UTTERLY REVOLTING! Military Dumped Hundreds Of Dead Troops In Landfills During Bush Presidency

[BigBearJohn]

Oh yes, THIS is a fine example of the kind of respect the Republicans show our dear soldiers in the military -- NOT

This story has been out for a few years now, but it’s hardly made a blip in the mainstream media landscape. While Republicans have had a non-stop stream of rants about how President Obama doesn’t care about the troops, a dirty little secret is haunting the era known as the George W. Bush administration.

We’ve known since the start of the two Bush wars that there was a media blackout. Unlike Vietnam before it, the media was not allowed to show the hundreds and thousands of body bags being flown from the Middle East. That blackout could be why it went unnoticed for several years that they were regularly incinerating and throwing the bodies of our troops into a Virginia landfill.

The Washington Post picked up the story in 2011, but odds are that most still aren’t aware that at least 274 troops were treated like last night’s chicken bones. Naturally, the families did not know about the dumping. Instead, they were under the impression that their loved ones would be disposed of in a “respectful and dignified manner.”

VIDEO:

http://news.groopspeak.com/military-dumped-hundreds-of-dead-troops-in-landfills-during-bush-presidency-video/

[EdwardBernays]

1. If Americans cared about the troops they would

- pay more attention to foreign policy
- be less gung ho when it comes to war
- redistribute some of the runaway military spending cash to veterans
- stop electing hawks
- demand a return of the draft
- take the time to learn the history of US foreign policy

[djean111]

3. A return of the draft, IMO, will just give the MIC more bodies to fling at things.

Won't stop anything. They will just have cheaper cannon fodder.

[EdwardBernays]

5. No

Right now the vast vast majority of people have no skin in the game so "troops" are an abstract concept.

If their kids start being called up they'll be forced to give a shit.

[djean111]

6. Washington has not listened to the "vast majority of people" for many years.

And the police have been armed and trained to quash any demonstrations.
The MIC will protect itself, and most of the politicians will fall in line.
Voting? have kids killed for nothing for years, until, magically, things change in Washington?
I believe that now mass demonstrations are viewed as opportunities to use tear gas and worse, and will be called domestic terrorism.
How do you think, seriously, people "giving a shit" would change things? And how long would that take to have any effect whatsoever? I repeat - a draft would just give the MIC more cannon fodder. I don't even think more bodies would get the same food and equipment support as they have now. The MIC slashes that part of the budget.

[EdwardBernays]

7. And your alternative plan?

What is it?

Because apathy is certainly not accomplishing anything?

Saying that I moved away to Europe, and probably won't ever come back. And would discourage my kids strongly from moving there.

I just feel that Americans are scared and apathetic. They feel powerless. And that's part of what people in power want you to feel: powerless.

So maybe if war was something that affected everyone people would fight their fears and demand real change.

Love to hear alternative ideas though.

[djean111]

10. My alternative plan is in place - no draft, and voting for politicans who are against pointless

wars.

How nice to advocate other peoples' kids die in order to prove some sort of point - did you want an armed and bloody insurrection? Something to watch on TV? - but ensure your kids are safe.

[EdwardBernays]

16. I think

If you look at my plan it's goal is too STOP pointless wars. Not to start more of them.

Basically the US has almost no one they should be attacking militarily. But we have troops and bases in dozens of countries. We're bombing civilians and starving millions of kids right now in Yemen, which has lovely side effect of helping ISIS and al Qaeda in Yemen, and 90% of Americans don't know about it.

I took my family away from America because America is a fucked up place. Well that's part of the reason. Many Americans I've spoken to wish they could follow suit.

The American military is either a law unto itself or not. If it is it can either be stopped or it can't.

I believe it's not above the law and CAN be stopped but only if Americans know what's happening and CARE about it.

Now it's all ignorance and apathy. And the coming wars will kill many more because of Americans ignorance and apathy.

[djean111]

19. Removing your family from danger - great idea, not available to everyone - and then advocating for

the pointless death of other Americans' kids seems a bit cowardly.

Also, you should, perhaps, omit the "we" from your statements. None of this would affect you or your family, it seems. You would just be watching it on TV, not be part of any process or uprising.

And, again, the draft would just give the MIC more fodder, and most of the politicians we currently have, for the most part, been cowed or paid by the MIC. Again - are you advocating for more American deaths, and some sort of bloody uprising? Because that is what would happen. The police have not been given battle gear and training for nothing.

[EdwardBernays]

26. Sorry but chill out

A) I still deeply care about America, and
B) I still have tonnes of family and friends there.

I advocted the same when I lived there as well.

So chill.

I am also not and never have advocated for any sort of uprising. That's just something you've made up.

What I have advocated is a system that creates personal accountability and forces people to be engaged. It's great that you care so deeply about Americans, but what about all the civilians America kills? I care about them as well.

As long as the majority of Americans can suppot a war with no consequences to themselves or their families America will continue to have unnecessary wars and wars of aggression which damage it and kill many innocent people around the world.

[stone space]

46. Japanese Americans were interned by folks who claimed to "care about America".

But the internment camps didn't make America any safer.

[EdwardBernays]

48. ????

Yes.....?

And.

[stone space]

49. Claiming to care about America does not justify...

...the mass incarceration of entire groups simply because you disagree with us.

Pacifists have human rights, too.

