ALABAMA: Senate Votes To Eliminate Marriage Licenses

[KamaAina]

Not The Onion!

http://www.joemygod.com/2016/03/15/alabama-senate-votes-to-eliminate-marriage-licenses/

Two weeks ago the Alabama Supreme Court dismissed a challenge to Obergefell with a ruling that Chief Justice Roy Moore bizarrely contends actually upholds his state’s ban on same-sex marriage. Today the state Senate continued to ride the crazy train. The Associated Press reports:

The Alabama Senate has voted to do away with state-issued marriage licenses following the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that effectively legalized same-sex marriage. Senators approved the bill 23-3 today. It would require couples to file a form recording their marriage rather than have county probate offices issue licenses.

Republican Sen. Greg Albritton of Range says the change would end controversy over marriage licenses while ensuring that people can marry whomever they choose. A few Alabama probate judges have stopped issuing marriage licenses altogether to avoid giving them to same-sex couples.

Rep. Patricia Todd is the only openly gay legislator in the state, and she calls the bill unnecessary. Todd says probate judges should do their job and issue licenses.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

1. I see nothing wrong with this

Couples can marry whenever they choose and whomever they choose, and just tell the state later.

That removes state sanctioning, just like with any other contract.

[Basic LA]

6. I agree.

Why does anyone need the state's permission?

[atreides1]

32. Well

Currently state issued marriage licenses are required by the IRS, the Social Security Administration, the US military, and I'm sure there are other government agencies both local and federal that have the same requirement!

And as long as the state collects a fee to file the forms, it is theoretically still state sanctioned!


One last thing, what if some clerk who has a "sincere" religious belief when it comes to marriage, decides to "lose" this contract?

This doesn't do anything except makes it more difficult for same-sex couples, and it makes them scapegoats for those who will feel that their religious belief is under attack!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

33. Your first line is simply not true

The IRS, the Social Security Administration and the U.S. military most certainly do NOT require marriage licenses, they require proof of marriage, which is a marriage certificate.

I've never had to show my marriage license to anyone, except for the priest who married us.

It doesn't make it more difficult for same-sex couples, it makes it easier for all couples. No need to get a license beforehand - just go get married, have a form signed by witnesses, and go file it.

Much handwringing about nothing, IMO.

[gratuitous]

2. Who's destroying the institution of marriage now?

I've seen spoiled four-year-olds less childish than this.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

17. How is it destroying marriages

to say "Marry whomever you please, and tell us about it afterwards"?

Why should anyone have to have a license from the state to get married?

[gratuitous]

24. Because . . .

The state grants any number of rights and privileges to married persons, as does the federal government. From little things like tax breaks to larger things like your right to visit your critically-injured spouse in the hospital. There are all kinds of legal structures set up to automatically accommodate a married couple at little or no cost, that aren't available to unmarried couples without laborious (and expensive) contract writing that may or may not be honored by an over-officious government official or a blue-nosed business owner without recourse.

The system is geared in ways large and small to deal with married couples. By taking their ball and going home, the Alabama legislature is looking to dismantle this structure out of pique because couples they don't like will get the same benefits. Oddly enough, during the time leading up to the Obergefell decision, opponents of same sex marriage claimed that treating all couples equally under the law would "destroy marriage." Now that marriage equality is the law of the land, those same opponents are trying to fulfill their own prophecy by destroying a legal vehicle that has served human society for milennia.

[merrily]

28. The state can still grant rights and privileges to married persons, even if it does not

interfere in who gets married and who doesn't.

The state gives rights to people born alive, but it does not give out licenses to get pregnant.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

29. Exactly

I see nothing at all wrong with this, so long as, upon request, the state will produce a certificate showing that a marriage took place.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

34. This doesn't end legal marriage in Alabama

it makes it easier.

[Omaha Steve]

3. No more shotgun weddings?

[HubertHeaver]

5. No, just

"jump over a broomstick".

[Omaha Steve]

9. To get Social Security, pension, health ins, etc a license is required

OOPS!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

10. Where?

I've never had to show my marriage license, except to the priest who married us. For health insurance, etc., I've had to show the marriage certificate.

