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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBlack men only: UConn's proposed 'learning community' sparks controversy
As part of its Learning Community Program, the university has established "houses" designed to match students with like-minded peers, in order to foster development and to "make UConn feel like home," according to the school's website. In addition to houses aimed at environmentally-conscious students or nursing majors, for example, a new house under construction will cater to African-American men only.
The SCHOLA2RS House ‒ which stands for Scholastic House Of Leaders who are African American Researchers and Scholars ‒ "is a scholastic initiative to groom, nurture, and train the next generation of leaders to address grand challenges in society through the promotion of academic success in undergraduate programs at the University of Connecticut and in competitive graduate programs," the university said.
The only one of the "learning communities" based on gender or race, the house is scheduled to open in the fall semester of 2016, WTIC reported. SCHOLA2RS will be located in a 200,000-square-foot dorm that will hold more than 700 other students, according to officials connected with the program.
"African American males graduate at a lower rate than their peers," said Dr. Erik Hines, a professor of educational psychology at UConn who focuses on research pertaining to African-American male academic achievement, especially in the fields of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM). "So the University of Connecticut was forward-thinking in bringing a solution to this issue."
In 2012, the graduation rate for all UConn students was 82.5 percent, while the graduation rate for black males was 54 percent. That was the main impetus to build the new house, according to Hines.
"It is a space for African American men to one, come together and validate their experiences that they may have on campus," Hines added. "Number two, it's also a space where they can have conversation and also talk with individuals who come from the same background who share the same experience."
The unusual move has prompted an outpouring of criticism. On the anonymous subreddit board for "all things UConn," commenters have expressed concern with "identity politics" on college campuses and students that "want to hide in a shell and want people to hand them things." Some are alarmed at the fact that "UConn is considering racially segregated housing," and that the house is leaving out African-American women.
Students and others have pointed out that the housing is optional, and therefore not quite comparable to racially segregated housing. Others have supported the house in light of its goals, which include boosting academic performance of male African-American students.
https://www.rt.com/usa/330645-uconn-black-scholars-housing/
I'm all for giving black men a better chance at success in college, but I don't feel that comfortable with this so-called "learning community". The house isn't entirely separated from other students of race so I wouldn't call it complete segregation, but I am concerned that improving the academic performance of black men involved giving them their own little dorm away from other races. I don't think that's the way to go imo.
What do you all think?
Behind the Aegis
(53,921 posts)Personally, if students have asked for this, I support it. Often, minority groups do this informally, when it is done in a structured way, it allows for extra programming geared toward a specific group which is additional education, IMO. When I was a residence hall coordinator, I had a building which had an "Umoja house", but mine was mixed (male and female). We hired a very specific RA for the floor and certain requirements were put in place. We had a very good return rate. Higher than most floors and one of the few floors which had a waiting list, and never an open room.
Universities have gender specific halls, the freshman-only halls, they have athletic halls, so why not groups which are underrepresented or have requested such a space? Keep in mind such spaces aren't about "keep others out" but rather about building community from within.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)Majority white university. We got our dorm assignment for the Semester before room selection. I'm quite proud of the fact that the white girls from Appalachia and Province Quebec were always eager to get in my wing. Both groups tended to come from large poor families and knew their RA was there to give them an ear as they navigated this place filled with kids from big cities and prep parochial educations. Oh - and my Da Bronx and Brooklyn (mostly black children of immigrants from Haiti and Jamaica) too.
The only thing I could think might put fear in people's hearts is the idea that a "large group of black young men" could pose some kind of danger? I dunno . . .
Behind the Aegis
(53,921 posts)I enjoyed having a diverse population as a RA too. However, I can see the benefits in a well-crafted program such as the one described above. I have seen where it has failed at some institutions for lack of interest and others where it excelled. I have seen houses/floors created for Native Americans, Latinos, GLBT, and several other identity based groups. Some will do better than others, but that is the way with many things.
I would say I am surprised at some of the ignorant comments in this thread, but then I would be lying. I find it interesting, though, how many jump to it's "required segregation"; it isn't 'required'. Though not using the term, you can hear the whistles of "reverse racism" in some of the comments almost loud enough to make one's ears bleed. Then there are the cries of "self-segregation" and how they should be wanting to be around others, which completely ignores that the students, through daily classes and activities, are always around "others."
At the last one I supervised, participants could only stay for two years, unless they became staff. They had to participate in a predetermined amount of the programs or risked being moved. I can understand people's reactions to some extent, but the idea here is to provide further education, not segregation/separation. We didn't have any fears of the "large group of black men" at ours, likely because it was a co-ed environment, but I imagine it is something single-sex male versions might face.
delrem
(9,688 posts)This isn't something just invented.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)They may be coming from the same weak educational background and need the peer support and access to the same tutors and assistance to succeed.
