KRUGMAN: "Recovery Was NEVER The Point"

[kpete]

The Austerity Agenda
By PAUL KRUGMAN

.........................
So the austerity drive in Britain isn’t really about debt and deficits at all; it’s about using deficit panic as an excuse to dismantle social programs. And this is, of course, exactly the same thing that has been happening in America.

In fairness to Britain’s conservatives, they aren’t quite as crude as their American counterparts. They don’t rail against the evils of deficits in one breath, then demand huge tax cuts for the wealthy in the next (although the Cameron government has, in fact, significantly cut the top tax rate). And, in general, they seem less determined than America’s right to aid the rich and punish the poor. Still, the direction of policy is the same — and so is the fundamental insincerity of the calls for austerity.

.....................

The big question here is whether the evident failure of austerity to produce an economic recovery will lead to a “Plan B.” Maybe. But my guess is that even if such a plan is announced, it won’t amount to much. For economic recovery was never the point; the drive for austerity was about using the crisis, not solving it. And it still is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/opinion/krugman-the-austerity-agenda.html?_r=2&hp

[grasswire]

1. chaos capitalism

And the complicit media is the whore for the pimps/profiteers.

[DontTreadOnMe]

2. Drive up public debt with war and tax breaks for th rich

so they have an excuse to fire government union jobs and dismantle social programs... it is so easy to see their plan -- but we live in a country that is not even paying attention... and never will.

I think we have reached a tipping point driven by greed. The change will come when 25% of the world becomes basically impoverished and homeless, scraping for food. The problem for the wealthy is the amount of weapons worldwide can never be recalled of confiscated... which will result in a world civil war against the rich.

When they start laying off all public police, and start hiring private security forces... that will be the sign the war has started.

[EFerrari]

13. They are already using the police to protect the banks from peaceful protesters

remember? They don't have to hire private security forces, they just use the ones we pay for. Win-win for them.

[woo me with science]

3. +100000000000000000000

[mother earth]

4. K & R, and two words, "Shock Doctrine" (Naomi Klein). nt

[socialist_n_TN]

21. Yep. This kind of "revelation" always brings that.........

book and Naomi Klein's theory to mind. Better late than never acknowledging it Paul.

At least more and more people are getting wise to the procedure. However, they never attribute it to the original book. That's probably because if the book became even more widely read, even the American people might be stirred to do something.

[ewagner]

29. agree n/t

[chervilant]

62. Out here in the sticks of Arkansas

we significantly outnumber the 'peace keepers' and we're armed to the teeth. I could make one phone call and have access to any number of firearms. I have begun to wonder if we will see a rapid collapse of social order, when enough of us are starving (20% of us already qualify for food stamps and I can't feed myself without them) and can see no alternative.

I am already glad that I got out of the city. I shudder to think what will happen to our urban brethren before they successfully overcome the 'police.'

[hifiguy]

22. Bull's eye.

An artificial crisis created by TPTB as an excuse to impose a modern version of the feudal social order. Madame Lafarge and the tumbrels aren't here yet, but they are off past the horizon. It will suck to be the rich when the serious shit comes down, but they will have richly earned their fate, which will not be pretty.

[coalition_unwilling]

43. I've been waiting my entire life for "when the serious shit comes down" and I'm

still waiting.

But I agree with you.

[byeya]

44. The post WW2 social contract, basically said Capital will share increasing productivity

and profits with the Workers; and the Workers, in turn, would foreswear stringing up the capitalists from
power poles.
The attack on Workers has been going on since the late Carter presidency and has continued unabated since. We wage slaves need to realize that, for us, this is not a self-correcting state of affairs.

[hifiguy]

46. The best way to silence fans of laissez-faire is to

point out that greed has never been, never is and never will be self-regulating. Shuts them up real fast.

[mother earth]

68. You need to turn that into a bumper sticker.

[woo me with science]

36. Thank you. nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

5. Ditto, Paul. That's what I always believed.

[xchrom]

6. Du rec. Nt

[southernyankeebelle]

7. I was thinking about the warning Naomi Klein wrote about. To bad no one

in congress or senate listened.. Of course they don't care they have all they need. We are the little people.

[truedelphi]

55. She has not only listed some very scary warnings, she has

Documented how any time that the "Capitalists" have to swing "their nation's" economic agenda into austerity programs for the middle class and poor, with a junta like approach to economics, we end up with either:

One) a mafia running things as happens now in the former Soviet Union
Two) a junta running things, as happened in Chile after Allende was murdered
Three) or else something resembling the Third Reich

I see our current style of government as combining some aspects of the above three. And I don't see us as a democracy any more - we are merely a plutocratic kleptocracy.

