Neither am I.

I expect this sort of schizoid, cognitive dissonance is going to be the norm on the left until more people figure out it's not 'liberal' to stand up for misogynistic/anti-gay/anti-intellectual bullshit like Islam.

[Quantess]

27. Womens' right to not be sexually assulted takes a backseat to multiculturalism.

Women, (young women and teenage girls, mostly) get the short end of the stick in the name of cultural tolerance.
This is unacceptable, and women (and anyone who is pro-gay and transgender friendly) need to speak up against these lying policies of these deceptive european countries.

[treestar]

66. did you claim Muslim men are more likely to commit rape?

any proof of that or justification why they should be judged as a group for the actions of some of the individuals?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. I thought Trump was blaming Mexican immigrants for rape.

When will he get to Americans who actually perpetrate most rapes here.

[Jim Beard]

32. I really hate it that this turn of events have made Trump ..... (Lack of right word)

It is now going to very difficult to explain CONTROLLED immigration and the floods of uncontrolled immigrants. Trump was ready for it, showing that clip of migrants rushing the Moroccan border when he could have used CNN footage of the Syrian & other refugees crashing Hungry s gates and flooding the country.

Sweden and Denmark are also having massive problems.

[frizzled]

33. My theory is that was a deliberate rope-a-dope on Trump's part

Trump does this kind of thing a lot. Everyone thinks he's an idiot, but those "blunders" get talked about.

It's in his interests to fuzz the boundary between "illegal immigrant" and "scary Muslim".

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Xenophobia about immigrants is nothing new.

We've had more that our fair share of it here. From "No Irish Need Apply", to "The Yellow Peril", to internment camps. Now it's evil Muslims, tomorrow it will be horror stories about Andorrans.

[Quantess]

42. Mexicans aren't muslims.

What else can I say?

Middle Eastern muslim refugees and Mexicans are not the same, at all.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. No, they're usually Catholics (EEEK!!).

Like most Italians, Irish, and Portuguese.

Maybe we can finally whittle down our population of REAL Americans to not too scary blue eyed Presbyterians.

[Quantess]

46. Oh whoops it took me too long to edit my reply to you.

I live in Sweden, where we have had a huge influx of asylum seekers / refugees of muslim origin and I stand by my statements. I wish we had more Mexican immigrants into Sweden.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. My gardener is a Mexican. My optometrist is a Palestinian.

The guy who sold me my car is Egyptian..

None of them are prone to rape.

[Quantess]

49. Sigh.... I hope that all of us are sharing this mindset. The issue here is the political cover-up.

European politicians lying and or covering up information, and police actively discouraging young women report sexual assault, is the subject.

Go find another thread that fits your motives better.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. All I'm saying is that individuals commit crimes. Prosecute them.

If the cops, politicians, etc, are covering up crimes, fire them. Regardless of race, ethnicity, or place of birth.

What I'm seeing on this thread and similar ones are people indulging in xenophobia, something I put on the same level as racism and misogyny.

[Quantess]

55. Provide some some examples, then we'll see.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. Examples of what?

[jonno99]

59. "indulging in xenophobia"? - as mentioned elswhere, there is the whole

thing about Sharia - which seems to codify that the status of women is not the same as men. This is not a small thing. If men come from a background where Sharia is the norm, we've got a larger issue to resolve - namely, how to incorporate Sharia into western culture (can it be done? I don't know.).

I don't claim to be an expert on Sharia, so feel free to educate me if what I've heard is incorrect

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. So does Catholicism and other Christian religions.

They've been incorporated into "western culture"...or are they "western culture"? So, has Judaism which has similar misogynistic customs and tenets.

Do most Muslims indulge in rape. Are most Irish alcoholics? Do most Italians belong to the Mafia? Do most Asians eat dogs and cats?

[jonno99]

74. The degree to which Catholicism and other Christian religions suppress the rights

of women is (I'm guessing) an order of magnitude less than does Sharia. More importantly, I haven't seen any serious effort in the US to create court systems that strictly observe only a particular religious text - as does Sharia.

Do most Muslims indulge in rape? No.

The more important question is: Do most Muslims support the idea of Sharia courts?

This needs to be addressed...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

76. I think that's already been decided.

Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[jonno99]

77. Were that it was as simple as that. It is definately not decided. Simply

Google: 'Sharia law in the united states'

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

85. I did.

What I found was a lot of xenophobic RW groups promoting anti-sharia laws.