This makes me go along to get along with free college for everyone.
IF we acknowledge that the majority of black students from inner cities attending in Fall 2017 were deliberately and maliciously cheated out of an equal elementary, middle, and high school education and they will need extra help when they get there -
I'm all for it. Sounds like UConn is preparing for Free College For Everyone to make sure those kids redlined into ghettos are as successful as those who had posh suburban educations.
FYI - my father was a Tuskeegee grad and my uncles and grandfather were Morehouse grads.
Being in a segregated dorm didn't hurt them. Black people tend to reach back and pull each other up "behind the back of America" and these connections we make at University last throughout our lives.
As much as America thinks it is ready for us to get rid of these connections and networking tools - America is wrong. I'll be 43 in two weeks and even if they legislates our organizations away - we will defy this country. I will make a point of forming the underground railroad to The Links membership.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I wish them the best
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)But let black men try to make their own community, and shit hits the fan...
cali
(114,904 posts)interests.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Really?
cali
(114,904 posts)but I really loath dishonest shit like you're pushing.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's race-based in its definition; I didn't realize anybody was denying that.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Or is that racist?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I'd take that as it comes
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I would certainly expect some white students to start demanding whites-only dorms. And most DUers in this thread will not really be in a position to object.
mythology
(9,527 posts)There is no large scale discrimination against whites in this country. As a straight white male, I get to go through life with a certain amount of inherent privilege that isn't given to minorities or women or members of the lgbtq community.
It would be at least questionable for me as a white guy to try to create a community that was designed, or could reasonably be perceived as trying to maintain that privilege. In theory this dorm is designed to help mitigate the structural disadvantages minorities have and do so in a safer setting. If I need help on something, it's easier to ask for that help if I know the people around me have gone through the same things.
clarice
(5,504 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)Do whites educated from preschool to last day of high school in posh suburbs drop out of college at the rate that young black men do?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)better than the rt work up in the OP. The Daily Campus piece quotes actual student views and seems more complete.
The focus is on learning not living for ScHOLA2Rs House
http://dailycampus.com/stories/2016/1/26/the-focus-is-on-learning-not-living-for-schola2rs-house
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)presenting detailed, student based and largely African American points of view. RT puts 'Black Men Only' as the title and also uses inaccurate language ' is building a special residence for those who identify as African-American males' in that there is no dedicated building being created but just an experimental 'pod' within the dorm. Fox News does the same sort of thing but they at least say it is a section of a dorm and not a special residence being built.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)that retains some residential connections.
Like I said, sounds like a really cool idea.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)Sc-hola-two-r-s what does it mean?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)frizzled
(509 posts)Same goes for ALL groups. It's a basic right to have freedom of association.
branford
(4,462 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 31, 2016, 06:04 PM - Edit history (1)
In this instance, the state is limiting residence to a campus dorm on the basis of race.
Although I understand and support the intent and aims of the special residence, it might face legal difficulties if challenged, particularly if a group of white male students demand similar accommodations.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)for 43 young men. A corner of a floor of a dorm open to all. The article cited in the OP suggests an entire facility is being specially constructed for one type of student but that is not the case at all.
branford
(4,462 posts)regardless of whether its a whole building, floor or small section. A state university is restricting certain housing based on race.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)if they want to be in this housing. I support them if they do.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Does this also apply to housing associations, in your opinion? If a housing association voluntarily voted to divide into a blacks-only section and a whites-only section, you would be OK with that?
frizzled
(509 posts)If black or white or Asian people want to live with others who look like them, they have the right to do that. I'm against social engineering projects like forced busing, which seems to usually do more harm than good and often actually lead to "white flight".
In reality segregation happens whether you want to make it legal or not. US cities tend to be racially segregated.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)to live in certain places?
Because that is what would be analogous to what the university is doing.
frizzled
(509 posts)The difference is that the government doesn't own the housing, so they don't have a direct right to say who can live there.
Provided that people of other races are not being put at a disadvantage and have somewhere else to live, there's nothing fundamentally objectionable about the concept of a neighborhood for one race.
It's not something I would personally support, but if sufficiently many black property owners want to have blacks-only neighborhoods, I would not deny them that right.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)into a white section and a black section, separate but equal, if you will, you would be OK with that.
All I will say is that I understand why you also support the university's policy.
frizzled
(509 posts)It seems you have trouble understanding others have different preferences to you.
Personally I don't care what race someone is, but I also do not want to force everyone in the world to agree with me. If segregation makes black people happier, I say let them at it.
