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another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:10 AM Jan 2016

Marine veteran criticizes Pentagon's, "Corrupt, insane and ambitious true believers."

We have not truly succeeded in any of our military interventions or occupations since the classic failure of the Vietnam War. The reason for this, in the opinion of Vietnam veteran and senior editor of Veterans Today, Gordon Duff, is that our generals have consistently chosen to support the wrong side in all of those conflicts. Perhaps one may object that generals don't run our foreign policy. Mr. Duff, who has been a military insider for decades, argues that to believe they don't is simply wishful thinking.




An American officer administers the re-enlistment oath to a solider in Qalat Afghanistan, July 2015.



Always on the Wrong Side: US Vet Questions Military's Muddled Loyalties



Gordon Duff, a Marine combat veteran of the Vietnam War and a senior editor and chairman of the board of Veterans Today, has recently been very critical of the US military and its top commanders. The reason for his frustration is the incompetence and the either intentional or deliberate delusion of the country’s top military commanders.

For a better understanding of what is going on in the US military, Duff recalled his personal military experience while serving in Vietnam. “I served in the US military in Vietnam, in a Marine special operations unit. There was a general consensus that America was clearly on the wrong side in Vietnam,” he recalls in his article for the New Eastern Outlook website. “The South Vietnamese government [closely supported by its principle ally, the US] was brutal, corrupt and illegal based on the Paris peace accords of 1954 and everyone knew it,” he says.

Let’s wind the clock forward to Reagan’s first year in office, the author suggests. “I was at a meeting in Miami between former members of the Garde Nationale, the Nazi death squads of the Somoza regime in Nicaragua and the US Army’s advisory group operating in Honduras.” The US “backed” contras fighting in Nicaragua were actually 100% paid mercenaries, much like ISIS (Daesh), trained, armed and led by Americans, he recalls. “I sat with maps in front of me showing infiltration routes into Nicaragua while our “Garde” friends passed on lists of those to be killed, all communists they said. The lists included teachers, nurses and, in more than one instance, personal grudges. The Americans in the room were lapping it up.”

(snip)

“If you stop someone in the Pentagon and ask them when Russia invaded the Ukraine and how many tank divisions are there, waiting to attack Western Europe, they will have an answer. That answer won’t be; “Are you friggin’ nuts.” They will take out their phones and show you photos of the Russian tanks, photos long proven to have been a decade old, long exposed as a hoax.” The author suggests that those advocating the chaos were from “secret societies and organized crime” and not the Soviet Union, something that President Kennedy rightfully pointed out long ago prior to being murdered. “Do this, ask someone in the American military how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Do it, please. Then you will understand how much I have understated here,” he urges.

(snip)



Read more at: http://sputniknews.com/us/20160118/1033319430/us-military-trust.html