[Hortensis]

113. Completely agree with Edward and BigBear.

This heartless disrespect for the bodies of Americans who gave their all is unbelievably despicable. Notably, it was committed by the GOP leadership, the very people who are so eager to start profitable wars and find it so useful to trumpet their patriotic reverence for "our boys."

Make no mikes: The GOP leadership committed these crimes. And these depraved acts are a pale reflection of how permanently injured soldiers who can no longer serve were railroaded out of the service with as few benefits as military legal experts against usually clueless young patients could manage. Then, of course, there are the decades of lowering taxes and "cutting the waste" while vets in trouble often went without the support they needed and had absolutely earned a right to.

"
As long as the majority of Americans can suppot a war with no consequences to themselves or their families America will continue to have unnecessary wars and wars of aggression which damage it and kill many innocent people around the world." Absolutely. Not only do I support mandatory service by draft whenever we want to "war," I'd like to restructure the age priorities. We should not be sending adolescents in their teens and twenties into danger when we can be sending mature adults in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.

[padfun]

55. Would you volunteer your kids if the USA has a draft?

I was in the draft. I am a Vietnam Vet.

Drafts don't stop pols from wars. They just add to the casualties. We fought the draft back then. I will fight against a draft if they try.

Especially drafts recommended by a foreigner.

[EdwardBernays]

60. Jeez

I'm not a "foreigner". WTF?

As for the draft, why did Nixon end the draft?

"Nixon thought ending the draft could be an effective political weapon against the burgeoning anti-war movement. He believed middle-class youths would lose interest in protesting the war once it became clear that they would not have to fight, and possibly die, in Vietnam."

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/01/us-military-draft-ends-jan-27-1973-072085#ixzz3xKERTjQi

And he was right.

Ending the draft gives our leaders the right mix of disconnected patriotism and apathy to allow leaders to endlessly launch wars.

Like I said earlier, how is apathy and a volunteer army stopping the US military from starving millions of kids in Yemen?

Why must the rest of the world deal with the consequences of US stupidity and arrogance?

Americans are en masse self-obseesed. They literally don't have a clue what their military is doing in their name around the world, generally speaking. And while it's fine for you to have the US military kill thousands of civilians a decade it's not so great for its of other countries.

And eventually as you know killing civilians has consequences.

[stone space]

69. My daughters are not for sale. And I will not allow you to kill them with your damn draft.

And eventually as you know killing civilians has consequences.

[EdwardBernays]

72. but you have no problem

with the US military killing thousands of women and children around the world?

Got any plans on how to stop that from continuing?

See, the thing is, Americans are responsible for their countries foreign policy, even if they don't know what it is.

There has to be a way to get Americans to stop killing civilians, or staving millions, when it suits them...

It's pretty sad that the idea of the draft has freaked people out so much, but the fact that the government is actually killing civilians right now, just because our ally wants us to... that barely warrants acknowledging...

And that is EXACTLY why the draft would work... all Americans would be FORCED to again be anti-war...

And like Nixon knew:

"...ending the draft could be an effective political weapon against the burgeoning anti-war movement. He believed middle-class youths would lose interest in protesting the war once it became clear that they would not have to fight, and possibly die, in Vietnam..."

Americans only give a shit about war when it's their families... sadly the families the US has killed for decades can't be so casual about the US wars.

[stone space]

73. WTF are you babbling about?

but you have no problem with the US military killing thousands of women and children around the world?

Where do you get bullshit like this?

[EdwardBernays]

75. It's not BS

I see it every day.

Americans don't have a clue what their military is up to, you aren't bothered to care unless it's about you...

That's the American way... And that's pretty much what the rest of the world thinks about Americans.. ignorant, self-obsessed and frankly dangerous...

Every time I post something about Yemen people - those that bother to care enough to read it - scratch their head and act surprised, and resigned... oh well, nothing we can do about killing all of those people...

There is of course, but you know, why sacrifice when we don't have to... let someone else do that.

Americans know so so little about their own history or foreign policy, because the ACTIVELY CHOOSE TO REMAIN IGNORANT. Somewhere they know that someone is probably being killed by some drone somewhere, or that we probably did some bad stuff at some point, but that's all they WANT to know...

I swear, I've had a larger response to the idea - just the notion - that the draft be reinstated - than the fact that we're starving 2,000,000 in Yemen.

Why do you think that is?

Because, again:

"Nixon thought ending the draft could be an effective political weapon against the burgeoning anti-war movement. He believed middle-class youths would lose interest in protesting the war once it became clear that they would not have to fight, and possibly die, in Vietnam."


There will never be an effective anti-war movement as long as the main reaction to US military activity is apathy...

And it's clear to me now that the draft will never be reinstated, and therefore americans will continue to kill innocent women and children around the planet, unchecked...

[stone space]

77. My daughters are not for sale.

Fight your own damn wars!

[EdwardBernays]

79. you've utterly missed the point

and obviously do not care about what the US is doing to other people's daughters all over the world...

oh well...

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. You tried

Last edited Fri Jan 15, 2016, 06:02 PM - Edit history (1)

And I am a wife of a retired chief. And you know what? We are aware of us foreign policy and a growing number of retired vets agree. Americans need a damn draft to wake up

[EdwardBernays]

82. Thanks

It's so hard to get people to see the problem for what it is.

I appreciate you saying that though ☺

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Maybe after a few blowback events

Oh never mind... Too self absorbed.

[EdwardBernays]

87. When that happens

The fear takes over and people just do what they're told.