Your personal moral objection to segregation does not outweigh the democratic right to freedom of association.
From a strictly evidence based point of view, forced integration of the races by social engineering measures such as forced busing has had lousy outcomes.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)frizzled
(509 posts)Like I said - the US is already one of the most segregated countries in the world.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)the Fair Housing Act.
If realtors are caught discriminating based on race, they can be sued and the government can punish them. Not saying its always enforced, nor provable to be enforced, and because of many reasons, there is heavy segregation nationwide, but that doesn't make it good or right.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)What.the.fuck?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)You think African Americans chose to live in specific neighborhoods? You have a great deal of reading you need to do because you are frankly completely ignorant about the history of housing discrimination in the US.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)How providing peer support to young men who were redlined into that map and thus were cheated out of decent public school education - and fostering an environment of "we work together to succeed" translates to . . . I'm not sure?
CTyankee
(63,890 posts)I can well understand their need for mutual support, depending on how white their school is. I know that as a woman I would much prefer an all female dorm to a co-ed one, not to keep females pure (the rationale back when I was in college) but because women wanted "safe space."
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)wordpix
(18,652 posts)Women, Hispanics, whites---lots of students would qualify. I don't get it why it's males only, and African American at that.
Wondering if this has something to do with UConn's men's athletic program.
CTyankee
(63,890 posts)I dunno if it has anything to do with the athletic program, tho. My husband is the sports guru and I'll ask him...
wordpix
(18,652 posts)or in real life. Obviously, we will choose our own friends based on whatever. But the issue is the learning housing environment. IMO, it should be open to all.
All students need structure, a quiet space to study, and most students need rules like no headphone use (for loud music) while studying ---all for concentration on academic tasks. I assume this dorm will provide those things, but what do race and gender have to do with providing and using this type of housing? Students who need a quiet, learning-focused environment should be allowed to apply for this housing, IMO, no matter if they are male, female, black, white, purple or spotted.
UConn can separate genders, if that's what people want, by floor.
I again wonder if this has something to do with the male athletes at UConn. Athletics are huge and there are many African Americans on the basketball and football teams.
CTyankee
(63,890 posts)Some kids have never been away from home before and may need a year in a more supportive dorm. As they get used to the campus and class life environments where lots of different people participate, they can move into the mixed dorms more easily. I don't see what is wrong with that.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)learning to adjust and that goes for all colors and creeds. I don't know about freshmen's support but I do know about learning environments. Females need them just as much as males; whites and Hispanics as much as African Americans. Open to all who are interested!
CTyankee
(63,890 posts)I didn't know that but evidently he did. I guess that means they room together. It's part of the team cohesiveness thing...
branford
(4,462 posts)and the entire basis of liberal arguments supporting such programs as affirmative actions?
Although I very much doubt it was your intent, but praising the "benefits of singular ethnic groupings" in higher education reeks of "separate but equal."
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)It's actually an improvement for UConn, which reported a 17 percent graduation rate last year and an 8 percent graduation rate just two seasons ago.
The national average for all sports is a graduation rate of 86 percent. In men's basketball, it's 77 percent.
The UConn women's basketball team had a 100 percent graduation rate, according to the NCAA.
The latter figure may help shed some light on why ScHOLA2RS is for black men only.
CTyankee
(63,890 posts)my husband is a HUGE women Husky team fan and has been since forever. Love me that Geno...
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)It had long been rumored that Geno would move across Gampel to coach the men's team after Calhoun hung it up. But then, Kevin Ollie came roaring out of the gate with a national title!
CTyankee
(63,890 posts)was cheering them on, altho I don't like sports generally...I remember the greats like Sue Bird...all the Wonder Years...
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)I have long believed that the success of the women's team motivated the men to snap out of their years-long choke-in-the-second-round streak and finally win it all.
CTyankee
(63,890 posts)Uconn sports, or any sports for that matter with him...but yes, it was a nice ride...
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I don't see the problem (though I'm not sure why it's men only). It's not like it's true segregation as they're still surrounded by white kids, go to the same classes, etc. It sounds more like an optional live in support group. It's not the only learning group there either.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And for those supporting it, how would you feel about a university building a house that was open only to white students?
frizzled
(509 posts)People have a right to associate with anyone else they choose. I don't have to support their personal preferences to believe they have a right to express that preference.
Just as I don't have to support Westboro Baptist to support their right to free speech. Get it?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)"Freedom of association" would be where students get to pick themselves where they want to live, and who they want to live with, without the need for any racial enforcement by the university authorities ("sorry Joe, you look too white to me to be allowed to live there!"
frizzled
(509 posts)How are students supposed to get the blacks-only dorm they want otherwise? Built it themselves?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)the university should tell them no, we don't do mandatory racial segregation anymore.