113 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Marine veteran criticizes Pentagon's, "Corrupt, insane and ambitious true believers." (Original Post) another_liberal Jan 2016 OP
More unbiased reporting from Sputniknews??? Not saying anything is untrue, but Sputnik and RT... winstars Jan 2016 #1
The article excerpted is by an American veteran and journalist . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #2
I don't work for either. tazkcmo Jan 2016 #3
Is that a shag flag? B Calm Jan 2016 #4
The gold tassels? another_liberal Jan 2016 #7
The author is a known crackpot Lee-Lee Jan 2016 #5
And we have our first . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #6
You keep posting bullshit that is someone's opinion and claiming no one wants to look at 'facts'. randome Jan 2016 #9
Your opinion . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #11
My remark stands. 'Opinion' is not the same as 'facts'. And that's a fact. randome Jan 2016 #13
Why can't you answer my question? another_liberal Jan 2016 #14
Because your question is insulting. Neither of us knows who is telling the truth or not. randome Jan 2016 #16
But still you can't even say you aren't . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #17
I am bemused by the irrelevant petulance of your question. LanternWaste Jan 2016 #93
The content of his comments aren't sourced as far as I can tell. Bradical79 Jan 2016 #61
He may be a crackpot atreides1 Jan 2016 #8
The South Vietnamese government was corrupt and brutal 1939 Jan 2016 #18
You don't know which was more brutal. ronnie624 Jan 2016 #24
"Advocating chaos" Baitball Blogger Jan 2016 #10
Yes, and if one includes the wealthy war profiteers in industry and Congress . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #12
I await the follow up article by SputnikNoise edhopper Jan 2016 #15
If you did a search . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #34
The only thing that would surprise me edhopper Jan 2016 #38
Col. Ted Westhusing observed opportunities open only to certain connected cronies. Octafish Jan 2016 #19
What a powerful and compelling read . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #21
Thank you, another_liberal. Octafish Jan 2016 #35
God fucking damn it! I read the entire excerpt then see that it's from Sputnik?? From now on, ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2016 #20
No . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #22
Sputnik is a shit source. Why are you using it? You wasted my time, I have... ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2016 #23
I'm not "wasting" your time . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #26
I have no idea if I care about the subject because it comes from a shitty source. I don't trust that ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2016 #33
Take is easy. nilesobek Jan 2016 #30
This isn't about whining about DU. It's about putting the link to a shitty source at the bottom... ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2016 #32
Because propaganda edhopper Jan 2016 #29
Nice smear, alleging DUer is a 'Kremlin Source' based on a news story. Octafish Jan 2016 #71
SputnikNews edhopper Jan 2016 #72
Conflating an accurate observation as a smear indicates a refusal to think rationally LanternWaste Jan 2016 #94
How can citizens think clearly using news and information from a corrupt media? Octafish Jan 2016 #104
Save yourself the hassle and just put the OP on ignore cemaphonic Jan 2016 #92
More transcribed diarrhea from Sputnik News FSogol Jan 2016 #25
More content free and vulgar character assassination of the source . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #27
@all: This article is a prime example for the propaganda-technique RT/Sputniknews uses: DetlefK Jan 2016 #28
You seem to be a bit confused . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #31
Well, someone at Sputniknews re-edited Duff's article, didn't he? DetlefK Jan 2016 #36
Probably not edhopper Jan 2016 #39
"Kill the messenger" . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #44
You like this messenger? edhopper Jan 2016 #51
Whether or not I personally like the man is far from the point . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #56
Met him? edhopper Jan 2016 #58
I'd rationalize a right wing editorial as objective news too were I irrational enough. LanternWaste Jan 2016 #95
Direct quotes are not editing . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #46
Those are accurate criticisma of the article in your post. nilesobek Jan 2016 #41
What is that supposed to mean? DetlefK Jan 2016 #85
Allright. But if I have a beef, nilesobek Jan 2016 #101
Gordon Duff is an anti-Semitic Holocaust denier... SidDithers Jan 2016 #37
Everyone who criticizes Israel is anti-Semitic . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #42
Everyone who is an Holocaust Denier is anti-Semitic... SidDithers Jan 2016 #45
Your post was addressed to me, Sidney . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #48
This is probably the source of the anti-semitism Bradical79 Jan 2016 #67
Amazing how the OP edhopper Jan 2016 #69
Who precisely? LanternWaste Jan 2016 #96
So you want to accept what this guy says edhopper Jan 2016 #40
Yet another erffort at character assassination aimed at the source . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #43
of course not edhopper Jan 2016 #47
I find it deeply disappointing . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #49
For a real glimpse into Duff, google his article entitled "We Don’t No Nuttin’", from July 2012... SidDithers Jan 2016 #50
It's Kremlin approved edhopper Jan 2016 #52
Are you referring to me with that comment? another_liberal Jan 2016 #60
Yes edhopper Jan 2016 #65
You have a wonderfully powerful imagination . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #74
No I do not think you do edhopper Jan 2016 #75
That is not an answer to my question . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #77
I told you I don't edhopper Jan 2016 #78
You don't what? another_liberal Jan 2016 #79
Didn't know a simple declarative statement was too hard to understand edhopper Jan 2016 #80
My model? another_liberal Jan 2016 #81
you mean as opposed edhopper Jan 2016 #82
We're done here, ed . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #83
G-night edhopper Jan 2016 #84
Well, thank you for the suggestion . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #57
I think I'll go ahead and bookmark this thread... SidDithers Jan 2016 #59
Your prerogative . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #62
It's not every day that you see someone defending Gordon Duff... SidDithers Jan 2016 #63
I linked to it in a reply to you further up thread Bradical79 Jan 2016 #70
Nothing but character assassination . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #86
From his own fucking mouth! edhopper Jan 2016 #87
Duff even promoted a claim that Mossad was behind the Sandy Hook school massacre pinboy3niner Jan 2016 #88
Again with the insults? another_liberal Jan 2016 #89
I'm just telling it like it is edhopper Jan 2016 #90
You deserve all the insults you can get Bradical79 Jan 2016 #91
Since no one seems to care what we call each other anymore . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #97
What's this about the CIA staging a satin attack? Bradical79 Jan 2016 #53
He's wack job edhopper Jan 2016 #54
Yup, just read an article of his. Bradical79 Jan 2016 #66
The OP thinks he's worth our edhopper Jan 2016 #68
Didn't read the link, didn't read the thread... Wounded Bear Jan 2016 #55
K&R for visibility. nt tblue37 Jan 2016 #64
Looks like a new low for Sputy and Pooty. moondust Jan 2016 #73
And yet the OP continues to edhopper Jan 2016 #76
More wonderfully imaginative quotes from your esteemed 'author.' Really, really great stuff. LanternWaste Jan 2016 #98
"Pile on! Pile on!" another_liberal Jan 2016 #99
Deflect from his quoted, irrational beliefs, and pretend he's a martyr. LanternWaste Jan 2016 #100
You are proud of that? another_liberal Jan 2016 #105
Sample from your author: "UFO Drone Found on Mars is Proof of Ancient Civilization on Red Planet" LanternWaste Jan 2016 #102
It's one thing to report on a far-fetched story . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #106
Air Force Academy had stolen nuclear weapons for use against the city of Chicago. LanternWaste Jan 2016 #103
See my last comment above . . . another_liberal Jan 2016 #107
It really is your last comment. Thank the gods! CreekDog Jan 2016 #108
Thanks EarlG... SidDithers Jan 2016 #111
That's one less check edhopper Jan 2016 #109
Now he has to use the other accounts CreekDog Jan 2016 #110
Did that really just happen? nilesobek Jan 2016 #112
Yup. It sure did...nt SidDithers Jan 2016 #113

