General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy after 200+ years....
44 presidents and have we not had a woman president.
Please do not refer to Hillary, this is not about her.
My 8 year old granddaughter has asked me...and I don't know.
Also...no need to bring up Elizabeth Warren. She has no interest or experience in foreign policy. Considering the state of our economy, she is exactly where she is needed the most.
Response to RichGirl (Original post)
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Maeve
(42,271 posts)Because the attitudes toward women were (and in many cases still are) backward and patriarchal, assuming women were so limited by biology that our brains couldn't handle big ideas, that we were so busy with children that we had no time for politics and we weren't strong enough. When you realize women died younger than men until the 20th century, you can begin to see where it came from.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)...that was almost 100 years ago. Other countries have women leaders.
It's the whole picture really...even in Hollywood women are paid less then men.
Considering how many people vote for Trump...a lot of non-thinkers...to be kind. Maybe it's the Christian thing.
Maybe we are a backward country!
Maeve
(42,271 posts)In part because the World Wars killed off a higher percentage of their men, women were pushed into the workplace more than here. Also, there was a wider acceptance of socialism and concurrent concept of gender equality; Cold War America fought hard for the mom-at-home model. Watch the movie "Silk Stockings" to see how that was supposed to work!
As for a "Christian thing"--in the post WWII era, the Protestant churches got behind the "God loves Capitalism" vs "Godless Communism" idea (never mind it was a false dicotomy, it worked and still does for Drumpf followers) and preached the American way as much as they preached Christianity, often conflating them. (Again, still do)
djean111
(14,255 posts)You were given many "thoughts" on the subject.
I would be happy to vote for a woman for President - but it is the issues that count for me, not gender. Hopefully you will tell your granddaughter that just being a woman who wants to be president is not all that is required. That woman's policies, deeds, and record will be scrutinized just like any man's. To tell her anything else would be fostering the idea that being a woman is more important than the issues. It is most certainly not. Tell her that for many, the right woman has not applied for the job as yet. And point out that it is usually the Party and the Big Money that chooses the candidates, the rest of us do not have to go along with that.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)I used her as illustration. I voted Bernie in primaries. The fact that I don't agree with her on many things doesn't make me blind to the fact that she is under much more scrutiny than men.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Hillary put herself out there. The scrutiny comes with the job application.
It has been obvious from the start of her campaign that she expected to just own the women's vote, which was, to me, insulting and condescending. I did support her in 2008, voted for her in that pointless Florida primary.
What happened in the interim? I learned to do my due diligence using the internet. I can see what any candidate has done and said over the years. Maybe Hillary would have had a better shot if there was no internet, if we all just got our information spoon fed, and curated, from TV and newspapers and glossy mailers. Those days are gone. For EVERYONE.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)Simply want to answer my granddaughters question!
djean111
(14,255 posts)Unless your question is merely rhetorical, you have your answer.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)RichGirl
(4,119 posts)....were our religion instead of Christianity...I bet we'd have had a few women as pres by now.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)JFKDem62
(383 posts)They had no rights whatsoever.
American women have made a lot of progress, but in many parts of the world, women are still seen as property or second class citizens.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)...England, Germany, etc...women are leaders. And, according Michael Moore's new movie...the people there are doing a lot better than we are
JFKDem62
(383 posts)tkmorris
(11,138 posts)In fact the only one they ever had was Margaret Thatcher. If Maggie Thatcher is your idea of what we want in a President then I have to wonder what you are doing on a Democratic forum. FWIW Angela Merkel is not exactly my idea of Progressive leadership either.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)I know nothing...about Thatcher or Merkel...that is not the point!
But I can include them in my question. They don't have the "Christian nation" excuse for having so few women.
SO...question is...why aren't there more women leaders in the world???
Or l could ask...why is the world so fucked up??? Maybe the first question answers the second! I don't know...that's why I'm asking.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)So it seems odd to complain that I diverted anyone's attention by responding directly to what you posted.
On the topic of women leaders in the world at large, I think we would do well to have many more. However I think the most important thing to do is to change attitudes overall, so that we reach a time when a woman runs for elected high office and no one raises or considers privately the issue of her gender at all. I think we are getting there, though we obviously have some ways to go.
HOWEVER. It is important to differentiate between how we treat women candidates in general, and how we treat individual candidates. For example I believe that a woman could make as fine a president as a man in a general sense, but Carly Fiorina the individual would be a disastrous president. I happen to believe that Hillary Clinton would be better than Carly, but again I do not think she is the best, or even a good, choice. I would like to see another black president, but Ben Carson would easily be the worst president in history.
My misgivings about these people have nothing to do with their gender or race. That, in a nutshell, is the attitude we need to achieve in a general sense, across the voting population. To evaluate the candidates on their merits, without consideration for gender, race, sexual orientation, or religious preferences.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)....that he has so many supporters...has made me question a lot of things. It has made me take a better look at this country and the people who are voting in it.
Wounded Bear
(58,605 posts)and I'm 63. I'm just not sure the Hillary is the right woman.
If you're still reading, I will vote for her over any Repub on the ticket this year, or most any year for that matter. But given the choice between her and Bernie, I will support Bernie in the primaries.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)I just don't understand the extreme hatred people have for Hillary. I think Democrats were kinder to George Bush.