Looks at how popular invading Iraq was.

72% of people supported it. And that includes a LOT of people on DU.

People have almost zero idea about how and how frequently they're manipulated.

I don't know if you know who I'm named after here on DU? He was the nephew of Sigmund Freud and literally the guy who invented PR.

He was hired by the US government to create propaganda to convince Americans to enlist in the military in WW1.

He also created the PR campaign that convinced women to take up smoking.

Anyway.

People just don't see how badly they're screwing up their counties future. It's sad.

And yes conversations like this make me extremely happy that I live in Ireland now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. I know who you are named for

And that actually part of the problem. After the attack on Pearl the military had to turn away volunteers. I expected the same. Hell, I talked to recruiters, and they were willing to ahem ignore a lot of things, well except my husband was active duty, and deployed. It would have gotten weird.

So I asked the recruiter out of curiosity. I mean zero line ok. This is a few days after. He got me, and a B-17 pilot. Well, this was after the keep shopping comment from Junior.

Think about that for a second and Nixon's comment.mind you, that old war pilot and me were not volunteering without knowledge. And as I said, hubby was active duty.

It is things like that, and the abuse of the force, and attempted back door draft, that have convinced many vets of the current adventures that Americans will not wake up until their kids are in formation at boot camp. And do not get me started with family who has never served but shit, no issue whatsoever if other kids go to the meat grinder.

Oh and the brass opposes a draft, of course they do.

[stone space]

84. Why are you lying about me?

and obviously do not care about what the US is doing to other people's daughters all over the world...

I don't understand your motivation for doing so.

[EdwardBernays]

89. I'm not

You literally do not care.

You might think about it now and again but you don't care.

There's only one way to get the endless murder of innocent civilians to stop, and that's for the population of the country to know what's going on and actively try and stop it.

And the surest way to do that is to make these wars - that they can now ignore - become unignoreable.

If your daughter was going to be drafted to go fight the Saudi's war in Yemen you'd be doing a lot more about stopping that war and making sure everyone knew about those injustices then you are now. So would everyone who could potentially be affected.

There's no other way to get Americans to care aside from making them be directly involved.

No one anywhere wants their kids to go to war. Right now it's just a bunch of poor kids trying to raise money for school... The only people that care about them are their families.

And yet. They're off in foreign countries murdering civilians. Literally the US is being warned by the UN that the US might face war crimes prosecution. And you know who we're helping in Yemen?

Literally ISIS and al Qaeda.

Killing civilians committing war crimes and helping fucking ISIS.

And you have absolutely no plan to spread the word. No counter suggestions on how to stop this endless behaviour.

All you can see is your kid. And it makes you emotional and upset.

Multiply that by 100 million people. That's what the draft would do.

Let the jails fill up with people who won't go.

Force politicians to explain to parents what is worth committing war crimes for in Yemen. In South America. In Iran.

Right now, like Nixon predicted: it's only the poor that fight. And by removing the draft the antiwar movement will end.

It's true.

And as long people can only think of what's in front of their face and not care about anything else it will remain true.

Would I go to jail to protest US war crimes in Yemen rather than fight and kill civilians? Yes. Would I support my children if they did the same? Damn straight.

But to just say it's not worth the sacrifice, while you let the poor of this country do politicians dirty work... Put them in a position where they have to choose money or murder.

It Means you don't care. It's obvious most Americans don't. They haven't cared for decades. The rest of the world doesn't have that option.

[stone space]

90. Why don't you go and fight the Saudi's war in Yemen, if you love war so much?

If your daughter was going to be drafted to go fight the Saudi's war in Yemen

Nobody's stopping you.

That seems better than kidnapping folks to do your dirty work for you.

[EdwardBernays]

91. you couldn't miss the point more

if you tried... it's really astonishing.

[stone space]

92. You want war, but you want our daughters to fight it for you.

Fuck that right wing militaristic macho bullshit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Nope

He does not want war. And you and your friend, like my brother, keep missing the point by not just miles, but I think astronomical units, maybe, just maybe, light years

[stone space]

95. You haven't been paying attention. (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. I read the full thread

Last edited Fri Jan 15, 2016, 07:30 PM - Edit history (1)

And the only way you will start pay for attention to US foreign policy is when you got skin in the game. Been there, done that, I pay fucking attention

[stone space]

101. Why are you lying?

And the only way you will start pay for attention to US foreign policy is when you got skin in the game.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. I am

Not lying. But I have had the same fucking conversations with family.

I agree with Barnays. In general Americans are too self absorbed. Why keep shopping was so popular.

[EdwardBernays]

97. I'm suspecting

he's deliberately missing the point... I had a bit of that happen earlier today... someone went WAAAAY out of their way to lie about something... once they were busted they just disappeared...

crazy place this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. It can be

[stone space]

109. He may not want war for himself, but like so many chickenhawks, he wants...

...to force his wars on others, even to the extent of resorting to state sponsored kidnapping.

And he seems to get upset when those who he wishes to force his wars on don't comply.

His hatred for pacifists is clear as well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. And you my "friend" keep misrepresenting

What he is saying.

So let me repeat it for you, until Americans start paying attention to actions by your and my government and start demanding fundamental change, we are going to continue to be at war. Americans are too self fucking absorbed to do this without the added pressure of a draft.

If Americans did not need that lovely motivator to fucking pay attention to North Africa, Latin Anerica, the Middle East, et al, he and I would not even raise the dreaded D word.