[southernyankeebelle]

56. I think we are the 3rd one. Many on the right won't open their eyes until its to late.

They are to busy hating the black man in the white house and the dems. When it is finally completed they will blame the left. The left never wins, ever.

[KoKo]

8. As Krugman Points out and Rahm Emmanuel said: "Never let a Crisis Go to Waste"

from Krugman:

"the drive for austerity was about using the crisis, not solving it. And it still is."

Emannuel's words ring true for this...starting with the TARP Bank BAILOUT...that drove Obama into his policies. Not policies he might have wanted to do ...but policies already laid out for him...that he would follow.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

9. K&R

[WillyT]

10. Yes Siree !!!

& Rec !!!

[lovuian]

11. Its about screwing the worker and taking all support systems away

making them slaves to their rich masters

They are tired of the workers having their quiet nice lives ....with their medicare and social security
they want it ALL ...the Greed is avarice monster that wants more and more

the worker will have to fight them all over again but it will be fast and swift this time

Europe has to be destroyed because of its successful socialistic programs from education healthcare and quality of life
Americans are going to view the Europeans with envy ...and their Socialists
Marx is right ...the worker will rise up ...its inevitable and they know it

[kenny blankenship]

12. Every time pro-elite policies fail

be they free trade policies, or financial deregulation, or union busting or other policies directed towards lowering wages, or fiscal policies lowering taxes and cutting govt services the ONLY plan b you hear and will ever hear from the rightwing is MORE AND HARSHER pro-elite policies. Wages must be lower still! Unions must be broken up and their leaders jailed! The government must cut taxes in order to balance its budget! We're in this mess because the government is paying old folks to go on living after their usefulness to all but pet food manufacturers is at an end! I'd be a millionaire already from my sheet rock installation and vitamin supplement business if only the government wasn't taking all my money and giving it to lazy minorities!

But this is neither surprising nor confined to economics. Rightwing policy is NEVER to be measured against its promises to make some situation better, never judged by its outcomes. Those promises are merely tactical: rightwing policies are right a priori the way religion is right in the eyes of the true believer. Because it's right. Because that's the way it was (supposedly) in the Golden Age past. Because God fucking said so. Whether you're talking economics or war, the rightwing view is held to be the natural or divinely ordained state of affairs existing among men. Rightwing policy is correct by default: the outcome is "right" because the principle is "right" - instead of the other way round. Any lingering negative conditions are said to be the persistent corruptions introduced by liberals who think too much and try to impose Utopian blueprints upon the crooked building materials of Humanity. If George W. Bush is widely perceived as a failure and a disaster by the end of his Presidency, then he is magically transmuted into a liberal. The answers to any disappointments caused by rightwing policies are either A) We need to go even further up Mussolini's asshole into overtly declared rightwing corporate fascism or B) of course you're unhappy with the outcome of our Godly policies, you're a liberal or not a true American and therefore God wants you to be unhappy.

[freshwest]

20. Most excellent rant. I only differ with the first sentence. There was no failure:

He explains what I've thought all along, much better than I could. These people are not stupid. Neither was Bush. It was only his lack of guile that made people think that, as he was a poor actor.

If we pat ourselves on the back saying he made mistakes, we delude ourselves. When we claim that 'no one would do' this or that bad thing... We fail to grasp that what we think is bad, they see as a good and they think we are stupid for not understanding their game.

And the impoverishment of millions is a business model. The byproducts are not from mistakes. Not everyone suffers from depressions, wars and the collapse of governments. In fact, there is so much profit to be made by disasters, these things are pushed to happen when they could be avoided.

Obama is trying to prevent the winner take all game plan from succeeding, but holds few cards in a high stakes game. The GOP (Greedy Oligarchs Party) is calling his hand, and we are the chips on the table. Our outrage is justified, but we had better direct it at the right place or we will be used.

JMHO, though.

[chervilant]

63. We ARE being used

and will continue to be factory fodder, service industry drones and expendable military casualties until enough of the Hoi Polloi rises up and says "NO MORE!"

[JHB]

64. An appropriate Parenting quote to this topic:

"The rich only want one thing, and that's everything."

[BOG PERSON]

14. where do keynesians think value comes from?

[girl gone mad]

23. What is "value"?

Krugman is a neo-Keynesian, not a Keynesian (wish he was actually the latter).

[Zorra]

33. Love. nt

[hifiguy]

47. "Value" in an artificial construct.

It has no "intrinsicness" if you will, nothing that is measurable by any scientific metric. You are a fool.

[BOG PERSON]

54. just because something is a social construct

doesn't mean it's unreal or unquantifiable. why do have a karl marx avatar if you think value is subjective?

[Confusious]

65. The food I eat has value

It keeps me alive.

clothes keep me from being exposed to the elements and dying. they have value.

