Very disturbed. A few months ago I had to take an ambulance ride to the ER

[peacebird]

Today the bill came. Mind you, my insurance covered 100% BUT good grief.
The bill was just under $800, how the hell can someone without insurance cover that? Ambulance rides can be the diff between life & death. But $800??

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. You got a good rate.

But I can't figure it out, either.

[peacebird]

4. It was higher, the insurance company has a discount. So uninsured would pay even more?

[dixiegrrrrl]

15. Uninsured pay more for everything..

ER use
ambulance
hospital
tests
even prescriptions.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

33. Got off cheap. The bill for four stitches in my hand at the ER came to $2400 or $600/stitch!

Why we need Bernie to bring common-sense health care for every American, like every other civilized country, and reign in the insurance companies and hospitals. He'll put an end to the gouging.

[grasswire]

2. sounds cheap, in my experience

but yes, it is horrifying

[Rex]

3. That is cheap!

They cannot, what happens is they go to the ER and then leave as soon as they are able.

[arcane1]

5. The difference between "coverage" and "care". Hell, I have coverage!

A couple of years ago I went to the ER because I needed 9 stitches in my knee. Insurance paid half.

The remaining half? $1,730 that had to come out of MY pocket.

But hey, as long as the precious insurance companies didn't get hit too hard, it's all good right?

[Glitterati]

6. Try a $7,000.00 ambulance

My husband had a heart attack - $500 for less than a mile to the local hospital, then a life flight in a helicopter.

They only reason they had to use the helicopter was because it was the middle of rush hour and the 4 lane divided highway was bumper to bumper. 23 miles from hospital to hospital on that highway, $7,000.00

[spanone]

53. my friends lifeflight was $14,000.00 from bon aqua, tn to nashville, tn - 47 miles

one-way doncha know

p.s. that 47 miles is on the highway, not as the crow/helicopter flies

[shanti]

61. apparently, there are different levels

for what you will pay. conscious/unconscious, bleeding/not bleeding, like that.

[lapfog_1]

7. people without insurance don't

because they can't afford the $10,000 ER visit much less the $800 ride.

And they simply don't pay... your insurance pays for you AND some portion of the uninsured (since the hospital and ambulance company don't want to go broke).

That's the reason for the flawed ACA... and an even better reason for single payer.

[benld74]

8. Mine was over $800 my insurance paid half

[Warpy]

9. I live equidistant from all the hospitals here

and very close to them so my bills haven't been too bad, even with things like on board EKGs and fluid/drug administration. What really drives up the cost of an ambulance ride is the mileage.

$800 isn't that bad, all things considered. I just hope you're OK now.

[malaise]

10. How does an ambulance ride cost more than

an airfare across the pond?

[Vincardog]

47. The bill is all they can get away with. It has nothing to do with cost or reality, much like the

Price of gas

[TheCowsCameHome]

72. Throw out a wild number,

hope for the best.

[1939]

92. Mathematics

Total cost for having the service divided by number of rides equals total cost per ride.

The meter is ticking for facilities, equipment, and personnel down at the rescue squad whether they are hauling someone or just drinking coffee. If they average two rides a day, the cost of the service will be daily cost/2.

If your government entity wants all of the property tax payers to pay for the service, the rides can be free. If the government entity wants the service to pay for itelf, then the rides will be expensive and Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, private insurance, whatever will pay for the rides.

[malokvale77]

11. I remember when our taxes paid for that service.

I miss the days when our taxes were used for the "public good".

[scscholar]

12. Still do around here

I didn't realize there were places where ambulances still charged you.

[Rex]

13. Me too.

[peacebird]

17. Ambulances here were covered by the county as a service until the last couple years. But when they

Talked about charging patients, the prices they gave were $100 a ride... This ride was $800 after the insurance company discount....

[procon]

14. You're paying for much more than just a ride.

Another reason why we need universal health insurance coverage.