winstars

(4,219 posts)
1. More unbiased reporting from Sputniknews??? Not saying anything is untrue, but Sputnik and RT...
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:16 AM
Jan 2016

Are the Russian government

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
2. The article excerpted is by an American veteran and journalist . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:28 AM
Jan 2016

Are you saying we can't believe what he is telling us?

If a News source offers the truth about noteworthy events (which Sputnik reliably does) why in the world should its country of origin matter anyway?

tazkcmo

(7,300 posts)
3. I don't work for either.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:30 AM
Jan 2016

I'm just a veteran that was recalled for Oil War I and I agree 3 bazillion percent with this article. We all knew it was bullshit, about the oil and not Kuwaiti liberation. Hell, the Kuwaitis officers I encountered before my initial separation (ETS) weren't in any hurry to go home and fight. They told me, "That's America's job.". They knew what this was about before we did. After that "war", I watched on Yugoslavia dissolve into chaos and the ethnic cleansing and total destruction of a world class city, Sarajevo while the US sat on it's hands and let it happen. Why? No oil. Fuck 'em.

So, bias or not, this story IS true. Sometimes the truth hurts and this is one example. Wars of choice are killing this country as well as millions of innocent people and the trust of the observers and survivors of those wars. Wake up, America. We're (the military) being used to enrich the 1%.

On edit: Forgot to relate our training excercises to become proficient at killing Communists (Russian ones) while our government was courting other Communists (Chinese ones). Follow the money.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
5. The author is a known crackpot
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:34 AM
Jan 2016

And also can't even be honest about his military service. In the quote above he claims he was in a "Special Operations" unit but he has been putting crackpot stuff all over for so long that people requested and got his records years ago and he was not in any sort of "special operations".

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=18933

Note anything at the above site that is political is pretty right wing, but when it comes to the stolen valor and verification of service they go after anyone left or right and show source documents.

Looking at the guys long history of crackpot stuff I'm not surprised he found a home on Sputnik.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
6. And we have our first . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:52 AM
Jan 2016

Clear attempt at character assassination of the source. Did he touch a nerve?

I won't even bother to ask what you think about the content of his comments

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
9. You keep posting bullshit that is someone's opinion and claiming no one wants to look at 'facts'.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:07 AM
Jan 2016

Your disconnection with reality is impressive.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
11. Your opinion . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:21 AM
Jan 2016

I do have to question your motive for repeatedly insulting me in this way, ramdome. Are you employed by a government agency or Pentagon-affiliated private concern? I am not in the service of any such entity, in case that even matters to you.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
13. My remark stands. 'Opinion' is not the same as 'facts'. And that's a fact.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:26 AM
Jan 2016

And you know SputnikNews is not welcome here but you seem to think it's the most reliable news source in the world. You clearly don't think much of learning from others here, you simply post from the same source every time.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
14. Why can't you answer my question?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:56 AM
Jan 2016

Are you employed by a government agency or affiliated private concern?

I have already freely stated that I am not.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
16. Because your question is insulting. Neither of us knows who is telling the truth or not.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:02 AM
Jan 2016

But what is quite clear is that you don't care what the truth is so long as you get to push Russian propaganda reports.

The fact is that SputnikNews is wholly funded and operated by the Russian government. We should no more expect to see it sourced at DU than we would Voice of America. And the fact is that you continue posting written opinions then complaining that no one wants to see your 'facts'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
17. But still you can't even say you aren't . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:34 AM
Jan 2016

Working for the government or an affiliated private concern?

Fascinating.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
93. I am bemused by the irrelevant petulance of your question.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:47 PM
Jan 2016

I am bemused by the irrelevant petulance of your question almost as much as bemused by the discipline it takes to use four news sources only, focus on the editorials regardless of topic, and pretend all critiques of it are simply propaganda in your own never-ending quest to avoid the direct queries you indict others for.

Not fascinating, but yet bemusing.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
61. The content of his comments aren't sourced as far as I can tell.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:50 PM
Jan 2016

I just went to his website, and he is a nut. Blaming Russia for the Holocaust, claiming the Nazi's were hailed as liberating heroes. All the content seems to come straight from his mind, in which case his character and mental stability is entirely relevant.

atreides1

(16,066 posts)
8. He may be a crackpot
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:07 AM
Jan 2016

But, the South Vietnamese government was corrupt and brutal...and so was the Somoza government! And let's not forget that Saddam Hussein was our friend, at least while he was fighting the Iranians!

