Are young peope anti-union?

[pstokely]

I doubt they are anti-union, they've never lived when unions were strong and have no clue about union benefits

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. I guess they aren't sure what they are for

we need to remind them.

[Bozita]

10. I'm sure the American History textbooks approved by the Texas School Bd will inform them.

How fucking sad!

[standingtall]

36. I dont believe young voters are anti-union at all. Atleast the ones I encounter.

It's the senior citizens, and middle age voters that have turned there back on the labor movement. The ones that unions have done so much good for them. And now that their getting towards the end of their lives. It's basically we got what we wanted, and screw the next generation. I don't mean to paint all seniors with a broad brush I now many seniors who to still support labor rights. My dad, and Grandmother are a couple of them, But the numbers Dont lie seniors overwhelmingly support Republicans and their anti worker agenda in every election cycle. Also there as been this spin over the last 30 years that sense there are laws to protect worker rights that union are no longer needed. We law change with law makers. And the lawmakers are now suppressing working rights, and protection. Just see Wisconsin,Indiana, and Ohio. This year alone we've seen a Republican candidate for president advocating for child labor, as well as the Governor of Maine. I think the only that might help the labor movement now is to lose everything, and letting the idiot voters surface through great misery, and maybe then they will see how stupid they were, and the labor movement can be reborn. And yes I know people who work in non union jobs that are jealous of union members for having better working,benefits, and wages then they do.


I d hate to break it to them it's not the unions fault they have better paying jobs then they do. It's theirs for they could've made efforts to organize there work places. Instead they were to cowardly to stand for their rights.Or they have been brainwashed by the Republicans, and the Christain right so called evangelist in worshiping the the extremely rich as their gods. The republicans, and the so called evangelist are pushing doctrines of devils, that Jesus, and the apostle never taught.

[ZombieHorde]

2. I don't know. They are becomming more pro-life.

They are removed by time from some of our big issues.

[pstokely]

4. they've also never lived in a coathanger era

nt

[ZombieHorde]

6. They just don't know. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

8. They have access to the internet. They *should* know. eom

[ZombieHorde]

25. I wish they knew how important safe and legal abortion is. nt

[Posteritatis]

55. Maybe "they" aren't a monolith. Just saying. (nt)

[BlueCaliDem]

59. Then maybe it's time they remember the United We Stand, Divided We Fall meme. Just saying. eom

[Posteritatis]

61. Well, that's an impressively inane response. (nt)

[BlueCaliDem]

63. Really?? Perhaps to you, but it makes perfect sense. It's anti-Divide & Conquer. eom

[sadbear]

3. Popular culture tells them that union workers are lazy thugs

who can't get fired. That's the message they've been fed their entire lives (even by the Simpsons.)

[sweetloukillbot]

5. There's jealousy as well...

I knew people during my brief tenure in Iowa who hated unions because they couldn't get jobs in the union shops and were doing the same work for 1/2 the pay.

[Blue_Tires]

34. or that unions are all mafia fronts

[BlueCaliDem]

60. Yep. Well funded propaganda by special interest billionaires works! eom

[SoutherDem]

7. I feel they are reaping the benefits from unions.

I have never belonged to a union because I have never worked for a union company.

The two main companies I have worked for based there benefits to keep unions out and we never asked for a union. But, that doesn't mean I don't thank unions for what I had. I understood the reason I had benefit packages and competitive wages for those industries was from the work of unions past.

Today, young people don't understand that. A friend of mine whose dad was a union man only remembers the union dues and strikes, not what those dues paid for or what he got from striking. He works for a German owned company which does not want union, so they pay fair wages and have good benefits packages. He feels unions are useless. He doesn't understand he is standing on the shoulders of giants.

[Major Nikon]

62. You just nailed the reason why most people benefit from unions

The threat of employees forming a union keeps many companies from screwing employees, so pay, benefits, and working conditions have to be competitive with unionized companies. Areas that have strong union participation enjoy better pay and benefits across the entire realm of workers. That's why unions are a tide that lifts all boats.

Everyone should be thankful for unions, whether you belong to one or not.

[Mr.Turnip]

9. Yes, many young people are quite liberal on many issues but they aren't all that into Unions.

And yes it has to do with a belief that Unions are "out of date" that the gains they made won't be taken back if they were to suddenly disappear.

[a kennedy]

11. and no clue as to how unions made the middle class the middle class.....

No idea what the blood and guts of the first unions did for the rest of us...... I'm just sick.

[tsuki]

33. Unions did not make the middle class the middle class.

Unions gave workers a living wage and the ability to buy homes, educate their children, save for their future. Unions gave workers things that had previously been reserved for the middle class. Workers then began to think they were the middle class. They are not. I worked for a living. I am a retired worker.

The youth of today feels that it is middle class. They have no connection to Unions because those are for workers.

When I point out to Son's friends that they are workers, they seem genuinely surprised.

