I have a possible fix for the Malheur Wildlife Refuge standoff

[passiveporcupine]

They are peacefully protesting, right? (well, they say they are, but their guns say something else). Well why can't Oregon (and anyone else who wants) protest back? Why don't a large group of people get together to do a peaceful sit-in protest at the refuge. Start it off with saying a group of residents want to come out to the refuge to have a meeting with the leadership there. Inside, where it's warm, and schedule a time and day. Have another, larger group follow them out to be a silent protest outside. There are not enough militants out there to overpower a huge crowd.

If the Bundy's let them into the building (they have let the press in), then get enough of them in for a supposed meeting, but instead do a sit-in in the kitchen (fill the damn thing up) so nobody can use the fridges, stoves, or sinks or counters. Plan on staying there for some time if necessary. Hell, you'll have food and water right there.

Let the Bundy's know you aren't leaving until they do, and in the meantime, they don't get to use the kitchen at all. Then if you can get them in, let in more people to do a sit-in throughout the rest of the building (bathrooms too)...filling the whole place so the militants can't even function any more. They will be forced outside to other buildings or sheds.

I think this could work. The trick is in finding enough people who can commit to a sit-in long enough. And of course getting into the compound.

The Bundy's say they will not shoot first, so force yourself past the guards if necessary. And no weapons. Do NOT bring weapons. If the Bundy's do shoot first, they will be hauled off by the FBI. But I think if the crowds were big enough, they would just back off and not know what to do.

They cannot call what you are doing unconstitutional. Because it's what they are doing, only you won't be armed.

Thoughts?

[Pharaoh]

1. Brilliant Idea!

[Aerows]

2. Interesting solution.

I'd like to see some citizens in the area take this right to them, but I know that will end in tragedy. You can't reason with people that left reason 5 miles back on the highway with their morals, children and family.

[passiveporcupine]

3. Fight fire with fire

I'm not sure the locals would or even should get involved. They've been stalked and threatened enough by these goons already, and they don't want anyone knowing where they live. I think it would be far better for people further away to do this. And it should be done with a rented bus or something so individuals cars are not out there to be vandalized.

Hell, I'd go if I could. I'll see if I can find who started up some of the protests around the state and pass on my idea.

[Aerows]

7. I would not get involved

because I know people that have this frame of mind. It seems okay to sing and counter protest, but you will get shot, and the police have more disdain for "peaceniks" than those toting guns.

I suggest staying the hell out of it, because eventually someone on one side or the other is going to draw, and peace will be the last thing on their minds. Putting your hands up and screaming "peace" is an open invitation for getting gun downed by either side as an example of what happens when "somebody interfered".

[Maedhros]

27. I agree. No matter how 'peaceful' the intent, a confrontation will likely result.[n/t]

[world wide wally]

4. The danger is that the losers in there may decide to be territorial and get violent.

Don't put it past them

[passiveporcupine]

5. They already know if they take one step in that direction

they are dead. The FBI will be on them like a ton of bricks.

They are not expecting anything like this. I think they would be so confused they wouldn't know how to handle it.

[Quixote1818]

9. Several of them are very unstable and one has a murder conviction

I don't think I would feel comfortable being there. It would just take one nut to be angry you are using his vanilla creamer and go on a murder rampage.

[Aerows]

17. I don't think they know that

and I don't think that is the reality of the situation. They are coming and going as they please to get supplies or welcome new recruits. They have intimidated and harassed the residents that live there who are affiliated with the Malheur Refuge and county authorities enough that they shut down a community meeting for safety reasons.

In 2014, documented, photographed people took up sniper positions against FBI agents while owing $1M in fees. Directly threatened to kill them. LEOs for crying out loud.

They are walking around, free as birds and now we have this situation. Oh, look, they are still walking around free, waving their guns. (I'm sorry if I sound frustrated, but I really am - not at you, but the failure for anyone in the government to put a stop to this.)

In contrast we have a militia marching on the Flint Michigan City Hall because they threatened to take away the children from parents that refuse to pay their water bill because the water is poisoned.

To be honest, I want the latter to succeed, because they have an absolutely just cause.

The former? They are likely financed by the Koch brothers who would like nothing more than to decimate federal wildlife refuges for profit.

[Aerows]

6. These Talibanjo people heading for the refuge

are evidence that evolution can go in reverse.

[maxsolomon]

24. Talibanjo is really good

I like it more than Y'all Qaeda.

[sweetapogee]

8. fantasic idea

Are you going to set up a 24 hour live feed when you make entrance to the kitchen?

[Megahurtz]

10. Most people are too afraid of them.

You're not dealing with people here that are of sound mind.

[oldandhappy]

11. Watching the snow storm on the east coast

makes me want t do a snow dance for Oregon. Two feet of snow would make a difference in this stand-off. Snacks would not be delivered for several days!

[BadgerKid]

12. Speaking of that, is Westboro church available? n/t

[Quixote1818]

14. I like this idea better! nt

[safeinOhio]

13. I like it, has

Gandi ring to it. A mass of 1,000,000 peaceful unarmed citizens.

[0rganism]

15. Reverse Hostages! nice

trojan horse insertion is a nice idea too

[Binkie The Clown]

16. The Bundy gang would just get pissed off and start smashing faces.

The violence would escalate quickly. It's too dangerous. They just need to seal off the premises. Nobody enters, and anyone that leaves doesn't get back in.