And you can guarantee that if a segregated blacks-only dorm is allowed in this case, white students somewhere will demand whites-only dorms. And based on your arguments (their "freedom of association", their "demand" for it) you wouldn't really be in a position to object.
frizzled
(509 posts)And I wouldn't oppose whites-only dorms for precisely the same reason. I don't see anything fundamentally objectionable about it; it's a personal choice.
My own preference, were I a student, would be to live in an integrated dorm, as I don't give a damn what color people are, but I don't believe in telling others who they ought to want to associate with.
I don't see why this is hard to understand. It's as though people have trouble understanding others may have different preferences to them.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)to be enforced by the university, I would tell them to go pound sand.
frizzled
(509 posts)Not so much Homo Sovieticus but Homo Integrationismus though...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)should their democratic wishes have been respected?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)A college making a 5 unit dorm that only accepts guys of the same race is racial segregation.
Association != forced racial segregation.
If you can't see the difference, you need to think some more.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)frizzled
(509 posts)Much better if businesses that have racist hiring policies do so in writing and publicize it.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Why are you on this board? This is a place for liberals, progressives and various other leftists, not dixiecrats, segregationists and conservatives.
frizzled
(509 posts)Jim Crow was a caste system set up to harm black people and thoroughly abhorrent.
I don't rule out voluntary segregation under all possible circumstances. If there's a desire for it and it does not harm or disadvantage one group over another.
Our democratic politics are based on an assumption we all have the same interests, but we now know this is false. Some groups of people simply don't get along. Segregation is probably the best solution. It's conservative to oppose segregation under all circumstances.
The important thing is that neither the government nor civil society can 'unmake racism'. There is no tolerance pill, which can cure an individuals negative and hostile attitudes to specific groups. Anders Breivik and Dylann Roof are here to stay. So is hostility to specific minorities, and aggressive expression of that hostility. So are the fanboys: some people will continue to admire Breivik and Roof, and to see their actions as justified.
We can not make people be nice to each other. Despite all its surveillance powers, the United States government can't stop them killing each other either. Nor can European governments, even though the killing may be less frequent, and take a different form.
People hate other people. People want to kill other people. They say so openly. Social media made it possible for each individual to broadcast their attitudes to the world, and the result was a flood of hate and death threats.
What the state can do, is keep them apart. Paradoxically, the fact that individuals hate groups more than other single individuals, makes it easier to separate them. If a white person hates blacks, the state can keep that person away from blacks. If a Christian hates gays, the state can keep that person away from gays. If a feminist hates men, the state can keep her away from men. And it works both ways: if a gay man hates homophobes, the state can keep that person away from homophobes.
I see in America an inability to confront the issue of hatred and hostility. I see platitude after platitude, but a general unwillingness to analyse society and politics. I see millions of reactions, but apparently none of them innovative. Everyone says roughly what you would expect them to say, and they will say it again, after the next racially motivated mass shooting.
Segregation is probably the answer to racism.
This is a Peace Wall in Belfast, Northern Ireland. It segregates Catholics from Protestants. Together with guaranteed Catholic and Protestant governments, it means both groups have their interests represented and they are kept from harming one another.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)n/t
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)human nature, economics and history. I would recommend that you actually study history and the issues surrounding race relations in the United States. I have to admit, the idea of legalizing segregation, or even erecting walls to keeps the races separate is perhaps one of the stupidest things I've seen on this board.
Why don't you keep your misanthropic scheming to yourself, it seems rather obvious you are trying to be edgy.
I do wonder, would your "voluntary" segregation would institute a "one drop" rule or not?
clarice
(5,504 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)One of the big arguments for affirmative action is the unique struggles African Americans have in the educational system. Poorer neighborhoods, men being arrested at extremely high rates, and so on. It sounds more like an extension of that idea. Like a live in support group, for those who want it, to more effectively overcome institutional disadvantages. It's not like they wouldn't be integrated with everyone else in every single other way. It's not the only group that would have their own housing like that either.
branford
(4,462 posts)such as the racially-limited housing at a state university, are incredibly difficult to meet, and affirmative action policies have been forced to grow narrower and narrower on the probable course to oblivion given current legal jurisprudence.
Without proof that UConn has a history of systemic discrimination in housing or similar conduct, generalized notions of segregated housing being good for black men would likely not survive judicial scrutiny should parties decide to challenge the new housing option. I would expect UConn to even go as far as conceding white male-only housing if demanded rather than defend their policy in court.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This is getting ridiculous.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Apparently we're going to make Wallace's dream come true under the guise of progressive thought.