[Omaha Steve]

13. But they aren't going to issue them IF this passes

[SickOfTheOnePct]

15. Where

does it say that they aren't going to issue marriage certificates?

[Omaha Steve]

23. You have to file an executed license to get a certificate

For my pension benefit for Marta, I was told a certificate would not be accepted. We drove up to the county we got the license at to get a certified copy. It is not filed in the county of the marriage by NE law. No idea why.

OS

[SickOfTheOnePct]

26. If there is no license issued

then one can't be required to get a certificate.

[Omaha Steve]

30. How are you going to get legally married to get a certificate?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

31. If you read the article

it explains it. It's really not that difficult to understand.

[Omaha Steve]

35. I did

"The Alabama Senate has voted to do away with state-issued marriage licenses"

See my reply 23. Doing away with this doesn't meet legal requirements for many legal reasons!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

36. Try reading the entire article

Marriages will take place without the license, and be registered afterwards.

Unless a state says there is a requirement for a marriage license prior to the marriage, then there is no requirement. Right now, all 50 states require a license prior to marriage, but there is nothing that requires them to do so, except for their own laws. If they choose to change those laws, that's their call within their own states.

What Nebraska requires in order to constitute a legal marriage in Nebraska is completely irrelevant to what Alabama or any other state requires in order to constitute a legal marriage in those states.

[Omaha Steve]

37. It isn't Nebraska

It is Social Security, employers, other government benefits, etc.

Social Security requires a certified marriage license. Just like I had to go through to get Marta her part of my pension with City of Omaha law. Without it she would only get to look at this below instead of getting a monthly check.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

38. No, Social Security does not require a certified marriage license

They require a marriage certificate, which is not the same thing at all. And if you're from a state that recognizes common-law marriage, they don't even require that.

https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-2.html

Documents you may need to provide

We may ask you to provide documents to show that you are eligible, such as:
•Birth certificate or other proof of birth;
•Proof of U.S. citizenship or lawful alien status if you were not born in the United States [More Info];
•U.S. military discharge paper(s) if you had military service before 1968;
•W-2 forms(s) and/or self-employment tax returns for last year.
•Final divorce decree, if applying as a divorced spouse; and
•Marriage certificate.

Nor does the federal government in general require a marriage license, they require a marriage certificate, which is not the same thing at all. I did 20 years in the military and never had to produce a marriage license to prove I had married - they wanted the certificate.

[HubertHeaver]

11. Correct.

They have opened a can of worms.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

12. I think you're confusing

marriage licenses with marriage certificates. Two completely different things.

[NutmegYankee]

4. Would this form be valid in other states?

[geek tragedy]

7. as long as it's valid in Alabama, why not?

They may run into issues with illegal marriages (bigamy, underage, etc) so not sure how that would work.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

8. Why wouldn't it be?

The only time I've ever been asked to show my marriage license was by the priest who performed the marriage. After that, our marriage certificate was proof of the marriage.

[hobbit709]

14. so how did you get the certificate?

In TX you file the signed and filled in license with the county clerk and get issued a certificate.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

16. You would get it when you register the marriage n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. No, when you register the marriage, you don't get anything

Here's the bill; the judge of probate does not issue a certificate

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/ALISON/SearchableInstruments/2016RS/PrintFiles/SB143-int.pdf

You hand over the witnessed forms to the judge of probate, who sends copies each month to the Office of Vital Statistics. You don't get anything back. So presumably you have to wait until they've received that, and then ask them to give you a copy of the marriage certificate if you need it for anything.

[NutmegYankee]

20. Depending on how this was implemented, another state could argue it isn't a valid license.

Sure, it would be fought in court under "full faith and credit", but I can see a state taking such an act.

[NightWatcher]

18. Marriages are contracts that often end up in court

They need to be legally sanctioned in that state.

There's a potential for a lot of problems if people claim they were married there but no record of a license could be found.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

19. The registration would be the legal record n/t

[jwirr]

21. While this may solve some problems I suspect there might

be some questions that come up and there will now be no ID to prove some issues. I have needed to prove that I was married to my ex for things like child support and welfare.

[mountain grammy]

22. So now will the recording clerks revolt?

Geeez, this is so stupid. What's wrong with these people?

[linuxman]

27. Good.