Someone dropped this off at Freedom Plaza last night (Occupy Nashville)

[kpete]

and this

[BeHereNow]

1. GREAT stuff! Thanks for posting the images-

Very strong indeed.
BHN

[Fantastic Anarchist]

2. Thomas Jefferson doesn't exist according to the reactionary right-wing ...

... so, they wouldn't even care what he had to say.

Hell, they try to write him out of textbooks for fuck's sake.

[Lefta Dissenter]

3. WWPSS?*

* what would Phyllis Schlafly say?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

4. Something hypocritical ... nt

[eridani]

5. Seriously? That's a new one on me n/t

[Luminous Animal]

7. Here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html
Texas Conservatives Win Curriculum Change

"Cynthia Dunbar, a lawyer from Richmond who is a strict constitutionalist and thinks the nation was founded on Christian beliefs, managed to cut Thomas Jefferson from a list of figures whose writings inspired revolutions in the late 18th century and 19th century, replacing him with St. Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and William Blackstone. (Jefferson is not well liked among conservatives on the board because he coined the term “separation between church and state.”)"

[eridani]

8. Oh, OK. I thought that the prior post meant that they thought

--Jefferson did not actually exist as a historical person. I get it if they meant that they do their level best not to quote him on anything.

[xxqqqzme]

20. They go beyond not quoting him.

They would deny his influence and contribution to the founding of the country. The only thing stopping them now is his image on money and that memorial thing in DC.

[Fire Walk With Me]

6. Superb, thanks for posting!

[secondwind]

9. WOW! that is awesome. Love, love this! :-D

[a la izquierda]

10. Parts of/all of that quote are misleading, inaccurate,

or downright false, I'm sorry to say. It was going around facebook for awhile.
We do a great disservice by disseminating false quotes like this.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp

[MADem]

11. They worked very hard to construct an artsy representation of a complete FAKE, it looks like....

From your link:

According to the Jefferson Encyclopedia, the earliest printed reference to this quotation found so far appeared in a 1937 Congressional subcommittee report, which means there is no known record of these words having been attached to Jefferson's name until well more than a century after his death (1826). And even though this quotation has bedeviled historians for several decades now, no one has yet turned up any Jeffersonian speeches or writings or other documentation demonstrating that Thomas Jefferson ever uttered or wrote these words.

[a la izquierda]

15. Wow.

Just, wow. No, the intent itself might very well be true, but the right's job is to spread misinformation and untruths. That is not the job of the left, thanks very much. Intellectual integrity is important.
You'd fail my class if that was your justification.

[Occulus]

13. Anything AT ALL to shit down their necks, right MADem?

[a la izquierda]

14. Excuse me, but I'm a historian, and I think your comment is utter bullshit.

We slam the right all the time for altering history. Why the hell should anyone in Occupy get a pass?
Oh right, no one should get a pass. I would tell you what kind of screwed up history I deal with on a daily basis, but I suppose you wouldn't care.

[MADem]

19. Thank you.

I do not object to the essential sentiments, I object to the flowery, faked language and the attribution.

History matters. Truth matters. And no one should get a pass when they try to twist, spin or change it.

[a la izquierda]

27. Well, last week it was the "Mayan" city found in Georgia.

The BS and intellectual dishonesty was flying all over that thread.

[MADem]

28. I saw that thread.

It smelled very funny to me, as well. I'm no expert, but I thought the Mississippi counter-argument made much more sense. And didn't the guy that "article" cited as the authority in support of the thesis write in and say that he was misquoted? And wasn't the author of the Examiner item revealed to be a bit obsessive regarding the topic?

I don't buy anything I read in that Examiner. Anyone can write anything and get away with it, so long as it's fairly well written. It doesn't have to be true, though! It's just nonsense.

[MADem]

18. I beg your rude pardon? You think putting up bullshit propaganda--total lies--is HELPFUL?

You think it advances any "cause?" Save the accusatory "those people make shit up" cause?

I'd not be surprised if the "helpful" person who slapped up that artsy-fartsy bit of nonsense came from a diametrically opposed view from the people who are innocently and naively cheerleading it. Great way to paint with a broad brush, to throw up crap and then blame the masses around it for endorsing it (which I was careful not to do--I put the blame on the idiot who went to all the trouble to create that bit of bullshit without first doing his or her homework).

Your comment says an awful lot about you--none of it good.

Win at any cost, endorse lies and falsehoods, and fuck anyone--even truth tellers--who get in your way, is that it?

If anyone's doing any "neck shitting" it's you.

Tsk, tsk. You should be ashamed to endorse willful perpetuation of a falsehood, but that takes an ethical foundation.

[a la izquierda]

16. Yep

I think the quote in and of itself is fine. However, attributing it to Jefferson to further a cause is just wrong. Find someone who actually did say something along those lines.

There's a long debate about when capitalism actually began in this country- history PhDs in American history have to learn this. The first time I saw that quote it made me immediately think of those debates, and I immediately checked snopes (this was back when OWS first started). I knew the quote didn't sound exactly right.

[Land Shark]

17. It's not inconsistent with Jefferson's known thoughts/writings, however

Please see Jefferson's writing on establishing a national bank, prepared during Washington's presidency, for one example (though not necessary the best example).

[a la izquierda]

25. Doesn't matter.

There is zero evidence that he said it. Historians work on facts. That quote is not a fact, it cannot be attributed to him and therefore should not be. Period. End of story.

His sentiment may very well be reflected. But the fact of the matter is there's no evidence he ever made that claim.

[eridani]

24. It does seem anachronistic, since corporate charters weren't at all common

--at that time. The bank quote seems to be fairly close to Jefferson's actual opinion, though.

[Zorra]

22. Here is a Jefferson quote concerning aristocracy, taken from one of his letters to John Adams:

For I agree with you that there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents. Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi. But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missile death, bodily strength, like beauty, good humor, politeness and other accomplishments, has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction. There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class. The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say that that form of government is the best which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government? The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent it's ascendancy.
- Thomas Jefferson, Oct. 28, 1813

[a la izquierda]

26. Fine. But corporations and the aristocracy are very different animals.

Jefferson feared the aristocracy, and rightly so. Corporations-in the sense that we understand them today- were only in their infancy at the beginning of the 19th century, hence my comment upthread about academic debates on the ascendancy of capitalism in America.

[jwirr]

21. Wish we had some billboards all over the nation for that kind of things. We could replace all those

prolife pretenders with a real life saving message.

[T S Justly]

23. K&R (nt)