Only at a university could something this stupid be considered enlightened.
clarice
(5,504 posts)wordpix
(18,652 posts)Iris
(15,648 posts)It's not just something UConn made up out of the clear blue.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Thanks in advance!
TipTok
(2,474 posts)... that you might interact with someone different than you.
Setting these folks up for failure...
CTyankee
(63,890 posts)of people who are different from them. Plus sports teams, plus campus activities and clubs according to interest.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)... and the people you live with.
CTyankee
(63,890 posts)activities. They are studying in the library until all hours. Basically, dorm life is catching your zzzs at midnight or 2 a.m. and the rest of the time in class, library, maybe a play rehearsal or singing in group, etc. Living in a busy and youthful college town with a vibrant study body I see those students really on the go around the campus when I go downtown. They chose Yale because of the diverse student body and the opportunities for extra-curricula activities but there are a lot of places where these are common. I don't think there is much time for hiding in your dorm room (but at Yale they have a whole different set up called residential colleges).
Iris
(15,648 posts)Which is being used at many campuses and have shown to improve student success rates.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)I'm scratching my head b/c students with learning problems come in all colors, shapes and both genders. If this is truly a learning-centered approach to housing, why not open it to all (women, white, purple with spots, etc.) who need a quiet, structured learning environment?
It's no secret that students with low standardized test scores and poor academic skills who are at risk are those who come from economically disadvantaged homes/communities. Research has shown this time and again across the nation. White students, Hispanics and women come from poverty, too.
I'm concerned. UConn and the state of CT could only convince me this is a good idea if they opened it up to all who need and want it, and design the building and any programming inside to enhance learning. That means having tutors available, as well as having quiet spaces to study.
But as always, the main issue is why the state, which is hundreds of million$ in the hole, is not helping families and communities at risk but instead is building a huge structure to house African American males...is this a ploy to give black male athletes a boost but not call it that?
Iris
(15,648 posts)Behind the Aegis
(53,921 posts)Facts have no place in this discussion!
Seriously, though, thank you for adding relevant information, including your post about retention and graduation rates being bettered.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)While this troubling trend is most acute among blacks, young men of color in general are underrepresented in colleges and universities. The national college graduation rate of Hispanic men is 41.1 percent and of Native Americans and Alaska natives 33.8 percent. In comparison, the graduation rate for white males is 54.5 percent. Asian/Pacific Islanders have the highest rate, 60.6 percent.
This education gap virtually ensures that men of color, particularly blacks, will continue to have less earning power than their white counterparts and be underrepresented across a broad spectrum of high-paying professions.
The good news is that the problem is being addressed. African-American educators who noticed the declines sounded warning bells several years ago and took the lead in trying to increase the rates of black men attending and completing college. State college systems became involved, too. The bad news is that the problem is persistent and complicated by factors that affect young black men long before they enter college.
Iris
(15,648 posts)And if giving them space to help each other works, I'm all for it.
Iris
(15,648 posts)So weird. I learned how to back up my arguments with facts by coming to DU back around the turn of the century. It's too bad those standards seem to have disappeared.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)want. In the 70s my almost all white small college allowed those of us who wanted to have our own Indian House - this was not a dormitory but it was a house set aside especially for Native American students (and supporters) to hold meetings, study, produce a newsletter, plan events, etc.
Because many of us lived in off campus housing I am not sure how dorm assignments were handled. I am not sure how the black students on campus were handled but I do know that they often attended events at the Indian House.
JI7
(89,240 posts)But i also understand the reality of what black men have to deal with so if this can help i can support it.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)1. I'm uncomfortable with this so it shouldn't happen.
And
2. They need to learn to deal with their discomfort.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Segregation has never worked to advance any race, and will never work. Ever. That is a fact.
When those guys get jobs, they will have less experience around non-blacks, which are 87% of the country. They will therefore be less prepared to work and live around people of other colors. And since this particular project is men only, they will be less prepared to interact with women.
Portray racial isolation as a strength, DU.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Sorry.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)"Was I talking to you?"
You're on a public forum. Anyone can reply to anything.
I was asking your opinion, though I could predict the answer.
I am talking to you.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)But if you want to go there, go right ahead.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I thought this would be the case.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)I think if you want decent facilities without being ripped off, you should pass.
Your gotcha question was pretty shit tbh. Everyone knows whites can and do attend HBCUs and even black frats.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)And you know that, too.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)And HBCUs are now one quarter nonblack
http://time.com/2907332/historically-black-colleges-increasingly-serve-white-students/
Even they realize that diversity is good.