But, one good article from the NYT. Below is a portion of it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/us/31shariah.html?_r=0

Early versions of the law, which passed in Tennessee and then Louisiana, made no mention of Shariah, which was necessary to pass constitutional muster, Mr. Yerushalmi said. But as the movement spread, state lawmakers began tweaking the legislation to refer to Shariah and other religious laws or systems — including, in one ill-fated proposal in Arizona, “karma.”

By last fall, the anti-Shariah movement had gained new prominence. ACT for America spent $60,000 promoting the Oklahoma initiative, a campaign that included 600,000 robocalls featuring Mr. Woolsey, the former C.I.A. director. Mr. Gingrich called for a federal law banning courts from using Shariah in place of American law, and Sarah Palin warned that if Shariah law “were to be adopted, allowed to govern in our country, it will be the downfall of America.”

Mr. Yerushalmi’s legislation has drawn opposition from the American Civil Liberties Union as well as from Catholic bishops and Jewish groups. Mr. Yerushalmi said he did not believe that court cases involving Jewish or canon law would be affected by the statutes because they are unlikely to involve violations of constitutional rights.

Business lobbyists have also expressed concern about the possible effect of the statutes, as corporations often favor foreign laws in contracts or tort disputes. This is perhaps the only constituency that has had an influence. The three state statutes that have passed — most recently in Arizona — make corporations exempt.

[Jim Beard]

70. No, you are wrong, it is uncontroled MASSIVE migration, not orderly immigration

it is not xenophobia to want orderly immigration.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. Does that apply equally to other races, religions, countries of origin?

What is "controlled" immigration and how does it work?

Will it specify certain groups as unacceptable? Like the Chinese Exclusion Act?

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm

The horrendous treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1800s by federal, state, and local governments, as well as by the public at large, represents a bitter underside to U.S. history. Culminating the federalization of immigration regulation, Congress passed the infamous Chinese exclusion laws barring virtually all immigration of persons of Chinese ancestry and severely punishing Chinese immigrants who violated the harsh laws. Discrimination and violence, often rooted in class conflict as well as racist sympathies, directed at Chinese immigrants already in the United States, particularly in California, fueled passage of the laws. The efforts to exclude future Chinese immigrants from our shores can be seen as linked to the deeply negative attitude toward Chinese persons already in the country.

The Supreme Court emphasized national sovereignty as the rationale for not disturbing the laws excluding the "obnoxious Chinese" from the United States. In the famous Chinese Exclusion Case, the Supreme Court stated that "[t]he power of exclusion of foreigners [is] an incident of sovereignty belonging to the government of the United States, as a part of [[[its] sovereign powers delegated by the Constitution." Similarly, in Fong Yue Ting v. United States, the Court reasoned that "[t]he right of a nation to expel or deport foreigners ... is as absolute and unqualified as the right to prohibit and prevent their entrance into the country."

Congress later extended the Chinese exclusion laws to bar immigration from other Asian nations and to prohibit the immigration of persons of Asian ancestry from any nation. The so-called Gentleman's Agreement between the U.S. and Japanese Governments in 1907-08 greatly restricted immigration from Japan. The Immigration Act of 1917 expanded Chinese exclusion to prohibit immigration from the "Asiatic barred zone." A 1924 law, best known for creating the discriminatory national origins quota system, allowed for the exclusion of noncitizens "ineligible to citizenship," which affected Asian immigrants who as non-whites were prohibited from naturalizing.

The United States

In the United States, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 became the first policy to explicitly prevent “sexual deviates” from entering the country, and it also required the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) to deport these individuals.[3]

The Lavender Scare of the anti-communist 1950’s America created additional persecution of homosexuals and a spirit of fear among people with same-sex attraction. After the war, a "Pervert Elimination Campaign" was initiated in Washington D.C. by the U.S. Park Police. D.C. parks witnessed a number of sex charge arrests of gay men, many of whom subsequently lost their jobs. [4]

The United States military excluded homosexuals until 2011, and proposed that they were unfit for service. The law commonly known as “Don’t ask, don’t tell” allowed LGB people to serve as long as they kept their sexuality hidden. The Obama administration allowed LGB people to serve openly in the military. [5]

[Boudica the Lyoness]

87. Generally speaking, a bloke

wont rape you while examining your eyes or selling you a car. That's been my experience anyway.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

88. Generally speaking a Muslim won't rape you.

And, in England, the chances of being raped by a non-Muslim is probably far higher than by a Muslim.

As an Employee Assistance counselor I dealt with a number of rape/sexual assault victims. None of them mentioned the ethnicity or religion of their attackers.