The US, in it's war against Communism has a track record filled with supporting brutal tyrants and dictators...and the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and now ISIL/ISIS are the results of US government incompetence!

I recall watching the Somoza soldier shooting an NBC reporter, that reporters name was Bill Stewart!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Stewart_%28journalist%29

And let's not forget our friends in El Salvador who raped and killed 4 nuns...and also murdered Bishop Oscar Romero

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Donovan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93scar_Romero

As far as his accusations relating to ISIS, he's just a little touched in the head...I'm more inclined to believe that ISIS is getting support from Saudi Arabia, and possibly even the ISI of Pakistan!









1939

(1,683 posts)
18. The South Vietnamese government was corrupt and brutal
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:41 AM
Jan 2016

The North Vietnamese government was far, far more brutal and in the years since taking over south Vietnam has eased its brutality but has raised corruption to an art form.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
24. You don't know which was more brutal.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:12 PM
Jan 2016

Your opinion is pure conjecture.

It is known with certainty, however, that is was US bombs that leveled three countries and killed millions of people in Indochina. And it was self-serving US interventionism that laid the groundwork for the war, as well.

The unspoken assumption in the collective world-view of Americans, is that their government has a moral imperative to commit brutal acts against other countries. We conduct ourselves in the world, according to a completely different set of standards than what we impose on others.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
12. Yes, and if one includes the wealthy war profiteers in industry and Congress . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:24 AM
Jan 2016

It becomes a largely believable picture of what is going on.

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
15. I await the follow up article by SputnikNoise
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jan 2016

on the Russian Military in Afghanistan, Georgia, Chechnya and Ukraine.

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
38. The only thing that would surprise me
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 03:10 PM
Jan 2016

was if you did not link a pro-Kremlin propaganda source.

People have shown you in this thread that Duff is a nut case, but you stay close minded and refuse to acknowledge it because you accept everything from your source.


Keep posting this crap if you want, i'll keep calling it Bullshit Russian propaganda.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
19. Col. Ted Westhusing observed opportunities open only to certain connected cronies.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:44 AM
Jan 2016
James Risen wrote about a death threat made by Blackwater's main man in Iraq upon an official from the State Department sent to investigate contractor corruption. Upon hearing that news, and before I could think of what that really meant or anything else, I thought of Col. Theodore S. Westhusing, United States Army.



Col. Westhusing was in charge of training the new Iraqi army and overseeing civilian contractors. He is remembered as a good man, a brilliant man who followed the Cadet Code: "I will not lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those who do.” As an instructor at West Point, the PhD colonel served as the Army's chief ethicist. So, as an honest officer in Iraq, he came to suspect something was very wrong with the conduct of some of the private military contractors in the employ of USIS. Unfortunately, before he revealed those suspicions, and just a few weeks before he was scheduled to return home to his loving wife and family, he became a suicide.

The subject was discussed on DU. One thread from 2007:

Know your BFEE: They kill good soldiers like Col. Ted Westhusing for profit...


Another from 2012, when Petraeus ran into some conduct unbecoming problems at CIA:

Is David Petraeus Dirty? Ted Westhusing Said So, and Then He Shot Himself.


Which brings me back to hearing the report of Blackwater's top manager in Iraq. Imagine the gall of the son of a bitch! To threaten the life of a U.S. citizen sent on official government business -- the People's business -- to see how our money was being spent, or in the case of the Iraq War, stolen. It seems some groups, such as the private military contractors, join their employers in Washington in thinking that they really are above the law. They certainly behave that way.

Could there be any connection between Blackwater and USIS, the once-public then privatized public employee background check organization now turned military contractor in Iraq? Of course, there are. Both are BFEE-connected for-profit outfits that are making enormous fortunes from the Iraq War.

Blackwater was owned and operated largely by one Erik Prince, darling of America's hard right and Michigan's right to inherit wealth beyond imagination class. His sister is a GOP kingmaker, including his brother in law, the once unsuccessful GOP candidate for Michigan governor. Petraeus and CIA were so enamored of the talents and abilities of Mr. Prince, CIA outsourced drone targeting to his firm.

At the time of Col. Westhusing's death, USIS was owned and operated largely by Carlyle Group, a private investment bank known for finding, buying, and flipping defense-related companies at a nice profit. They literally and figuratively are good friends and actual employers of George W Bush, his father, George H.W. Bush, Sec. of State James Baker, Sec. of Defense Frank Carlucci, Prime Minister John Major of the UK and other government insiders and players connected to the grand ol' oily chess board.

In short, both USIS and Blackwater are controlled by the "money trumps peace" crowd, the cronies and family of George W Bush. What Bartcop termed the BFEE for Bush Family Evil Empire, or what I call the War Party for short, follow the philosophy that the United States can be defended at a handsome profit and, if you apply enough media spin, quite patriotically.