You sound like a white guy who assumes HBCUs are black only. lol
kwassa
(23,340 posts)That doesn't understand the most basic issues in the black community. I am white, but am married to a black woman for a couple decades. I know the issues.
Bluefield State is an anomaly. HBCUS were designed to specifically educate African-Americans. Are you opposed to them on principle?
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Educating African Americans when they were barred from white institutions, that was a noble thing.
And I 100% support them taking nonblack students now that segregation is over. Diversity is good and HBCUs aren't at all opposed to it. My only criticism stems from the complaints I've read about their tuition fees and, at some HBCUs, poor student services.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Universities shouldn't be telling students that they are the wrong race to be living in certain buildings.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)There is none.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Why would a white or Asian join a black house? And do you know that they would be refused if they applied?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Read the fine print. Or, just read the articles.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)as people can always lie about their race to get in.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)That this is a program designed to help black males, not hurt them. You don't seem to care about that.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)has somewhat of an ugly history, and is not an argument that I think people should be advancing in 2016.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)It is not about the ugly history, it is about solving a current problem of the graduation rate of African Americans who do get into college.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)If someone came up with a theory that resegregating the public schools would improve the graduation rates of black students, would you be on board with that?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)The idea is to create a supportive community to aid in the matriculation of black male students. You miss the support concept.
I am sorry you hate them so much.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)on a progressive message board.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)About black issues advanced on a so- called progressive message board.
Also, ignorance about education issues in general.
Neither your area of expertise.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)http://americaswire.org/drupal7/?q=content/black-males-missing-college-campuses
While this troubling trend is most acute among blacks, young men of color in general are underrepresented in colleges and universities. The national college graduation rate of Hispanic men is 41.1 percent and of Native Americans and Alaska natives 33.8 percent. In comparison, the graduation rate for white males is 54.5 percent. Asian/Pacific Islanders have the highest rate, 60.6 percent.
This education gap virtually ensures that men of color, particularly blacks, will continue to have less earning power than their white counterparts and be underrepresented across a broad spectrum of high-paying professions.
The good news is that the problem is being addressed. African-American educators who noticed the declines sounded warning bells several years ago and took the lead in trying to increase the rates of black men attending and completing college. State college systems became involved, too. The bad news is that the problem is persistent and complicated by factors that affect young black men long before they enter college.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)The school isn't segregating anything. They are merely setting aside a portion of living space designated for the use of students believed by the university to have special needs. These students will still go to class, and the library, and the Coop, and Gampell Pavilion, and Renschler Stadium, the Student Union, and (once they're 21, of course) fucking Ted's. Take it from a UConn alumnus: they will meet plenty of white people at these places.
Of course, the school also has special living accommodations for women, athletes, freshman, upperclassmen, and honors students. But give one to black folks and watch people freak the fuck out.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is not a phrase that anyone should be uttering in 2016. There are no "special needs" that racially segregated housing will help address.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)That's weird, because I've heard does wonders for imposter syndrome, and feeling like an outsider.
It's also a pretty good bet that your roommate won't like Nickleback.
branford
(4,462 posts)You should know that housing discrimination based upon national origin is prohibited in a like manner as race.
You better learn to like the diversity only Nickelback can offer, and hope your freshman Canadian roomate has the courtesy to bring some Tim Hortons.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Black men from poor environments are in a totally alien environment on a college campus. What can be addressed in this environment in a learning community like this is group support from people from similar backgrounds. Also, services directly targeting their needs, which will be similar to each other, and unlike the needs of whites from more middle-class backgrounds, who haven't experienced racism in their lives.
You keep trying to reduce this argument to a simple principle, and have no grasp of the specifics of the situation.
Dr. Strange
(25,917 posts)we weren't buying into the notion of self-identifying as African-American.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)Have no choice - we have dark faces and America is experienced differently as black people.
People ID me as such an treat me as such - its not like I could ever get away with self identifying as blonde light eyed Eastern European. I mean I could but I'd be crazy to try.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Forcing people of color to be separate to enforce white supremacy is bad. People of color building community and working together to overcome white supremacy is not bad.
Marr
(20,317 posts)familiar and comfortable with. You know-- being intellectually and socially challenged. It seems like people are more and more often walling themselves off into these little enclaves of 'everyone thinks just like me'.
Huh.
I wonder if this isn't an extension of the way the online world works. I mean, this very site is a good example. I enjoy it and I like having a place online that is not infested with right-wing trolls, but I wouldn't want my real life to work that way-- especially not in school.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Not about being bogged down by racism.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)by ensuring that they are not exposed to racism that might "bog them down"?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Come back to discuss this program.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)you can be sure that some would argue for resegregating public schools.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Big difference.