[arcane1]

21. To Hell with "universal health insurance coverage". We need Universal Health CARE!!!

"Coverage" is just another giveaway to insurance companies, with absolutely no guarantee of receiving actual "care".

Fuck that.

[frazzled]

42. You're saying the government should run its own ambulance services

all over the country? That is not part of what is being talked about, and is not even feasible. They're talking about a single-payer insurance system. Medicare, for instance, would not pay for the entire cost of an ambulance ride. And they'll pay only if it's a true emergency (which they determine). If they deem it a true emergency (I don't think kidney stones would qualify--you could take a cab), they'll pay 80% of the Medicare rate to the private ambulance service, once you've met your annual Part B deductible. You'll then pay the rest.

I don't know what you mean by "absolutely no guarantee of receiving actual care." We just went through a year of hospitalizations, surgeries, chemo, advanced scans, and many specialist appointments for my husband, and our insurance paid for everything. For ACA plans (ours was employer insurance) there are strict rules about what insurers MUST cover.

[arcane1]

85. If I can't afford the copay, I can't afford the care. That's what I mean. n/t

[procon]

46. Why are you being so contentious over semantics?

If you want to complain about insurance companies, your argument is misdirected and they are your misperceptions, yeah?

As with any healthcare, someone is paying for the service coverage whether it's taxpayers via the government, or rate payers through the private sector, and this won't change. Universal coverage is a guarantee that everyone gets medical care, but there are still several different pay schemes available for that type of insurance as offered in other countries that offer workable solutions.

[arcane1]

86. It's two entirely different words.

Care means the care is paid for, as in a single-payer system.

Coverage means you have insurance, and you're subject to their rules regarding what care is paid for and what isn't.

[procon]

89. A single-payer system is still insurance coverage.

And like all the similar plans in place in other countries, there are still rules and restrictions on services. That's done, yeah?

[Sanity Claws]

16. That does not shock me

I'll bet an uninsured person was billed at a higher rate. You must have a great policy if there was no co-pay.

I got a referral to a specialist and had to pay $50 co pay because he was a specialist. A GP said I had to see a specialist but still had to pay that specialist copay. Same with physical therapy. I have to pay $30 for each PT session. All of this is in addition to the premium that my employer and I split.

I fucking hate our medical system.

[arcane1]

23. Worse, in my experience, is not knowing what the cost is until AFTER the visit to the specialist.

It's a gamble from beginning to end

[Doremus]

18. WTH do we pay taxes for?

When will we stop being such pushovers?

I really think the time is growing near.

[hfojvt]

19. $800 is not exactly a king's ransom

lots of people can cover that without too much trouble. People ought to have a couple thousand in savings.

Truthfully that is my question. How can they live without that? WHY do they?

[peacebird]

24. Many people work several min wage jobs while trying to support their families. That kind of money

is REAL money to them. Many live paycheck to paycheck as it is, having to decide between food & bills.

[hfojvt]

39. it is real money to me too

but I can still pay it.

In 2003 I made $13,891 in wages. Had no insurance. Went to the ER and the bill was $800. Futhermuckers charged me $500 for X-rays I didn't even need. So typical of them to include a walletectomy in their services.

I probably could have paid that out of savings, although I was putting most of my savings in my house at the time, but they set me up on a payment plan $50 a month and then let me put that on my credit card.

That is my question though. Why do people live paycheck to paycheck? I could NOT handle that, and in my life I never have even though I have had some very slim years. I concede that some people may HAVE to live that way, income too low, living expenses too high, but I still think for most people that is a choice.

[peacebird]

44. I lived paycheck to paycheck in my mid 20's as a single mom whose ex hubby didn't pay child support

Fortunately my parents helped out with baby food and diapers, and baby clothes when I went to visit them every other weekend!

I was not extravagent at all, but when I got out of college a GS5 position paid $10,500 a year.
Even in the early 80's it was hard to live on that and raise a child.

[hfojvt]

58. hmm I took a GS-5 position when I graduated college.