I think we could measure those values scientifically.

Adherance to ideology in the the face of reality has no value.

[bleever]

15. Give the man a Pulitzer to go with his Nobel.

Brilliant article, simple explanation.

[snappyturtle]

16. WOW! Kudos to Krugman! This needs to be said. nt

[Jake2413]

17. God I love Paul Krugman

And I'm glad he is speaking loud and often. Now, if someone will only listen.

[hifiguy]

49. Welcome to DU, Jake!

I agree, 100%

[JEB]

18. I've already got

a fairly austere life. How about some of the high fliers lead a slightly less opulent life style?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

19. That's right. That is why I started this thread a few weeks ago...

...that was trashed, but I stand by what I wrote and perhaps Krugman is finally "getting it."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=647460

[greiner3]

24. " economic recovery was never the point; the drive for austerity was about using the crisis, not"

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[harmonicon]

25. Duh!! (nt)

[dinopipie]

26. Gee Mr Krugman one does not need a Phd in Economics or the Nobel Prize to see what is happening

Anybody remotely paying attention can easily figure out what is going on and why.

[caseymoz]

27. Austerity: the rich demanding to be paid

They're the ones who, by and large, own the debt. The reason why it's always brought up in a serious economic crisis, even though it has never brought a recovery and has caused worldwide disasters (the rise of Hitler) is because the object is never really to bolster the economy, but to make sure the wealthy get their principle and interest no matter how bad the economy gets.

[ewagner]

28. Shock Doctrine....pure and simple

Freidman knew how to get his unpopular programs through...shock and awe...either economically or militarily...create a crisis and jump in with "the solution"...which happens to be complete dismantling of the New Deal and every other social program the conservatives hate.

Did I mention that Naomi Klein documented all this perfectly?

[kentuck]

30. Educate America

We need a campaign to educate the workers of this country. The times are changing. The wealthy want to dismantle all social programs for the workers and the people and then compete with each other for the spoils. It's all a big game to them.

We need another word for "unionize" but with the same purpose. The people need to hang together or they will hang separately. They are not only losing their economic freedom, they are losing their constitutional freedoms as well.

Employers have perfected their productivity models. They are now measuring productivity from workers in seconds. They are documenting these numbers and will pit one worker against another if their productivity slips.

The majority of workers do not make enough money to save for a rainy day. They live from day to day and week to week. Their wages have stagnated for 30 years.

People are being manipulated. We need an education movement.

[ewagner]

31. Thanks Kentuck!

[kentuck]

32. ewagner

[Agony]

39. the simple truth

[hifiguy]

41. You, sir, have driven the nail through the 2 x 4.

Brilliant!!

[HiPointDem]

57. +1

[flamingdem]

34. BIG DUH

What's infuriating is that it took THIS LONG for the halfway intelligent media to get hip to the repuke agenda.

[solarman350]

35. The "Official" Krugman-to-Populace Translator: George Carlin

[kentuck]

38. That is a classic!

It should be taught in kindergarten.

[shcrane71]

37. Love that two Krugman posts are at the top of the greatest threads.

One of the many reasons DU keeps folks coming back.

[fascisthunter]

40. bout' time somebody mainstream says it

jesus... it's not as if it was a secret.

[rhett o rick]

42. k

[Egalitarian Thug]

45. Another winner for Dr. Krugman. K&R n/t

[FedUpWithIt All]

48. And i'd rec again if i could. n/t

[L0oniX]

50. ...and if that doesn't work they will spike the water supplies with...

ZOMBIE maker chemicals. They are testing it right now.

[FiveGoodMen]

51. Absolutely right!

[Prophet 451]

52. We always knew that was what the ConDems were doing

The bastard scum Tories haven't even attempted to hide it.

[Martin Eden]

53. "the drive for austerity was about using the crisis, not solving it"

That's it, in a nutshell.

This is all part of the strategic plan to Starve The Beast and shrink government so they can drown it in a bathtub.

They drove up huge deficits with tax cuts, wars, & Wall Street fraud, and now they're using the "crisis" they created to advance the rest of their agenda.

[protect our future]

58. I think Krugman is a little late because

most everyone here at DU realized this long ago. Bout time Krugman caught up to us.

[Ruby the Liberal]

67. You are joking, right?

[Odin2005]

59. The DLC twit Rahm admitted as such in 2008...

...when he said to never let a crisis go to waste.

[napoleon_in_rags]

60. You can acknowledge that's the game, but the question is whether the necessity to act is real.

So are nations at a point where they now find it necessary to cut their spending, or are they at a point where they perceive it necessary to cut their spending, but it isn't?

[Fire Walk With Me]

61. Kicking with all possible strength.

[shanti]

66. outstanding article!

paul krugman nailed it