As for Col. Westhusing: He, according to one officer under his command, at first very much believed in his mission. Why? Because the same BFEE liars who lied America into war also lied the good men and women at West Point and at the Pentagon into war. Until he got to Iraq and saw with his own eyes and heard with his own ears, he never thought "money would trump peace."

An Army psychologist concluded that Westhusing struggled with the idea that “monetary values could outweigh moral ones in war.” This, she said, was a flaw. -- Westhusing's Flaw

Of course, the only "flaw" was in being a highly ethical person, one who would NOT "go along to get along." In short, Col. Westhusing was a man of integrity. He was the kind who stand in the way of the warmongers and war profiteers. Until the politicians who lied him and America into war are brought to justice, we just won't know how much he became their victim.
 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
21. What a powerful and compelling read . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:00 PM
Jan 2016

I have never heard of this officer before, or if I did in passing, I had no comprehension of his story.

We have seen plenty of proof that our Blackwater type "private contractors" could be cold-blooded murderers of innocent bystanders. One can only imagine what they were capable of if the target had the influence and inclination to threaten their livelihoods.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
35. Thank you, another_liberal.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:18 PM
Jan 2016

It's why DU matters: Corporate McPravda bring up those who make a killing off war's side 24/7.

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
20. God fucking damn it! I read the entire excerpt then see that it's from Sputnik?? From now on,
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:50 AM
Jan 2016

put your fucking link first so you're not wasting people's time!

I don't have time to read shit come from a shit source!

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
23. Sputnik is a shit source. Why are you using it? You wasted my time, I have...
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:09 PM
Jan 2016

...good reason to be annoyed.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
26. I'm not "wasting" your time . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:34 PM
Jan 2016

Only you can do that.

I'm just trying to make you think regarding a subject about which you are clearly very emotional. Try to keep your temper; after all, thinking about new or different points of view can't really hurt one, right?

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
33. I have no idea if I care about the subject because it comes from a shitty source. I don't trust that
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:10 PM
Jan 2016

source so how do I know if they're publishing the truth?

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
30. Take is easy.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:43 PM
Jan 2016

The mods and admins have allowed this source you should complain to them. The rule is: "No whining about Du in Gd." How is this any different than on site cia editors who edit the american media? "Close hold Brian (Williams), close hold."

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
32. This isn't about whining about DU. It's about putting the link to a shitty source at the bottom...
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:08 PM
Jan 2016

...after one has already read the provided excerpt only to then see that the excerpt is from a shitty source. That is wasting time. If you're confident of a source, then put the link first so people can see the source of the excerpt before they go on to read it.

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
29. Because propaganda
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:41 PM
Jan 2016

works better when you don't make it obvious.

Just assume that anything from this poster is from a Russian/Kremlin source.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
71. Nice smear, alleging DUer is a 'Kremlin Source' based on a news story.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 07:49 PM
Jan 2016

Do you prefer reports from "MIC Sources"? They swore Vietnam attacked the USA in the Gulf of Tonkin.

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
72. SputnikNews
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 08:18 PM
Jan 2016

is the Kremlin source, not the DUer.
He just posts it here. I won't speculate on his motives.
Others may, I couldn't possibly say.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
94. Conflating an accurate observation as a smear indicates a refusal to think rationally
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:49 PM
Jan 2016

Conflating an accurate observation as a smear indicates a refusal to think rationally in order to validate your own biases.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
104. How can citizens think clearly using news and information from a corrupt media?
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:21 PM
Jan 2016

If the news and information come from propagandists for the corporations/government, it is not without bias and it is not democratic.

cemaphonic

(4,138 posts)
92. Save yourself the hassle and just put the OP on ignore
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:14 PM
Jan 2016

OP is a relentless propaganda troll and pretty much posts exclusively from RT and Sputnik. I find the resulting flamewars entertaining, but if you don't, you won't be missing anything important.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
28. @all: This article is a prime example for the propaganda-technique RT/Sputniknews uses:
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:38 PM
Jan 2016
An American Marine combat veteran has provided his own analysis of why US military leaders are frequently perceived as “mental cripples, delusional, paranoid and morally repugnant” and why the US military simply cannot be trusted by either the US president, its Commander-in-Chief, or by the American people.

Who regards them as “mental cripples, delusional, paranoid and morally repugnant”?

Sputniknews doesn't tell and its irrelevant. It's not a "factual" statement. It's merely setting up a Anti-US tone.




The US “backed” contras fighting in Nicaragua were actually 100% paid mercenaries, much like ISIS (Daesh), trained, armed and led by Americans, he recalls.

Oh, so the US supports ISIS? Does Sputniknews offer proof for that serious allegation?

Not, it doesn't. Because it's not intended to be a factual statement. Again, it's purely about transporting an Anti-US sentiment to the reader.




Please note how the article jumps from topic to topic to topic to topic to topic to topic without ever proving what has just been said.