DC public schools has just set up a school for young black males, as an experiment, as a strategy.
And re-segregation has been occurring for 30 years. Read up on the information.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)but that too much segregation is bad? That students only living with other students of the same race is somehow helpful, but segregating the classes as well as the dorms would be going too far?
What about dining facilities? Should these be segregated or racially integrated?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)and it has to be limited and voluntary. In this example, the segregation ends every time they walk out the door.
Black residences are nothing new on many campuses.
JI7
(89,240 posts)but to give them their own dorm is suddenly an outrage.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)whether it's cops pulling people over, universities telling students where they are allowed to live, or anything else.
JI7
(89,240 posts)make their life experience different than some others.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)JI7
(89,240 posts)in this case at least it's a choice for them.
Iris
(15,648 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)While others recognize the relevant differences between safe spaces and segregation.
It's fun to extrapolate an idea outside of the observed or tabulated range, but lacking objective evidence, it's little more than informal guesswork collated together merely by assigning the label 'discrimination.'
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)Iris
(15,648 posts)Here's a link to the program: http://lc.uconn.edu
Many of these groups have designated housing.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Have you no respect for baseless speculation?
Iris
(15,648 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)Using facts!
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is very different from designating housing that students of certain races are excluded from.
Iris
(15,648 posts)RobinA
(9,886 posts)any interest based housing at college. Mixing people up is one of the advantages of college. If I wanted to be around people like me I would have stopped at high school.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is a strange one indeed, very reminiscent of the old pro-segregationist arguments in the South.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)There is a special dorm for women. There are special dorms for freshman. There are special dorms for upperclassmen. There are special dorms for honors students. There are special dorms for athletes. Now that they want to build a dorm for black people, everyone looses their fucking minds?
The University isn't segregating anything. It is setting aside a building to be used for the housing of students the university feels has special needs, just like the other groups that already have their own living arrangements. These students will still go to class, and still interact with white people.
Everyone can put away their smelling salts now.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)but racially segregated dorms are quite another. The principle that people benefit when you limit or reduce their contact with people of other races is a dangerous one.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Giving black students the option of living together in their own dorm might limit their contact with other races. An absolutely valid concern. Why, the last time I drove up 195 from Storrs to Willington and down 44 from Willington to Tolland up 31 from Tolland to Vernon, there wasn't a single white person to be found!
Oh, wait. They were all white.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)If black students choose to live with other black students, fine. If a white student wants to room with his black buddy, let him. That's how it works in most colleges. The difference in this case is that housing is being set aside that only students of certain races are allowed to live in.
branford
(4,462 posts)and interest groups like sports teams and honor students are not subject to equal protection and similar constitutional concerns. Your examples are simply not even remotely comparable to instances where the government limits housing choice based on race.
Moreover, you are quite wrong as a matter of law. People can choose to live wherever they choose and with whomever they want, and university can even assign housing based on non-discriminatory factors. However, the new residence option is only available to black men, i.e., not available to non-blacks, and thus is most certainly a form of enforced government segregation.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Which is exactly what I would have said if it was.
But it wasn't.
So I won't.
Here's some reading material: http://lc.uconn.edu/schola2rshouse/
Glance it over. If it turns out the evil Dr. Erik Hines (and his dastardly assistant David Ouimette) is hatching some nefarious plan to keep white people out of half of one floor of NextGen Hall (I assume they're going to install gates with biometric locks, and probably some lasers and shit to keep the melanin-challenged students from crossing over into their half of the bathroom) by establishing a learning community anyone -- regardless of race -- is allowed to join, feel free to wield the full force of your legal expertise against him in a court of law.
I'll be over here. Not giving a single fuck.
branford
(4,462 posts)the resumes of its proponents, or whether you "give a single fuck," is entirely irrelevant as a matter of law. These types of issues are some of actually dealt with in my legal practice here in NYC.
The real issue is how the university intends to implement the policy and who, if anyone, wants to challenge it. I would imagine that UConn, along with outside supporters of the housing option, will do everything possible to avoid court challenge, particularly given SCOTUS' ever increasing hostility to affirmative action programs. For instance, if a white, Asian or other non-black men who otherwise fit the housing criteria attempts to qualify, they will not be denied. Similarly, if a group of non-blacks with appropriate issues wants to live together, accommodations will also quietly be provided. UConn will face the greatest difficulty if a large enough group of activists with comparable needs but who aren't black challenge the program directly, UConn will likely be forced to revise the housing program and find ways of recruiting black students without actually using race, similar to how many state schools in California try to promote diversity without running afoul of their state constitutionally-mandated prohibition on racial considerations (and with mixed success).