Do Muslims rape? Yes. Do Christians, Jews, Blacks, Whites, Buddhists, Hindus, Africans, Swedes, or Englishmen? Yes.

I hate stereotypes.

[Quantess]

98. I hate stereotypes just as much as you!

I have met young immigrant males from Afghanistan who are as far as I can tell, great, friendly young guys.

Your attitude suggests that you think the hush-hush sshhhhhh....... response is appropriate.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

106. Especially your eye doctor

while examining your eyes and the man trying to sell you a car!!!!!! That's when YOU see your eye doctor and car salesman right?

And who the fuck mentioned Englishmen?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

109. Because of your icon.

And, Boudica, I'm leaping to a conclusion about YOUR ethnicity.

Yes. I usually see my optometrist when I get my eyes checked. And, I have never been nervous about her raping me. And, though the Egyptian car salesman was friendly and we chatted about his family and life in Egypt he betrayed no inclination to rape me. And, I fully trust my wife is safe from rape when home alone with our Mexican gardener.

What about you? Do you have any foreign friends/acquaintances that you suspect of being rapists because of their ethnicity or religion?

[LittleBlue]

29. Sweden tried to educate immigrants on women, this is what happened

Swedish Police, Accused of Cover-Up, Look Into Reports of Sex Assault at Festival

LONDON — The police in Sweden, responding to accusations of a cover-up, said on Monday that they were investigating why the public had not been informed about sexual assaults by men reported to be migrants at a festival in Stockholm last summer.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/world/europe/swedish-police-coverup-sexual-assault.html

Cameron was called a racist for not taking more immigrants. He will come out of this looking golden while Merkel and the rest of the free immigration crowd look ridiculous.

I'll say it. I told you so.

[frizzled]

31. Yes. UK Labour will collapse if they can't support sensible limits on migration.

Unfortunately the idealistic open-borders lot seem to be in opposition over there, and that will be highly unpopular.

[LittleBlue]

34. They're already in freefall after that last election debacle

With the SNP gutting their party from the inside out and the Tories crushing them elsewhere. Not to mention Corbyn's rise to party leader.

This is just another dagger.

[Denzil_DC]

99. What on earth have the SNP got to do with all this?

They're in favor of controlled immigration (as is the British Labour Party, last I looked), but openly enthusiastic about welcoming refugees.

In fact, here's a souvenir mug from Labour's oh-so-successful 2015 general election campaign. They may have a few left if you order now. Cheers.

[LittleBlue]

100. What are you going on about?

We're discussing Labour and why it's fallen on hard times.

Did you miss the last election or...?

The SNP has recorded a historic landslide general election victory in Scotland, winning 56 out of 59 seats.

Labour has been left with just one MP north of the border, but its Scottish leader Jim Murphy, who lost his seat, said he would continue in his post.

The Liberal Democrats lost 10 seats with only Alistair Carmichael holding on in Orkney and Shetland.

The Conservatives held Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale - the other seat to withstand the SNP tsunami.

The headlines of the night were:

Results across Scotland saw the SNP win 50 seats, Labour lose 40 and the Lib Dems lose 10

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-scotland-32635871

Why did you bother finding a silly picture of a random mug? The Labour leader himself has called for more immigration.

The Labour leadership frontrunner dismissed calls for the party to advocate tougher border controls in an attempt to win back voters angered by the surge in mass migration over the last decade.

And he insisted that rapid population change in local communities was beneficial to youngsters because it helped develop "a very good understanding of the rest of the world".

His message during a live radio debate last night provoked concerns that Labour will continue to back open-door border controls if he is elected as the successor to Ed Miliband.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/600725/Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-migrants-Britain-benefit

Immigration is not a problem in the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has said as he faced questions over why he decided not to mention the issue in his keynote speech to the Labour party conference yesterday.

The Labour leader insisted Britain must instead celebrate the “enormous contribution to our society” that migrants have brought over the years and suggested the UK should look at immigration as “a very great opportunity”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-says-immigration-isnt-a-problem-a6673231.html

[Denzil_DC]

101. No, I didn't miss that election because unlike you, I suspect, I actually live in Scotland.

Immigration wasn't a particular issue in Scotland during the last general election, unlike the rest of the UK, and on the few occasions it came up, the SNP's policies were explicitly more liberal than Labour's. In the context of this thread, I asked you what on earth the SNP had to do with it. You haven't answered that, so forgive me if I think it's you who needs to explain what you're going on about, if anyone.