Except for some reason they paid me at GS-7. It was $8.57 an hour in November 1985, and I refused the health insurance because that would have cost $200 a year.

That was pretty darned good money back then, equivalent to $18.53 today. Back in those days I was saving about $800 a month. My rent was $205, utilities included in Clearfield, Utah. My paychecks were $522 every two weeks. I used the $22 as my grocery money and banked the rest.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. "People ought to have a couple thousand in savings."

series?

Approximately 62% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their savings accounts and 21% don’t even have a savings account, according to a new survey of more than 5,000 adults conducted this month by Google Consumer Survey for personal finance website GOBankingRates.com.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-have-less-than-1000-in-savings-2015-10-06

[Sanity Claws]

36. All of those old rules don't apply anymore

When I started to work in the 1980s, we were told that you should make sure that you have several months of living expenses ( like rent, student loans, car payments) saved up in case you get sick or get laid off. People are doing well these days if they 2 months saved up.

[hfojvt]

49. that is just mind boggling

Over 80% of households have more income than I do, and always have, for most of my life. So I would expect that at least 40 of that 62% make more money than I do. Some of them a lot more.

As such, it is still hard for me to believe that they CAN'T save.

[tazkcmo]

37. Really?

Why? Because we get paid shit, that's why. We all can't be degreed professionals. Someone needed to pick up the trash folks throw on the ground, mow the lawns, work the restaurants, sell crap at the retail outlets, etc. A couple thousand in savings is a pipe dream when you make 15k/year and your rent is 7k/year.

[hfojvt]

52. most people get paid more than me - even in Kansas

according to ITEP, 80% of Kansas households make more than $20,000 a year. I make about $17,000. I have spent 9 of the last 14 years as a part time janitor.

http://www.itep.org/whopays/states/kansas.php

To my surprise though, illinois is lower and California is NOT much higher. 80% make more than $23,000 in California, but $23,000 is probably not going to get you as far in California as $17,000 does in Kansas.

[tazkcmo]

59. And I make even less than that.

So you have a couple thousand saved? Congrats! I make less than you. Everybody I work with makes less than you. I'm lucky because it's just me, no family or bills. Then again, I ave no furniture besides the desk the computer is on and the chair I sit in. No vehicle, either so no expenses associated with that. Still, it would take a couple years to save up 2k IF nothing happens that requires me to spend more than my budget allows.

[hfojvt]

65. only 20% of Missouri households

make less than $18,000 a year.

If it was me, I probably would not have a computer or any internet until I had some money saved.

[xmas74]

73. Of course nowadays internet is needed for any number of things

including looking for a new job, paying many of your bills, even getting your pay stubs. And if you decide to go back to school to brush up on skills or even learn some new skills you'd better have it or you won't be able to even hand in your homework.

My child is in high school. She takes honors classes. Nearly half of her homework has to be emailed to her teachers. There is no time to complete it at school and the public library computers always have a waiting list. Thank goodness we have a computer and internet at home or else she'd flunk.

It's no longer a luxury. It's becoming more and more of a necessity every day, especially for school age children.

[liberalhistorian]

41. Because too many barely make enough

to cover living expenses. You know, little things like food, clothing, a roof over their family's head, gas, insurance and maintenance on the (probably old) car that gets them to the needed job and back, child care if they have children, etc., etc. And living paycheck to paycheck means that any little thing out of the ordinary that happens (car repair, illness, $800 ambulance ride) can set off a cascade of financial emergencies that will result in a hole that too many will find very difficult to dig out of. Unless you've been there, it's really hard to fully get it.

That's not to say that I don't absolutely agree with you about the importance of having some kind of savings. Even a small amount deposited weekly or even monthly will help and can add up. The problem is, it may not add up quickly enough and there may not be enough discretionary income left to be able to do even a small amount. That's why financial education classes are important.

[hfojvt]

91. there should be more who DO make enough

60% of households in Kansas make more than $38,000 a year. 40% of them make more than $59,000 a year. The first is almost twice what I make and the second is almost four times what I make. If I have savings, then I think many of them can too. They could, if they wanted to.

