Father and son dead, 2 wounded after shootout at gun shop

[exboyfil]

http://www.wlox.com/story/31040532/2-dead-2-wounded-after-shootout-at-gun-shop

So who was the good guy with a gun?


The wife of the gun shop owner, who was at the counter, called her husband and son to de-escalate the situation. Both father and son pairs began to argue, resorting to physical violence and eventually gunfire.

The gun shop owner and his son were pronounced dead on the scene.

[VMA131Marine]

1. Two people dead a two seriously injured

and all over $25. Hope the injured idiots have health insurance or we'll all be paying for the hundreds of thousands of dollars that their medical care will probably cost. So much for an armed society being a polite society.

[EL34x4]

5. They'll be receiving health care in prison

So, yes, we'll be paying for it.

[UCmeNdc]

35. Notice how the article and news reports left out the names of the shooters

When the police want to smooth over the situation they always never name all of the criminals involved in the press.

[UCmeNdc]

2. Looks like the gun shop owners lost this battle.

[Hoyt]

3. That's what we have walking around armed in this country. Stupid yahoos.

[leftyladyfrommo]

4. We had a similar situation here in KC

3 armed guys went into a gun store to steal guns. The owner came out shooting. He was killed. I think 1 of the robbers was wounded.

If the owner had just let the guys take guns and leave probably no one would have been injured.

4 young men were taken into custody. 3 from 8nside the store and 1 wiring in the car.

[JonathanRackham]

6. Is that the same article?

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. I don't think so.

Ours was months ago . It was out in Johnson County, I think.

The owner'S wife wasn't hurt. But the owner was killed.

[JonathanRackham]

9. Thanks I see the two stories now.

One was criminal, one was idiots.

[leftyladyfrommo]

10. The gun store has since reopened

To great fanfare .

[Fast Walker 52]

8. insane and horrible

[sinkingfeeling]

11. Those that live by the sword, die by the sword.

[ileus]

12. Where did the wife go?

She should have had a shotgun handy, or at least stood to the left or right of the of the two "customers" that would have thrown some doubt in their chances of success.

Or even better would have been for the wife to stay put, bring in the husband to discuss the issue at hand, and the son moved off to their side.


I'd really like to see the video with audio of how this happened.

[exboyfil]

14. Or she could have given them the $25 and the gun

and asked them to never come back.

I am sure she is questioning her decision now. I don't know how much business this store did, and whether $25 would have been significant for them.

I don't see how the two surviving customers are going to avoid a murder charge. Even if it is physical the shopkeeper has rights which do not extend to the customers. On the street it might be a different matter. A battery is significant provocation to pull a gun, and pulling a gun is obviously a life threatening situation thus warranting self defense.

[JonathanRackham]

15. I have to believe there were surveillance cameras.

Let the idiot walk and call the cops.

Rule #1: Win an argument by knowing how to avoid it.

[Snobblevitch]

16. "Let the idiot walk?"

Do you think it was the shop owner who fired first?

[JonathanRackham]

17. That's what surveillance cameras are for.

Customer acts like a dick, call cops, let cops n court handle it. What was a civil matter became a criminal matter.

[Snobblevitch]

19. Have you seen any video of this altercation?

I have not. I only read the story at the link. It does not have many details. I think the customer pulled out a gun and shot first. Are you saying that at that point the shop owner should have called 911, assuming he could use a phone and actually speak?

[Egnever]

21. Sounds to me like it was the shop owner who created the situation

Charging someone for not fixing something is a disgusting policy. Not something to shoot someone over to be sure but I would be willing to bet the kind of person that charges people when they don't even complete the repair is a huge asswipe in their other dealings with people.

My guess given the limited info in the article..

The patron asked for his gun, the wife said they couldn't fix it but it would be $25 to get it back still broken. The customer balked and refused to pay, wife called husband and son who proceeded to try to act tough instead of waiving the fee and found out they weren't as tough as all their guns made them think they were.

Not much info in the article so I could be totally off base but the $25 fee for not fixing something screams asshat to me.

[Snobblevitch]

22. If they did work on the gun, but were not yet finished, then a fee would be reasonable.

[Egnever]

23. For what?

No it wouldn't

When you get your car fixed you think it would be reasonable for them to charge you extra fees cause they haven't finished the repair yet?

I sure as hell don't and would never give my business to any repair shop that tried to pull nonsense like that on me.

[Snobblevitch]

25. If you bring your car to a mechanic and he

diagnoses the problem and disassembles, the car and you decide he is charging uou too much for the repair, you owe him for the work he has done and for reassembling the parts to your car.

[Egnever]

30. If i bring my car to a mechanic I get an estimate before the work begins

That is when I decide if it is too much not after and I don't go to mechanics who blow their estimate.