[jberryhill]

12. Benefits like favoring seniority?

[hugo_from_TN]

13. Exactly. Unions can be anti-young.

[NNN0LHI]

32. If we don't use seniority what do you want to use?

Would you prefer that the employee who sucks the foreman's ass the best to be the one who moves up?

Don

[jberryhill]

48. I don't have a problem with it

And you obviously don't understand my reply.

A person without seniority does not favor a system which rewards seniority. That is a simple observable fact. The OP is directed to a question about young people.

If you look at unemployment by age, you find a remarkable skew against young people. Rightly or wrongly, they know that last hired is first fired.

It's an observation, not an opinion. Personally, I'm self employed, so it's irrelevant to my circumstances. If I were a young person, I would wonder where things like skill, efficiency, and productivity counted, if I felt I was not advancing as rapidly as I believed I should.

If the question is "why don't young people prefer a system which favors older people?" then the answer is staring you in the face.

[HiPointDem]

51. Only if you're looking at the wrong statistics.

[NNN0LHI]

56. "why don't young people prefer a system which favors older people?"

Because one of these days those young people will become older people.

Is that the obvious answer you were looking for?

Don

[jberryhill]

57. People don't think that way in general, though

It should be transparently obvious that young people prefer a system that favors young people. When they get older, they will prefer a system that favors old people.

[HiPointDem]

50. Everyone gets older; and everyone who stays with a company gets seniority. Your preference

would be....?

No seniority so people can be picked off at every stage of the game?

Great strategy for the working class.

[jberryhill]

52. Did I express a "preference" about anything?

The OP was about young people's perception of unions.

I'm a middle aged self employed person. Unions aren't relevant to me.

But, as noted below, from the perspective of a young person, rapid advancement based on some measure of merit is preferable to a system which rewards seniority.

Yes, everyone gets older. That is irrelevant to a young unemployed person who would absolutely prefer a system which favors young people. Believe it or not, people tend to look at things from the perspective which tends to favor them.

[HiPointDem]

53. "tend to" after they've been propagandized into it. In fact, people don't "naturally" think

they should start out running the show.

[Odin2005]

14. More apathetic and ignorant more than anything.

The concept of organizing never enters the heads of most of my generation. We were all born after St. Ronnie was elected and so we don't have any memories of strong unions.

Another problem is that most unions are fully assimilated into the establishment and have lost any connection to any radical roots they may have had, so many people see unions and corporations as equally bad. People equate unions with un-meritocratic seniority systems and other institutional biases against young workers.

[ManyShadesOf]

17. well you don't need "memories of strong unions"

when you have history and journalism, but those have been eliminated also. Which helps the propaganda that makes people "equate unions" with whatever they don't feel like supporting.

Solidarity. Duh.

[Blue_Tires]

35. +1

And working on a college campus I hear the "unions outlived their usefulness because workers have rights now" talking point, as well...

[ManyShadesOf]

15. no

they're narcissists

[unreadierLizard]

16. Woohoo! More sweeping attacks against the young!

Tell me how narcissistic I am.

Tell me how stupid I am! Come on!

I'll shoot right back that if you're an older white male you're a racist pig who must love the TEA PARTY! Aren't generalizations fun?

[ManyShadesOf]

18. is it a sweeping attack

if it's true? if the generation tells you as much about themselves? if it's obvious in the culture that they are immersed in, every day? if you walk down the street and some moron is about to walk into you, lookin at his damn phone? Let's be honest here. LOL

[unreadierLizard]

19. I don't see how the hell

this has anything to do with the recall election.

It's no wonder young people are so disheartened with politics, when the old farts of the party treat them like scum.

It's no wonder I'm losing faith in politics in general.

I came here as a progressive. I'm leaving as an independent.

[ManyShadesOf]

22. really

[xmas74]

28. Wait-one online forum has you changing from prog to indie?

I don't buy it. I'd be more likely to believe you thought you were a progressive then realized you were independent. You're losing your faith in politics either because of what you've discovered about your views or because you've come to learn that change doesn't happen quickly. Change can often take a full generation before it fully takes hold, which is longer than most want to invest.

And this comes from someone who isn't broadbrushing your generation.

[ManyShadesOf]

37. very true

"Change can often take a full generation before it fully takes hold, which is longer than most want to invest."

... and in that time, in this generation, the young are living in very anxious narcissistic times and they know it. It's tough for them. Bittersweet, change comes slowly, next generation is the hope and pays the price.

[Starry Messenger]

44. lulz.

[Odin2005]

21. Are you a Baby Boomer?

If so you have NO FUCKING RIGHT to call us narcissists!

[ManyShadesOf]

23. oh and i forgot

no sense of humor

yeah they say it about themselves. these are narcissistic times, aren't they? Not saying other people aren't. And a lot of young people care about Helping The World.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. It's two sweeping attacks, if you repeat it.

Let's be honest here. 'LOL'

[ManyShadesOf]

38. speaking of broadbrush

"Are young people anti union?"

Does anyone think that can be answered with a yes/no/one liner? Ridiculous. No "attack" was made.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. You did read the text of the OP, didn't you?