When people go, fuck it, they volunteered, when referring to active duty ignores that there is a draft in place. It is an economic draft. But you are ok with that because shit, your daughters will not be touched by it, you hope.

[stone space]

114. What is so great about murdering people half-way around the world?

And why should pacifists (or anybody, for that matter) allow you to force us to fight your wars for you?

Are you too cowardly to murder folks on your own?

Do you need my daughters to do your dirty work for you?

That's a true war on women, and women who had absolutely nothing to do with your filthy disgusting wars.

Fuck militarism!

Fuck war!

Fuck military slavery!

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. Nice talking points

What the fuck have you done to stop wars? Because I am far from impressed with you.

And I see you missed the fact that we have a draft in place, one that will never (you hope) touch your kids.

So tell me, where exactly did I say I approve of killing people half way around the world. Nowhere. But I am betting I know why we will get some lovely blowback from our actions around the world. Do you want specifics? Some don't even involved drones or soldiers (CAFTA and NAFTA come to mind). I will leave you alone to try to figure it out. To do that you first need to know how these have affected the country side and killed people without one US boot in place to boot.

[stone space]

117. Who exactly do you want my daughters to murder?

And why?

So tell me, where exactly did I say I approve of killing people half way around the world. Nowhere.

Because that's exactly what you are talking about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. Why do you want the kids down in East San Diego

To murder so your daughters and you can remain ignorant of the world? Or for that matter Baltimore, south East LA or for that mater the urban rural south?

Because you seem to be fully unaware.

[stone space]

119. WTF does this mean? Who the fuck are you talking about?

Why do you want the kids down in East San Diego To murder so your daughters and you can remain ignorant of the world? Or for that matter Baltimore, south East LA or for that mater the urban rural south?

Why would you say that I want somebody to murder my daughters?

Are you insane?

I've lived in Baltimore.

Who exactly are you talking about?

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. It is about your daughters

But you keep telling us we want to kill them nope, we don't. I don't want them to leave their middle class protected and sheltered lives. . But you are incapable of comprehending we have a draft, a poverty draft. For that matter answering how our foreign policy has killed people without firing one bullet in oh El Salvador for example in the last ten years.

So why should other kids kill and be killed to spare your daughters? You are about stopping wars you tell me. Well com'on, tell me what the fuck do you know about the effect of CAFTA in the rural areas of oh El Salvador, let's forget about the rest of Central America here? Hell, we had a bunch of kids come across the border last summer. Did you do the minimum effort to read why? Or the fact that we are starting to send them back? Never mind they qualify as war refugees? I am guessing that is a fat fuckng NO. And this is what we both mean about being self centered.

Congrats. You are the stereotype we are talking about.

[stone space]

124. Why do you keep lying?

But you are incapable of comprehending we have a draft, a poverty draft.

What is your motivation for such disgusting lies?

You are the one who wants to throw them in jail if they don't murder at your bidding.

I support their fundamental human and civil right not to murder others at your command.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. Nobody is lying here except you

And if you are trying to get a rise of me by doing that shit, forget about it.

[stone space]

129. I'm opposed to a draft, whether by poverty or by out and out kidnapping.

You, on the other hand, want to see folks thrown in jail if they won't murder for you.

That's disgusting!

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. Please quote me saying that

Chapter and verse.

Not just do I challenge you but I will wait for an eternity for you to produce that quote

And with that. I know how far you are willing to lie.

I suppose I will also wait for an eternity for you to pay attention to US policy that may produce (again) the blowback that saw 911.

Now go on, do whistle past history

[Enthusiast]

136. Thank you!

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. You welcome

[haikugal]

151. Thank you Nadin, an economic draft is exactly what we have.

One way or another the poor always fight and die and are maimed in our wars. They learned from
Vietnam how to control the population and it's used everyday. This is why a draft would put an end to much of what is done in our name...a draft and a working economy.

This OP brings attention to something horrendous and unknown to me. I thank you OP for that. What a horrible story!

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. It was

And I was thinking of another horror about the Genocides around the world.

[EdwardBernays]

94. no

literally I think you're just trolling now...

It's the exact opposite of what I've said, repeatedly...

madness.

[stone space]

96. Then you'll leave my daughters alone? (nt)

[EdwardBernays]

99. this conversation...

is a prison...

seriously, you've missed every point put to you... and now you want me to explain it all again?

At the very least you can sleep well because I am not the king of America... your daughter is safe...

[stone space]

100. Not like any prison I've ever been in.

this conversation...is a prison...

Which prison are you referring to?

This is just a website, not a prison.

[EdwardBernays]

103. Sigh

I'm pretty sure you're just arguing to argue.

[stone space]

108. sigh

[stone space]

122. You lie.

but you have no problem with the US military killing thousands of women and children around the world?

Why?

[MillennialDem]

121. Your daughters politics are their own. Even if you supported the draft (I know you don't), you

should have to go, not your kids (unless they also support the draft).

[stone space]

125. I agree. (nt)

[KingCharlemagne]

63. The North used a draft during the US Civil War. Would you

have opposed a draft in a war to end slavery???

Likewise, The US had a draft during World War II. Would you have opposed a draft for a war to smash fascism???

[MillennialDem]

120. No, if you support the draft, YOU GO. Not your kids. Your kids have NOTHING to do with

your position on the draft (and may even be estranged). The next time someone suggests the draft, you suggest THEY GO. Even if they're 90.