Guns aren't really complicated machines there is no excuse for not having a good estimate of the repair cost in advance.

[Snobblevitch]

31. Ok, let's go back to the gun.

A guy a gun in and asks for it to be fixed. He takes the gun apart, identifies the problem, and is waiting for parts. The gun owner demands his gun back. Is it not reasonable for the gunsmith to be paid for the work he has done?

[Egnever]

32. Nope

Again Guns are not that complicated a competent repair shop should have no problem identifying the issue and knowing what needs to be replaced. Not to mention you can fully disassemble most guns in minutes.

The idea it is some huge burden to diagnose the problem that they need to be compensated for does not sound even remotely reasonable to me.


Edited to add.

I run a computer repair service and I have never nor would I ever charge my customers to diagnose a problem and give a quote for the cost of repairs. It may be my bias in how I treat my own customers that colors my feelings on this. It also may be why I have many of the same customers 15 years later. They know I am honest and up front with them and am not looking to tack on fees. I would certainly never charge them if the problem was not repaired.

[beevul]

36. Time is time.

Guns may not be "that complicated", however...

Lets remember that when one discusses a gun, one is discussing a mechanical device, for which very few 'bolt on' replacement parts exist.

That means machining, and often polishing/honing a part by hand, so that it fits properly. Properly being defined as within specified tolerances, mated to a part that already has wear.

Those things don't happen for free, and machinist time is 75+ dollars an hour, gunsmiths I would guess are easily double that.

I would certainly never charge them if the problem was not repaired.

What you do with your time, and the value you put on it, are your business, but the rest of the world expects to be paid for their time, as their time is valuable, and finite. Because it IS their time.

[Nac Mac Feegle]

24. I was under the impression that contract law was sacrosanct among the Libertarian types

They dropped off a gun at a shop for evaluation / repair. They undoubtedly had to sign a document (contract) for the gun shop to do the work, if standard procedure is followed.
Therefore they are under obligation to pay for the services rendered.
To reclaim the gun without paying for the services rendered is theft, doing so by threatening with weapons is Armed Robbery. Using the weapons (in this case the guns) is a Aggravating Factor.
Since Armed Robbery is a Felony, and there were deaths resulting, the Felony Murder Rule is now in effect. (Someone's going away for a loooong time.)

The poor, benighted owner of the gun store ( a Small Business Owner!!!!!) is the victim here, and was Exercising his Second Amendment Rights in Defense of his Livelihood from the Assault by Criminals, possibly drug-addled, even. (Don't you watch Moonshiners on the TeeVee box?)

The important thing that the NRA will want to know: What is the fate of the poor helpless gun?


Once you start to break it all down into the binary black / white paradigm, even the simplest of things can get terribly complicated. But isn't that the way these "Sovereign Citizen" types like it; arguing Byzantine interpretations to ridiculous lengths?

See 'reductio ad absurdum' for further expansion on the whole situation.

[Wounded Bear]

13. I think all gun shops should be gun free zones...

[DirkGently]

18. An armed society is a society

... in which a $25 dispute becomes a life-or-death conflict.

It's not funny -- it's tragic.

But this is where the advertising campaign-for-firearms-presented-as-pseudo-Constitutional-philosophy has taken us.

[Egnever]

20. Given the limited information in the article

I am going with gun store owners being assholes.

$25 fee despite not fixing gun is a dick move for any repair service. Certainly no one should ever be shot over it but since I both despise gun shops and asshole repair services I am going to go with the patrons were the good guys and the gun owners decided they were tough guys and found out not so much over $25 dollars.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

26. I'm so glad the ammosexuals have shown us all how real men settle up

Pussies like us who shake our heads just can't understand what it's like to be real men and true patriots!!!

[hollowdweller]

27. At least everyone involved was a gun owner.

Would have been worse if it was innocent bystander. At least they were all ready to fight with guns and lived by the sword.

[sarisataka]

28. Gun owners are

Lesser humans aren't they

[sarisataka]

29. It was only gun humping

Ammosexual scum ejaculating at each other. No loss, actually helps make the world better. A couple of racist vigilantes won't walk the streets while totin anymore.
Too bad the shop didn't have more customers...




I shouldn't need to but to be clear-

[Eleanors38]

33. YEA! Gunz in GD again! Oh wait. It never left.

[exboyfil]

34. Facebook of the customer who was the father

https://www.facebook.com/audymccool

True blue Republican all the way. Even has a meme up showing Obama and the number of mass shootings. Donald Trump supporter. Get looking while it is still open.

[Rex]

37. I guess letting them go with the money was too easy, a point had to be made.

The human race is too stupid to own guns. That includes the military. We need to go back to knives.