Bombard the reader.
Flood his mind with irrelevant information.
Barrage him, confuse him, make him dizzy.
And inbetween this confusion, sprinkle half-truths and lies. No need to prove them. "Everybody knows them to be true."

"What did the article just say? ISIS is working for the US? I wonder what... oh, no time, here comes the next outrage. The evidence of the Russian Army being in Ukraine is well-known to be fake? But that doesn't explain... oh, no time, here come the next outrage."

US TV-channels bombard the viewer with the "outrage-of-the-day" to keep up ratings.
Sputniknews does exactly the same, but with a different goal: Their goal is to confuse their readers to the point where they don't realize that the outrage they have been fed was laced with propaganda.
 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
31. You seem to be a bit confused . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:58 PM
Jan 2016

The article I posted from is comprised almost entirely of direct quotes from Gordon Duff's piece for the New Eastern Outlook website (note the quotation marks) and it is completely inaccurate to attribute Mr. Duff's comments and opinions to any other source. I am certain he would not appreciate someone doing that, however inadvertently.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
44. "Kill the messenger" . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:12 PM
Jan 2016

Especially if the messenger is bold enough as to effectively criticize the military/industrial/congressional complex. Right?

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
51. You like this messenger?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:25 PM
Jan 2016

you trust someone who is an antisemitic, Holocaust denying, 9/11 truther?

Judging by the messengers you usually choose, I am not surprised.

That you can't admit who this nut job is, just shows how far up the Kremlin's ass you are.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
56. Whether or not I personally like the man is far from the point . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:43 PM
Jan 2016

For the record, I have never met or even corresponded with Mr. Duff. I will say, however, that anyone who is attacked with childish insults like "nut job" immediately gains my sympathy just for that reason alone.

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
58. Met him?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:46 PM
Jan 2016

Just read his shit, he is a holocaust denying, 9/11 Truther.

Glad you approve of him, tells me a lot about you.The boys in the Kremlin will be glad for your loyalty.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
95. I'd rationalize a right wing editorial as objective news too were I irrational enough.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:53 PM
Jan 2016

I'd rationalize a right wing editorial as objective news too were I irrational in thought, specious in reasoning, and sophistic in letters.

I'd also pretend everyone who disagrees with me is in cahoots with military industries and big money just as you imply... it allows one to dismiss them without thought, and offers additional bias confirmation.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
46. Direct quotes are not editing . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:14 PM
Jan 2016

Mr. Duff is quoted at considerable length, and those are his words.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
41. Those are accurate criticisma of the article in your post.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:22 PM
Jan 2016

As is Sid's observation and comment. But you are comparing equivalencies of the two media through rose colored glasses. America perfected propaganda. To think otherwise is naive.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
85. What is that supposed to mean?
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 07:46 AM
Jan 2016

Are you saying it's unfair to bring up Sputniknews' propaganda without mentioning american propaganda?

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
101. Allright. But if I have a beef,
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:18 PM
Jan 2016

with, say Reuters, mainly because they spew constant propaganda without rarely revealing a source, then would it be of good form for me to enter every thread with a Reuters link and go on a crusade about it? It looks and feels like bullying, exceptions being those like yourself who posted a pretty good critique running down the article.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
37. Gordon Duff is an anti-Semitic Holocaust denier...
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:47 PM
Jan 2016

Veterans Today is a hate site, according to the SPLC.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2011/01/06/buyer-beware-veterans-today-and-its-anti-israel-agenda

Anyone, or any organization, quoting Duff or basing an article on his opinions, doesn't belong at DU.

Sid

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
42. Everyone who criticizes Israel is anti-Semitic . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:02 PM
Jan 2016

According to some people.

I know nothing about the basis for these charges you make, except that I did read the take-down of Mr. Duff's website you linked to. It is, I have to say, seriously short on evidence and long on accusation. It was disappointing that a highly respected organization like the Southern Poverty Law Center (which I have held in high esteem for many years) would lend its name to such a thinly supported attack. Very sad if what's offered is all there is to back up this "Kill the messenger" style effort.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
45. Everyone who is an Holocaust Denier is anti-Semitic...
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:13 PM
Jan 2016

You can do your own research. Or not. I don't really care.

I wasn't posting the information for your benefit, but for anyone who might stop by to read the dreck that you posted.

Sid

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
48. Your post was addressed to me, Sidney . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:16 PM
Jan 2016

If you don't want me to see it that way, don't do it that way.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
67. This is probably the source of the anti-semitism
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:59 PM
Jan 2016
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/07/06/we-dont-no-nuttin/

Read that, and tell me this guy is a rational thinker. He thinks the Holocaust was a Soviet conspiracy.

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
69. Amazing how the OP
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 07:01 PM
Jan 2016

will promote anything from the Kremlin News without question and then defend it so much when it is shown to be bullshit.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
96. Who precisely?
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:56 PM
Jan 2016

"According to some people. .."

Who precisely?
Or is that merely an allegation designed to work as Teflon as you righteously defend a Holocaust denier from unjust criticism?