[Kalidurga]

133. My plan is if we have a draft to make it so that for every 10,000 civilian draftees...

That a member of congress gets drafted along with them. I don't care how old he or she is, that congress person goes off to war with the troops. A replacement for that congress person will be appointed by that congress person of course.

[EdwardBernays]

142. That's great!

I'd support that.

I'd also suggest that there be absolutely nothing but medical deferments. To make sure that the wealthy elites can't just buy their kids freedom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. I have one PARTIAL

you are in college, especially third or fourth year. Here is your choice, JOIN NOW, or finish ROTC, we will need officers. And those ROTC cadets, unless they have a mision critical skill, like medical or cyber security, off to the infantry you go. And medical deferments, we can always have people fill desks back home, cause you know, we will have an epidemic of flat feet.

While I do not like the idea of a draft, I have thought it though, how a democratic society does one.

[haikugal]

153. Exactly, a lot of medical deferments can fill positions other than combat.

No 5 deferment Cheney's or Limbaughs with sore butts...fuckers!!

[Sanity Claws]

32. I disagree

The lesson the Republicans learned from Vietnam was to end the draft. There was mass disobedience and disruptions because of the draft. The older generation at that time did not feel the same way about the draft that young people did because they had served in WW 2 and Korea. These days the older generation would join in the civil disobedience. It would reach an unprecedented level.

[Enthusiast]

135. I'm with EdwardBernays. The worst of the profiteering started with the contractors.

Last edited Sat Jan 16, 2016, 06:12 AM - Edit history (1)

If the nation is truly under a threat great enough to wage war over, it is a great enough threat to warrant a draft.

Think Isis would be draft worthy? Me either.

[newfie11]

44. That's exactly right

I remember Vietnam and the rich didn't go, they got college deferments, or jobs that kept them safe from combat.

No DRAFT!!!!

[stone space]

30. How does the mass incarrceration of Pacifists prevent war?

- demand a return of the draft

Pacifists are NOT the enemy.

[EdwardBernays]

33. How exactly

Is your pacifism stopping Yemeni from being killed and starved right now?

How did it stop 10s of thousands of Iraqis from being killed?

How did it stop tens of thousands of Iran's being killed?

The US has engaged in endless war and covert war for decades and so far ignorance and apathy are what's left of the majority of Americans attitudes toward it's foreign policy.

I see no evidence that us pacifists are doing anything except allowing other people to kill mostly civilians in their name and with their tax money around the world.

I get not wanting to die, or have your children die. I do. But right now Americans just do not care about the US foreign policy and are absolutely content to ignore the horrible things it's government does around the world.

[stone space]

35. I don't understand. Why do you want to jail us?

How did we become the object of your Hate?

We are human beings, just like everybody else.

[EdwardBernays]

38. Calm down

No one hated you. Lol. So much drama.

I just think your plan has no record of working, and is currently failing to do anything but protect yourself from military service.

Which is fine. I hear ya. Who wants to die for whatever nonsense America is fighting for this week. But as a plan to help troops it's relatively nonsensical.

[stone space]

39. You advocate the mass incarceration of Pacifists.

Don't tell is to calm down.

It is not your place to do so.

[EdwardBernays]

42. I never advocated thst

What I advocated was the draft.

Right now you don't have to take any side to avoid the military and support a war.

You can ignore it as a militaristic dick and as a pacifist.

A draft stops all of that.

Besides. Are you saying you wouldn't go to jail for your belief in pacifism?

This sort of cake and eat it too nonsense you are supporting is exactly how the US can starve millions of people in Yemen without its citizens even knowing.

And if you freak and tell me I hate you and every pacifist and want to lock up every pacifist you've obviously gotten a bit over excited and need to calm down.

I am not being aggressive towards you and indeed support your pacifism... What I don't support is a country full of ignorant any d apathetic war mongers killing endless civilians with no end in sight. And that's what's happening now.

Your position doesn't change that and it doesn't help the troops. Consider the children being starved to death by the US in Yemen and ask yourself how your pacifism is helping them.

[stone space]

43. Advocating the mass incarceration of any group is likely to be percieved...

...as a form of aggression by that group.

I am not being aggressive towards you

[EdwardBernays]

45. Like I said

I never advocated that.

But whatever you need to keep up your anger, have at it.

[Duckhunter935]

54. he does indeed do that

[stone space]

68. Yes you did.

I never advocated that.

Don't pretend like you don't know what a draft is and how it operates.

[Hortensis]

115. Thanks for fighting the good fight, Edward.

If even one person goes away thinking, it is a worthy deed for the day.

[stone space]

126. Not sure who this is directed to.

Addressed to me, but I'm not Edward.

[Duckhunter935]

53. he has a history of starting new threads

Complaining about poster he disagrees with

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027531114

[MADem]

2. FIVE YEARS OLD!!!!!!! Why are you recycling this ANCIENT STORY??????

I mean, if we're going to get all "ALL CAPS!" and EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!! about something that was publicized back when LEON PANETTA WAS SECDEF!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is NOT a "dirty little secret" -- there was a Congressional INVESTIGATION (!!!!!!!!!!) into it. It was WELL COVERED --here at DU and across the web, in actual fact.



There's lots to be upset about in this world--this is not one of those things. This HAS been addressed, (Thanks, Obama), corrective action has been taken (Thanks, Obama) and DOVER isn't seeing the traffic that it did under BUSHCO, anyway (yeah...THANKS, OBAMA!!!).