I have been a few places, especially low income http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002625762

Although the $5,900 I made in 1988-89 is about the same as $12,000 today, so not as low as it seemed, about $100 over the official poverty line. That was about as poor as I have been, wealth wise. I had perhaps $5,000 saved. Then after making $5,900 in my first year and $6,100 in my second year and then getting a teaching job that paid $8,100 for part time. At the end of those three years I had $12,000 saved and decided to start my own business. So on a yearly salary average of $6,700, I had saved an average of $2,300 a year. Probably a lot of that got saved the last year, when my rent was only $160, utilities included. It was just a room, sharing kitchen and bath with two others. Of course, back then the interest rates were good, so I was probably making $400 a year in interest too.

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. How? Aging out of being employable by the time you are 45 and your

children are only half grown. The shaky nature of the job market. Rents going up. Groceries going up. The cost of a breath of air basically going up. I do not know one single person in my immediate group of friends who would not be hit hard by an $800 ambulance bill. They are all employed and used to be "middle class." Of course they still identify as that, but they aren't.

[hfojvt]

70. groceries are actually going down

at least milk is, and some canned goods have been on sale lately. I just stocked up big time this last Saturday.

By the time a person is 45, they should own a house. Well, them and the bank.

Everybody I know is much richer than me, well except for one guy I work with at the homeless shelter - he is on disability.

I have kind of always been unemployable since I quit the airforce in 1986. I seem only able to get the jobs that nobody else wants - low paying factory, temp, part time janitor (although that last one is semi-decent, working for a city government, I only got it because the guy they hired ahead of me would not put up with my psycho boss).

[ScreamingMeemie]

88. Not in my neck of the woods.

(groceries that is) I'm glad $800 is not a hit for you, but it would destroy my carefully balanced world. And no, I don't buy on credit, buy new clothes, etc.

[malokvale77]

66. Not a king's ransom?

It's more than my monthly SS check.

Why do we live without savings? You act like we choose to.

[PoliticAverse]

20. $800 is around the usual amount charged.

Ambulance charges enable local governments to pass costs to other units of government (to the state
and federal government in the case of Medicaid patients, and the federal government in the case of
Medicare patients) or insurance companies. Additionally they discourage people from using ambulances
as taxis to hospitals.

If you have to go to the hospital by ambulance the ambulance fee will likely be dwarfed by the
hospital charges for your treatment and as you allude to uninsured people will likely be placed under
a severe financial burden.

[karadax]

22. Works out to about $65 a month on a 12 month payment plan.

Most people pay that amount for their internet / cable tv bill.

[peacebird]

27. Many people are living paycheck to paycheck and barely getting by. What you consider an easy amount

is not an easy amount for everyone. One coworker I had was working fulltime with me, and then went to a TJMaxx to work part time in order to support the grandkids that were living with her because their parents were gone. Very nice lady, but working her fanny off to try to support the grandkids through no fault of her own.

[tazkcmo]

40. I pay 45

And that's the only bill I have outside Rent and electric. I make 300/week on 40 hours, if I get it. Usually I don't.

[liberalhistorian]

45. That is, if they even accept a payment plan.

It depends on the particular entity. Some will accept payment plans, others will not, they want it all and they want it all now. They don't care if it's the amount of an entire paycheck that you're relying on.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

57. Tone deaf.

...

[angstlessk]

25. The worse ride one can take is in an ambulance

I had some sort of a stoke when I took a bunch of different drugs for pain from gall bladder ROCKS.

When I wanted to raise my arms...they went down, when I tried to walk down my stairs my legs went up

The ride in the ambulance was rough to say the least...why don't ambulances have better shocks?

[peacebird]

31. ouch! I totally feel your pain. Had kidney stone once... OMG was that pain.

[angstlessk]

35. I had gall bladder stones since I was 17 years old

by the time it was removed it was the size of a ping pong ball...and my Dr used the size of my gall bladder to post to some medical forum??? He gave me the stone.