[Aerows]

18. Sealing off the premises

is the only thing that is going to keep this from becoming a massive conflagration and destruction of the wildlife refuge.

These people are squatting at this point. They have guns, and think they have a right to be there because they are toting rifles.

Prevent communications from flowing, prevent supplies from flowing, prevent more dimwits from coming and going.

That this has not been done suggests that authorities are prepared to let them roost there so long that they hatch a fresh brood.

Those like the Sheriff of Grant county (in his adjacent to Harney county) has stated that he supports the infiltrating militants.

Then you have the residents of Burns that are scared shitless that their kids will get caught in a firefight between LEO and the Teahawdist.

I cannot fathom why the FBI and local authorities are allowing them to resupply, enjoy the comforts of home.

It makes not a damn bit of sense to me.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. How often do you visit Oregon?

nt

[Binkie The Clown]

22. I Live in Oregon. n/t

[Aerows]

29. In all honesty, Oregon and Washington

are the only two continental states I *haven't* been to.

Does that automatically make me unable to comment? If you feel my opinion is invalid, that's okay.

I'm still going to express it, and you can feel free to disagree with me.

[Binkie The Clown]

34. This morning's headlines: Federal agents seal off occupied Oregon refuge

Huh! Imagine that. It was possible after all.

[enough]

19. A lovely idea, if you could find enough people brave enough to do a sit-in while surrounded

by a bunch of unstable, delusional, paranoid people with guns.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. So what part of the East are you from?

Your idea is to send citizens who would be presumed to be undercover Feds, unarmed into a nest of unstable criminals to wait them out? Oh. Got it.

[passiveporcupine]

30. I live in Oregon

A little over 200 miles from the refuge, and this whole situation has me pissed off. I'm old enough that I don't care if I get shot. But I'm not physically able to make the trip, so I do not know if there are enough other people who would feel the same way I do and just go do it.

It would not work unless enough people showed up (hundreds...no way they'd be construed as undercover feds, cause a lot of them would probably be old people like me). And there is always risk that these wackos would get violent (at least a couple of them), but it's not the people they are angry at, it's the government. The government could easily antagonize them to the point of a firefight, but passive citizens? I kinda doubt it. They know if they hurt passive citizens they'd be cooking their goose in the eyes of the public.

Nice snark though. I wouldn't send anyone. They would choose to go of their own accord.

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. What amount in tourist $$ is spent during birding season.

in support of the local economy? This occupation is going to affect the local businesses, is it not?

I would think that just might put an end to this take over.

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. So the cost of this is roughly $133,400. per day. Included in that

total is $40,000 per day in loss of recreational dollars.

This is insane that these selfish a$$hole$ are allowed to inflict this much financial damage to us all.

[peacebird]

26. Why not go arrest papa Bundy while his boys are away & throw him in jail for nonpayment.

Seize Ammons business equipment, and put liens on their homes to pay for the cost the govt is now incurring because of them.

Seal the refuge, none may enter, arrest any who leave. Block wifi and cell signals.

[louis-t]

28. I have heard of people using this tactic

to remove squatters from a house. Someone bought a house and before they could move in, squatters took over the house. There were several adults and a bunch of kids. The owners couldn't get them to leave. They got a bunch of friends and waited until the front door was open and just walked in. They had pizza and beer and proceeded to get drunk and loud and were shouting obscenities until the squatters left.

[Jim Lane]

31. Recruit a bunch of terminally ill people to try this.

I agree with the comments upthread about the danger. For my part, I would love to help end the occupation, but I admit I'm a coward. My cancer's in remission and I can expect quite a few more years of posting rants on DU. If my diagnosis were radically different, so that I had nothing to lose, I might sign up for your project.

[Retrograde]

32. A great tactic for a populated area

I've been to eastern Oregon. It's beautiful, but stark and sparsely populated - as different from Portland as it can be, and a long day's drive away. As much as I disagree with the Feds letting the Talibanjo get away with what they're doing for as long as they have, it's hard to corral them in the wide open spaces.

[passiveporcupine]

33. I live in a rural area, and I agree

Last edited Wed Jan 27, 2016, 05:18 PM - Edit history (1)

It's not like Portland. And they can't do a lot of damage where they are, in terms of getting innocent citizens killed, but they are terrorizing the small town of Burns.

They can stay there for a long long time, as they already have proved, and that is their intention. So if the Feds can't do anything without starting a fire fight, the only way I see of resolving this is for the people...the citizens of Oregon to stand up and say enough.

And the only way to do that is passively, or else they too will cause a fire fight.

So no resistance...no weapons...no signs and shouting. Just a passive sit-in.

Other than a cop spraying mace onto a crowd of protesters sitting on the ground, have there been other incidents of a passive sit-ins resulting in protesters being killed?

Usually sit-ins are pretty peaceful, and while people are arrested, seldom are they injured (and as far as I know, not killed).

How could the militants legitimately attack protesters without losing their game, which is totally covered in the news. Every little thing they do is covered in the news. Their popularity (and unfortunately, they have a lot of it) would go downhill fast if they were suddenly seen as the bad guy by people who side with them now. And the public would be totally enraged if they hurt or killed anyone.

I'm not sure this would work, but other than something like this, we will just have to sit and wait it out, and I'm not sure that is fair to the people of Burns. I think the militants (some of them, probably not all) are willing to keep this up for as long as they can get away with it.

[lame54]

35. Maybe it's the fear of being shot by delusional movie heroes