[hobbit709]

4. Some things NEED to be repeatedly brought up lest the world forget.

[MADem]

21. No they don't. When you repeat the same thing, over and over again, it becomes normal.

There is just no real reason to recycle this story, especially when there's no shortage of news today...didn't anyone watch the GOP debates? There's fodder for days, there.

The more you discuss this resolved story which happened a decade ago and was aired in Congress a half a decade ago, under a different SECDEF, too, the more these sorts of things become "the norm."


That's the effect this kind of repetition has--the exact opposite of the out-of-sync outrage the thread starter is trying to drum up (for reasons that escape me).

Obama resolved this. He took corrective action. What more is there to say?


I think it's amazing how this is all being touted as a "secret" when major national papers have done full page spreads on the redemptive efforts by Dover.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/24/dover-mortuary-works-to-redeem-itself-after-scandal/2451315/

The three supervisors who retaliated against the four workers were reprimanded, and the Air Force adopted several changes suggested by an independent Pentagon review, chaired by retired Army Gen. John Abizaid.

The Port Mortuary's practice was that remains that were either unidentified or were subsequently discovered but families said they didn't want to know about were cremated, then incinerated and disposed of as medical waste. The contractor taking them to a Virginia landfill wasn't informed about the content, investigators found.

Landfill story

The press, Devillier said, conflated the landfill story with that of the mishandled remains.

"The press is often factually accurate but contextually inaccurate," Devillier said. "And that landfill thing is contextually inaccurate. But it was tied together with the things that happened here at the Port Mortuary because of the whistleblowers.

"They're two separate issues. They are two separate issues. They are not related at all. But they came out at the same time," he said.

The remains that ended up in a landfill weren't body parts, Devillier contends.

"We would cremate those remains, those remains would then be incinerated, and the incineration would leave a little bit of dust," Devillier said. "And that little bit of dust would go into a biowaste bag. And that's what went into a landfill."

[Katashi_itto]

8. As a vet, it seems to me, you may want you shove it under the rug. But it bears constant repeating

[MADem]

15. As a retired vet, it seems to me, that my Commander in Chief addressed

and resolved this matter with alacrity and thoroughness. It was addressed to the public of the United States of America in CONGRESSIONAL hearings that were aired to America on CSPAN and were covered on the nightly news programs.

I find this thread and this attempt to gin up outrage weird in the extreme. We DISCUSSED this five years ago. It's not news. Shall we dig up Nixon's Watergate excesses and go all poutrage-y about those, too?

This belongs in a HISTORY thread--it's not current events.

And, as I said "Thanks Obama" -- he resolved it.

[hobbit709]

25. Funny how you sound so much like my former CO.

He didn't want anything discussed either.

with about the same results with me.

[MADem]

27. Oh gee--an insult! Aren't you a charmer.

No wonder you and your old CO didn't get along.



This isn't about "discussing" anything. It's recycling at best--and absent any reference to today's news, as well.

[hobbit709]

29. I didn't get along with him because at his first Commander's Call

He stood there and said "He would sacrifice his wife and kids to further his career"
I looked at him and I looked at my 3 stripes and said "Fuck this shit"
THAT's what started it between us.

[MADem]

31. Well, I've never said such a thing, so I can't imagine why you would so rudely

compare me to this person.

I happen to be a very family-oriented individual, and I've done my share of telling the truth to people with more rank than myself during a long career. In an odd way--perhaps because I know how to tell someone to shove off in such a way that they think they're going on a pleasure cruise--my frankness has stood me in good stead. I got at least two duty assignments out of it, that were hard work/great location gigs.

[Enthusiast]

137. Huge +1!

[Katashi_itto]

34. And you seem to want to keep shoving it under the rug.

[MADem]

36. No more than I want to keep shoving "Watergate" under the rug.

This is a history lecture, not something we should get all poutraged about "Right effing now."

And that is how the OP presents it.

[Katashi_itto]

41. Consider how one of our candidate would love to have us in another war I think it's worth repeating.

[MADem]

47. Really? This arcane, down-the-line result of the Bush regime

is a string you deem worthy of pulling? And you believe it will resonate?

You do know Sanders has never met a drone--or an F-35--he doesn't like.

For someone who votes against wars, he sure authorized funding for them. Over and over and over again. And during that time, he learned to love Lockheed Martin.

Don't be so sure he'd be hammering those swords into plowshares if American interests in the Middle East were threatened.

[Katashi_itto]

51. Whatever you say.

Hell will freeze over before I vote Hillary.

[haikugal]

155. Yes, indeed! Many things need to be brought up repeatedly.

[BigBearJohn]

9. Bush nearly destroyed this country 8 years ago and that needs repeating as well.

People need to be reminded!!! The Republicans are constantly disseminating how much they care about the military. We need to remind the public just how much they don't care.

[MADem]

13. No, they don't need to be reminded. We spent eight years

under BushCo waving the flag and faux - thanking the troops while ignoring the VA and letting it get into a disastrous state.

Let's try worrying about the living who need care, for a change, instead of recycling this resolved story.

[Enthusiast]

138. There have not been nearly enough reminders.

[haikugal]

156. No, there hasn't...

Thanks for this post!

[Enthusiast]

163. ...

[thesquanderer]

57. The story at the link was actually posted today.

And the very first sentence (which the poster here included), says "This story has been out for a few years now"

And the OP's headline says it happened in the Bush administration, so even before you click, you know it's about something that happened in the past.