They went on to say they didn't think it's the case. So, no, "Are young people anti union?" wasn't broadbrush. Your oneliner "no they're narcissists" was, however. And it's an attack.

[ManyShadesOf]

43. you mean the other one-liner?

sorry if you were offended. it wasn't intended as an attack. it was an overgeneralization obviously. there's more to it, being discussed. and here's some good points. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002773006#post30

[Odin2005]

20. The HELL we are!!! What a staming pantload!

[Throd]

24. Will you please elaborate?

[ManyShadesOf]

41. Obviously, the OP is an overgeneralization?

as was my reply.

It's also something that can be observed in the times, behaviors that young ppl will tell you about themselves. Everyone's walking around in their lil bubbles these days. Afraid. Selfabsorbed.

JHB makes some good points here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002773006#post30

"I'm more concerned with older narcissists with enough money to indulge their narcissism by wrecking the world for everyone else.

"Most people (much less most younger people) don't have a concept of unions in their head, of what they do on a practical level. There's nothing they can mentally get a grip on, at least not positive ones. Thanks to a long, long anti-union messaging strategy and little to no investment in countering it, the most widespread view of unions revolves around their worst members."

[white_wolf]

26. More bullshit.

I get so sick of hearing this bullshit meme that my generation is lazy, narcissistic, apathetic, or whatever other smear you want to spread. It was the youth who helped jumpstart Occupy in a big way, but I guess that doesn't matter to you. Oh, and thanks for giving us Regan and both of the Bush presidents to deal with. After all, some of your generation voted for them so all of your generation must be right-wing assholes. See, how stupid broadbrush attacks are?

[ManyShadesOf]

39. oh relax

thank you for your service to our planet

[JHB]

30. If so, so what? Since when have younger people never been "narcissists" to some extent?

I'm more concerned with older narcissists with enough money to indulge their narcissism by wrecking the world for everyone else.


Most people (much less most younger people) don't have a concept of unions in their head, of what they do on a practical level. There's nothing they can mentally get a grip on, at least not positive ones. Thanks to a long, long anti-union messaging strategy and little to no investment in countering it, the most widespread view of unions revolves around their worst members.

At least with the younger ones, there's more of a chance that outreach can get to them and change that.

[ManyShadesOf]

40. good points

thanks for that. and yes, narcissists come in many forms. Well put.

[Luciferous]

29. My husband's union agreed to a five year pay freeze. Where's the benefit in that?

Honestly, I'm kind of fed up with his union, but I think it has more to do with their union president than the union itself.

[meaculpa2011]

31. My wife's union agreed to...

to support the mayor (liberal northeastern big city) in exchange for a 4% pay increase. He won reelection and reduced his "offer" to 2%. After another year of negotiations it became ZERO! It's been five years without a contract and the the unions still put their faith in politicians.

[Gold Metal Flake]

45. Union people are anti-union.

Deal with it.

[IndyPragmatist123]

46. I think young people are increasingly more anti-public sector union

I have no stats to back this up, this is just my personal experience. I graduated from college a few years back and I met many people that were completely against public sector unions. They were fine with private sector unions, but not public.

Additionally, I met many Democrats that fully supported unions, but were a little bit less enthusiastic towards public sector unions. They still supported them, but I constantly heard things like "they go too far."

I think the recession played a big part in this. Many public sector union pensions were protected from the market collapse. Young people with parents not in unions may have seen their IRAs and retirement plans drop in value quite a bit while the public sector retirement plans were not affected as much. So, it is probably a bit of bitterness. "Those people should suffer like the rest of us" is probably what they were thinking, or something like that.

[ManyShadesOf]

47. and many of all ages don't remember

that public sector employees pay into their benefits and retirement plans. Taking them away after the fact - and after retirement - is criminal.

[cynatnite]

49. It's possible they think the unions aren't necessary anymore. n/t

[dmr]

54. My son & his friends were ambivalent about unions until

they were in their jobs long enough to have complaints about the hours, on call status, lack of rest breaks, etc.

My future daughter-in-law can't really make plans because each day (including her days off) they have her on call for additional hours. She never knows when or if she'll be needed, but if she wants to work, she has to be sure to be available to them. She's applying for other jobs, & it's hard for an old timer like me to grasp the changes. For instance, for each job she applies, they want a drug test - AND, they expect her to pay for it! Some jobs just aren't worth that added expense, imo.

I hear all kinds of complaints from my son's friends, & I tell them this is why unions are important. Even if your business isn't unionized, you still benefit because unions create standards.

I dread the future for our youth, who will face increasing abuses & disrespect. Makes me sad.

(As an aside, my dad, a mild mannered soul, fought to an inch of his life for the unions back in the 30s. He was attacked from behind, beaten by Ford's goons and thrown down a wrought iron stairwell, presumably to die. Dad would weep if he saw how Americans are falling for the corporate bullshit of blaming the worker.)

[Egalitariat]

58. I don't think they have opinions on Unions. They're generally for themselves, and optimistic about

themselves.

Unions are more about being a part of a group.