For my granddaughter and every little girl out there...if you have criticism, disagree with her, fine, I do too. But why demonize her.
Michael Moore who is big Bernie supporters has said very nice things about her.
Wounded Bear
(58,605 posts)I don't understand it either. Our party has seen far too many people acting like Republicans towards our candidates.
I suspect a lot of sock puppets have been recruited this year. There's been a ton of pot stirring this cycle. I don't like it.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Indeed, the same people who dislike or even despise Hillary feel the same towards her husband as well.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)When this happens in the US, let me know....
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)Sadly to the point where even some women buy into the misogynistic lies.
My late grandmother on my mother's side became upset when my mother contemplated ideas to start her own business 25 years ago. Why? 'Because the proper place for a woman is to be a homemaker and not a businessman.' She also got angry because a female cousin of mine became a lawyer. Again, it was 'women belong in the kitchen, not in a law firm.'
FSogol
(45,456 posts)If you granddaughter is asking, that's a good chance to talk about:
Victoria Woodhull (1872) the 1st to run
Shirley Chisholm
Patricia Schroeder
and
Geraldine Ferraro
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)even her opponents surely have to be at least a little impressed at how a woman, in 1979, rose to the top of UK politics without being married to, or being the daughter of, any prominent male.
haele
(12,640 posts)The American Tradition through to the 1960's was always similar to the 17th century European view of women as an extension of their fathers, brothers, or husbands. While in the Americas, women had a bit more control over their own money if they made or inherited it than their European sisters, they were still considered the lesser, that their reproductive organs and menstrual cycle would naturally affect their emotions to such a degree that they were unable to consistently make the "hard decisions" required to succeed, or that they would be more nurturing - thus weaker - than men would be in a life or death situation.
So basically, until the 1990's, there were very few women in the US that were viewed to have an overall "leadership potential". While there were women in leadership roles, those were typically relegated to woman's issues, and would only be trotted out when politics wanted to show how far women have come. But women in the US were still linked to their husbands, family name, or male mentors in both business and politics. From the 1960's through the 1990's, women politicians, with very few exceptions, still required a strong approving male mentor to justify the parties punching their tickets. I remember growing up hearing interviews of women leaders - and inevitably, one of the first questions would be "How does your husband feel about what you are doing?", "What does your family think about your work?", or "Doesn't this job/role/work affect your ability to have a family of your own?" and the worst "Did you really expect to make as much of a sacrifice as you did to get to where you are now?" - suggesting that it is somehow unusually unnatural for a women to take charge in "A Man's World" - that she's sacrificing her ability to fulfill her responsibility to be a wife and mother to take on this role.
Honestly, war and the significant loss of "able bodied men" had a lot to do with women breaking through traditional gender roles. It was different in other countries, where women had to take over traditionally male roles during war and were able to keep them because there were very few returning. However, when WWII was over in our country, women who had made significant strides in business and politics were "encouraged" to stand aside and let the men who went off to war to take back their old jobs - and as the war machine production cycled down, the existing factory jobs in support of the war effort were starting to disappear. Women returned to the home, to support jobs, to second class status.
In the 1990's, internet technology started becoming the great equalizer in the US. Women were able to access the business world on their own merits, get their ideas out in public and more importantly, publish, create and widely disseminate their own products without having to go through the American Establishment acceptance process in their respective fields that had previously kept them out. This has allowed the efforts of women to be highlighted and considered being leaders and experts in their own right in the 2000's.
As to the women who have used family and mentors to gain power, unlike in business or other political office (especially representative offices), the office of the U.S. President has never really been a position that could be "back door'd" into - that one couldn't be sponsored into that position because of the legacy of spouse or supposedly family, even though there have been at least two presidents (Bush 43 and Harrison) that have used family connections to augment their potential competency to be President. That hasn't (yet) occurred for the Presidency when gender is also involved.
So as to why there have been no women presidents or vice presidents in the U.S., it's because traditionally, being president has been a man's job for no real reason other than the group of men who have been in charge for the past 240 years have wanted to keep it a boys club, because of Wars and cut-throat business practices, and all that Manly-Man sort of thinking and have used being a man as part of the major criteria required to be considered President by the various parties.
While gender is no longer a major criteria for the viable party machines, it may still be a major consideration for older voters, who still have problems considering women equal to men when it comes to leadership qualities. And that's the real answer as to why no woman has become president - yet.
May be next year, may be in 12 or 16 years, but there should be viable woman candidate winning the presidency of the United States within your daughter's lifetime. And the most critical reason for her to win should be her personal qualifications, record and talents, not because she's hooked herself up to a powerful political machine in her immediate circle. There's been enough man candidates (Bush) who have used a familial political machine to propel them to power and look how they've screwed things up...
Haele
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Voters defer to men when it comes to decision making, etc. We are finally getting past that, but it's still with us. I worked in an office where we answered questions from the public. Any time elderly women came in, I knew I would be called upon to talk to them because they were never satisfied with the answer they got from my boss, who was a woman. She would tell them the correct answer, and they would get skeptical expressions and glance over at me. I would have to tell them what my boss told them, and then it was OK. If they heard i from me first, it was also OK. As long as it came from a man they considered it authoritative. Younger women didn't exhibit this rather interesting bias, so it's somewhat generational, or cultural.