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
43. Yet another erffort at character assassination aimed at the source . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:08 PM
Jan 2016

At any rate, a website which calls itself "americanloons.blogspot" is too obviously an attack site to be taken seriously, in my opinion.

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
47. of course not
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:15 PM
Jan 2016

Does the Southern Poverty Law Center, which also calls him an antisemitic wack job fail to pass your source test.

Or are only Kremlin endorsed sites worth your time?

Nice how you want to lend credibility to a 9/11 Truther.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
49. I find it deeply disappointing . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:23 PM
Jan 2016

That the SPLC would lend its name to what appears to be a quite thinly supported assault on this individual's character. I would have expected a good deal more fairness coming from them.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
50. For a real glimpse into Duff, google his article entitled "We Don’t No Nuttin’", from July 2012...
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:24 PM
Jan 2016

I'm not going to link to it, because I don't want to give him the traffic.

Sid

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
60. Are you referring to me with that comment?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:50 PM
Jan 2016

If so, you are seriously delusional about my imagined connections to the Russian Federation's government.

As I have said many times before: I am in no way working for any government or government affiliated private concern. Can you here and now state the same about yourself? Hmmm?

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
65. Yes
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:54 PM
Jan 2016

why would you think I do. Who do you think i work for?

I am just calling your bullshit posts from bullshit Kremlin sources.

If you say the Kremlin doesn't pay you, fine they don't. I believe you.

You just do their work for free. Because I truly would see no difference between your posts and those of a paid operative.



 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
74. You have a wonderfully powerful imagination . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:16 PM
Jan 2016

I wish, though, that you would try bending it toward less insulting and biased comments, the ones concerning me at least. One can be much more effective communicating if he ues language a bit more polite than, ". . . your bullshit posts from bullshit Kremlin sources." What, exactly, is that supposed to mean? All you're saying is that you have emotional reasons to dislike Russian sources, and, perhaps, me. That doesn't really serve to communicate much worthwhile, now does it?

BTW: You still dodged a direct answer to my question. Lets have a direct answer. Do you or don't you work for the government or an affiliated private concern? Just "Yes, I do" or "No I do not." Thanks.

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
75. No I do not think you do
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:30 PM
Jan 2016

I think your post here would not be different if you did, but I don't think you are.

As evidenced by your continued defense of Duff and what he says in this article, in the face of being shown what a horrible man he is and his nutjob ideas.

Your failure to reputed this or any SputnikNews or RT story, no matter the information showing they are wrong many times, tells me that you put your trust in the Kremlin and the Kremlin alone.

I don't know why that is and wouldn't venture to speculate.

What I don't know is how you call yourself a Democrat with all the anti-Amercan, pro-Putin crap you post.

I wonder if you even voted for Obama?

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
77. That is not an answer to my question . . .
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:21 PM
Jan 2016

Do you or don't you work for the government or a government-affiliated private concern?

It puzzles me why anyone would allow people to think he might be a government troll, when all he needs to do is say he is not one?

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
79. You don't what?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:32 PM
Jan 2016

Why can't you just state, "I do not work for any government or any government-affiliated private concern."

I have stated this repeatedly in response to accusations, such as yours on this string, that I am controlled by a foreign power. Can you state the same, or can't you?

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
80. Didn't know a simple declarative statement was too hard to understand
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:39 PM
Jan 2016

But you need that phrase, fine.
I do not work for any government or any government-affiliated private concern

I guess it's hard to understand straightforward answers when Putin's Russia is your model.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
81. My model?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:49 PM
Jan 2016

You are quite a hoot, you know that?

But I am relieved to know you aren't a professional troll, posting here to massage opinion in favor of the worst kind of options our country has to choose from. Good for you.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
70. I linked to it in a reply to you further up thread
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 07:04 PM
Jan 2016

Not sure I should have, but it certainly clears up any question of this guy's credibility imo. He's defenitely a holocaust denier. Kind of surprised Sputnik would go to this guy's rantings as a source considering how much of the Nazi's crimes he tries to blame on Russia.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
86. Nothing but character assassination . . .
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:11 AM
Jan 2016

Kill the messenger, and then the problem is solved. Right?

I do not know Mr. Duff's history, but I have yet to see anything offered here which convinces me these charges of "Holocaust Denier" have any basis in fact. People I admire have been labeled "Anti-Semitic" before, because of nothing more than opposition to Israel's deplorable bombing campaigns against Gaza. If that kind of thing is all Mr. Duff is guilty of, he certainly does not deserve the slanderous bashing he has received on this string.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
88. Duff even promoted a claim that Mossad was behind the Sandy Hook school massacre
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:30 AM
Jan 2016

It's for good reason that this guy has such a horrible reputation in the veterans' community. We abhor the bigotry and CT he spews while pretending to be a journalist.