And it is being posted in "General discussion" - not breaking news.

Nobody is being deceived into thinking this is news. Why so upset about it? If the topic doesn't interest you, read something else.

People already familiar with the story (like you, I would have thought) will probably not even click on it since it is something they already know about. People like me, who happened to not have known about it, could find it worth reading.

[peace13]

61. Bingo!

During the * years I thought I followed every evil footstep. Either I missed a big one or my mind could not wrap around this at the time. Either way, this was new, old news, to me. Well put!

[haikugal]

157. Me too...I don't remember this. Maybe it was during a time when I was very ill?

I'm glad to have this information.

[MADem]

144. At a website called 'groopspeak' that seems to specialize in recycling old shit.

What's "trending now" is a story they've got dated 6 December. This isn't a mainstream source. It's just a grab bag of crap.

What we call a valid source these days seems to be a bit 'fluid.' And what we call 'politics, issues and current events' seems to have morphed, too, into 'any old thing from any old site.'

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum. Posts about the Democratic primaries, conspiracy theories and disruptive meta-discussion are forbidden. For more information, click here.

It looks to me like this site is an aggregator where you join and vote up or down on stories, and that causes them to rise and fall in importance. So, if a bunch of stormfront types decided to sign up, you could see a lot of cross burning and racialrageous garbage up in there. There's no sponsor easily found, the sourcing is vague, and the stuff slapped up there is eclectic at best.

Call me old school, but I like to know where the stuff on my 'news plate' came from. It informs my perspective. I know enough to look for the bias in anything dragged over here from say, Breitbart or The Daily Caller (which back in the day wouldn't even be tolerated, but I guess times change) but this site doesn't have a persistent lean--it depends on what bozos are clicking that particular day--like twitter, but less efficient.

[BeanMusical]

148. +1

[a2liberal]

58. I for one never heard about this before

Why does the post bother you so much? Serious question... It's not like it's blaming Obama

[Enthusiast]

139. +1!

[MADem]

145. Well, you're new.

This was discussed to death (no pun intended) when it occurred. And the appropriate outrage was registered.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5054876

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x828853

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2286040

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2273688

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2446124

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2449301

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100215471

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=259&topic_id=30361&mesg_id=30361

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2454148

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5084987

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101462840

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2446680

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2451741

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1178196

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101486772?com=search


And it doesn't "bother" me that it is being re-discussed. It's just more of a HISTORY issue than a "current events" one. I come to GD to talk about current events or trending issues....this isn't either (except to a few dozen "members" of "groopspeak" who might decide they want to talk about how dreamy Ted Cruz is, next...there's just no way to determine any lean on that site).

It simply decreases the utility of DU when "Good Reads" or "History" gets mangled up with what has traditionally been the more current stuff.

We used to have moderators who would move posts that were in the wrong place. They were replaced by hosts who (used to) lock posts that didn't meet the criteria. Now it's just a jumble sale.

[Bradical79]

143. I hadn't heard about it before

And it's a newly written story. Don't know why you are so upset about more of us being informed about things that occurred under the Bush administration.

[cantbeserious]

11. One Answer - Demand - No More War

eom

[malaise]

12. George Bush refused to allow photos or video of the bodies of troops returning home

Where was the outrage from families. How many of them have thanked Obama for removing this atrocity.
It's all bullshit from ReTHUGs re the troops. It's all about war profits.

[BigBearJohn]

14. Yes, and now we know why and we should re-broadcast it today

Since the GOP wants to get ugly... (and I know people will condemn me for this idea)
I could just picture an ad showing the government bulldozing bodies into a ditch
and the announcer saying, "Is this how the Republicans honor their dead?"

I realize it's too disgusting to even consider, but boy do they ever deserve it.

[malaise]

17. Who is going to show it

Not GEM$NBComcast-TRUMP CENTRAL?

[BigBearJohn]

20. Thank God for Facebook and Twitter... both of which I fully intend to use.

People need to be reminded of the atrocities that occurred during the last Republican administration.
And not bulldoze the truth into some trash dump, along with the remains of 274 brave soldiers.

[dumbcat]

59. WTF is GEM$NBComcast?

Really? GE?

[RandiFan1290]

18. Wow!

Someone sure is angry that you are bringing this up.

[MADem]

22. What does that even mean?

Shall we talk about Watergate, next?

" "

[RandiFan1290]

23.

[MADem]

24. `

" "

[Javaman]

50. since everyone is laughing about it...

I don't find any of this any sort of laughing matter.

And quite frankly, I'm glad it was posted, I had no idea this happened.

so rant all you want, there are people, such as myself, that this is actual news and never heard about it before.

so continue with your very odd sense of wanting to bury this as "old news", because your reaction, considering you're ex-military is really fucking weird.

[BigBearJohn]

56. Thanks

[GliderGuider]

81. I hadn't heard about it before either.

Happy that the story was brought back to life...so to speak.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. That is the reaction of somebody with lack of something

Same logic used to try to bury talks of structural racism, antisemitism and the holocaust.

[MADem]

146. Who's laughing?

I invite your attention to post 145. You must have been on holiday from DU from Nov 2011 to March 2012--it got a lot of play here way back then.

[Javaman]

160. you took this long to respond?

Just stop digging. you aren't helping yourself at all.