Alternatively, do please proceed to inform me about what's going on in my own country.

P.S. Clumsily phrased bolded quote of yours there: The SNP gained 50 seats, it won a total of 56 out of 59. While being more liberal on immigration.

[LittleBlue]

103. I know, but your responses have nothing to do with anything I'm saying

It's a fact that SNP wiped out Labour in Scotland. Not even debatable, so what's the problem?

Immigration wasn't a particular issue in Scotland during the last general election, unlike the rest of the UK, and on the few occasions it came up, the SNP's policies were explicitly more liberal than Labour's.

I'm 100% aware that Scotland is more liberal than the rest of the UK.

You really need to reread what I said. I never even remotely implied that Labour lost to SNP because of immigration. I said it was one knife in Labour as they fell.

Your reading issues are not my problem.

[Denzil_DC]

105. And your failure to stick to a point and see it through isn't mine, but here goes anyway ...

(And this will have to do for your other reply below as I'm rapidly losing the will to live.)

You started out in this thread with this (unless you've been doing more editing since):

Cameron was called a racist for not taking more immigrants. He will come out of this looking golden while Merkel and the rest of the free immigration crowd look ridiculous.

To which frizzled replied:

Yes. UK Labour will collapse if they can't support sensible limits on migration.

Unfortunately the idealistic open-borders lot seem to be in opposition over there, and that will be highly unpopular.

You then brought the SNP into it:

They're already in freefall after that last election debacle

With the SNP gutting their party from the inside out and the Tories crushing them elsewhere. Not to mention Corbyn's rise to party leader.

This is just another dagger.

Labour isn't part of your "free immigration crowd," even under Corbyn. The SNP is more liberal in policy, but is also not part of any "free immigration crowd."

Guess who else throws around terms like "free immigration crowd"?

UKIP.

[LittleBlue]

107. You're really going to double down on this rather than admit you made a mistake?

For real? I'm going to have to sit here all night and reply to your blocks of paragraphs to defend myself against a point I never made?

One last time. I brought up SNP because it decimated Labour by replacing them in Scotland. Nowhere did I say anything about SNP relating to immigration or any other issue. Only that it was one factor contributing to Labour's downfall.

Why not just be an honest person and admit you misunderstood my post? This is juvenile.

Labour isn't part of your "free immigration crowd," even under Corbyn. The SNP is more liberal in policy, but is also not part of any "free immigration crowd."

That's like saying Obama's opinions don't affect the rest of the party. They do. He represents them. Corbyn was elected by the party to lead it. His opinions reflect on the party.

Labour has criticised government plans to re-settle 20,000 Syrian refugees in Britain by 2020, saying 4,000 a year is "not enough".

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34183150

They are the pro immigration party here. "Free immigration" is my jab at them. I know they aren't the same as Merkel's party.

[Denzil_DC]

108. Heh. "Blocks of paragraphs" after your belated copy/paste spree above. Love it.

Looky:

Nowhere did I say anything about SNP relating to immigration or any other issue. Only that it was one factor contributing to Labour's downfall.

Forgive me if two consecutive sentences like that in the context of your remarks that prefaced them don't give the impression that you are linking the two issues.

Labour would have still lost the general election even if it had won every single one of Scotland's 59 seats. Look it up and do the math. So it's hard to see how the SNP's gains contributed to Labour's "downfall." They were irrelevant. The Tories won an outright - albeit relatively slim - majority over the rest of the parties combined, otherwise they might well not be in power.

[Denzil_DC]

111. If you're going to keep extensively editing posts like this, we could indeed be here all night ...

... as it's going to be very difficult to keep up with the shifting sands of your additions.

I think I've managed to detect, ooh I don't know, some areas where things that President Obama wants in terms of policy haven't been supported by the Democrats in Congress, and even where certain House and Senate members have sought to distance themselves from him. Or maybe I dreamt that. Guantanamo? Nah. Must have been snoozing.

Likewise, and even more so, Corbyn is far from supported by the bulk of the Parliamentary Labour Party, in fact barely so by quite a number in his own cabinet.

That lack of coherence has more impact on Labour's current ills than any hard and fast policy initiatives.

Do some research on the refugee program in the UK. It's a completely separate issue from the European Union's open borders policy and economic migrancy, which is what's preoccupied so much of the debate in the UK and led to the rise of UKIP and excited the xenophobic Tory right.

The UK refugee program is highly regulated, and subject to constant scrutiny, not least by our media, who salivate at the thought there might be cockups and scandals to fill their pages and airtime.