Mind-boggling, indeed.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
89. Again with the insults?
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:01 AM
Jan 2016

I will check out your links, ed, but don't expect another reply until you adopt a more civilized tone. I mean really . . .

edhopper

(33,475 posts)
90. I'm just telling it like it is
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:33 AM
Jan 2016

do you deny that SputnikNews is an arm of the Kremlin?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_%28news_agency%29

Sputnik is an international multimedia service launched on 10 November 2014 by Rossiya Segodnya, an agency wholly owned and operated by the Russian government


I will patiently wait for you to admit this guy is a holocaust denier. But I will not hold my breath.
 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
91. You deserve all the insults you can get
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:28 PM
Jan 2016

It's clear at this point you are no liberal. You are a liar and defender of fascism. This person you claim to admire is a holocaust denying, Nazi defending, conspiracy theory pushing blogger (not a "journalist" as you falsely claim). The evidence has been presented, and you are either ignoring it or you are already aware of it and don't care (the most likely scenario). Are you a sociopath getting paid by Russia to spread lies? Are you simply lacking the mental facilities to think for yourself and have been taken in by the propaganda (i.e. a "useful idiot?&quot Are you a Neonazi sympathizer which would make your latest acceptance of holocaust denial by your "admired journalist" more clear? I don't know, but whatever the case, whatever reason you use to justify your disgusting online persona, you need to be banned.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
97. Since no one seems to care what we call each other anymore . . .
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:04 PM
Jan 2016

You, my foul-mouthed friend, are a hateful little demagogue. In your self-assured certainty you are as narrow minded and backward as the people you profess to hate most. May you never have the power to indulge your clearly awful tendencies.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
53. What's this about the CIA staging a satin attack?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:30 PM
Jan 2016

"Later proven to have been staged by Turkish intelligence aided by the CIA, gas produced at an American facility in Tbilisi, Georgia, the lie lived and the truth never got through.”

What?

Wounded Bear

(58,598 posts)
55. Didn't read the link, didn't read the thread...
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:33 PM
Jan 2016

scanned enough to where it said "we always backed the wrong side."

I don't recall than many of our late military adventures even had a right side to be on. We tend to fight on the side with potentially the most profit involved, but other than that, they've mostly all been clusterfucks.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
98. More wonderfully imaginative quotes from your esteemed 'author.' Really, really great stuff.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:06 PM
Jan 2016

"UFO Drone Found on Mars is Proof of Ancient Civilization on Red Planet"

"Did the Germans kill 20 million Russians? There isn’t a single shred of evidence of anything that vicious..."

"Where were the 20 million bodies? They disappeared. Where did the pink little bodies go? Oh, you will love this..."

"Did the US murder over one million POWs. Yes."

"There is substantial evidence that graduates of the Air Force Academy had stolen nuclear weapons for use against the city of Chicago."

(This is where you pretend merely quoting his own works is unfair and an attack against the messenger... unless of course, you have a brand new defensive tactic to dismiss any who disagree with you)

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
99. "Pile on! Pile on!"
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:11 PM
Jan 2016

"Lets all pile on that guy!"

Like little kids on a playground at lunch time. (sigh)

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
100. Deflect from his quoted, irrational beliefs, and pretend he's a martyr.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:15 PM
Jan 2016

Deflect from his irrational beliefs, and pretend he's a martyr. You and he are so oppressed.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
102. Sample from your author: "UFO Drone Found on Mars is Proof of Ancient Civilization on Red Planet"
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:19 PM
Jan 2016

Sample from your author: "UFO Drone Found on Mars is Proof of Ancient Civilization on Red Planet"

(This is where you rationalize quoting his work is actually an attack...)

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
106. It's one thing to report on a far-fetched story . . .
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 04:05 PM
Jan 2016

And it's quite another to claim it is the undisputed truth. Your comment is misleading and disingenuous.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
103. Air Force Academy had stolen nuclear weapons for use against the city of Chicago.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:21 PM
Jan 2016

Another gem from your author illustrating both his research skills and objectivity...


"Air Force Academy had stolen nuclear weapons for use against the city of Chicago."

I think it's adorable that you perceive him to be a valid source. Simply adorable and my little crush on you grows even stronger!!!

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
108. It really is your last comment. Thank the gods!
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 04:36 PM
Jan 2016
MIR Team (EarlG) banned another_liberal
Mail Message
Reason:
Constantly posting conspiracy articles from official Kremlin "news" sources, the most recent of which heavily cited infamous Holocaust denier Gordon Duff, whom another_liberal seemed to consider a reliable source even after being informed of this fact.

http://www.democraticunderground.com?com=profile&uid=297743&sub=trans

Real name:
DU Member for: 3 years, 1 months, 15 days
Posts: 8,821
Recommendations: 1,491
Star member: Yes

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
112. Did that really just happen?
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 11:27 AM
Jan 2016

There is no more opposition to the crazy Russophobia now.

He seemed to be intelligent but a bit of a one track mind. He only posted from those Russian media sources. I've never heard of Duff before. Anti-semite.

Why are those news sources even allowed? Then he got tombstoned for it.

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