[MADem]

162. You're the one 'digging' if all you can find to complain about is that I didn't

'hop to' and respond swiftly enough to suit you.

[Javaman]

164. Shame on you.

honestly, shame on you.

This is what you have become. Think on that.

This truly appalling display by you and your bizarre and horribly weird reaction to the topic at hand.

Are you so far down the rabbit hole that you are unable to see beyond your nose?

I don't block people idly, but your very apparent lack of reflection and callousness to the topic at hand; I feel I have no other recourse then to block you.

You may reply, I will not. I will also not see what you wrote, but others will.

Remember this, whatever you choose to write, write it wisely for it will not be for me to judge, but by your peers here on DU.

[MADem]

166. Now you're finger wagging? And playing the SHAME game?

Take your own advice there, pal. You're the one who jumped in out of the blue and called me "fucking weird." I didn't get personal with YOU -- but your "go to" is to head straight to personal insult territory. If anyone should be "ashamed" it's you.

And go ahead and "block" me if you don't like me. I don't mind. Not one bit--more power to you. I won't have to endure your out-of-the-blue insults for no good reason.

USE the tools that the admins have offered you. It's better than you playing these strange word games, mischaracterizing my intent and attacking me for no good reason.

Since you're giving me advice about what to remember, I tell you what--you remember this--when you come after someone and start insulting them, maybe you should make sure that the person you're accusing is one who actually "did you wrong."

[BeanMusical]

147. Fucking weird is an understatement.

[haikugal]

158. Thank you! nt

[KingCharlemagne]

64. Somewhat OT, but Karl Rove got his start during Watergate as one of

Donald Segretti's dirty tricksters. The Watergate Special Prosecutor opened a prelim investigation of Rove, if memory serves. The investigation died out in the wake of Tricky Dick's resignation.

The past informs the present, eh?

[Rex]

65. I think the poster did not read the OP and thought this was an Obama slam.

Should have read the OP first imo. This is clearly aimed at the Bush administration.

[MADem]

67. And Robert Bork's bad behavior ensured he'd never become a

Supreme Court justice....by doing Dick's bidding, he ensured that he'd be "Borked" by a Senate that used to give a crap about "rule of law."

It's all very interesting, and of course the past informs the present...but it is history--it's not current events. It's not all-caps-worthy.

If you fired up a post saying "OUTRAGEOUS!!!! They investigated ROVE, and .... NOTHING WAS DONE!!!! To the RAMPARTS!!!" I'd be ho-humming, too.

[Enthusiast]

140. I found that odd.

[Quantess]

37. Holy shit! Is this true?

I had not heard this before.

But if it happened under GW Bush, I kind of believe it.

[BigBearJohn]

40. I hadn't seen it before, and I'm sure a lot of other people have not either. See link below

We need to remind people about the horrors of Republican administrations!

[Ed Suspicious]

52. I have never heard of it, so yes, I'm plenty thankful it was brought up her, as vomit inducing as it

may be.

[smirkymonkey]

107. I had never seen nor heard of this either.

It's horrible and unbelievable.

[Rex]

62. How did I never hear about this!?

Not surprising since Bush kept deaths under the radar as much as possible. Not surprised, most of us know Repukes are vile scum that place no value on human life.

[hunter]

66. Most of the shitty stuff you hear about the horrors in Iraq re. the Bush Administration are true.

In a just world these ratfucks would all be in prison, starting with the rotten knobs of the soulless viper: GHWB, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and all their oozing minions.

(GWB, like Reagan before him, was just a venal fuckstick. The Bush Boys were raised that way.)

[Stinky The Clown]

71. Ohferkrissakes

This really sounds like so much conspiracy theory bullshit.

Here's yer hat, the new, all knit, stylish version:

[Fumesucker]

74. I thought I had heard all the scuzzball tricks of the Cheney misadministration

Don't remember this one and I can remember all the way back to the W keys allegedly being pried off the WH keboards by departing Clinton staffers.

It unsurprising that a certain person very much wants to bury this as "old news", hmm, I've actually heard of Watergate before.

[Enthusiast]

141. We haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg.

[haikugal]

159. Well that would be because it received full coverage....unlike this. nt

[Mike Nelson]

76. This would be a big story if...

...they could figure a way to blame it on Obama or Hillary!

[JI7]

78. do you have links to other sources ?

[Aerows]

86. Holy Shit.

I've never heard of that before!

Is this true?

[HereSince1628]

102. Idea for editorial cartoon... Unknown Soldier written on memorial

Unwanted soldiers written on garbage can.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. Add a few spent shells

And yup, pretty much

[elias49]

110. Is that stoned spaceman gone yet?

Yikes.

[stone space]

127. Still here. (nt)

[Blue_In_AK]

112. True - this happened.

See Snopes http://www.snopes.com/soldiers-remains-dumped-landfill/

[Kaleva]

130. This caused a stir at DU when it first came out but was quickly forgotten.

[nadinbrzezinski]

132. Like nost horrible news

and some people are learning about this for the first time and a few here would liek this to be quickly buried AGAIN.

[Enthusiast]

134. My guess is this order came straight from the top.

I'm just saying.

Sounds like something the decider would decide.

[kentuck]

154. I put this article on Facebook for a short time...

and then decided to take it down. But I don't know why?

[polly7]

161. This is so sad, I'd never heard of it before and had to read it twice to

make sure I was getting it right, seems unbelievable. I can't imagine what the families must feel.

[romanic]

165. Sickening!