I think the UK could indeed comfortably accommodate more that the 4,000 a year target into its population of 64 million. I'd argue that we have a moral duty to do more because of our responsibility for stirring up successive hornets' nests in the Middle East for fun and profit. But it has to be done right and adapt to any problems that emerge, for the sake of the refugees - the ones we've taken in so far have been through a hell of an ordeal already and spent long periods in refugee camps with their families, which is one reason why they were selected - as much as anyone else.

FWIW, I felt from the outset that Merkel's ambitious targets were headed for problems, in social cohesion terms let alone anything else, knowing a little about Germany's long-term issues with Gastarbeiter.

[Denzil_DC]

102. OK. You've now edited your post extensively, so let's address your additions.

Why did you bother finding a silly picture of a random mug? The Labour leader himself has called for more immigration.

That "silly picture of a random mug" was part of Labour's 2015 election campaign under Ed Miliband. It embodied "pledge no. 4" in their series of election promises.

The quotes you follow that remark with are from Jeremy Corbyn, who succeeded Ed Milliband - who lost the election despite "pledge no. 4" - and has yet to have his policies ratified by the Labour Party, let alone tested in a general election.

But again, do feel free to inform me what's going on in my own country. It's been interesting so far.

[LittleBlue]

104. What does this have anything to do with what I said?

Go reread what I said and point out where I claimed anything remotely close to what you're implying.

With the SNP gutting their party from the inside out and the Tories crushing them elsewhere. Not to mention Corbyn's rise to party leader.

This is just another dagger.

Please find for me where I conflate the separate SNP and immigration issue. It's obvious that I'm claiming they are separate issues. Thanks.

[PeteSelman]

39. I don't see how it applies here.

Europeans are too cowed to fight back. Here? You'll get your ass shot if you try that shit.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

41. So, if an action leads to a refugee getting their ass shot, isn't the damange to the...

...woman already done at that point?

[PeteSelman]

47. You can't just shoot them before they do anything.

I just don't see it happening here at all due to the threat of fighting back.

Nobody defends the Europeans, not the cops, not the government. There's defense here.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

40. The stupid right wing never said a goddamned thing about groping. So, there is no...

...I told you so.

Their objections were completely driven by racism and bigotry and hate, not because they're afraid refugees will grope/rape our women.

With that being said, however, we don't need people coming here who do not respect our laws, our culture, or without respect for our women. Period.

[get the red out]

45. I agree

There has to be real discussion.

[Oneironaut]

61. I supported the immigrants 100%. I was wrong and am disappointed.

I wanted to believe they could join European societies and be functioning citizens. While I don't think immigration should be banned from these countries, the vetting process needs to be strict. European is now rife with criminals, rapists, and terrorists. The right-wing blowback is going to be severe and ugly.

[treestar]

67. that's because they like holding a group responsible

for the actions of some individuals in that group. Except for white people. They aren't responsible for bad white people.

[davidn3600]

78. A group that comes from a part of the world where women are treated very poorly

So when that group goes into Europe, what do you think is going to happen?

I mean it's common sense. Is every single migrant a problem? Of course not. But when you have an open-door policy with virtually no screening (Germany), then you are going to let in a lot of troublemakers, radicals, criminals, and even terrorists.

What happened on New Years Eve is going to happen again.

[treestar]

86. Any group of men could do a thing like that

That just happened to be a bunch of Muslims "turn". They could keep all refugees out and still have those things happen. White men do this and are capable of it. There are refugees who truly are fleeing and would never do a thing like this. They should not be presumed guilty of what their fellows did.

[B2G]

89. Yet officials are saying it's never happened before.

White men gather by the hundreds to assault women? When did this happen?

[frizzled]

90. So are you saying it's a massive coincidence they almost all came from one minority culture?

Or what?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

82. yes, this is true. this is why there will be repercussions for millions for the acts of

a hundred or so people.

[Jim Beard]

73. For all the doubters that think it is race

you can not get any more liberal than Sweden and Denmark and they have both closed their borders.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

80. the reality is that in this instance they were right, and what happened is shitty

and the fact that it happened will have repercussions.

when a stereotype is confirmed, it just amplifies the stereotype and in this case it was confirmed.

the whole thing is shitty.

[Xyzse]

96. -SIGH- I am getting this from my mother...

She asked me about this, and I told her to please don't lump all of a group together.

Then she went off asking "What's wrong with you?"

I just had to shrug it off, too tired to argue.