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)It's meant to help black men - who are particularly disadvantaged - the way affirmative action is supposed to help minorities overcome injustices.
No, I don't think it should be very widespread, or we would end up with segregated campuses. However, if universities want to identify a group of potential black scholar/leaders and give them extra help, I think that's a good thing. Not everyone gets a monetary scholarship, and not everyone will get this particular type of help, either.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Or would you advocate having separate scholar/leader programs, one for each race, and the dorms segregated accordingly?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)I just think it is possible to justify it.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And having dorms so that students who share interests can live together is a good idea.
But segregating these programs by race, and ending up with racially segregated dorms as a result, is a horrible idea.
Would you like to be the one to tell a poor Native American student that he was not allowed into the program because of his or her race?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)that I believe separate dorm spaces would be wrong on a large scale. I don't want to go back to the days of segregation.
I would support this for promising students who have some level of disadvantage to overcome - not just your ordinary scholarship kids. Consider bright young men who grew up in the inner city, but have educational deficits. They come from very underprivileged background. They probably already feel like they don't fit in, but a supportive program like this could very well make the difference between success in college and failure.
Yes, it would be nice if we could do this for every student, but realistically we know that's not happening. Is it truly wrong to create a - let's call in affirmative action program for students, for lack of a better term?
I would not want to see the program race based only. It should be for disadvantaged students.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on the program.
JI7
(89,240 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)When the proximate cause of their disadvantage is racism itself, what is wrong with segregating a learning community by race? Riddle me that.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Being against this requires pretending there's no such thing as structural racism that severely damages the prospects of young black men. As long as this is an optional choice I am fully in favor of it being available.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Lancero
(3,002 posts)virgogal
(10,178 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)The black fraternities, anyway.
branford
(4,462 posts)must be open to non-blacks in order to officially exist on state university campuses due to the same constitutional provisions and jurisprudence that may ultimately doom the UConn racially-segregated housing option.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Just a thought.
romanic
(2,841 posts)I didn't expect so many replies to this subject. :O
I must say again I'm all for helping out black college students, especially black men who are at the bottom of the educational totem pole in regards to college and actually graduating college. But I still don't think separating them in their own little residential 'learning community" will actually help them academically or socially. I feel like it's the beginning of a slippery slope that may lead to a racial divide on college campuses that contradicts their quest for diversity.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)because it would lessen black students being "bogged down" by racism, is reminiscent of the arguments used by those who want to segregate public schools.
I would expect the courts to overturn this if the university does not back down.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I have never heard of anyone making the argument that segregating public schools would reduce racism.
Please provide a link if you have such evidence.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)If this were a requirement for admission I'd totally agree with you, but I am fine with providing extra support facilities for people with structural disadvantages.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)one building for blacks only, and one racially mixed building which any student could live in? Both the whites-only building and the blacks-only building would be "voluntary facilities", so you would be OK with this?
(Assume for this that although the buildings would be separate, they would also be equal).
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)there are significant benefits to being the majority. I am heartily in favor of affirmative action programs to help women, people of color, and other historically disadvantaged groups. I am about as white as someone can be genetically speaking, and I am FINE with giving up some of the privilege that goes with that to help others. If you are not that's your problem, I refuse to make it mine.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Are Asians disadvantaged enough to deserve their own segregated housing?
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)I could tell you a lot about this issue as my wife is Asian and I have become quite familiar with the complex historic, demographic and sociopolitical issues affecting the Asian and Asian-American communities, but I'm not going to. It's very obvious that you're looking for an argument instead of a constructive open-minded discussion and I am not going to expend my energy on that. Have a nice day.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Once you claim that some segregation of certain groups is a good thing, it leads to questions about which groups, specifically, deserve the privilege of being segregated? If some segregation is a good thing, how much segregation is too much? If segregating student housing is good because it prevents students from being "bogged down" by racism, why have racially integrated classes in which (presumably) incidents of racism might occur? Eventually it becomes so difficult to defend it's much easier to say "not playing this game, have a nice day".
My advantage is that my position is very simple: I am opposed to any and all racial segregation. You have a nice day too.
branford
(4,462 posts)and similar polices are worthwhile is not a reflection on their legality.
Over the last couple of decades the ability of state universities to use racial qualifications and restrictions, or consider race at all, has been substantially curtailed, including a current case before the Supreme Court this term which will likely impose further impediments.
If challenged, UConn's new racially-limited housing could face serious legal difficulties. However, I would imagine the university would make any accommodation possible in order to avoid ever seeing the inside of a courtroom, including admitting a few non-black students in the new housing option.