It was removed via lazer, but the doc wanted to cut me open since it was so large, but the attendants persuaded him to remove it via the belly button..and it worked!

[peacebird]

38. I am curled up in fetal position cringing at the thought........

[angstlessk]

50. It seems a simple ultrasound would have solved the problem

In the mean time I had upper gi's and lower gi's and even had a scope down my throat into my stomach...none of which discovered gall bladder problem.

I was flabbergasted to find the simple test..ultrasound could have found the problem...and was a little pissed.

[shanti]

62. and then

if the EMTs say you need an IV....ever had an iv started in a jiggling ambulance? not fun!

[democrank]

26. My beloved Vietnam Veteran

had two ambulance rides, two days apart. They were $1,500.00 each. All the others were around $700.00 to $900.00.

[onecaliberal]

28. Most people without insurance, don't call the ambulance, they just die.

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. Mine was $1400... 7 1/2 years ago.

Dehydration, apparently.

[Warren Stupidity]

32. What's great about this thread is the Clinton campaign's salvos against

universal healthcare have convinced people here that it is now safe to just wear their republican sentiments on this issue out in public.

[peacebird]

34. I have been dismayed by some of the responses... I thought Dems were the compassionate party

[tazkcmo]

43. That's the OLD Dem party.

The NEW Dem party hates the takers just like the GOP. We just want free stuff after all.

[Doctor_J]

56. I noticed that too

You really can't tell them apart from Fox viewers.

[LibDemAlways]

51. A relative of mine was transferred from one

hospital to another facility a half hour away. This was two years ago. He had insurance and still had to pay $1200 of the $2800 tab. It's outrageous!

[shanti]

63. another thing...

if they ask you which hospital you want to go to and it's not the one they usually would take you to, you will be charged extra.

[madaboutharry]

54. My son had a bike accident

at college. (Broken jaw). Two blocks to the University Medical Center: $450.

[jeff47]

55. My daughter cost $5,000 a pound when she was born.

(Insurance, so I didn't have to pay more than the high deductible)

[shanti]

60. your post is timely

because i was going to post about my own ambulance ride fee. i had to take a trip to the hospital (kaiser) ON thanksgiving. i was having arrhythmia that wouldn't stop while i was on the phone to my mother. it lasted for at least 10 minutes before i called 911. when they arrived (a fire truck arrived first), then the EMTs. they were with me for another 10 minutes and i asked if i really had to go to the hospital.

they said yes, because your "condition" is "incompatible with life", so off i went, hooked up to a heart monitor.

i figured that my kaiser ins. would pay the bill, but i got one from the fire dept. about 3 weeks later - $2500!!!!!!! i was totally shocked, so immediately got on the phone to kaiser and was reassured that i did NOT have to pay it, so i calmed down. the bill had a "first responder fee" that was $250, something that was just recently approved due to the real estate market. also had a fee for the heart monitor, mileage, and the main fee just for the call.

THEN last saturday, i got something from kaiser saying that they couldn't process it because the bill from the fire dept. was "illegible". i'm hoping they figure it out!!

i found something on the internet about when a person calls 911 and isn't insured, but it's not pretty. scary to think about that!

glad that you were covered!

[peacebird]

64. I know. i called because I was on the way to see my doc but my heart rate was spiking at 150 bpm

Ambulance had my BP at 198/169

My eyes were completely bloodshot because of the high blood pressure.

No one has been able to explain why a thin white woman with poster child good BP of 120/65
5'4" and 115 pounds
Perfect cholesteral levels
Physically fit enough to bicycle halfway across the country in 2013

Why would I suddenly have my BP and Heart rate go ballistic?

[shanti]

68. wow, that is an extremely high bp!

mine was 165, but is usually about 120/85, often lower. i've had palpitations before, but never sustained, so it was a first, and quite scary. didn't get the bloodshot eyes, but felt like i might faint.

i also want to know why it happened, but they couldn't give me an answer!

did your bp go down quickly and did they give you beta blockers at the hospital? the rn at the hospital said that when you get palpitations, you should blow on your thumb, i.e., bear down. has something to do with nerves in the diaphragm.

[peacebird]

74. My palpitations ended after a course of doxy for lymes, returning a week after the drug course ended

Pain in my rib, "arthritis" in my elbows and fingers, extreme exhaution, headaches. Visual distubances. Heart arrythmia, all ended while on doxy for lymes. All returned a week off doxy.

I am now on third month of doxy. Seems I missed a lymes episode with a tick bite and the little sucker got deep in different parts of my body. We are hoping an extended doxy can kill it.

[MineralMan]

67. People often go in their own car instead.

That's how i got to the hospital after I broke my leg when I was 10. Dad picked
Me up, put me in the back seat and drove me there. He drove up to the ambulance entrance and honked the horn. A couple of hours later he put me back in the car and drove me home.

For heart attacks and strokes, you need an ambulance. Most other ER trips don't.

[shanti]

69. next time

i'll just call a cab.

[MineralMan]

71. People do that a lot, too. If it's not life or death, an ambulance

Isn't really necessary. Common sense is a good thing.

[peacebird]

76. I am disappointed in you for this. It feels very judgemental of you

In my case I was afraid if I kept driving that I would be at risk of hurting someone else. But really, if you think you are having a heart attack should you be afraid to call an ambulance?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

93. It sounds like you handled it right.

Don't drive if you think you're having a heart attack.

Mineral Man seemed to be talking about some other situation, like if you have a simple bone fracture and you have someone else to drive the car. Then it makes sense to not bother with an ambulance.

[shanti]

82. yes it is

except when they TELL you that you must get in the ambulance. i was by myself, never called 911 before, feeling faint, you do the math.

[peacebird]

75. I was in my car, but began to feel so unstable that I was afraid I would lose it and hurt someone

So I pulled over and called 911

[bettyellen]

81. Wow, scary!! how are you doing now? Hope you are well, my friend!

[shanti]

83. exactly

the emt's said i made the right decision. nobody wants anyone else hurt.

[LeftyMom]

97. AND you had to wait while he turned the crank to start it.

[xloadiex]

77. Only 800?

I had to go by ambulance last year. The fire department is across the street. The hospital is less than 2 miles away. My bill was 1600.00

[redstatebluegirl]

78. Be glad it wasn't a helicopter!

$30000 is what a friend was billed.

[bhikkhu]

79. Sounds about right

a few years back we had a housefire and I inhaled some smoke and scorched my eyebrows...no real harm done and everyone else was fine. The fire department had an ambulance there just in case and asked if I wanted a lift to the hospital (just down the street) to get checked out; I thought about driving but I was pretty tired, said fine. The $600 bill came in the mail a month later, which my insurance never did cover.

[ileus]

80. I paid 600 in 2002 for a 5 mile trip.

I received a flyer in the mail for air ambulance "insurance" last week.

[postulater]

84. A woman told me today about the hyperbaric

oxygen treatments she had for an infected foot.

A series of thirty daily treatments at $2700 per treatment.

Insurance paid it all, she didn't pay a penny.

[Laffy Kat]

87. I hear ya. My ride was $1,000.

Almost two years ago following a car accident. I never had to pay a dime, but geesh.
K

[Liberal_in_LA]

90. That bill was low

[B Calm]

94. My annual blood test cost over $800. .

[titaniumsalute]

95. If I am having a stroke or dying of a heart attack...

$800 doesn't sound so bad.

[nilesobek]

96. My youngest son is an epileptic.

He's had a couple hundred grand mal seizures in the last 7 years.

I used to never call the ambulance because my son is an adult and didn't want me to. But a police officer informed me that if my son died, and I didn't call the ambulance, I could be charged with manslaughter.

That was over a hundred ambulance calls ago. We have racked up an impressive six figure ambulance bill with zero chance to pay.